cleaning mechanisms for the already put you to invest option to use the inverse. do you renewable technology, unclean technology from africa. i'm looking over the community and africa that the cheaper the cheapest option we should sell now. and that's what the world features . jaffar abdi dockman says, all he wants is a clean and a more reliable pass horse to run his business. catherine's sorry al jazeera or sabot, kenya. ah, the selves there, and these are the top stories that i talk of. it is back in immigration, detention after his visa was cancelled for a 2nd time. the 10 star will appeal the decision at a hearing on sunday. a day before the australian opened begins. sir clark has more from brisbin. there presented a 268 page document stating that he may fan or fuel anti backs nation sentiment at

here in australia, at the lawyers also not had that due to his high profile presence here. he may also encourage people not to comply or with the measures that are in place to try and deal with the pandemic and a number of daily number of cases here in australia. and he's potentially undermining of the pandemic strategies have been put in place by the federal and state governments. now joint ventures, lawyers are obviously rejecting this claim. they want to stop this deportation. and this is their last bid or last minute bid to try and stop him being removed from australia. more revelations of u. k. government parties during lockdown are emerging. the daily mirror and newspaper says weekly drinks gatherings took place. on wednesday, johnson apologized to parliament for attending what he called a work event at a time when social mixing was banned. the u. s. is accused russia of planning a so called false flag operation in easton ukraine. in an attempt to create an excuse for an invasion, russia says the claims are unfounded. russia security service says it's shut down

the ransomware crime group, known as our evil. it arrested several members of the group. it was behind the hacking of the largest oil pipeline in the u. s. last year. soon, army waves have hit the islands nation of toner after an underwater volcanic eruption follows a series of interruptions. it started on friday. the advisory has been issued for launch positive south pacific authorities, wanting people to stay away from coastal areas in the us capitol. new delhi is observing another weekend curfew to curve arising. number of coven 19 infections. all non essential activities have been put on hold. the country has been recording more than 250000 cases per day for the past week. but hospital admissions and deaths are lower than in previous waves. because the headlines and use continues here on al jazeera, one of the inside story. ah,

it is a mysterious illness that is affected us diplomats world wide, attacking the nervous system. and in some cases, forcing people into early retirement, it's called the havana syndrome. but what or who is behind it? this is inside story. ah hello and welcome to the program. i'm pete adobe. more than 5 years on, on the so called havana syndrome is back with us for american diplomats of fallen sick this week with suspected cases of the syndrome in paris and geneva. but you

are a secretary of state antony blinkin, says the federal government is working to identify the illness and who or what might be behind it. the mystery condition has affected about 200 diplomats and there family members since 2016. it's believed the ailment may be caused by what's called a directed energy attack. symptoms include me, grains, nausea, memory, loss, and dizziness. and it can be so bad. it's forced some victims into early retirement . we'll begin our discussion in a moment. first, let's take a closer look at how it all started. so it's called havana syndrome because the 1st cases were reported in 2016 by us diplomats in cuba. they started experiencing neurological symptoms mimicking what happens after a concussion, but they had suffered no head injuries since then. dozens more cases have been reported by us officials and their families based around the world, including in russia and in china. a number of canadian diplomatic stuff in cuba

were also effected. a ca team searching for a cause is focused on about $200.00 cases, which do remain unexplained in september the us president joe biden signed into law a bill to compensate the victims the. okay, there we are. here we go. let's bring in our guests in oakland and new zealand. we have robert bartholomew honory, senior lecturer in the department of psychological medicine at the university of oakland. he is also the co author of havana syndrome, mass fica, genic, illness, and the real story behind the embassy mystery. and hysteria and culture. so in ethics, in the u. k. we have natasha lind, stats, ortho, and specialist on u. s. foreign policy. she's social sciences deputy dean at the university of essex, and in boston, massachusetts. in the us we have glen, call a korea c. i a officer and formerly a deputy national intelligence officer. welcome to you all glen call in boston.

havana syndrome. what might it be? well, the immediate thought, i think of all of my colleagues and the institutions involved in foreign policy is that the, the russians are the most likely ones to have done this kind of activity . whether to obtain intelligence or to harass or both we don't know. and we don't know that it's the russians, but that's the, the reflexive thought there are probably only 4 countries or so that would have the capability or the interest in doing this sort of thing. assuming that what appears to be happening is happening. and that would be russia, china, around, or korea. but nobody knows. this is one of the big mysteries. natasha and stuff in culture. has there been anything like this in the past? not that i know of nothing like this where we have no idea what is really causing

this. i mean, there was some speculation that there were some sort of microwave attacks that it occurred to against americans in russia, in soviet union. but there's nothing like this where we don't really know what the diagnosis is. who is doing it, what it actually is. there's a lot more questions than answers, and that's what makes it so puzzling. and we don't even know if it is something real. so we're still looking for answers, but i had the view that this is something that is real because we seeing that some of the victims have still been dealing with some of the after effects that they're still experiencing nada, nausea and headaches. and there was enough people describing similar symptoms is something to take really seriously. robust me in oakland, in new zealand. i've counted so far here on the program. 7 uses of the word it. we

don't know what it is, robert is the time now here to call aids a covert sonic weapon. i think the evidence is overwhelming, that it is math, psychogenic, illness. and the problem with this whole episode is you've got politics being mixed with science, and all you need to know is recently in september of last year, the head of the bible ministration panel, looking into this. pamela scrathland would not rule out the possibility of mass like a genic illness, and she was forced to resign. and people were saying, we're not crazy. we're not suffering from a mental disorder. mass psychogenic illness does not mean you're crazy, or you're suffering from a mental disorder. they are real symptoms. this is a real condition that has been known for thousands of years. and the evidence is overwhelming. that what we're looking at here is mass psychogenic illness. but

rather all legit, it's just a for sure different 2nd row. but what you're saying when you talk about a mass psychogenic illness, psychogenic illness, a people think themselves into being really sick with the same symptoms because they're in the same data stream data group when it comes to be analyzed. but what we're talking about here is korea, diplomats, we're talking about people who are intelligent well traveled. there are well educated people that presumably mature and that they're in their forties, their fifties, they don't tear up when they're watching whole mark tv. you know, they don't tear up when they're watching a chick flick a good movie when they're watching something but put tugs at the, the heart strings. no one is immune to mass psycho genic illness because mass i could genic illness is based on a belief. think of it as the placebo effect in reverse. if i give you a sugar pill and tell you you're going to feel better off than you will, it's the power of framing. but if i give you a sugar pill and tell you you're going to feel better in someone rushes in and says,

oh my god, the sugar pill i just gave you, it's been contaminated with rat poison. there's a good chance that within a few minutes, you'll get headache, stomach pain, nausea, you might even bomb it, but there's nothing physically wrong with you. think of it as a software problem and overstimulation of the nervous system. but the reality, glen, call in boston, surely as this russia, the united states and china, you mentioned one or 2 others. they have all researched microwaves as weapons. and i don't mean they went to a supermarket. they bought a microwave and they threw it at somebody. i mean, they tried to come up with technology that used a microwave gun or a device or something that could point microwaves at an individual or at the building. yes, that's true, but at 1st i think i have to correct the the 1st error that i have ever heard l g 0 make, which is the ca,

officers don't cry at hallmark movies and i can contradict that. in fact, it does occur on occasion. but the to be more serious, the deputy chief emission american diplomat who was removed from believe her position for having raised the possibility of psychogenic illness that, that occur. yes. and i think that was an error to do, i think what may not be accepted or understood by the broad public and perhaps by my colleague in auckland, is that it is one of the possibilities that i am certain is being analyzed. if the people who reacted are the victims and would understand that if they feel checks, they would take umbrage at having been characterized as, as loony. which is how they would they would react to it. although that's not the

case of the in the diagnosis of. but, but i'm certain that the state department of the military, the government as a whole, is looking at all the possibilities. the 1st step that one takes. well, we don't 11 doesn't know what's going on in science, is you categorize because what more can one do? and i think we're, we are still stuck in that position of simply trying to gather facts to the. now we can establish that they are facts, no one knows, and i don't think any possibility should be or actually is being dismissed of, but the, i would very seriously doubt that $200.00 colleagues and disparate countries at different times would suffer from a collected delusion and my last comment for the moment is the working title of my book, which is about torture. in the ca, in the us government was victims of delusion. and i have seen people sincerely

believe events, actions to be one thing and to personally to have observed and to know that that is not the case. and yet my colleagues or intelligence is here. so i, i'm not dismissive of the potential of delusion. i really don't believe that that's likely in this and also quinn call just to flesh out what you've just said briefly it in but 30 seconds. statistically, we're talking about $200.00 people who have operated at the, in the upper echelons of the international diplomatic service. it is highly unlikely surely that they have character traits that link them and they are given to behaving in a way where they clearly lack emotional equilibrium. and they believe that they have a certain set of symptoms. so therefore they carry on displaying their symptoms even when they are ending up working part time or they have been retired from that job early. well, i think that's true. i think perhaps more. busy significant is that the,

the reports of the syndrome came really out of the blue from people who are not some inclined to conspiracy theory thinking or 2 dropping to conclusions. and they said, this is what i feel. and from there, there has been an investigation. and then as i understand it, independent of any reports of quote vanish syndrome having occurred that people reported this phenomenon separately and without knowledge of it having occurred elsewhere. so someone in paris felt the symptoms and said, hey i, my brain is not working right. and so on and of, and i'm suffering from x, y, and they were independent of each other. not, not a coffee. cat,

subliminal, lee influenced events or science, then natasha, in cold chest. do we need to subdivide the conversation that we're having here about the technology? one remembers a package, a report that we carried on this channel. i think it was 20162017 about the havana syndrome using microwaves slash sound delivered by some sort of sound canon device and the people we spoke to. i, i remember this clearly at the time they said it would have to be so big that you couldn't do it in secret because you've got to have literally speakers the size of a concert venue speakers on the back of a truck. and if you drive that up to a secure compounded type zone surrounding and embassy, every one would see you. and yet, on the other hand, the sound cannon technology is there, it is out there. and the london authorities this, this is a matter of fact, the london authorities had plans or a conversation to use it around about the lympics in 2012 for crowd control

purposes. so some of the technology is that we know about it. some of the technology is paid simply fanciful. no. well, i think that's one of the vicious we don't completely understand what technology is being used. and we can't rule out that it could be possible. it's a technology that we haven't discovered yet of whatever group is using this or entity or state is using this that there are so many unknowns about it. but one thing we do know the victims have reported hearing a sound aloud sound in their head before they started having problems. so that may be something connected to that, that needs to be better explored and that, that it's not just something in their head that, that was actually a common stream amongst the victims. and just to bring back the issue of russia. this is why i think at least my gut reaction upon hearing

about this was that this could involve the rush. i mean there's no evidence that it does. but this is sort of, one of their hallmarks is secretly using whether it be nerve agents or biological chemical weapons to really perforate. and that's how they use sharp power to perforate the enemy to undermine them. now using sort of conventional weapons, but to create havoc and disarray, so discontent and, and look at what the and outcome is. if we just look at the cube in case, you know, the cuban embassy used to have the u. s. in the cuban embassy in her eyes to have 54 diplomats there, now it's down to 10. and there was a real opening there are to improve relations between the u. s. in cuba. and this has dissipated so that the real outcome is the thing that we also need to investigate who is really benefiting from this in addition to also exploring what is the technology ok. robust phony will come back to that point in a 2nd. natasha if he may rober bartholomew in oakland. clearly you are

a skeptic. but arguably the father of havana syndrome was a thing called the moscow signal. you cannot explained from your stones why back to back consecutive us ambassadors in the sixty's into the seventy's and moscow died of cancer. the man who got the job in 1976 was diagnosed very quickly with a severe blood disorder. and then he later died of leukemia, but 3 us ambassadors who worked in the same building in the same city in the same country. all died of a form of cancer while people die of cancer. but here's the, here's my point that i want to make. and that is that you can just address my question, please. so back to back 3 us ambassador as to moscow die of a form of cancer. statistically, that is highly, highly unlikely. i don't know what that has to do with the van. a syndrome though,

in the way the u. s. government has treated this, for example, the f. b i report has been leaked and the f. b, i concluded that it was math psycho genic illness straight up not microwaves. in 2018, there was a secret jason report, a believe scientist who examined the possibility of microwaves. and they said it was virtually impossible. because if you go back and look at the context of what's going on here, the 1st 21 people who reported their symptoms, 8 of them, recorded the attacks when they happened. those recordings were analyzed by that government classified group, and they concluded that there were the meeting sounds of the indies, short tailed cricket. so the u. s. government kept those reports secret until recently the f b, i report still hasn't been released. the 4 year documents on the jason report

didn't come out until september of this past year. so the u. s. government needs to be more open and frank about what they are doing. and the other point that's important is i've been told that i'll be 200 people globally that have been affected about a 100 of them or intelligence officers. and people say, well, how can you explain that? i can explain that from a psychological standpoint. because the 1st people who reported symptoms in cuba or intelligence officers, and then the u. s. government, the state department of the department of defense has issued alerts around the world for people to be on the lookout for anomalous health incidence. and that intelligence officers may be the targets, so it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. ok, natasha. do we have to accept that? there is clearly a political glaze on top of this debate and it's this president some prime

minister's from or in the affected countries need to adjudicate on what is possibly a killer condition that doesn't kill for months or years, it's loaded, disables, and then it kills people but the reality is that presidents from prime ministers don't want to do to kate because then they have to accept the idea of culpability. that's why certain diplomats are actually suing their employee. the government of the country where they come from. brightness, what is what makes it so complicated because if we admit that there is really something there and then that puts a lot of liability on the governments to take care of their employees to ensure that particular diplomats or representatives of the state are safe or intelligence officers are safe and so it puts government in a very precarious situation. now we already mentioned the new bill to try to offer better support for people who have been victim of some sort of traumatic brain

injury. and they're really careful about the wording that they're using here. they don't also want to pinpoint blame on the wrong country. so you see that representatives of the u. s. government, for example, been very, very cautious and careful with the way they talk about this. but i think that they're trying to explore options because in one scenario, if it's nothing, if it's something that is more psychosomatic and that's one thing, but i, i really believe it's more likely that it is another country involved. and then that requires further investigation and pressure to understand who is capable and responsible for this glen column. boston. clearly the people directly affected by this, whether it's real imagined, whether they've thought themselves into it, or whether it is actually somebody someplace pulling the strings. it doesn't really matter to they need to have formal recognition that they have got something oh, i think well in president biden and the administration, the state department,

the national security self have moved to, to recognize this and to, to take the seriously. so that's a simple answer yesterday that should occur and it is occurring. if i can go back to a point you made before. of course we all know that correlation is not necessarily causation. however, we do know multiple instances and multiple different ways that the russians specifically have done all sorts of things. that 2 specific most, mostly intelligence and voters officers that have caused harm. they have used radioactive powders that are visible, they have used to different kinds of waves. i don't know the specific details of the 3 ambassadors but, but i do know that the russians have used radioactive materials against some of them call you said vine. i know and have worked with personally and closely to harass at the least to harass so it's not a

a stretch to think that the likely perpetrator or the russians. now the 2nd point i'd like to make of brief is i think our colleague in in auckland perhaps is misconstruing the process that the, the government would, would go through by focusing on the dead ends. that one will encounter in an investigation. and i don't think that things have been suppressed really at all. one wouldn't want a report that has been found to be not conclusive or leading the investigation astray or, or so on to be taken as to frame the perception of the overall investigation. when the conclusion so far is that we don't have one, i'm going to interrupt you because we are rapidly approaching into the program. let's go back to rob about so let me in oakland, robert,

some of the people directly affected by this have not been near cuba, the island, the country, havana, the capital city, or the u. s. embassy. they didn't sleep near a colony of crickets on the other side of an open window. some of the canadians that have been directly affected by something, have been transported from ottawa to halifax, nova scotia. they had been medically tested and it's being found that the left hand side of their brain does not connect properly with the right hand side of their brain. that's a matter of medical fact. on top of that, some of the canadians know you're shaking your head. hang on, let me finish. some of the canadians are displaying the early symptoms of parkinson's out signers or general dementia. again, i've used the word to 3 times in this discussion. statistically, that is highly unlikely, and they had no conversation with the americans who were affected by this. well, that's just not true. the canadians and the americans knew what was going on because

the americans were sharing data of the individual people to each other. there wasn't some sort of his theory, a transfer done a skype line from an american diplomat to a canadian diplomat. that's exactly what was going on. it spread like wildfire, the diplomat in the american embassy that we talked to said that everybody knew it spread like wildfire throughout the embassies. and then they were told don't sleep near or stand near windows and things like this, which really hyped up the anxiety. and i also want to address the point about why not release the f b? i document because it might misconstrue things. well, why was the cdc document released? why was the national academy of sciences document release when those documents were also inconclusive? natasha very last word to you in the next 30 seconds of the program. if this is a weapon, it is an amazing weapon and i use the word amazing. advisedly. the next iteration

of this weapon, what might it be capable of doing? i think that's the scary thing is the unknown and it might be capable of being on leash on a larger population. and that would really disable a big portion of, of the public if they're able to, to, to leash it on a much greater part of the population. and i think that's one of the unknowns that makes this so incredibly scary because we have people retiring from their jobs that they were really passionate about because they've been so disabled by this mysterious syndrome. ok, we must leave it there. thank you to, i guess they were robert bartholomew, natasha and stuff, and glen call and thank you to for watching. you can see the show again. anytime bureau website out 0 dot com and for more discussion goes, well facebook page, that's facebook dot com forward slash ha inside story. you can also join the conversation on twitter or handle it at k j inside store. for me, pizza, adobe,

and everyone on the team here. thanks for watching. i will see you very soon usual time tomorrow. bye bye. ah. you have to choose between your site and feeding your family? what do you do? yeah, i mean what happened was because we don't keep ourselves healthy when your son could face death from a dog bio. what do you do? every year you kind of constantly index way. can you afford them? usual films about inspiring solutions to global health challenges. ages select on

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