and a region people continue to leave behind in search of opportunities. we spoke to the company waiting for approval from the environmental agency. our plans will have 0 impact on the last styles or practices of farmers in the region. i think, you know, millions of european town and city dwellers are really trying to appreciate the, you know, the transformation. but electric mobility will like to the quality of life in the cities of europe. government officials point out environmental and strategic benefit of mining, lithium in europe. and if our objective is to be f, the final my we can then i good way to start using those materials which are not source properly outside of europe. and then you have has the opportunity to do it in a sustainable way. my dea, low data isn't convinced she and fernandez show us where mining samples were excavated. laredo says, shall lose some of her land to the mine and that what remains will be contaminated

in some not, we're not the ones polluting the environment lead, the ones polluting, pay the bill, not us. a sentiment shared by many who fear they'll pay the price for europe's green energy. adarine al jazeera and northern portugal. ah, i know you're watching out the are these, the stories were following this out on the 24th winter olympics has officially begun. aging is the 1st city to host both the summer and winter olympics. but the build up has been dominated by over 19 restrictions and diplomatic boy fonts. and as the games have been happening, tensions over ukraine high between russia and the west, russian president vladimir putin easy in china, moscow. and by doing so, they oppose nato expansion and accuse it of cold war approaches. the european union has blacklisted molly's transitional prime minister and members

of interim president, assuming coit is in a circle, it's in response to the military joint. his decision to delay elections until 2025 south africa's used madonna's code 19 m r n. a vaccine to make its own version of the job without madonna's help. it's the 1st of it's kind of lab is scale of the african continent. the aim is to tackle global vaccine and inequality. wesley team say they're close to saving a 5 year old boy who fell into a $32.00 made a day. well in morocco, he's alive, pitches from the same. he had been trapped in there for 3 days. teams have been working french frantically to reach him. those are the headlines. i'm emily anglin, stating now inside story, and i'll be back at the top of the hour. ah,

the leader of i sal is killed in a u. s. operation in syria. president joe biden called it a major blow to global terrorism. but how much of a threat does i so pose. now, this is inside story. ah hello and welcome to the program. i'm how much of jerome the us says it has eliminated one of the biggest terrorist threats to the world. the leader of ice will blew himself up as us special forces surrounded his compound in italy, province in syria, not much is known about a boy,

but our human hash in me look what a she but he's believe to have directed a 10 day prison siege in ne syria last month, that was one of the biggest ice will attack, since the group was declared defeated in 2019. our white house correspondent kimberly hallett has more. this horrible terrorist leader is no more in an address to the nation. the roosevelt room of the white house us president joe biden spoke about the operation. he ordered the killed the ice, a leader abu ibrahim l, how she me, l. karachi. and i directed the department of defense to take every precaution possible to minimize civilian casualties. knowing that this terraces chose us rom, sofas, families, including children. we made a choice to pursue a special forces raid at a much greater risk than our to our own people, rather than targeting him with an air strike. as us special forces moved in the ice,

a leader reportedly detonated an explosive and a final act of desperate cowardice. he chose to blow himself off, taking several members of his family with him. the mission happened thursday in north western syria in it live province. residence on the ground said at least 13 people, including children, were killed in the operation. the pentagon said there were no true casualties. the president widened his vice president and national security advisors over saw the mission from the situation room of the white house. it was the biggest us rated, syria says the 2019 operation that killed the ice. a leader abu bakar albert daddy . this operation was literally months. in the planning, the u. s. targeted the ice a leader for threats he allegedly posed to us interests and crimes committed in iraq in 2014, including the enslavement of his edi women. the raid comes

a week after the defense secretary ordered the u. s. military to do more to protect civilians in combat operations often largely forgotten in the west posterior and maybe the only it's of a lining of this is it has brought back media's attention to the conflict and syria seems from their perspective that no one really cares. so a one advantage in a sense is that this is now go to your back into, into the news. despite efforts to limit casualties. some members of congress are now calling for an investigation into the civilian deaths to ensure that every reasonable step was taken to protect innocent lives. kimberly health et al jazeera, the white house ah. all right, listening and our guests from washington, d. c, y l a z at ceo of m gauge foundation. he was

a senior policy advisor on syria for the former us ambassador to the un, samantha power, and a syria outreach coordinator for the u. s. department of state from doha. my one couple on head of policy analysis at the arab center for research and policy studies and from pittsburgh, collin clark, senior research fellow at the so font center and author of after the caliph atheist, la mac state, and the future terrorist diaspora. a warm welcome to you all, and thanks so much for joining us today on inside story call. and let me start with you to that you wrote a piece for the los angeles times, which you said, although another islamic state leader has been killed, the organization will endure in iraq and syria as long as the u. s. and his allies continue to substitute targeted killings for a more comprehensive counter terrorism strategy. what would that strategy look like? oh, it's the same old talking points and issues that we hear all the time. it's investing in things like good governance and anti corruption. the so called soft side of

counter terrorism instead of strictly focusing on kinetic operations and, and taking out the head of these groups. it's a generational struggle. but when you go to capitol hill and you say, you know, my strategy costs a lot of money is going to take a really long time and there's no guarantee of success. you're shown the door pretty quickly, you know, and, and so that's why there's an over reliance in my opinion on i value targeting my one. let me ask you how much of a setback is quite a she's death for iso and is i saw the sort of threat now that it was just a few years ago when it's in the district back. but as you guess from the cellphone group has just mentioned, i said has always been able to guess when, when be with one, be there for for another. and this can go and go on forever. unless you adopt some sort of a comprehensive approach to solving the problem of ice, the u. s. has some how to get in both nation victim. you can't just bought

a like this because just 2 years ago i said has lost it. so i stick lita, i will buckled about daddy and yes, that date last another leader. and i believe i said would be able to have this him bitchy soon on. this is something that i believe and he is spelled as a sit, i mean mark my involvement by the united states nation thing and that would entail . and not only in a good governance. indeed, it says it's important, but also to deal with the grievances of the people in this spot. the what was there not is this has contributed in some way or another. don't forget after or that i said was that is an invasion of iraq and that is much of the iraqi state. so we have a vacuum life now in somehow in the region and in iraq, i'm and many other, this is number that he's and what it where, what about there is a vacuum? i said would be able to replace for some other form of how the groups would be able

to at door to fill that vacuum. so i think we need to have a comprehensive study to didn't day rather than keep actually going after and lead those of i still one after another. well, you know, you as president joe biden took a lot of criticism for the u. s. his withdrawal from afghanistan and many said that the way that that was handled was a sign that the u. s. as far as it was perceived globally, that it was really weakening. um, so i guess his administration would really see this as a way to send a message that the u. s. is still strong and reliable. when it comes to counterterrorism, do you think that's correct. thank you for having me and to some degree that is correct. it is a signal to not only to terrorist organizations, but also the international community, but that can only go so far. and i do agree with the gentleman before me. really, you know, i joined, engaged 5 years ago because we want to educate voters about the importance of human

rights at home here in the united states and abroad. so what does that mean? it means that in places like syria, where you have the regime of law and the family of assad, ruling one country for 40 years have given and have invested really in the root causes of a situation that led to the production of a tourist organizations such as isis, and as long as those food causes of poor governance, gross human rights violations, and rampant corruption are really not addressed. and by the way, this is not only for the united states defect. in fact, it mainly it is not. it is for the series of people and the regional countries to really tackle it. but the united states does happen to be a superpower. it is in syria today. and i think it has an opportunity to invest in true support for people who are outside of government control as well as put the

pressures with its allies on the regime to either reform or really step aside because we're going to keep repeating the cycle. and we're going to be dealing and talking about isis to, why know, $0.04 and the people on the ground will pay the heaviest price calling, you know, a few minutes ago, matawan said that he believed that there could be a replacement for what a she is, leader of i saw relatively soon. do you agree with that assessment? and also how might could a she's death affect isolate global operations. and well, we don't know how long it will take and you know, the judging behind the scenes that's likely taking place right now. which is really interesting to, to think about and talk about. i mean, i've already been talking to other terrorism scholars this morning about the whole process and what's likely to happen next in terms of global impact. that's another largely unknown because it's still hard to verify exactly how much operation was communicating on a regular basis. what the isis command and control structure looked like with the

regional branches, affiliates, and franchise groups worldwide. suffice to say, we know from history, when the core we're central group, is unable to communicate with the branches for long periods of time. those, those branches tend to focus on local issues, not global issues. that was one of the big issues with al qaeda and iraq. you'll remember with, with r kelly the jordanian military. so there's a lot to keep an eye on in the next 3 to 6 months. there could be some real change that had for the islamic state. my one from your vantage point, are there particular regional branches of ice all or affiliates that would be more impacted by the death of creation? yeah, brody, celia and iraq and don't forget that. i said household was being key and when having it on and he ought to you for from, from the iraq. mainly it's, i think there might be have spoken him back. but look, i said in terms of

a territory has been really defeated. so we are not looking here into something like a very strict hierarchical organization right now. it's father lose one. and when we can see actually branches of ice almost in as, as the, was safe and kept the southern countries now. and it is very difficult to think of it as being controlled by one at top leadership located or actually acting from either out of c, d i and the r e c. i c branches now in 90 chad in nature and in many other african countries, asian countries as well. so i think this is a loose network right now, and they are mainly local fighters and they are affiliating themselves somehow with ice because ice, it has a separate reputation. and so i did, this is why i'm a little bit of a careful here about the impact of,

of the elimination of the isolated each other on the up on the other branches in different countries. while in january, there was this attempt, a rather brazen attempt by i sold 2 brake thousands of followers out of a prison and half ago in ne syria. this was a coordinated attack that lasted as far as i know for days. how much concerned did that cause for the u. s. the. the fact that ice will was able to do this, you know, when it was just a couple of years ago that, that, that i school was declared defeated. well, you know, that was a concern. oh, as far as back when, when i was working on the portfolio in the u. s. government in 2017, as i says on its way to being fully defeated, we warn and even outside of government that the ideology as well as the die hard, you know, supporters of these ideology. we're still in that just your region in the border

region between iraq and syria and northern syria. and also remember the grievances that the leveraged to enlist support from the local population. this is a really important point that you saw in am ar province. during the 1st insurgency in iraq, you are able to leverage, you know, in some ways, look legitimate grievances, whether it's a side of the regime, russia, or even the united states and their support for their s d, f and the excesses of the student democratic forces in places like hasn't been so um it raised a lot of concerns. the group is not fully eliminated. it retains the ability to conduct these kind of stripes. and also one thing to mention, there are thousands of former ices fighters and or their families, including minors. children who are now still in detention after 3 years across detention facilities in the north east, under the guard of u. s. back forces, the s d f. and you know, one of the horrible situations of this research present rate is hundreds of boys

apparently were in that jail. and we believe many have been killed. and so that itself feeds into a new narrative. a grievance is on the part, not only of ice is diehards but local populations and that that could feed new recruits into the future. so i think it's really a concern and a requires a holistic approach to the immediate security situation. but as well as the underlying problems it collin, this strategy that we see enacted by the u. s. these decapitation strikes where whether it's an air raid or, or a ground operation in which the leader of ice or, or other groups are taken out. and then they're able to, you know, reconstitute me how much impact really do they have on a group like iso. i mean, does this just become a cycle whereby, you know, the leader is killed or, or dies and then somebody else takes their place and then the whole cycle starts over again or less. i mean, that's what we've been doing. i mean,

you can use whatever cliche you want a whack a mole, or as the israelis call it mowing the lawn a bit crude when you think about what, what, what we're doing but an accurate nonetheless. and i think, you know, that the only thing i'd say is that not all leaders are created equal. and so you will have leaders that are more charismatic or better at recruiting and propaganda than others. some that are, you know, better strategists, but absolutely the machinery of these organizations to le justice logistics networks, the financing, the propaganda, all of these things have been built over time. and they're extremely difficult if not impossible, to dismantle. particularly if you're just talking about removing leaders, you also have the issue of intel gain loss, which is the devil you know, versus the belly. you don't, the more you remove leaders, you know, the less intelligence you have on who's coming up the pipe next. and those leaders

that ultimately come up the, you know, the leadership pipeline may actually be more radical than those that they supplanted. so that's a concern to my one. i just want to try to take a step back for a moment and look at the bigger picture here, especially in the region. i me, one of the things that this raid has done is it has refocused attention on syria. and so i just want to ask you, what is the overall situation there right now? what i think am there is some kind of a good luck and city right now, because as you know out, of course i'm in the major i and, but it has actually ceased. well, and we don't have, we don't have major confrontations like not in syria, but we don't have a bit to process as well. so now full of lions are more or less and fixed over the past 2 years should he says that that agreement at the so j human between president of the ban of the again, been booked and all of a shot, especially in it live witnesses that either i said was eliminated

a couple of days ago so that the situation like now is that a country is, in fact am i, you can describe the host picture as is, is getting dismantled by the hour. why? because we have a very difficult osh economic conditions. and we have several of these is super places that we have that the situation of the people who actually are under, under the gym or under opposition, is due to the waiting by, by the day you can actually see how people are affected by the harsh winter these days without having actually enough of a pool supplies and other basic needs. so i think the situation is really is really dire. and this is where i think are they like is this is important. they like is this right now? this is what not me talking. i was there are 4 to 4 and for some time now,

now this is mainly consider right now about actually supplying, get a system. he made 1000000000 eat the city and people and that he may, i think i saw, i saw at the very narrow vision i believe in dealing with the cdn conflict is actually putting cost in this vicious shameka at because then i want to add it to responsibility somehow or to think of the burden from his child does my saying when i got to she had been the senior by providing them with on the other hand we are, we are actually after i said, i'm not planning to weaken it. but other than that done, because i'm not doing what they need to do, which is the political process, that is the issue here. that is the thing that we need to look at. because as long as this conflict gone both on and as long as the situation is literally waiting of the people, we will have more be we're actually joining i. so there would be that, that, that equipment. i say it would be,

it would be easier because the great guess is we have to think about that very difficult condition. because look, i said matawan rely, i'm not gonna do it one, i'm sorry, i'm and one, i'm sorry to interrupt you. we're, we're just starting to run out of time. well, i, i want to ask you about, well, from your purse there in washington, d. c. i mean, do you see this playing out advantageous, lee for president biden? you know, former president obama. he ordered the re, the killed us, our been lawton, a former president, trump ordered the rate in which i will butchered by the bad he died. does this help biden? does it help him domestically in the u. s. and does it help the way he's perceived internationally? look at, it's not going to hurt him and it will likely help him in the short term. but right now the american population in general, may most don't know who for a she is really. and they are focused on the inflation situation in the united states, the high prices for consumer good. and so as we get closer to the midterm election,

i think this operation will receive into the memory of the american population. and i don't think there will be a big impact for emulate orally. however, i think from a prestige from, you know, within the foreign policy circles, people who track these are, you know, these issues. yes. but again, even within those circles, with a here in a broad people always be asking the question, what is the united states doing strategically to alleviate the situation in syria, to stabilize the situation and syria and to hell. and by the way, again, not only the united states to do but with its allies and the region to address the root cause of this conflict. and i would say that even though there is now a defacto, some ice table situation in syria, there is a deadlock. as it was just mentioned, there are some factors, any change it right now. we'll see what happens with the ukraine and russia situation. second, the negotiations with iran over at

d rania over its nuclear deal. 3rd, the deteriorating economic situation in syria and iraq, which can have for the regimes effort to hold onto the area that controls already. and for the midterm elections, obviously, what happens here? electricity with united states because clearly we're not staying there forever. so it's just a matter of time. and what is going to drive the administration to make that decision a call. and i saw you nodding along to some of what it was saying there. did you want to jump in? i just think we don't have a serious strategy. and we'll bite in, you know, get a boost from, from, you know, this to capitation strike yet temporarily, but he's got to do it again and again and again. and if he actually wants to make any progress, it's gotta be connected to some broader strategy, which we just lack. we're pretty rudderless in terms of foreign policy. and we have little little leverage in syria and i've canister so, you know, look at the major players in syria, iran, russia,

united states is one of several parties. and it's clear that you know, the turks are and others that you know, there is no clear and coherent game plan or blueprint for how to operate in the middle east. the u. s. is desperate to get out of the middle east and quote unquote, pivot to asia, but keeps getting track back in. and again, without a kind of broader grand strategy or even a regional strategy, we're going to end up in the same situation. matawan, we only have a couple of minutes left. let me just ask you, you know, i saw the previous leader butler by the daddy. he was much more well known than quite a she, he was considered more charismatic. he was a, you know, analyst say he was able to recruit more people and inspire more people. the fact that it was a she was less visible that he had a lower profile that, that make it more difficult for isolate, to spread its propaganda and inspire recruits. i'm not sure about that or

a actually make mention as long as we have the conditions that isn't being high sifted people, we're going to have actually more more people joining. i said, unless you, with the conditions that are using the sort of a condition that we are, we are dealing with right now. and both countries, actually there are so many dvds is located against is and in, back to certain people actually to join join us. and of course, i mean about that was much more that was my thing because as you know that he's in for that he and he defeated the army in most that i need to know why he was more like empty when should lead to high. so like i said, this is not the leadership wise, it's more about the conditions that are producing time and again. all right, well we have run out of time, so we're going to have to leave the discussion there. thanks so much. all of our

guess was a at one column and column clark. and thank you for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website, algebra dot com. and for further discussion, go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha, inside story. you can also join the conversation on twitter. handle is at ha, inside story for me. how much improvement a whole team here, bye for now. ah international politics to the global pandemic. and everything in between. join me

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