the yacht for being largest in the world and with half a $1000000000.00 or the crew of a so called super trawler being accused of dumping $100000.00 dead fish into the atlantic ocean. the french maritime minister is demanding an investigation, and images of the blue whiting carpeting the secret shocking representatives of the marketplace. the world's 2nd largest fishing vessel. up lemming. a broken net for the spill. the sea shepherd, environmental group doubts though it was an accident. ah, the are, these are your headlines. the key summit of african leaders is underway in ethiopia . the $55.00 in african unions under pressure to come up with a coordinated response to a spite of military coups conflict. and for the fallout from the pandemic it yup. is prime minister abbey, i had used his opening remarks to also address the conflict in the tig region. our commitment to pursuing,

lusting and global peace in our country shall remain. steadfast excellence is less than gentlemen the greatest live and that if your be has learned or the past year is that we those the thought of that if you are african brothers and sisters, our existence or the nation would have been at great risk ever headlines. iran has responded to the u. s. waiving some sanctions on its civilian nuclear program as talks to revive the 2015 agreement deal reached a critical stage. the run and say they have a legal right to continue their research into a peaceful nuclear capabilities which can't be restricted by any agreement. donald trump ended the waiver 2 years ago when he was president's corona virus infections linked to the beijing olympic games have doubled within 24 hours to 45 new cases. organizers say though they are unconcerned by the increase in that they have everything under control. strict rules are being enforced,

including davie testing for the $3000.00 athletes who, being isolated from the broader public, the latest ballistic missile tests by north korea being condemned by more than half the members of the un security council. britain, france, and the u. s. are among 8 countries describing the test launches as a significant escalation. china meanwhile, is urging the white house to show some more flexibility if it wants to break through. rescue work is in morocco continue to work around the clock to save a 5 year old boy. they are digging out part of a hill side. as you see in these live pictures, in fact, a delicate operation to reach the child's. i. his name is dry on 5 years old has been trapped at the bottom of a 32 meter. well, for the past 5 days. okay, inside stories coming up next on al jazeera, elizabeth will take you through the next few hours of news after that. and i'll see you again tomorrow from 10100, as jim t ah,

the leader of iso is killed in a u. s. operation in syria. president joe biden called it a major blow to global terrorism. but how much of a threat does i so pose. now, this is inside story. ah hello and welcome to the program. i'm how much am june? the u. s. says it has eliminated one of the biggest terrorist threats to the world . the leader of ice will blew himself up as us special forces surrounded his comp out and it lip province in syria. not much is known about abbot our human

a hash in me look what a she but he's believe to have directed a 10 day prison siege. in ne syria last month. that was one of the biggest isolate tax since the group was declared defeated in 2019 our white house correspondent kimberly hawk. it has more this horrible terrorist leader is no more in an address to the nation from the roosevelt room of the white house, u. s. president joe biden spoke about the operation he ordered that killed the ice . a leader abu ibrahim al, has she, me, al, karachi, and i directed the department of defense to take every precaution possible to minimize civilian casualties. knowing that this terraces chose us rom, sofas, families, including children, we made a choice to pursue a special forces raid at a much greater risk than our to our own people, rather than targeting him with an air strike as us special forces moved in the ice,

a leader reportedly detonated an explosive and a final act of desperate cowardice. he chose to blow himself off, taking several members of his family with him. the mission happened thursday in north western syria in it live province. residence on the ground said at least 13 people, including children, were killed in the operation. the pentagon said there were no true casualties. the president widened his vice president and national security advisors over saw the mission from the situation room of the white house. it was the biggest us rated syria, says the 2019 operation that killed the ice, a leader abu bach, her album, dottie, this operation was literally months. in the planning, the u. s. targeted the ice, a leader for threats he allegedly posed to us interests and crimes committed in iraq in 2014, including the enslavement of his edi women. the raid comes

a week after the defense secretary ordered the u. s. military to do more to protect civilians in combat operations often largely forgotten in the west posterior and maybe the only it's of a lining of this is it has brought back media's attention to the conflict and syria seems from their perspective that no one really cares. so a one advantage in a sense is that this is now go to your back into, into the news. despite efforts to limit casualties. some members of congress are now calling for an investigation into the civilian deaths to ensure that every reasonable step was taken to protect innocent lives. kimberly help get al jazeera, the white house. ah. all right, listening and our guests from washington, d. c, y l a z at ceo of m gauge foundation. he was

a senior policy advisor on syria for the former us ambassador to the un, samantha power, and a syria outreach coordinator for the u. s. department of state from doha. my one couple on head of policy analysis at the arab center for research and policy studies. and from pittsburgh, collin clark, senior research fellow at the so fond center and author of after the caliphate, the islamic state and the future terrorist diaspora. a warm welcome to you all, and thanks so much for joining us today on inside story call. and let me start with you today. you wrote a piece for the los angeles times, which you said, although another islamic state leader has been killed, the organization will endure in iraq and syria as long as the u. s. and his allies continued to substitute targeted killings for a more comprehensive counter terrorism strategy. what would that strategy look like? oh, it's the same old talking points and issues that we hear all the time. it's investing in things like good governance and anti corruption. the so called soft side of

counter terrorism. instead of strictly focusing on kinetic operations and, and taking out the head of these groups, it's a generational struggle. but when you go to capitol hill and you say, you know, my strategy costs a lot of money is going to take a really long time. and there's no guarantee of success, you're shown the door pretty quickly, you know, and, and so that's why there are over reliance in my opinion on i value targeting my one . let me ask you how much of a setback is quite a she's death for iso and is i saw the sort of threat now that it was just a few years ago when it's in the district back. but as you guess from the silvan group has just mentioned, i said has always been able to guess when, when be with one veto or another. and this can go and go on forever. unless you adopt some sort of a comprehensive approach to solving the problem of ice, the u. s. has somehow to get in both nation building. you can't just bought

a like this because just 2 years ago i said has lost it. so i stick lita, i will buckle about daddy and guess that dad lost another leader and i believe i said would be able to have this him bitchy soon as this is something that i believe and he is spelled as i said, i mean mark my involvement by the united states nation thing and that would entail and not only have a good governance indeed it's, it's, it's important, but also to deal with the grievances of the people in this spot. the what was there not is this has contributed in some way or another. don't forget after or that i said was that is an invasion of iraq and that is much of the iraqi state. so we have a vacuum life now in somehow in the region and in iraq, i'm and many other, this is a number that he's and what it, where, what about there is a vacuum? i said would be able to replace for some other form of how the groups would be able

to at door to fill that vacuum. so i think we need to have a comprehensive study. it didn't the rather than keep actually going after a li, those of i still one after another. well, you know, us, president joe biden took a lot of criticism for the u. s. his withdrawal from afghanistan and many said that the way that that was handled was a sign that the u. s. as far as it was perceived globally, that it was really weakening. um, so i guess his administration would really see this as a way to send a message that the u. s. is still strong and reliable. when it comes to counterterrorism, do you think that's correct. thank you for having me and to some degree that is correct. it is a signal to not only to terrorist organizations, but also the international community, but that can only go so far. and i do agree with the gentleman before me. really, you know, i joined, engaged 5 years ago because we want to educate voters about the importance of human

rights at home here in the united states and abroad. so what does that mean? it means that in places like syria, where you have the regime of law and the family of assad, ruling one country for 40 years have given and have invested really in the root causes of a situation that led to the production of a tourist organizations such as isis, and as long as those food causes of poor governance, gross human rights violations, and rampant corruption are really not addressed. and by the way, this is not only for the united states to fix. in fact, it mainly it is not. it is for the syrian people and the regional countries to really tackle it. but the united states does happen to be a superpower. it is in syria today. and i think it has an opportunity to invest in true support for people who are outside of government control as well as put the pressures with its allies on the regime to either reform or really step aside

because we're going to keep repeating the cycle. and we're going to be dealing and talking about isis to, why know, $0.04 and the people on the ground will pay the heaviest price calling, you know, a few minutes ago, matawan said that he believed that there could be a replacement for what a she is, leader of i saw relatively soon. do you agree with that assessment? and also how might could a she's death affect isolate global operations. and well, we don't know how long it will take and you know, the judging behind the scenes that's likely taking place right now. which is really interesting to, to think about and talk about. i mean, i've already been talking to other terrorism scholars this morning about the whole process and what's likely to happen next in terms of global impact. that's another largely unknown because it's still hard to verify exactly how much operation was communicating on a regular basis. what the ice is,

command and control structure look like. with the regional branches, affiliates, and franchise groups worldwide. suffice to say, we know from history when the core we're central group, is unable to communicate with the branches for long periods of time. those, those branches tend to focus on local issues, not global issues. that was one of the big issues with alcott in iraq. you'll remember with, with r kelly the jordanian militant, so there's a lot to keep an eye on in the next 3 to 6 months. there could be some real change that had for the islamic state. my one from your vantage point. are there particular regional branches of ice all or affiliates that would be more impacted by the death of corporation? yeah, probably is celia and iraq. and don't forget that i said hassle was being key and when having it on and he ought to you for from, from iraq. mainly it's, i think it might be, have shifted him back. but like i said, in terms of

a territory has been really defeated. so we are not looking here into something like a base, the hierarchical organization right now, it's rather loose one. and when we can see actually branches of ice almost in as, as the, was safe and kept the southern countries now. and it is very difficult to think of it as being controlled by one at top leadership located or actually acting from either out of c, d i and the r e c i. the branch is now in 90 chad in nature and in many other african countries, asian countries as well. so i think this is a loose network right now, and they are mainly local fighters and they are affiliating themselves somehow with ice because ice, it has a separate repetition. and so i did. this is why i'm a little bit of a careful here about the impact of,

of the elimination of the isolated each other on the, on the other branches in different countries. while in january, there was this attempt, a rather brazen attempt by i sold 2 brake thousands of followers out of a prison and half ago in ne syria. this was a coordinated attack that lasted as far as i know for days. how much concerned did that cause for the u. s. the. the fact that ice will was able to do this, you know, when it was just a couple of years ago that, that, that i saw was declared defeated. well, you know, that was a concern. oh, as far as back when, when i was working on the portfolio in the u. s. government in 2017, as i says on its way to being fully defeated, we warn and even outside of government that the ideology as well as the die hard, you know, supporters of these ideology, we're still in that region in the border region between iraq and syria and northern

syria, and also remember the grievances that the leveraged to enlist support from the local population. this is a really important point that you saw in am ar province. during the 1st insurgency in iraq, you are able to leverage, you know, in some ways, look legitimate grievances, whether it's a side of the regime, russia, or even the united states and their support for their s d, f and the excesses of the student democratic forces in places like hasn't been so um it raised a lot of concerns. the group is not fully eliminated. it retains the ability to conduct these kind of stripes. and also one thing to mention, there are thousands of former ices fighters and or their families, including minors. children who are now still in detention after 3 years across detention facilities in the north east, under the guard of u. s. back forces, the s d f. and you know, one of the horrible situations of this research present rate is hundreds of boys

apparently were in that jail. and we believe many have been killed. and so that itself feeds into a new narrative of grievances on the part not only of isis die hards, but local populations, and that that could feed new recruits into the future. so i think it's really a concern and a requires a holistic approach to the immediate security situation, but as well as the underlying problems. it collin, this strategy that we see enacted by the u. s. these decapitation strikes where whether it's an air raid or, or a ground operation in which the leader of ice or, or other groups are taken out. and then they're able to, you know, reconstitute me how much impact really do they have on a group like iso. i mean, does this just become a cycle whereby, you know, the leader is killed or, or dies and then somebody else takes their place and then the whole cycle starts over again or less. i mean, that's what we've been doing. i mean,

you can use whatever cliche you want a wakeham, all or as the israelis call it mowing the lawn a bit crude when you think about what, what, what we're doing but an accurate nonetheless. and i think, you know, that the only thing i'd say is that not all leaders are created equal. and so you will have leaders that are more charismatic or better at recruiting and propaganda than others. some that are, you know, better strategists, but absolutely the machinery of these organizations to le justice logistics networks, the financing, the propaganda, all of these things have been built over time. and they're extremely difficult if not impossible, to dismantle. particularly if you're just talking about removing leaders, you also have the issue of intel gain loss, which is the devil you know, versus the belly. you don't, the more you remove leaders, you know, the less intelligence you have on who's coming up the pipe next. and those leaders

that ultimately come up the, you know, the, the leadership pipeline may actually be more radical than those that they supplanted. so that's a concern to my one. i just want to try to take a step back for a moment and look at the bigger picture here, especially in the region. i me, one of the things that this a raid has done is it has refocused attention on syria. and so i just want to ask you, what is the overall situation there right now? what i think am there is some kind of a good luck and city right now, because as you know, of course, i'm in the major i and, but it has actually ceased. well, and we don't have, we don't have major confrontations like not, and celia, but we don't have a bit of process as well. so now full of lions are more or less and fixed over the past 2 years. should he says that that could eat meant that the switch element between president of the ban of the again, been booked and off of a shop, especially in it live witnesses for that either i said was eliminated

a couple of days ago so that the situation like now is it a country is in fact am i, you can describe the host picture as is, is getting dismantled by the hour. why? because we have a very difficult osh economic conditions. and we have several of these is super places that we have that the situation of the people actually are under, under the gym or under opposition, is due to the waiting by, by the day you can actually see how people are affected by the harsh winter. these days without having actually enough for a pool supplies and other basic needs. so i think the situation is really is really dire. and this is where i think what are they like is this is important. they like is this right now? this is what not me talking, i was there are 4 to 4 and for some time now,

now this is mainly considered right now about actually supplying, get a system here, 1000000000 eat the city and people and really may, i think i saw i saw at the buddy, no vision, i believe in dealing with the cdn conflict is actually putting cost in this precious shameka at because they have one to at if he is the responsibility somehow or to think of the, the burden from his child. does my saying when i was she handling the senior by providing them with me? on the other hand we are, we are actually after i said, i'm not planning to weaken it. but other than that done, because i'm not doing what they need to do, which is the political process, that is the issue here. that is the thing that we need to look at. because as long as this conflict gone both on and as long as the situation is literally waiting of the people, we will have more be we're actually joining i. so there would be that, that, that equipment. i say it would be,

it would be easier because the great guess is we have to think about that very difficult condition. because look, i said matawan rely on, i'm not gonna do it one, i'm sorry, i'm and one, i'm sorry to interrupt you. we're, we're just starting to run out of time. well, i, i want to ask you about, well, from your purse there in washington, d. c. i mean, do you see this playing out advantageous, lee for president biden? you know, former president obama. he ordered the re, the killed us, our been lawton, a former president, trump ordered the rate in which i will butler by the bad he died. does this help biden? does it help him domestically in the u. s. and does it help the way he's perceived internationally? look, it's not going to hurt him and it will likely help him in the short term. but right now the american population in general, may most don't know who for a she is really. and they are focused on the inflation situation in the united states, the high prices for consumer good. and so as we get closer to the midterm election,

i think this operation will receive into the memory of the american population. and i don't think there will be a big impact for him electronically. however, i think from a prestige from, you know, within the foreign policy circles, people who track these are, you know, these issues. yes. but again, even within those circles, with a here in a broad people always be asking the question, what is the united states doing strategically to alleviate the situation in syria, to stabilize the situation and syria and to hell. and by the way, again, not only the united states to do but with its allies and the region to address the root causes of this conflict. and i would say that even though there is now a defacto. so i stable situation in syria, there is a deadlock, as it was just mentioned, there are some factors, any change it right now. we'll see what happens with the ukraine and russia situation. second, the negotiations with iran over its iranian over its nuclear deal. 3rd,

did judy economic situation in syria and in iraq, which can have part of the regimes efforts to hold on to areas that controls already. and for the midterm elections, obviously, what happens, you're literally really united states because clearly we're not staying there forever. so just a matter of time and what is going to drive the administration to make that decision a call. and i saw you nodding along to some of what, what it was saying there. did you want to jump in? i just think we don't have a serious strategy and, and we'll biden, you know, get a boost from, from, you know, this to capitation strike yet temporarily, but he's got to do it again and again and again. and if he actually wants to make any progress, it's got to be connected to some broader strategy, which we just lack. we're, we're pretty rudderless in terms of foreign policy. and we have little little leverage in syria and afghanistan. so, you know, look at the major players in syria, iran, russia,

united states is one of several parties. and it's clear that you know, the turks are and others that you know, there's no clear and coherent game plan or blueprint for how to operate in the middle east. the u. s. is desperate to get out of the middle east and quote unquote, pivot to asia, but keeps getting dragged back in. and again, without a kind of broader grand strategy or even a regional strategy, we're going to end up in the same situation. matawan, we only have a couple of minutes left. let me just ask you, you know, i saw previous leader ever buckner about that he was much more well known than adequate a she, i, he was considered more care. charismatic. he was ed, you know, he, analysts say he was able to recruit more people and inspire more people. the fact that it was quite a she was less visible that he had a lower profile that, that make it more difficult for ice will to spread his propaganda and inspire recruits. i'm not sure about that or

a actually make mention as long as we have the conditions that isn't being high. so it, we're going to have actually more more people joining i said, unless you, with the conditions that i've been using, the sort of a condition that we are we are dealing with right now is, and both countries actually, there are so many dvds is located against is and in, back to people actually to join join us. and of course, i mean about that was much more that was my thing because as you know that he's in for that he and he defeated the army in most that i need to know why he was more like empty when should lead to high. so like i said, this is not the leadership wise, it's more about the conditions that are producing time and again. all right, well we have run out of time, so we're going to have to leave the discussion there. thanks so much. all of our

guess was a at one column and column clark. and thank you for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website, algebra dot com. and for further discussion, go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha, inside story. you can also join the conversation on twitter. handle is at a j inside story. for me, how much improvement whole team here, bye for now. ah stories of life. and inspiration.

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