that you'll get to look at alumni. my feeling is that what will happen over the years to drought and all that with climate change. for months now, spain has suffered from low rainfall and te tell from the environment, ministry shows reservoirs of well below capacity for taurus, a nostalgic trip round a coast village is also a reminder, the region is facing a tough reality. who may consume under caesar? ah, this is al jazeera and these are the headlines. u. s. present, joe biden has held a one hour phone call with russia's leader vladimir putin. it's the latest attempt to find a diplomatic solution to the stand off over ukraine. earlier russia summoned the u . s. military attache alleging a u. s. submarine violated its territorial waters in for far east. our white house

correspondent, kimberly hark. as more from washington, from the read out from the state department, the message communicated by the united states to russia is that the diplomatic path to resolving these security differences over ukraine remains open. but in the eyes of the united states, russia needs to de escalate to and engage immediately in good faith discussions. now, should russia ignore the warnings of the west? it is the belief of the west that essentially if lot of repute decides to invade ukraine, his actions will be met with resolute, massive, and united transatlantic response. the ukranian president, meanwhile, has urged citizens not to panic. as warnings grow of a potential russian invasion, something moscow denies. the u. s. is evacuating non emergency american south from its embassy in kiev. in other news, canadian police have begun to move in on protesters were blocking a vital bridge,

connecting canada to the u. s. on friday, a judge gave police of power to end the demonstrations against going of ours. pandemic restrictions police in paris, f i t gas at drive is broken votes in protests against over 19 restrictions. they defied guffman gun on the so called freedom convoy, inspired by truck drivers. protests in canada. french troops have killed more than 40 armed fighters on billions border with booking of fossil. the operation follows an attack on park rangers that are nature reserve in northern beneath. on tuesday, where a people were killed including one french national. and sure lancoste president has declared that health and power workers provide essential services, which means it's illegal for them to take strike action. public health care workers walked out earlier this week to demand better pay and conditions. those are the headlines inside story is next launches here. ah.

who should control afghanistan's foreign cash reserves? the u. s. moved to redistribute $7000000000.00 held in new york and keep it out of the taliban stands. some of it will go towards humanitarian aid. but is this plan fair to the afghan people? this is inside sport. ah. hello and welcome to the program. i'm hammer jim's room. the tele bonds, takeover of afghanistan last august, created a financial dilemma for nations holding the country's foreign cash reserves. the

deposed afghan government had $10000000000.00 in central banks around the world. 7000000000 were in the us and the rest in germany, switzerland, the u. k, and the u. e. those countries have refused to release the money to taliban leaders in cobble. as the dispute dragged on, afghanistan's economy deteriorated. foreign aid and banking services also were cut off. the un believes 97 percent of afghans will fall below the poverty line this year. more than half of the countries 40000000 people face acute hunger. now the u . s. president has signed an order to redistribute the funds and keep them out of the taller bonds hands under the executive order. joe biden used emergency powers to split the 7000000000 dollars held in the u. s. federal reserve bank in new york . hill. ask a judge for permission to put half of that into a trust fund for humanitarian relief in afghanistan. the other half will be used to

compensate the families of $911.00 victims. some economists say the plan will do more harm than good. they argued strips afghanistan of resources that could be used to stabilize its economy. all right, joining me now our, our guests in falls church, virginia is david sidney, senior associate for the center for strategic and international studies. david is a former us deputy assistant secretary of defense for afghanistan in cobble is pauline ballman, afghanistan, country director for the norwegian refugee council. and in milan is harun where he, me, assistant professor of law at the american university of afghanistan. a warm welcome to you all, and thanks so much for joining us on the program today. haroun, let me start with you. i saw your twitter feed after this news was announced about these negative order. and one of the things you wrote, you said this is completely unacceptable. and you said that the people of,

of ghana sent are the true owner of these assets. so from your perspective, is this executive order from us president joe biden legal i not believe the legal of the order invoke the provisions of the u. s. law that the us presence take action, get the one reserve of health inside the united states. so i believe the lawyers are fighting to prejudice to be consistent with their law. they also extra actually can take place for this order to ask you to possibly in the future. someone on government authorized to transfer to the ones that can be used for a that wouldn't be used. and then other land legal leg of this would

be what the us court would decide in terms of whether to sufficient interest in the funds. so the judgement that was entered into could be adequate from you, but those are the questions of us law and i'm not applying those. but if you mentally from the perspective international law, these are reserved belong to orange sovereign need, which is honest. and the question is not, what are the only that, that are knowledge from my perspective. it's a matter of whether as a country, as a sovereign nation, has a right to it or whatever is or, and the answer has to be yes. and just the fact that deserves or when the us surgery does not operate the state to make decisions, that such ramifications are the economy. and he's going to do the current

b to becoming almost used because the funds were back guarantee. and i'll issue a distances for the financial picture of the entire country. the result of which would be that the country would have no way, but to be relying on a almost indefinitely david from your vantage point. how unusual is this executive order from us president biden? and do you think that going forward it could be challenged? well, it can certainly be challenged in court if there is someone who as standing to do so. however, this kind of action by the united states government as professor how room me a pointed out to take an under us law is actually follows in many presidents going back many, many decades. the reserves of countries such as cuba, china, when a communist took over those countries, and a number of other countries have been subject of similar actions on

a not exactly the same. which different here is the decision to take a 3 and a half $1000000.00 of it, and to put it into some kind of a trust fund for humanitarian aid. there had been a large outpouring of people who wanted all the assets release to the title bond, which was something that both politically and legally united states government couldn't do, given the current court cases and the politics here in the us. so the decision to take that 3 and a half 1000000 and come up with some kind of trust fund which united states is now working with us other organizations to do. so that is something that is different that has happened in the past and the legality of that. and the practicality of that is something that needs to be worked out. pauline, the in our seeing or we can refugee council and many other agencies have called these last several months for frozen assets to be released to afghanistan. what do

you think about this executive order? i mean, do you think this will actually help get humanitarian aid into afghanistan? it perhaps one avenue. but in all honesty, what was seeing at the moment of very piecemeal, very kind of sticking cloth dissolutions to what is a fundamental economic crisis. people enough kind of feeling that being economy the strangled, by the lack of funds coming into the country by the lack of not just aid, but it can all make by ability within the country. so from contracting to construction, to the general sort of turnover of what you would expect to give people likelihood that's not happening. so you have over 50 percent of the population who are dependent on humanitarian aid. and at the same time that aid is struggling to get

into the country. so like i say it's a piecemeal attempt, it's not going to solve the problem. first, we need money to be able to come into the country. we need access to financial services. we need a functioning central bank, but at the same time we need to investment in livelihoods and the economy and the countries we have to get back on its feet. because in the meantime, people are, they have negative coping mechanisms. nearly 9000000 people on the brink of starvation, people are not able to access basic health care having to reduce the number of meals a day that they eat in order to be able to survive and to pete families. and they can't afford health care. so people dying simply because they cannot get the

services that they need for themselves and their families. haroun. i saw you nodding along to some of what pauline was saying there, did you want to jump in? so i would like to basically make the point that following a policy, whether or country, even before the us withdrawal happens toward the end war, the we are living below. and once the us withdrew from the country, it was all, and the biddable that it worked takes to take over a military, which was what happened. the aid would there will be dropping a battery with the country. the country would need aid and assistance who adjusted in the reality and we knew that adjusted would be painful. but there was, there was, there was a piece whole amongst the sanctions. would be revised a be more tailored, and central bank would be allowed to function as an independent entity focused on the patient. and in some sort of way. that would one way toward the functioning

economy. you get a poor country, but at least the function, the economy. so the 40000000 people who lived there could have living could actually earn a living, declined order. what is that, in effect, made that an impossibility but basic by, by basically removing the backing of the app on natural, making it big, close to use a close to use, but as long as he's not on a coming into the country, which would be the main source of dark or, or the country for a future. at the same time, thanks or a put in place. and there will be exemptions or a people who wanted to give up on money for the feed themselves. they can do all, but there are many other avenues for crazy and basic functions of the economy are still strangle. bye bye bye, thanks. so he's on the dog during play. and now in this scenario, bank really does not

a ways to maintain his ability to mark in the army and that they were like us be denominator currency, the country, the prospect on the binding who are going economy in middle term come in big bleak, which means the whole population is likely to stay in a quite between by brain law. you all have to rely and i think or, or bring it in not really reaching a level of need. you want to cancel it general, just the denial of what is needed to have had been actually deliberate. so what do you want, what you want to do, and this is not going to mean this is the 1st year we're on the new was going to happen the next year. we don't know what needs to happen. i have an economy. the honest non people are going to continue to suffer independently and pulling it also

look to me right now. like you might have wanted to jump in and add to what her own was saying. go ahead. just to say that in addition to the economic crisis, there are natural disasters in afghanistan that exacerbate the situation. so for example, and i'll see at the moment is responding to the people who are being affected by the earthquake and baptists. i'm trying to help them to rebuild, to have essential non food i can just to be added to get through to the next day. so in addition to the situation there is drought there a way there is a humanitarian crisis that underpin the rest as their economic dysfunction of the country. so i totally agree that what is needed in the median to long term, some solutions to the livelihoods and the but the country can get back to something that is normal in terms of functioning. but people to be able to earn a living and,

and support their families. but in the meantime, when you have nearly 50 percent of the population in need of humanitarian assistance, with crisis after crisis, than the has to be more has to be done to enable money to come into the country to enable the economy to function. and to have the aid organizations was there has been a 4400000000 appeal and by the humanitarian community, the money is still only trickling in. and if that is what is needed, just to get people and surviving in this kind of situation, then we need a major rethink and, and whether it's the trust fund, whether it's the un cardona, whether it's the humanitarian exchange or something that's just been announced. known as those or even those together and not going to solve the problem. david, i know you touched on this a bit in your last answer, but i just want to dig in

a little deeper on, i mean, critics of the executive order say that it's convoluted and that this process is going to be potentially long and messy. first, i want to ask you, what do you think? does this have the potential to be really messy? second, i want to ask you as far as president biden's perspective, i mean, was this politically really the only sort of compromise he could make when it comes to these funds? first as a very high probability that it will become even messier and everything relating to afghanistan currently says that both women pauline have pointed out. i think it's important to also recognize what the 2 of them said before the talk on take over afghans was a poor country where the very marginalized economy, with people suffering from starvation and lack of access to health care. all of those problems existed before august. the kind of the afghanistan has not been

a normal country for decades and decades. and to make, after i understand our help afghanistan to enable africa, i'm stand to become a normal country. the rest of the world spent 20 years and trillions of dollars are billions of dollars. hundreds of millions of dollars to try to do that in the last 20 years without pretty much success. in that, in that context, i would say that a release or non release of these funds is really irrelevant to the larger picture . the larger question poly just made a, how do you have a functioning economy in africa and how do you give the people that ask yanna, stan, i hope that they can enjoy the same economic and social benefits that many of the people in the rest of the world do, that's a question that no one has an answer for and releasing or not releasing these funds . it's not going to make really any appreciable difference in that. one thing that i think also important to recognise is the taliban so far have shown no capacity to address the issues that poly does raise the taliban fought in order to take over

the country. they fight, they take taken over the country. they've reimpose the same government with the same people who govern from say, 996 to 2001. during which period of time, the humanitarian and health issues, health problems that existed in which were even more severe. and now were addressed almost entirely by international organizations and organizations such as the region council. that was not a very satisfactory situation, but the title man seemed happy with it. and i think that's where we're headed. sort of a return to what happened between 996 in 2000. and one rough can stand with a country where the humanitarian needs were addressed by those humanitarian organizations that were willing to work in afghan extent. but i had no really no hope of progress towards the normality that paulina would like to see harun. i've, candice and central bank also has about $2000000000.00 scattered around in countries like switzerland, the u. a. e u. k. germany. will this executive order from president biden

set any kind of precedent with regard to the moneys in those countries of the fee? there is $1.00 major difference that is the $911.00 survival lawsuit that other country. but the other aspect of it, it is likely to have an impact because it would be the us making determination as to how it would deal with the reserves of an honest, as long as the on a sunday is controlled by a us sanction entity. as you may know, us bankers are global, so it could be going to giving guidelines to other countries as to how they could navigate that rather assets of the country. now that the country is controlled by us, action and fashion grew. although those country up and ignore that, they are willing to do more job honest on your are much more concerned about the

negation for this country. if in maybe taking more graphic measures, they don't know what they're going to follow or not. i would like to also respond to what i think and you certainly said they should have very no one knows what are the company economy, what it takes for them to function economy. and i absolutely agree that a lot of on ease on the party in charge of the country to figure that out, make the right and all. but i would also like to point out that we don't, we don't know how to make sure that we have on it as many, i mean, if you do, if these measures are implemented, as they are laid out, it is going to ensure that they will not catch up and anytime you're turning on an honest and even medium, no country can function without reserve,

nor be can be live without reserve. and in terms of the past 20 years, i mean there are 2 major issues. one was war. now it's over in affected in drop by and by an event. don't have the privilege information, but it seems to give me a call and no dividends for peace because they cannot accept them. that marriage or the past 20 years would be much dependent on money. and that money stopped more or less the other major issue that made up a big or country what year was the waste and corruption was going on because of mostly the way the money would've been in the country. a lot of money was on accountable. mean a great area. the thing is, as it has a lot of bankers and other measures taken up on that, i'm not trying to blame on anyone here. but in all the information you want to pretty much in charge of the whole country. and it is a continuation would have happened in 20 years, so we didn't see any dividend for peace in the sanctions. and the way to you

are all the occupant and we are going to see the continuation of the way the country will react. because i want to basically put in charge of the country, basic service david that when it comes to the part of the executive order, dealing with the $911.00 victims families, there are many cases in the u. s. as i understand it tied to 911, but not all 911 victims families think that this executive order is a good idea. is that correct? that's very true. a number of the 911 families represent been idling. families have spoken up and saying they don't want to have this money that could be used for humanitarian other activities in afghanistan. others unfortunate others in my view unfortunately have said they do want the money. the lawyers and these cases have been very aggressive. i think that's one of the weaknesses of the us legal system that this kind of thing can happen. my, my personal preference would have been to have all the money moved to the

humanitarian fun. but to under the u. s. legal system. i don't think that was going to be feasible for president biden, whether he had to keep as much money as he did is an open question. and again, as, as professor mentioned, there will be plenty of legal opportunities for the title mind if they wish to contest this in court, even though they already have a judgement against them. they can contest the use of these funds this way, whether they have the capacity to contest that is another question, but they certainly have certainly a possibility pauline, the in r c has said that you all faced lots of blockages and getting funds into afghanistan and withdrawing money for use in humanitarian operations over the course of the past couple of months, has that improved in any way? or is it still as difficult or even more difficult to withdraw money to get money

into the country? it's getting a little bit easier. in 2021. we had to over a 1000 challenges to bringing money into the country. and so far this year we've had 2 or 3. we have managed to bring some money in, but it's not the amount that we would need to deliver the programs that we have. but if it's a problem for us, then it's an even bigger problem to national geo. you cannot access any money from outside the country whatsoever. so that's a whole of a program and not able to be implemented because organization can't get the funds that they need. and i was just thinking, as my colleagues were talking, what does this mean for people on the ground? so when i go out and i visit communities and i meet people that are not the, is trying to help. i meet people who are having to make really ready hard choices

between sending the 3 month old son in order to pay for health care for the father of the candidate. whether they have to sell an organ in order to be able to feed that family. whether they have to send children out on to the streets to work rather than being able to go to school. these are all day the choices. this is the impact on people's day the lives of what the economic strangulation is, is affecting and impacting on everyday people. and these are not an exception, these are hundreds and thousands of people having to make these choices on a daily basis and polling we just have about a minute left. if i could just ask you also from your vantage point, what are some concrete steps that could be taken right now in order to get more aid into afghanistan immediately?

a free and out of the access to financial services on the central bank, free money from the wealth bank to be able to pay health care workers and education workers and getting that money to the national and jazz. there's been a funding for the last few months all last year. all nice to be on it. all right, well, we have run out of time to we're going to have to leave the conversation there. thank you so much to all of our guests. david, sidney, pauline ballman and how ruin righty me and thank you for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website al jazeera dot com and for further discussion, go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com forward slash ha inside story. you can also join the conversation on twitter or handle is at ha, inside story. for me, how much i'm drilling a whole team here. bye for now. mm

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the university college of science and technology is not only a repository of knowledge but an access point to the world beyond ah, this is al jazeera ah. this is a news hour on al jazeera. i'm fully batty ball live at our headquarters in doha, coming up in the next 60 minutes. u. s. president joe biden hold talks with russia is vladimir putin another attempt at a diplomatic solution over fears of a russian invasion of ukraine. the best friend for enemies that hispanic meanwhile ukraine surprised and.