which is in place around $200000.00 spectators are expected for its parades and traditional battle of the flowers. ah, what you will just bear with me said robin. a reminder of all the top stories. the white house says a phone call between the u. s. and russian leaders to discuss tensions with ukraine did not result in any fundamental change. moscow has been sending troops to ukraine's border raising phase of an invasion. now the kremlin said, the phone call was businesslike, but criticize the war hysteria in the west. ukrainian president vladimir zalinski says he's analyzed intelligence, information of possible evasion is our borders. it's our territory. you, you know, i have to speak with our people like, you know, like, like president and said people through us and the tools that we have different

information. and now, the best friend for enemies that hispanic in our country. and all this information details only for benny doesn't help us. rushes military says it's used appropriate means to force a u. s. submarine to leave its territorial waters. moscow claim to us vessel was chased away by a russian naval ship. now the pacific curial islands. but the u. s. has rejected claims. one of its submarines was operating in russian waters. canadian, please have begun dispersing truckers blocking traffic at a vital bridge to the u. s. demonstrators are angry about a coven, 19 vaccine mandate and restrictions. when the police say the standoff has been peaceful, the 5 day blockade of the ambassador bridge as disrupted the flow of goods between canada and the us. there have been similar protests in paris, french, please, breadth of a convoy vehicles that try to block traffic in protested against the pandemic

restriction. the sake of freedom convoys around the to get back, the passes, which are required at restaurants, and many other public venues. flank as president has declared that health and electricity work has provide essential services, which means it's illegal for them to strike public health workers walked out early this week to demand higher pay a better working conditions. under the rule, people could face up to 5 years in jail, have the assets confiscated for refusing to work. and taliban leaders that have got to san speaking out against the u. s. decision to return any half of the $7000000000.00 that holds in foreign reserves. president joe biden set aside the other half or 90 lead victims, many african, the demand, the, the money back. i'll be back with more des at half, and i here on, ouch is era. next, it's inside story to stay with us. ah,

who should control afghanistan's foreign cash reserves? the u. s. moved to redistribute $7000000000.00 held in new york and keep it out of the taliban hands. some of it will go towards humanitarian aid. but is this plan fair to the afghan people? this is inside. ah. hello and welcome to the program. i'm hammered. jim john, the tele bonds take over of afghanistan, last august, created a financial dilemma for nations holding the country's foreign cash reserves. the

deposed afghan government had $10000000000.00 in central banks around the world. 7000000000 were in the u. s. and the rest in germany, switzerland, the u. k, and the u. e. those countries have refused to release the money to taliban leaders in cobble. as the dispute dragged on, afghanistan's economy deteriorated. foreign aid and banking services also were cut off. the un believes 97 percent of afghans will fall below the poverty line this year. more than half of the countries 40000000 people face acute hunger. now the u . s. president has signed an order to redistribute the funds and keep them out of the taller bonds hands under the executive order. joe biden used emergency powers to split the 7000000000 dollars held in the u. s. federal reserve bank in new york . hill. ask a judge for permission to put half of that into a trust fund for humanitarian relief in afghanistan. the other half will be used to

compensate the families of $911.00 victims. some economists say the plan will do more harm than good. they argued strips afghanistan of resources that could be used to stabilize its economy. all right, joining me now our, our guests in falls church, virginia is david sidney, senior associate for the center for strategic and international studies. david is a former us deputy assistant secretary of defense for afghanistan in cobble is pauline ballman, afghanistan, country director for the norwegian refugee council. and in milan is harun where he, me, assistant professor of law at the american university of afghanistan. a warm welcome to you all and thanks so much for joining us on the program today. harun, let me start with you. i saw your twitter feed after this news was announced about these negative order. and one of the things you wrote, you said this is completely unacceptable,

and you said that the people of afghanistan are the true owner of these assets. so from your perspective, is this executive order from you as president joe biden legal? i not believe the legal of the order invoke the provisions of the u. s. law. authorize the us presence, take action, get the one reserve of health inside the united states. so i believe the lawyers are fighting to prejudice to be consistent with their law. they also extra actually can take place for this order to ask you to possibly in the future on one, on a, some government authorized to transfer to the ones that can be used for a that you wouldn't be use. and then other land legal leg of this would

be what the us court would decide in terms of whether to sufficient interest in the funds. so the judgement that was entered into could be satisfied from you. but those are the questions of us law and i'm not applying those. but if you mentally been the victim international law, these are reserved belong to orange sovereign need, which is honest. and the question is not, what are the only that that are not from my perspective, it's a matter of whether as a country as a nation has a right to it or whatever is or, and the answer has to be yes. and just the fact that deserves or when the us surgery does not operate the state to make decisions that gratification for the economy. and he's going to do the current

b to becoming almost used because these funds were back guarantee. and i'll issue a distances for the financial picture of the entire country. the result of which would be that the country would have no way, but to be relying on indefinitely. david, from your vantage point, how unusual is this executive order from us president biden? and do you think that going forward it could be challenged? well, it can certainly be challenged in court if there is someone who has standing to do so. however, this kind of action by the united states government as professor how room he me pointed out to take an under us law is actually follows. and many presidents going back many, many decades. the reserves of countries such as cuba, china, when a communist took over those countries, and a number of other countries have been subject of similar actions on a,

not exactly the same. what's different here is the decision to take a 3 and a half $1000000.00 of it, and to put it into some kind of a trust fund for humanitarian aid. there had been a large outpouring of people who wondered all the assets released to the title bond, which is something that both politically and legally the united states government couldn't do, given the current court cases and politics here in the us. so the decision to take that 3 and a half 1000000 and come up with some kind of trust fund which united states is now working with us other organizations to do. so that is something that is different that has happened in the past and the legality of that. and the practicality of that is something that needs to be worked out. pauline, the in our see in our region, refugee council and many other agencies have called these last several months for frozen assets to be released to afghanistan. what do you think about this executive

order? i mean, do you think that this will actually help get humanitarian aid into afghanistan? it perhaps one avenue, but in all honesty, what was seeing at the moment of very piecemeal, very kind of sticking cloth dissolutions to what is a fundamental economic crisis. people are enough kind of feeling that being economically strangled by the lack of funds coming into the country by the lack of not just aid, but it can all make viability within the country. so from contracting to construction, to the general sort of turnover of what you would expect to give people likelihood that's not happening. so you have over 50 percent of the population who are dependent on the humanitarian aid. and at the same time that aid is struggling to

get into the country. so like i say it's a piecemeal attempt, it's not going to solve the problem. first, we need money to be able to come into the country. we need access to financial services. we need a functioning central bank, but at the same time we need to investment in livelihoods and the economy and the country. we have to get back on its feet. because in the meantime, people are, they have negative coping mechanisms. nearly 9000000 people on the brink of starvation, people are not able to access basic health care having to reduce the number of meals a day that they eat in order to be able to survive and to pete families. and they can't afford health care. so people a dying simply because they cannot get the services that they need for themselves

in that family. haroun, i saw you nodding along to some of what pauline was saying there, did you want to jump in? so i would like to basically make the point that following a policy with a country, even before the us withdrawal happens toward the end war, the fund we're living below. and once the us withdrew from the country, it was almost, and the portable that it work takes to take military. what happened, the aid would there will be a drop in a bankruptcy where the country at the country would need aid and assistance to adjust that in the reality. and we knew that adjusted would be painful. but there was, there was, there was a piece whole amongst all the sanctions would be revised, be more tailored, and central bank allowed to function as an independent entity focused on the patient. and in some sort of way, i would,

why the way toward the functioning economy, you get a poor country, but at least a function economy. so the 40000000 people who lived there could have living could actually earn a living, declined order. what is that, in effect, made that an impossibility but basic by, by basically removing the backing of the app on natural, making it big, close to, to use a book to use. but as long as they are not born, a coming into the country would be the main source of dark or, or the country side feature at the same time, or put in place and exemptions or 8 people who wanted to give money for the can be developed they can do all, but there are many other avenues portrayed and basic functions of the economy are still strangled. bye bye bye. thanks. so he's on the door. don't play. and now in this scenario, bank really does not a ways to maintain

a stability to mark in the army, and that they were like us be denominator currency, the country, the prospect, the part of the binding. who are the economy in middle term come in big bleak, which means the whole population is like to stay in a quite between re law. you all have to rely and i think or, or bring it in, not really reaching a wanted to do the level of need. you can cancel it general just for the night the what is needed to have had been deliberate. so what do you want? what you and this is not the mean, this is the 1st year on the news was going to happen next year. we don't know what it needs to happen. i have an economy, the honest people are going to continue to suffer indefinitely. and pauline,

it also looked to me right now, like you might have wanted to jump in and add to what her own was saying. go ahead . just to say that in addition to the economic crisis, there are natural disasters in afghanistan that exacerbate the situation. so for example, and i see at the moment is responding to the people who's been affected by the earthquake, and i'm trying to help them to rebuild the time to have essential non food i can just to be added to get through to the next day. so in addition to the situation there is drought there a way there is a humanitarian crisis that underpin the rest of the economic dysfunction of the country. so i totally agree that what is needed in the medium to long term solutions to the livelihoods, and see that the country can get back to something that is normal in terms of

functioning, but people to be able to living and support that families. but in the meantime, when you have maybe 50 percent of the population in need of humanitarian assistance with crisis off the crisis, that has to be more has to be done to enable money to come into the country to enable the economy to function. and to have a dog united nations, while there's been a 4400000000 appeal by the humanitarian community, the money is still only tripling in. and if that is what is needed, just to get people surviving in this kind of situation, then we need a major rethink and whether it's the trust fund, whether it's the un cargile, whether it's the humanitarian exchange that should be in and out. none of those or even those together are not going to solve the problem. david, i know you touched on this a bit in your last answer, but i just want to dig in

a little deeper on the critics of the executive orders. say that it's convoluted and that this process is going to be potentially long and messy. first, i want to ask you, what do you think this have the potential to be really messy? second, i want to ask you as far as president biden's perspective, i mean, was this politically really the only sort of compromise he could make when it comes to these funds? first as a very high probability that it will become even messier and everything relating to afghanistan currently says that both women pauline have pointed out. i think it's important to also recognize what the 2 of them said before the talk on take over afghans was a poor country where the very marginalized economy, with people suffering from starvation and lack of access to health care. all of those problems existed before august. the kind of afghanistan has not been

a normal country for decades and decades. and to make, after i understand our help afghanistan to enable africa, i'm stand to become a normal country. the rest of the world spent 20 years and trillions of dollars are billions of dollars. hundreds of millions of dollars to try to do that in the last 20 years without pretty much success. in that, in that context, i would say that a release or non release of these funds is really irrelevant to the larger picture . the larger question poly just made a, how do you have a functioning economy in afghan and how do you give the people that ask yanna, stan, i hope that they can enjoy the same economic and social benefits that many of the people in the rest of the world do, that's a question that no one has an answer for and releasing or not releasing these funds . it's not going to make really any appreciable difference in that. one thing that i think also important to recognize as the taliban so far have shown no capacity to address the issues that poly has raised. the taliban fought in order to take over

the country. they fight, they take taken over the country. they reimpose the same government with the same people who govern from say, 996 to 2001. during which period of time, the humanitarian and health issues, health problems that existed in which were even more severe. and now were addressed almost entirely by international organizations and organizations such as the region council. that was not a very satisfactory situation, but the title one seemed happy with it. i think that's where we're headed. sort of a return to what happened between 996 in 2001 rough camps and was for a country where the humanitarian needs were addressed by those humanitarian organizations that were willing to work in africa understand. but i had no really no hope of progress towards the normality that paulina would like to see harun. i've, candice and central bank also has about $2000000000.00 scattered around in countries like switzerland, the u. a. e u. k. germany. will this executive order from president biden

set any kind of precedent with regard to the moneys in those countries? obviously there is one major difference that is the 911 survival love other country . but the other aspect of it is likely to have an impact because it would be the us making determination as to how it would deal with the reserves of an honest, as long as it is controlled by a us entity. as you may know, us bankers are global, so it could be going to getting guidelines to other countries as to how we could navigate that aspect of the country. now that the country is controlled by us action and us grew, although those country open ignore that they are willing to do more job honest on

your are much more concerned about the negation to those countries in maybe taking more practice measures. and they don't know what they're going to follow or not. i would like to also respond to what i think. and then they, they to, to really no one knows what are the economy, what it takes response function economy. and i absolutely agree that a lot of on it ease on the party in charge of the country to figure that out. make a right to an all. but i would also like to point out that we don't really know how to make sure one of them won't have an alternate on it. as many, i mean, if you, if these measures are implemented as they are laid out, it is going to ensure that they will no chance of functioning, returning your honest, honestly, even medium. no country can function. we got for reserve, no credit be can be

a blank without reserve. and in terms of the past 20 years, i mean there were 2 major issues. one was war. now it's over, in effect, is in drop by and by an event. don't have the privilege information, but it seems to give me a call and no dividends for peace. because the economic system that merge with the past when years would be much dependent on money and that money stopped more or less. the other major issue that made a big country with one year was the waste and corruption was going on because mostly the way the money would been in the country. a lot of money was on accountable mean of a gray area. the thing is continuing as it is a lot of bankers or other measures taken up on that. i'm not trying to blame on anyone here, but a lot of the equations you want to pretty much in charge of the whole country. and it is a continuation would have happened in 20 years, so we didn't see any dividend for peace of the sanctions. and the way to you with

that are all the consequences. and we are going to see the continuation of the way the country will rat because the you want to basically put in charge of the country, basic service david that when it comes to the part of the executive order, dealing with the 911 victims families, there are many cases in the u. s. as i understand it, tied to 911, but not all 911 victims families think that this executive order is a good idea. is that correct? that's very true. a number of the 911 families represent been i don't have families have spoken up and saying they don't want to have this money that could be used for humanitarian other activities in afghanistan. others unfortunate others in my view unfortunately have said they do want the money. the lawyers and these cases have been very aggressive. i think that's one of the weaknesses of the us legal system that this kind of thing can happen. my, my personal preference would have been to have all the money moved to the

humanitarian fund. but to under the u. s. legal system, i don't think that was going to be feasible for president biden. whether he had to keep as much money as he did is an open question. and again, as, as professor we mentioned, there will be plenty of legal opportunities for the title mind if they wish to contest this in court. even though they already have a judgement against them, they can contest the use of these funds this way. whether they have the capacity to contest that is another question, but they certainly have certainly a possibility pauline, the in r. c has said that you all faced lots of blockages and getting funds into afghanistan and withdrawing money for use in humanitarian operations. over the course of the past couple of months, has that improved in any way, or is it still as difficult or even more difficult to withdraw money to get money

into the country? it's getting a little bit easier. in 2021, we had to over a 1000 challenges to bringing money into the country. and so far this year we've had 2 or 3. we have managed to bring some money in, but it's not the amount that we would need to deliver. the programs that we have, but if it's a problem for us, then it's an even bigger problems and national geo. you cannot access any money from outside the country whatsoever. so that's a whole via of a program and not able to be implemented because organization can't get the funds that they need. and i was just thinking, as my colleagues were talking, what does this mean for people on the ground? so when i go out and i visit communities and i meet people that are not the is trying to help. i meet people who are having to make really ready hard choices

between sending the 3 month old son in order to pay for health care. for the father of the candidate, whether they have to sell an organ in order to be able to feed that family and whether they have to send children out on to the streets to work rather than being able to go to school. these are all day the choices, this is the impact on people's daily lives of what the economic strangulation is, is affecting and impacting on everyday people. and these are not an exception. these are all hundreds and thousands of people having to make these choices on a daily basis and polling we just have about a minute left. if i could just ask you also from your vantage point, what are some concrete steps that could be taken right now in order to get more aide into afghanistan immediately. a free and out of the

access to financial services on the central bank, free money from the wealth bank to be able to pay health care workers and education workers and getting that money to the national and jazz. there's been a funding for the last few months. all right, yet all nice to be on it. all right, well, we have run out of time to we're going to have to leave the conversation there. thank you so much to all of our guests. david sidney holly in ballman and how ruin righty me and thank you for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website al jazeera dot com and for further discussion, go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story. you can also join the conversation on twitter or handle is at ha, inside story. for me, how much i'm going the whole team here, bye for now. ah.

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knowledge is here. with every oh ha ha ha robin in doha, you're watching al jazeera, these are our top news stories. the white house says a phone call between the u. s. and russian leaders did not result in any fundamental change regarding moscow's military build upon ukraine's border. the kremlin said the coal was businesslike, but criticize what it described as war hysteria in the west. our white house correspondent, kimberly hell kit reports, according to a senior administration official, the telephone call between the us and russian president last a just over an hour. the call was apparently.