or in 95 mass, about 100000000 people are expected to watch super bowl 56 on tv and online. rob reynolds al, jazeera inglewood, california. as the 2 week lunar new year celebrations come to a close. people in taiwan have released hundreds of lanterns into the sky. they included large one, signifying the year of the tiger. the lanterns meant to symbolize the release of hope and prosperity to the world. ah, this is al jazeera, these, the top stories, the latest tron call between the u. s. and russian presidents has lasted an hour, but failed to reach any breakthrough on ukraine, siobhan, and repeated warnings of severe consequences if lat, about promotion goes ahead with an invasion. u. s. secretary of sate adney lincoln says it's not too late to avoid conflict. a diplomatic path to resolving this

crisis. a crisis created by the unprovoked massing of russian forces all around ukraine. that diplomatic path remains open. the way from moscow to show that it wants to pursue that path is simple. it should deescalate rather than escalate. and it should not only talk about seeking a diplomatic outcome, but actually work toward one. and the blanket made those remarks while discussing another global hauled spot, the korean peninsula. he's been hosting the japanese and south korean foreign ministers in hawaii. they talked about how to proceed with the north korea after a series of missile tests. libby and fighters who back into the prime minister of hum. as the baby had entered the capital, tripoli and convoys, the armed group say they want to shore up the variables position after the parliament and eastern, maybe a voted to replace them. the robot says he won't handle the power until long delayed elections are held. sedans,

military leader of the father of bar home says an investigation is underway into the death to protest as opposed last year's takeover. health official, certainly 79 people have been killed in demonstrations since october. crowds of anti vaccine protest is a continuing to block, a vital bridge on the u. s. canada border. trunk drivers are angry. they must be vaccinated to drive across the board of demonstrators are also gathering and also where protest camps have paralyzed the canadian capital for 3rd weekend. swift mostly is deciding whether the bad most tobacco advertising is less restrictive in many other countries. a situation blamed on the influence of tobacco firms who have headquarters in switzerland and other reference question on sunday is about whether to end all animal testing, including medical research experiments. does the headline small news here? i don't 0, but after inside story, but i, katie's county today, you steve in the regions rachida magic past and horses under way of life talk to

out is either goes to kingston to discover more about the cultural and economic significance of these majestic creatures. katy's downs horses, wings of pride on al jazeera, who should control afghanistan's foreign cash reserves. the u. s. move to redistribute $7000000000.00 held in new york and keep it out of the taliban dance. some of it will go towards humanitarian aid. but is this plan fair to the afghan people? this is inside. ah . hello and welcome to the program. i'm hammered. jim john, the tele barnes takeover of afghanistan last august, created a financial dilemma for nations holding the country's foreign cash reserves. the

deposed afghan government had $10000000000.00 in central banks around the world. 7000000000 were in the u. s. and the rest in germany, switzerland, the u. k. and the u. e. those countries have refused to release the money to taliban leaders in cobble. as the dispute dragged on, afghanistan's economy deteriorated. foreign aid and banking services also were cut off the you and believes 97 percent of afghans will fall below the poverty line. this year. more than half of the countries 40000000 people face acute hunger. now the u. s president has signed an order to redistribute the funds and keep them out of the taller bonds hands under the executive order. joe biden used emergency powers to split the 7000000000 dollars held in the u. s. federal reserve bank in new york. hill. ask a judge for permission to put half of that into a trust fund for humanitarian relief in afghanistan. the other half will be used to

compensate the families of $911.00 victims. some economists say the plan will do more harm than good. they argue it strips afghanistan of resources that could be used to stabilize its economy. all right, joining me now are our guests in falls church. virginia is david sidney, senior associate for the center for strategic and international studies. david is a former us deputy assistant secretary of defense for afghanistan in cobble is pauline ballman, afghanistan, country director for the norwegian refugee council. and in milan is harun where he, me, assistant professor of law at the american university of afghanistan. a warm welcome to you all and thanks so much for joining us on the program today. harun let me star with you. i saw your twitter feed after this news was announced about these i could have order. and one of the things you wrote, you said this is completely unacceptable. and you said that the people of,

of ghana sent are the true owner of these assets. so from your perspective, is this executive order from us president joe biden legal? i do not believe the legal of the order invoke the provisions of the u. s. law that the us presidents take action get the one reserve of a country held inside the united states. so i believe the lawyers are fighting the president to be consistent with their law. they also are extra actually needed. so you can take place for this order to ask you to possibly in the future, someone on government authorized to transfer funds to the ones that can be used for a that wouldn't be used. and then other land legal leg up. this would

be what the us court would decide in terms of whether it is sufficient interest in the funds. so the judgement that was interesting to finish could be satisfied from you. but those are the questions of us law and i'm not gonna apply them those. but if you mentally, from the perspective of international law, these are reserved belong to, or sovereign nation, which is honest on. and then the question is not, what are the bon olmby or not? from my perspective, it's a matter of whether i phone as a country, as a sovereign nation, has a right to it or whatever is or, and the answer has to be yes. and just the fact that deserves or when the us surgery does not operate the united states to make decisions that such as ramifications or the economy is going to do the current be to becoming almost used

because the funds were back guarantee. an issue with the financial picture of the entire country, the result of which would be that the country would have no way, but to be relying on a almost indefinitely david from your vantage point. how unusual is this executive order from us president biden? and do you think that going forward it could be challenged? well, it can certainly be challenged in court if there is someone who as standing to do so. however, this kind of action by the united states government as professor how room ready me pointed out, taken under us law, is actually follows. and many presidents going back many, many decades. the reserves of countries such as cuba, china, when a communist took over those countries, and a number of other countries have been subject of similar actions on a,

they're not exactly the same. what's different here is the decision to take a 3 and a half $1000000.00 of it, and to put it into some kind of a trust fund for humanitarian aid. there had been a large outpouring of people who wondered all the assets released to the title bond, which is something that both politically and legally united states government couldn't do given the current court cases. and they and politics here in the us. so the decision to take that 3 and a half 1000000 and come up with some kind of trust fund which united states is now working with us other organizations to do. so that is something that is different that has happened in the past and the legality of that to the practicality of that is something that needs to be worked out. pauline, the in our seeing or we can refugee council and many other agencies have called these last several months for frozen assets to be released to afghanistan. what do

you think about this executive order? i mean, do you think this will actually help get humanitarian aid into afghanistan? it perhaps one avenue. but in all honesty, what was seeing at the moment very piecemeal, very kind of sticking class dissolution to what is a fundamental economic crisis. people are not done of feeling that being economically strangled, by the lack of funds coming into the country by the lack of not just aid, but it can all make by ability within the country. so from contract does to construction to the general sort of turnover of what you would expect to give people likelihood that's not happening. so you have over 50 percent of the population who are dependent on humanitarian aid. and at the same time that aid is

struggling to get into the country. so like i say it's a piecemeal attempt, it's not going to solve the problem. first, we need money to be able to come into the country. we need access to financial services. we need a functioning central bank, but at the same time we need to investment in livelihoods and the economy and the countries we have to get back on its feet. because in the meantime, people are, they have negative coping mechanisms. nearly 9000000 people on the brink of starvation, people are not able to access basic health care having to reduce the number of meals a day that they eat in order to be able to survive and to pete families. and they cannot afford health care. so people are dying simply because they cannot get the

services that they need for themselves and their families, haroun. i saw you nodding along to some of what pauline was saying there, did you want to jump in? so i would like to basically make the point that following a policy, whether or country, even before the u. s. withdrawal happens toward the end war, the we're living the look of it and what the us withdrew from the country. it was almost an available that it's on work. take the take over military with what happened. the aid would there will be a drop in a passion for the country. and the country would need aid in the system to adjusted a new reality. every knew that addicted would be painful, but there was, there was, there was a piece whole amongst all the sanctions would be revised. be more tailored. and the central bank allowed to function as an independent entity focused on the patient.

and in some sort of way. by the way toward the functioning economy, you get a poor country, but at least a function economy. so the 40000000 people who lived there could have living could actually earn a living, declined order. what is that, in effect, made that an impossibility but basic by, by basically removing the backing of the app on natural, making it big, close to use a book to use, but as long as they are not born, a coming into the country would be the main source of data for or for the country side feature at the same time or a put in place and they're only exemptions are 8. so people who wanted to give up on money for the can be developed. they can do all. but there are many other avenues were crazy and basic functions of the economy are still strangled. bye bye bye. thanks. so he's on the dog during play and now and the not really the ways to

maintain stability, to mark and it's about it. and they were like us be denominator currency, the country, the prospect, the part of the binding who are in economy in middle term come bleak, which means the whole population is like to stay in a quick question for you all have to rely and i think or are they not really reaching out wanted to the level of need you or you cancel it general just for the night put into what is needed to have had been deliberate. so why did it went and this is not going to mean this is the 1st year on the new was going to happen next year. we would need to have an economy, the honest people are going to continue to suffer indefinitely and pauline,

it also look to me right now like you might have wanted to jump in and add to what her own was saying. go ahead just to say that in addition to the economic crisis, there are natural disasters in afghanistan that exacerbate the situation. so for example, and i'll see at the moment is responding to the people who's been affected by the earthquake. and i'm trying to help them to rebuild the time to have essential non food i can just to be added to get through to the next day. so in addition to the situation there is drought there a way there is a humanitarian crisis that underpin the rest of the economic dysfunction of the country. so i totally agree that what is needed in the media and some long term solutions to live because the country can get back to something that is normal in terms of functioning,

but people to be able to living and support their families. but in the meantime, when you have maybe 50 percent of the population in need of humanitarian assistance with crisis off the crisis, then the has to be more has to be done to enable money to come into the country to enable the economy to function. and to have a dog united nations as being 4400000000 appeal by the humanitarian community. the money is still only tripling in. and if that is what is needed, just to get people surviving in this kind of situation, then we need a major rethink. and whether it's the trust fund, whether it's the un cargile, whether it's the humanitarian exchange that should be in and out known as those or even those together. i'm not going to solve the problem. david. i know you touch on this a bit and your last answer, but i just want to dig in a little deeper on,

i mean, critics of the executive orders say that it's convoluted and that this process is going to be potentially long and messy. first, i want to ask you, what do you think? does this have the potential to be really messy? second, i want to ask you as far as president biden's perspective, i mean, was this politically really the only sort of compromise he could make when it comes to these funds? well 1st as a very high probability that it will become even messier as everything relating to afghanistan currently says that both women, pauline pointed out, i think it's important to also recognize what the 2 of them said before the tall and take over asking understand was a poor country where the very marginalized economy, with people suffering from starvation and lack of access to health care, all of those problems existed before august. the kind of afghanistan has not been

a normal country for decades and decades. and to make, after understand our help afghanistan to enable africa understand to become a normal country. the rest of the world spent 20 years and trillions of dollars are billions of dollars. hundreds of millions of dollars to try to do that in the last 20 years without pretty much success. in that, in that context, i would say that the release or non release of these funds is really irrelevant to the larger picture to the larger question that poly just made a, how do you have a functioning economy in afghan and how do you give the people that ask yanna, stan, i hope that they can enjoy the same economic and social benefits that many of the people in the rest of the world do. that's a question that no one has an answer for and releasing or not releasing these funds . it's not going to make really any appreciable difference in that. one thing that i think also important to recognize as the taliban so far have shown no capacity to address the issues that poly has raised. the taliban fought in order to take over

the country. they fought me, they've taken over the country, they've reimpose the same government with the same people who govern from 1996 to 2001 during which period of time the humanitarian and health issues, health problems that existed in which were even more severe than that and now were addressed almost entirely by international organizations and organizations such as the weekend council. that was not a very satisfactory situation, but the title one seemed happy with it. and i think that's where we're headed. sort of a return to what happened between 996 and 2001 rough gmc was or country with the humanitarian needs were addressed by those humanitarian organizations that were willing to work in afghan extent. but i had no really no hope of progress towards the normality that paulina would like to see harun. i've carousel central bank also has about $2000000000.00 scattered around in countries like switzerland, the u. a. e u. k. germany,

will this executive order from president biden set any kind of precedent with regard to the moneys in those countries? obviously there is one major defense that is 911 survival love, other country. but the other aspect of it is likely to have an impact because it would be the us making determination as to how it would deal with the reserves of an honest, as long as it is controlled by a us entity. as you may know, us bankers are global, so it could be going to giving guidelines to other countries as to how we could navigate that aspect of the country. now that the country is controlled by us, action and fashion grew. although those country up and ignore that, they are willing to do more job honest on your are much more concerned about the

negation to this country. if you maybe taking more graphic measures and they don't know what they're going to be or not, i would like to also respond to what i think. and then they, they should a very no one knows what are the economy, what it case ref, monica function economy. and i absolutely agree that a lot of on it ease on the party in charge of the country to figure that out. make the right to all, but i would also like to point out that we don't really know how to make sure one of them one economy. as many, i mean if you do, if these measures are implemented, as they are laid out, it is going to ensure that they will not have an attorney on an honest, even medium, nor can function we got for reserve. no credit be can be

a black without warrant reserve. and in terms of the past 20 years, i mean there are 2 major issues. one was war now it's over, in effect, has been dropped in by and by an event. don't have the privilege information, but it seems to give me a call and no dividends for peace because the economic system that emerged with the past when years would be much dependent on money. and that money stopped more or less. the other major issue that made a big country what year was the way some corruption was going on? because mostly the way the money would been in the country. a lot of money was been to on accountable mean a great area. the thing is considering them as a result of banking, other measures taken up on that. i'm not trying to blame on anyone here, but a lot of those 2 issues. you want to pretty much in charge of the whole country. and it is a continuation would have happened in 20 years. so we didn't see any dividend from piece of the sanctions. and the way to you with that are all the consequences.

and we are going to see the continuation of the way the country was rat. because the, you want to basically put in talk of the country, basic service david that when it comes to the part of the executive order, dealing with the 911 victims families, there are many cases in the u. s. as i understand it tied to 911, but not all 911 victims families think that this executive order is a good idea. is that correct? that's very true. a number of the 911 families has been delivered. families have spoken up and saying they don't want to have this money that could be used for humanitarian other activities in afghanistan. others unfortunate others in my view unfortunately have said they do want the money. the lawyers and these cases have been very aggressive. i think that's one of the weaknesses of the us legal system that this kind of thing can happen. my, my personal preference would have been to have all the money moved to the

humanitarian fun. but to under the u. s. legal system. i don't think that was going to be feasible for president biden, whether he had to keep as much money as he did is an open question. and again, as, as professor mentioned, there will be plenty of legal opportunities for the title mind if they wish to contest this in court, even though they already have a judgement against them. they can contest the use of these funds this way. whether they have the capacity to contest that there's another question, but they certainly have certainly a possibility pauline, the in r c has said that you all faced lots of blockages and getting funds into afghanistan and withdrawing money for use in humanitarian operations. over the course of the past couple of months, has that improved in any way, or is it still as difficult or even more difficult to withdraw money to get money

into the country? it's getting a little bit easier. in 2021, we had over a 1000 challenges to bringing money into the country. and so far this year we've had 2 or 3. we have managed to bring some money in, but it's not the amount that we would need to deliver. the programs that we have, but if it's a problem for us, then if you need bigger problems and national geo, you cannot access any money from outside the country whatsoever. so that's a whole via of a program and not able to be implemented because organization can't get the funds that they need. and i was just thinking, as my colleagues were talking, what does this mean for people on the ground? so when i go out and i visit communities and i meet people that are not the is trying to help. i meet people who are having to make really ready hard choices

between sending the 3 month old son in order to pay for health care. for the father family, whether they have to sell an organ in order to be able to feed that families, whether they have to send children out onto the streets work rather than being able to go to school. these are all day the choices. this is the impact on people's daily lives of what the economic strangulation is, is affecting and impacting on everyday people. and these are not an exception. these are hundreds and thousands of people having to make these choices on a daily basis and polling we just have about a minute left. if i could just ask you also from your vantage point, what are some concrete steps that could be taken right now in order to get more aid into afghanistan immediately?

a free and out of the access to financial services on the central bank, free money from the wealth bank to be able to pay health care workers and education workers and getting that money to the national and jazz that had been out of funding for the last few months. all right, year. all nice to be on it. all right, well we have run out of time to we're going to have to leave the conversation there . thank you so much to all of our guests. david, sidney, pauline ballman. and how ruin righty me. and thank you for watching, you can see the program again any time by visiting our website, al jazeera dot com, and for further discussion, go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story. you can also join the conversation on twitter. our handle is at ha, inside story. for me, how much i'm drilling a whole team here. bye for now.

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t way which we're almost walked out across the region 2 decades ago. blue showcase is the best documentary films from across the network on al jazeera. ah. ready no breakthrough in the licensed phone call between the us and russian presidents to manage growing hostility over ukraine. ah, i'm can v l this is l g r alive from dough also coming up. despite rising anger to new z as president of.