how much it has several because it can do some tunneling also, which is dangerous because if people are living in the area and this tunneling has taken place. so then those areas become weak. people living close to the stream say they're concerned, they could be more damage. we are living in fear because the sink hole may cause the land to collapse. we live near the bank of the stream and it's a threat to our homes in our lives. the government is being urged to act quickly before the woman, whether it causes more smarter mouth and further flush the sin cold. elizabeth per item al jazeera new delhi. ah, this is agitated. let's get around now to top stories. us president joe biden will convene and national security meeting on sunday to discuss the crisis in ukraine. ukraine says russia back separatists have opened fire on more than 30 settlements

in the east. european monitoring agency o. s. he says it's recorded almost 2000 seas 5 our nations on saturday. russia says hypersonic missiles have been launched during strategic nuclear drills overseen by president vladimir putin kremlin, denying the war games will further inflame tension. the ukrainian president has warned that a war with russia will have global consequences. while demi soleski told delegates at the munich security conference, the global security infrastructure is failing ukraine. he says this country's committed to peace, but world powers are failing, showed logic, but it seems to lead to be in the maya, troy. there is no such thing as it is not my war and the 21st century, the annexation of crimea. the war in dumbass are a blow to the whole world. this is not about water ukraine. this is about water in europe. i mention this in 20192022021. with a well be able to hear me. 2022. canadian police say they've made progress in

clearing protest this opposing pandemic restrictions from streets in the capital ought to demonstrate to started to leave off the officers moved on those camping outside parliament. they've occupied the area for the past 3 weeks. hundreds of people are celebrating on the streets of molly, after the ruling military gentle ordered french troops out of the country. france had already announced its withdrawal after a 9 year mission, fighting against scoops linked, fall, kinda an eyesore. while molly wants been gone without delay, power says the process to take as long as 6 months. a 12 truck drivers main missing as emergency services battle to control a fire on a greek fairy. the place broke out on friday as the vessel headed to italy with 288 people on board. those are the headlines swift back with more after inside story. aah!

who's telling the truth about ukraine? russia and the u. s. are both accused of manipulating facts to fan the flames of war. so who will win the information battle for public opinion? this is inside story. ah. hello and welcome to the program. i'm how much am jerome? it's often said that the 1st casualty of war is the truth with tension is running high over a potential russian invasion of ukraine. all sides have accused each other of spreading misinformation and propaganda. here are some examples. the separatist

leaders of the don bass region ordered massive accusations to southern russia. they say the ukrainian military is preparing to move into the area key of denies this and the u. s. calls the evacuation operation, a false flag operation by russia to justify military action. moscow has long said ukraine is threatening russian speakers, even accusing key of, of genocide. politically allow me to add that in our assessments. what's happening now that dumbass constitutes genocide, the u. s. called the genocide claim a reprehensible falsehood. the state department says russia is behind a huge disinformation campaign, but washington has faced criticism as well. the u. s. as moscow could invade at any moment, joe biden repeated the warning despite ukraine's president saying, such information is sewing unnecessary fear. we have reasonably,

the russian forces are planned into an intend to attack ukraine in the coming week . the coming days we believe that there will target ukraine's capital key a city of 2800000 innocent people. and do you have any indication about whether president has made a decision on whether to do so confident that he, that he hasn't made that decision already? as of this moment, i'm convinced he's made the decision. we have reasonably. some journalists are questioning the use of flawed intelligence by comparing the situation to the us invasion of iraq in 2003. this early to provide some underlying evidence of just what you're seeing. that shows americans. this is a country that went through ross and concerns about what the intelligence the showing that the administration so you need to provide underline and tell us what, let me just start with a fundamental distinction between the situation in iraq and the situation today.

and the situation in iraq, intelligence was used and deployed from this very podium to start a war. we are trying to stop a war to prevent, to war 2 and a, to affirm a war. and all we can do is come here before you and give good faith in sure everything that we know to the best of our ability while protecting sources and methods. so we continue to get the access to intelligence we need. ah, all right, let's bring in our guess. lotta ros. litski is founder and managing partner at black trident defense and security consulting group. she joined us from give. richard soco is a professor of russian and european politics at the university of kent. he joins us from kent in the united kingdom. and joining us by skype from munich is peter's on my of executive director at the erasure democracy initiative. a warm welcome to you all, and thanks so much for joining us today on inside story. la, to let me start with you today. tensions right now are soaring about the situation with regard to russia and ukraine from your vantage point. is there anybody when it

comes to the dis information and misinformation war that's going on between the u. s. in russia, that is actually winning this battle at the moment. and there can be no winner in any psychological operation that terrorizes and population as millions, tens of millions of people. so right now, no women only need peter. moscow is accuse ukraine of plotting a genocide against ethnic russians and denounced ukrainians as nazi sympathizers. this is the narrative that is being advanced by russian media outlets. you hear this more and more each and every day. what else are we hearing when it comes to russian? this information about ukraine? well, 1st of all, obviously you have to understand that this is a complete lie in a fabrication i originally from the east of ukraine. i'm

a russian speaking ukrainian, american from the net originally. so there's no genocide going on. there never, never happened. there it is, obvious would be hearing from moscow and obviously a is what we're seeing from moscow is attempts to make ukrainians panic. make ukrainians afraid? you know, there's current constant flow of information including coming from washington that we still haven't been able to verify the veracity of projects that russia has plans to the entire country. they are preparing lists of all those activists such as myself. for example, we're based in kids who have been critical of russia. that would be the 1st a rush a day that would be the 1st to be arrested, disappeared, shot, etc. so there is, there is, there's that campaign of intimidation that we're seeing. that is a crucial component of witness strategy, whether he orders a full country invasion or, or not. a lot of, i thought you nodding along to

a lot of what peter was saying there, it looks like you wanted to jump in. so please go ahead. yes it, it is a quite terrorizing to hear about these lists and that having been said however, we do need to look back at what happened in 2014 when the russian special agents were abducting assassinating a ukrainians on mosque in the currently uncontrolled territories. so it is frightening, it's completely unpleasant. it does help in a matter of protecting. for instance, earlier people had all of their friends phone numbers in their telephone on their sim cards. people been such as accident is who could potentially be on his lease list. a probably a little bit more keen on, not having that information on them should they be impacted. richard, you know, western governments have been very vocal lately about trying to out russian on line dis, information tactics. this,

this is quite different than the response in the past. is this amped up response? because of the fact that moscow has been successful in tilting public opinion around geopolitical issues in the past. well, there's 2 things there on the gear politics. this language of these information misinformation is misleading. in some cases it's useful. yes, and we'll come back to that. but what a lot of it is, is a different perspective on the political situation and the larger historical context. we talked about to the 2014 events and even the justice statement that was just said is massively exaggerated. and we know that there was a terrible conflict, and in the my done the way that in the end, the shooting came from the may dining surgeon themselves as a lot of evidence shown. so it's an absolutely appalling situation. but the key point is that sometimes you dangerous to use the language of different information

when it simply policy disagreements. and this goes back, not just approach, and it goes back to yeltsin, it goes back to the larger j political context of nato enlargement. right, so i'm not saying that the situation is absolutely appalling and not sympathy for the inhabitants. so if you thing but and also for gotcha which has been suffering for years of sanctions when the sanctions are, had a lot of them have been imposed to ensure that russia fulfilled the minced cause when it was obviously key. which had to take the initiative on them. and so that is unjust. and so i think we need to step back a bit from this language of disinformation, which has been going on for many years. so it's not just really no, it's worse than it has been before. let's listen to the serious arguments and i think both sides have exaggerated massive. let us call it well. an old fashioned word, cook again the ladder. i saw you shaking your head to some of what richard was saying

there, so it looks like you want to jump in again to go ahead. yes, thank you. first and former no country after the 2nd world war has changed international border. so we discussed your politics and humans develop critical, right. and i shouldn't. iteration does have a lot to explain and be held accountable for including the terrible tragedy of mh 17 that having been said, i believe the globally true has been be constructed completely. so of course everybody has the right to their perspective. everybody has the right to their opinion. at the end of the day, it is the responsibility of why people with integrity to know the truth and defendant human the political rights which have been codified after the atrocities of the 1st and 2nd world. this is very important. peter, us intelligence agencies have been de classifying information, saying that they believe that waterman would plans to invade ukraine. and then

they've been sharing it widely. if this strategy, because this does seem to be a pretty big change in strategy from the past. is this making it more difficult for bladder pollutant to just find invasion and visiting the munich security conference and i just stepped away from, ah, ukrainian luncheon. that is happening right now with the former dignitaries, former defense minister james matt. this general davis betray us, mitchell calling about the credit for administer just arrived and will be speaking . so there's a lot of talk about western unity in support of ukraine. and it seems like most, most folks are on board with joe by the strategy, which i'll tell you as just as a private person, it's been hard for me to be taking to be opening up new york times every morning and to see that an invasion is happening, it's going to happen any day now. now we're talking about these lists of people who will be disappear, putting in date. obviously this is part of the strategy whether wouldn't invades or

not. it's already working. i was working not only in ukraine and on ukrainian mines, but it's working on officials mind throughout the world. you know, so that that's what you call it, a credible threat. whether there is an invasion in mind that wouldn't have you cannot discount this as a, as an, as a, as a possibility. even though by all accounts, it seems like it will be suicidal step for what am i putting simply because he just won't be able to. he'll be able to invade a part of the grant territory. will he be able to occupied for a long period of time? that's a much harder question. and let me just very briefly respond to the previous speaker . we mentioned minsk agreements and it will mention that both sides have sinned when comes to do formation. let me just ask maybe a rhetoric of which may be a direct question to him. does he really believe what's happening in the east of ukraine with the shelling of civilian population so that ukraine as, as, as quick as the kremlin claims that ukraine is now doing this, after having a 100,

almost 200000 russian troops on the borders, does he really believe that ukraine is attacking that is this information in action that is the false flag operation in will do that bite and that the vitamin the space administration has been warding about? we're seeing it in real time. richard. that's a direct question to you from peter. so i'm going to let you go ahead and respond. we're going to go back a couple of steps. ladder said they're not to the overall sentiment that we have to base your analysis on fact. but the question at the moment in this intense war phase on all sides has led to the distortion of facts, borders have changed. we've seen it with kosovo. we said it would go or were saying it was a whole stack of other elements not to justify or simply just say that to the borders have been changed. and it's a polling because they 945 system precisely try to avoid forced and non consensual moving of borders as well. 17,

it's an absolute tragedy. but always suggesting that they went out that day, the insurgents to shoot guns, a civilian airliner. obviously not the i was there as an intensive, intensifying war. we know that there were the geneva accords of april 2014, which you can walk away from. there was a deal on the table which could have avoided all of us. and yet they failed to achieve and to talk to their own people in the don't bass. they failed to talk to their own citizens in the don bass, which could have avoided this appalling conflict. and as for the shelling, now, we know that for years they've been mutual shilling on both sides. that the next case on the front line at the moment is you out on the front line and citizens and civilians have been under selling and firing and sniper text for years. and we had to sort it out. and the failure of germany in france, in particular, to put pressure on kids to fulfill what we're talking about very basic normal thing,

which is the level of dilution. it can happen initially. it can happen in spain. it can happen in canada for some reason. we give, you can apos when we could have found a diplomatic solution. and so we end up with this appalling situation where you had why didn't a way to figure up 200000 but far too many forces on the side, we have 130000 you canyon troops. also i'm facing against they don't, don't richard. so we'll intentionally richard, i'm sorry to interrupt you but, but, but lot wants to jump in, go ahead. i think it really would be nice of you to answer the question that you were asked. and actually every country has the right to have an army. and the fact that ukraine has won and is defending it, is actually something that every single country should be doing not surrounding foreign countries and threatening them with cyber attacks like attack, killing

a production, please answer the question that our co person has asked you. i would, i'm also very curious to hear how you will answer it. richard, did you want to respond to that? well, to the specific question. yes, i do believe at the moment that there's shelling, which has been taking place, that there has been mis attribution. but that my point is that later you must understand the context, which is the fact that our best a, our ukranian citizens, of course, now $700000.00 have russian passports. but i'm astonished at care has not been able to talk to its own people. it wants these parts back, it wants these 2 parts of these 2 are blessed back, and yet they refuse to talk to their own people. citizens whom they claim are their own. it's a, it's a, it's been a dead end. and so clearly at the moment, we're in a moment of extraordinary war fever. so there's, there's information and lies going on. and as for forces being allowed to mobilize,

rush, of course, apart from those in, in the villages are on their own territory. and can i just mentioned one other thing about the munich security conference, richard richard, let me, let me, let me, let me let you get to that point in a bit because we are starting to run out of time. and i do want to ask peter a question here, peter, from your perspective, is it counterproductive for the us and for nato to continue to state that they believe that an invasion is imminent? i mean, is that helped or has that hurt? listen, once again where and then chartered waters and even washington will admit that this sort of sort of megaphone diplomacy that they've been gauged. it has not been tried to that same extent before all the history will judge in the next few days, weeks, months. we will know might take, is that, you know, we're probably still not looking at a full country innovation simply because goodness, probably, and capable of doing it right now. it's going to come with

a very high cost. we are in for the long haul, for as long as you wouldn't isn't power, you will not be at peace with an independent ukraine. you have to understand that. so when, while while i say that about the traditional policy, i will say that there is a, there needs to be a note of caution, insert it into the sanctions policy into something. but few on the hill, donald trump's former security advisor said that, you know, when it comes to the sanctions policy, whether signaling that st. joe's or coming, regardless of what he does, may backfire simply because russians will thing. well, we have nothing that was let go had so there needs to be some note of caution. there is, i'm seeing a somewhat optimistic sign that, that mr. lab rolls and, and blinking are supposed to meet on the 24th of february. so the hope is that nothing will happen before then and for as long as diplomats are talking, the guns are staying silent. let me just want one more minute just to me for once again. it was the previous speaker said when the continuous harping on the she was

given, the credit card has refused and again to speak with ostensible people of the boss. there are no people of the box to speak with. these are the regimes that, that are controlled directly from moscow. and the part of the strategy is to push this mince agreement down ukraine roads, which will be the same. it will tend to tantamount to you can skip the capitulation through other less painful means for rush us short of an invasion means means ah, a stop to ukraine's aspirations are to have our independence warned policy to become a member of nato and to become a member of the you alada, let me ask you a similar question to what i just asked peter, from your perspective, are there inherent risks to this campaign by the us, by nato, by other western countries? i mean, if these warnings about an imminent invasion, continue to grow more dire and an invasion does not happen. what does that do?

well, is discrediting b and states system at the end of the day. and i'm an international global level internally what it does to the citizens who are the victims of this type of diplomacy, or again, as you will, i is actually quite, quite heavy. people are exhausted, people are terrified. and actually the level of anti american rhetoric has been raising in the couple in the past few weeks, particularly, not only because of this and abundance of information and the addressing of which date it's going to happen, which is completely ridiculous. and also the, the, the perception that you train has been abandoned by its main western allies by them pulling out of kias by pulling out of this special monitoring mission of the

o. s. c. e. rather than really supporting and, and calling more expert into ukraine into key and the fact that they have pulled out and have no place themselves in view, not all of them but, but most western allies. i've either already moved to view or considering doing a so which again creates this perception. then it's going to be so much easier to kill the people in the city. and because we don't have our allies to protect us, they should have sent more eserman monitors, rather than pulling them out. richard, i know you had a point you wanted to finish making. i'll let you do that. but i also want to ask you, when it comes to the fact that the u. s. and that other western countries have been so public and sharing this intelligence that they have gathered. how unusual is that or? well, i mean, it's intelligence we know in negotiate business, the intelligence kept being fed out into the public domain. and we know as being

even admitted by some washington officials, that the media is complicit together with the internet. so calls information from the security services, which is as we saw with a alleged collusion between them and gotten in 2016, it turned out to be utterly false. and i'm not saying it's false. now, i'm simply saying it's part of this new method. so there's nothing particularly new about suddenly the anglo american use of an intelligent credit to the media to achieve a certain political effects. i. so the larger issue going to just very i some in scott, i think one of the previous speakers was very honest and saying that many scholars and implementable then a simple question emerges every 6 months. the european union has been smashing sanctions onto russia for its failure. to fulfillment, and now we have it quite openly, well, cave had no intention ever, and i understand the arguments by the way, why care wouldn't like to implement me quickly. it was

a forced solution and there's other issues involved. but at least, let's be honest, and i'm glad to head on this t emerging that when school is not going to be implemented fine, let's find some other format in which we can return, move on bus parts to your thing, and sort of in j while and showing that the issues within the don bus, you know that there's a fair solution in that society. so the municipality conference, the failure way, back in february 2017. exactly 15 years ago when put in, made that famous speech denouncing unipolar world and older guessed the fact that at that moment there was unity against him. and everybody was so proud that pushing to tend to do as a wedge between the partners and look, it's not a question of do i think so unity, this unit at the moment is the unity on the march fully. let's listen to the serious argue, and i absolutely with the previous speaker, the diplomatic process is continuing with the meeting. hope the end of next week.

peter, we just have about a minute 30 seconds. let me just ask you when it comes to the pro kremlin dis, information machine. how does the domestic disinformation operation differ from the foreign media operation? if you're asking about ukraine, right? yes. ok, well you know, so far, i mean with what we've actually seen has been a sort of tension between ukraine, the cranium, central government, and the american administration. the bye bye of the by the white house, the like, me wouldn't, has been at a and still actually keep ukrainians. com and up to till now even now that tensions have risen. but there's much more concern now including on the streets of ukrainian cities. the government, the ministry of defense continues, insisting that they're not seeing signs of an imminent invasion, let alone all by occupation of the entire country. so there's a little bit of attention that the viewers should be aware about. all right,

well we have run out of time to we're going to have to leave the conversation there . thanks so much. all of our guest letter, ros litski, richard soccer and peter on my of and thank you to for watching. because see the program again. any time visiting our website, al jazeera dot com, and for further discussion, go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story. you can also during the conversation on twitter, our handle is and a j inside story. for me, my how much i'm doing the whole team here. bye for now. ah and

oh stories of life and inspiration ah. oh. a series of short document trees from around the world that celebrate the human spirit against the ok. ah . out is there a select express himself? revisit drying out greasing land is shrinking in some roots long used by wildlife or migration. have been blocked by human settlements. to deal with all this, kenya needs more money for conservation. and with a corona virus pandemic keeping many visitors awake revenue from tours im isn't enough here at the obviously national talk an annual ceremony has been launched. how precious than individuals pay $5000.00. yes. dollars to name an elephant. the

aim this year is to raise $1000000.00, much of it for conservation initiatives, from international politics to the global pandemic. and everything in between. it did not respect poor people and pure our planet promised to ensure the safety of women. what does the 15th, i'm told by that people actually have more field? why is the u. k, so hostile to transfer the mysteries? all of us join me if i take on the live dismantled misconceptions and the meet the contradiction. carmen get up front on al jazeera. i've worked out their english since it's lordship, as a principal presenter and as a correspondence with any breaking the story we want to hear from those people who would normally not get that voices heard on an international news channel. one moment i'll be very proud of was when we covered the napoleon quake of 2050,

a terrible natural disaster on the story that needs to be told from the hall of the affected area to be then to tell the people story was very important at the time ah hello on has some secret in doha. the top stories on agile at the u. s. has, again warned, russia could launch an attack against ukraine at any time. president biden will convene a national security meeting on sunday to discuss the crisis. ukraine says russia back separatists have opened fire on more than 30 settlements in the east. he have found the separatist forces, have accused each other of provocative actions, european monitoring agency. our c says it's recorded almost 2000 cease fire violations on.