hey, am i speaking? yeah, yeah, jose ready but not every state in australia is welcoming arrivals. western australia has been closed to both international travelers and had quarantine restrictions in place for vaccinated australian susan's the most of the pandemic. it will eventually open its borders in march or sera clock out 0 brisbin, australia. ah, this is out there are these, you top stories, presidents, joe biden, and blood mare, putin have accepted in principle to hold a summit over ukraine. the kremlin says there no concrete plans for meeting just yet doughty jabari has the latest from moscow. according to the kremlin spokesperson, dmitri pascal, nothing is confirmed. nothing has been set in stone. nothing concrete has been agreed to from the russian side. i think it's important to point out that following

nearly 3, our phone conversation between letterman and the french president, emanuel micron, very late last night here, the russian president made it very clear that he's always been open to the idea of meeting his us counterpart. us president joe biden, but i think the important point is that flattery wants to talk about specific security guarantees that he's looking for from the american iran president is on his 1st official visit to a golf state. abraham, where he is just find a number of agreements with counselors, a mere shake to mean ben. how much connie, why he's also attending a regional gas conference that he hopes will boost political and trade relations. i've got no harm, at least probably look, i need to move. our talks have dealt with bilateral, important matters. this includes economy, investment, energy, and tourism, which will help boost relations between the 2 countries. it's my pleasure to sign a number of agreements and memoranda of understanding with iran. this is quite

important and we need to follow up the implementation of these. you also spoke about regional issues, international issues that are of interest for both countries. an issue, the stability and security of the region ought to be reaffirm the dialogue is the best way to sort out all the problems and to face all the challenges in the region around foreign ministry says, talks in vienna to revive the nuclear dale have made significant progress back of you of some european diplomats like rain in argentina is getting some hope to finally find this who've been battling for weeks to contain, while far as the fans are 10 percent of the land and cor inches providence in the northeast. the font. so we'll say threatening while life across argentina is not just wetland. okay, there's the headlines. nice continues. heron out there out inside story. stay with us. ah.

they were supposed to stop conflict in eastern ukraine, but the men's agreements have been repeatedly violated since 2015 with the threat of a russian invasion and the accord still provide a path to peace. this is inside story. ah hello and welcome to the program. i'm a gym, jerome, political leaders and diplomats say they're working hard to prevent a russian invasion of ukraine. the so called misc agreements keep coming up in their discussions. they were signed in belarus to try and secure

a ceasefire between ukrainian government forces and russian backed separatists in eastern ukraine. the 1st version and 2014 failed to take hold. so a 2nd, the court called minsk, too, was signed the following year. but both sides accuse each other of breaking the agreement. at least 14000 people had been killed in fighting during the past 8 years. monitors from the organization for security and cooperation in europe or o s. c, e have reported hundreds of cease fire violations a day. despite this many diplomats insist the minsk agreements are the only way forward, secure peace. the minced agreements remain the only framework endorsed by his council and resolution 2020 at 220. 2, for a negotiated peaceful settlement of the conflict and eastern ukraine, gave me phony mister foolishly kiss doesn't comply with the mince agreements, refuses to establish a direct dialogue with the nets and low hands undermines the agreements to

introduce changes in the constitution and exclusive statute on bass, local elections and the amnesty all key issues of the minsk agreements showed them was law regarding the possible recognition of the so called don yeske. and the hans people's republics of the russian, duma of a let remind once again of the ukrainian position which has never changed. if recognition is approved, russia will exit the means, que agreements, defacto. and according to the laura's well, with all the consequences to come to the men's 2 agreement contained 13 points. 9 are designed to end the armed conflict and ukraine, while the other for address the political impasse between kev and the pro russia rebels. the agreement calls for the removal of heavy weapons hostage exchanges release the political prisoners and the pull out of all foreign armed groups. it also sets a road map for political dialogue. this includes giving the donnie, etc,

and lou haskell regions. some devolved powers and holding elections there. but russia once special status for the regions before returning the border to keep control. russia maintains it was only a facilitator and not part of the conflict inside ukraine. so it is not bound by the terms of the agreement. ah, all right, let's bring in our guests in moscow, andre court to north director general of the russian international affairs council in kiff me. hi lo, winette ski associate professor of sociology at national university of keg. he have more he law academy in istanbul. matthew brides, a senior fellow at the atlanta council and former national security council official at the white house. a warm welcome to you all and thanks so much for joining us today on inside story. me. hi lo, let me start with you. why haven't the minsk agreements worked and what are the

problems inherent in them? well, there is one very simple thing that is in the midst agreements that was agreed to in the 1st mexican 2nd meant that russian troops must lea, ukrainian soil. simple as that until such time as russian troops have not left ukrainian soil, there is very little to talk about with respect to men. there's a requirement for a local election. there's a requirement for changing the constitution better. but none of that can be done until such time as that territory is occupied by russia forces. and today to talk about mens, cuz quite frankly, completely ludicrous. because we have almost $200000.00 troops on our borders expected to be invading the rest of ukraine anytime soon. so i mean quite frankly mens is well effectively dead and and it was put, it was basically killed by the kremlin bite. not when, when basically both decided to ignore the basics of the,

of the agreement and that was to withdraw russian troops at andre bye, by most accounts. the minsk agreements essentially were dead on arrival. they have not worked from your perspective, can they be reworked? can they be modified in a way that the process would work going forward? and if so, how? well, i think that turner least equally we should probably focus so on the so called military package within them is could clements which implies the 1st 2 or 3 points of the agreement signed us 7 years ago, festivals, table and de verifiable cease fire. a 2nd was the roll of heavy weapons and 2 of those tanks in oil c, monitor emissions in don boss. if they're able to comply with the 1st 3 points of the miss grims that would already be event a significant progress. later on we can move her to the political agenda,

we sure will probably have to be modified. oh, or are dated. but of course that would require a consent of all those who signed the new agreements. matthew, there are a lot of diplomats right now that are saying the mens agreements are really the only path forward when it comes to trying to de escalate this crisis when it comes to the united states. they've had very little involvement in this process. how much can the us get involved now? will probably can't get involved directly in the mince group negotiations because at least russia, france, and germany who are the ones that kind of, you know, where the, where the leaders along with ukraine are the participants. they don't want us to participate. i think ukraine would love the u. s. to be involved in the negotiations, but there's not a direct role for the united states. but of course, there's a huge indirect role for the united states. first and foremost by rallying nato.

and maintaining a solidarity right now in an attempt to deter further russian use of military force against ukraine. and it's important to know that this threat by russia to use force is negotiating tactic. it may be, or a genuine threat to re invade ukraine as well. but it's negotiate, it's a piece of negotiating. leverage are very important piece. the goal, however, of russia i think, is not really to get to minsk agreements finalized. but of course rushes objectives, as articulated by president, putin are much broader than the men agreement. and they all have to do with pushing back nato into its pre 1997 borders and carlo it looked earlier like you wanted to jump in. i'm going to let you do that. but i also want to ask you, are officials in kiev worried that the west is going to try to use this russian threat to strong arm ukraine into accepting moscow's version of the men sc agreements? ok, well i want to say 3 things that i'm going to be very brief about. first of all, people in ukraine are an official than ukraine are worried about being invaded the

west at the moment, helping us. and we are very grateful for the military economic and political aid, the medicaid that is being provided. and quite frankly, one of the reasons that we can has not invaded the country on mass yet has to do with the fact that there is western support. so quite frankly, we're not concerned about the west somehow leading us drive this made agreement at the end of the day, everybody's working towards avoiding a further invasion. my. the other thing that i wanted to stay with my american colleagues, frankly, that the, the goal is to try to stop nato with cetera, which it has made it very clear what you want. the whole nato thing is, quite frankly, just, i mean, it's a diversion at the end of the day. put, you want to control ukraine. would you want to re, re establish greater russia? he is the gatherer of the russian land. this is what he's about. and ukraine is

something that is an absolute requirement trasky 100 years ago said russia cannot exist without ukraine. and that is something that is continued to be something that is in the russian mind and the rational political agenda for the last 30 years. and quite frankly, today is for now is the time according to we can do, try to make that dream a reality. finally, with respect to the main agreement, we need to understand that these agreements were signed when working with holding a gun. ukraine head. the 1st agreement was signed after he bar after he was bombarding where you both. the 2nd agreement was signed after there was, there were russian troops on the ground in ukraine, in a place called developable. in both cases, the goal was to create a cease fire that cease fire has held basically plus or minus held for the last 5 or 6 years, there's been a line of contact and that line of contact that i've had minimal firing across,

shooting on either side during the last day, we have over 100 seat fire violations and those, these fire violations of all come from the russian. by the end of the day, ukraine's demand and very simple russians get out of our territory. matthew, you were reacting there to some of what jaila was saying, i'm going to let you jump in. yeah, no, i totally agree. i mean, i agree with everything that we highlight said, and you know, of course ukraine is the immediate, huge focus that we put in trying to do. but there is this broader geo strategic objective as well when, who talks about the desire for a whole new european security architecture, which, which i think is, is going to end up being a proposal, the dead on arrival. but as far as the bolts of it goes, that's a very important example. immediately after means to assign russians mounted a major assault on the baltimore in total violation of the 1st aspect of the minster. second agreement, which was the cease fire,

as well as the 1st minister game, which was a cease fire. so from the beginning, russia has not observed them in sc agreements and the contrary. as me. hi lou said it has kept its military forces in ukraine. honest territory, even if it denies that there, there, it has allowed the illegal arm formations of the don't ask, are region to remain in place. those were supposed to be disbanded. and har from moving heavy military equipment out of don't boss. russia has matched up 290000 troops with heavy equipment near the border. so when russia demands that ukraine comes into compliance with uminski agreements, well a it's, it's not in compliance and be if it's threat to use military force is supposedly to bring ukraine into compliance. well, then it's doesn't make any sense that russia still claims not to be a party to those agreements or the conference. why would you threaten to invade a country to enforce an agreement that you claim you're not a party of andre? earlier this month,

there were talks between ukrainian and russian officials in the normandy format, but they really failed to make a break through correct. those are right. that's right. there was disappoint. but this pressed by mr. cause who is a special envoy of president boot and he argued that you failed to get any flexibility on the premium side in terms of the pain in compliance with agreements . and do you think that there will be further talks going forward? well i think the eve, fer, indeed does the diplomatic botha is something that they would prefer in the cram than these is the only way to go. it seems delta, my co panelists are from the united states and ukraine are know, much better than i do. what we can really wants and what he is up to. unfortunately, i don't have such a great context in clarendon to make sure that the invasion is eminent and that is

likely to happen anytime soon. however, i would suggest that it's not really logical for who tim to launch a major military operation in ukraine. it's a lot that russia can lose, or it's not much that russia can gain. i think it's in the interests of the camden to preserve the passion ukraine, and to insist on the full compliance of the music agreements as they were signed 7 years ago. i think that this is the ultimate goal because of the, our compliance with uminski agreements ultimately and my data center and all stickle ah, may be a strategic obstacle on that. you can join in the nato alliance and lisa cy kinds, i think that this is the goal that brewton is trying to accomplish. if he is able to prevent you cleaned joining nato through other means they're probably he would

demonstrate more flexibility on the implications of the means. cucumbers, mckayla, i can see that you want to jump in before you do. i just also want to ask you, do you think that there are going to be more normandy format talks coming forward, and even if there were some type of agreement as that were reached. do you think that president lensky would actually be able to push this kind of deal through parliament in ukraine? look, i want to react. first of all, what? my colleague morrison colleagues said, very simple. we don't have information as to whether or not there will be any minute invasion. all we know is there a 190000 troops on our borders and those 190000 groups are not exactly depends. most of them are what's called italian tactical groups. those are attack forces, 1st of all, secondly, i read the kremlin website, i listen to what it says and put in specifically has said and the website, if you want to in july published his musings on the history of ukraine and russia

and how we are supposedly one people come up many, many times and said that he does not recognize the grains right to exist as a separate country. i am a ukranian. i would like to exist. i believe that it leaves us very little room for negotiation when someone is invading you and says that you have no right to exist and you are defending yourself and you are saying i have a right to exist. what is there to negotiate about? it's very much it to be or not to be a type of scenario. there's very little to negotiate now. yes, we are of course, interested in having a normal the format or us for my president soleski has said that he would be very happy to bring in president ever gone from from turkey into this into this situation. he has stated yesterday and you know that he would love to meet with you and we can not interested in meeting with him is interested in destroying at the end of the day. ukrainians are preparing to defend themselves. there's very little

to talk about at that point when you are at the gun point, that is the reality of the moment you can, you is, and i will not say evacuating, but certainly very, very concerned, particularly after president biden statement of the fact that you have already made his decision, we have seen maps, we are seen troops trip build ups, and we have what president would you say? and unfortunately, none of that makes us particularly confidence in the prospects for peace. matthew, what do you think you think there's going to be more of these normandy format talks going forward and even if there are, and even if there is some type of agreement that has reached, do you think that it will hold? well, i don't anticipate enormity format discussion until the current extreme high level of tension decreases. and you know what, what we're seeing right now in eastern ukraine is exactly what we saw in georgia in august 2008. when there are supposedly,

were peacekeepers on the ground from russia, but there were separatists who opened fire on georgian military positions. this is happening in eastern ukraine as well. right now. ukrainian leadership is withholding counter strikes the georgia government did for awhile, but then it did retaliate and that prompted a full scale russian invasion of georgia. so i think this is exactly what president putin is trying to provoke. again, he's talked about a military technological response. if his demands are not met, but not an invasion. so what he's going to do is say, well the ukrainians thought back we didn't invade, we were defending that we were defending against their assault on the shepherdess troops. so until that clears until that crisis moment clears, it's an academic exercise to talk about more normandy format discussions. and again, russia claims it's not a party to the minister agreements. then why in the world would it's threaten and it's threatening invasion to kill tens of thousands of people. civilians,

for the implementation of an obscure agreement to which acquainted is not a party. it just the story does not hold together. but before we can get back to normandy, got to get past this moment of high military tension. and matthew, i guess one of the concerns would be that president putin is using the men sc agreements as a political tool. this must be something that western countries are very worried about, right. i hope they are. i mean, you, in a lot of discussions, i listen to and have been involved with your european se, told, try to hold ukraine, speak to the fire and say, you know, if, if you don't implement the mask agreements then, well, then suggesting, perhaps russia has a justification to try to force implementation and that's a total red herring. moscow does not care about the minsk agreement. so i hope i hope that throughout the nato alliance, european leaders do recognize mohammed just what you said. that the minister agreement, really, again, the focus on it now is a red herring. what russia is about now is yes,

is mikayla's said destabilizing ukraine, preventing ukraine from ever joining nato. and i stand by what i said before, also re litigated the post cold war security framework to which russia agreed. by the way it agreed in 1994. in the budapest memorandum to support ukraine's territorial integrity and sovereignty ukraine gave up. it's nuclear weapons. ukraine lived up to its end of the bargain. russia has violated as deeply as you could. andre, the fact that the minsk agreements are not legally binding. how much does that complicate this all? well i think the, the to might open where is avenues of for the rational id is shipper in don barza, for instance, a given the current escalation or i'd love to exclude a diplomatic reza, recognition of the breakout of objects or by russia. and that would be, of course, a game changer that would indeed make this situation is to can somewhat similar to what happened in georgia,

beck and the $2.00 oh $8.00. and then i think of the mean square agreements will collapse. i don't think that the probability is very high, but i do not exclude that. because in my view, the state duma would have never advanced such an idea if they had not received a nod from the cabinet. so right now, i think this is probably more likely challenger to the music agreements are than an invasion of russia across the board with ukraine. at least that's how i see the situation to day. and for me are the most immediate task is to preserve them means could get a months to award a diplomatic or combination of their breakable republics and to get back to the negotiating table. i don't think that we have other plausible options to reach any progress in de escalate and the situation and the halo. i'm curious to get your perspective on one thing and most people say that the men's agreements have

essentially been a failure from the outset. have there been any successes that have come from them? well look, there was an attempt to, to push to parliament, some changes to, to, to the grain constitution. those failed. but we do have one of the requirements, the political requirements, the minister agreement was to provide in parliament a law special law that provided more economy for those areas that are currently occupied. should one of the, one of the presumption of that law for it to go go forward was for the occupation to end. in other words, russian troops leave. and then these areas become integrated into the rest of the grain as autonomy, regions with their own police forces with their own judiciary. in other words, significant amounts of autonomy. those steps were made. however,

at the end of the day, the military requirements of a full fire and withdrawal of russian troops have never happened. and as a matter of fact, what we're seeing now is a further escalation and further advancement of rush and forces onto grant or adorable integrity. i do want to say that, you know, we're all hoping for peace. we're all hoping for some sort of a resolution to this. but at the end of the day, when president biden comes out and says that the decision has been made and put, it has made his decision. and the u. s. best that the decision to move in by russian forces has been made. that makes it very, very difficult to even dream about any kind of a peaceful solution. at the moment we're looking for de escalation, mikaela, you mentioned the hope for a peaceful solution. if there is a peaceful resolution to all that's going on right now, would there be any appetite in ukraine for uminski base settlement? look, i'm not sure that it needs to be mid space. it could be any other to the other city

if you like, but the reality is that yes, grants are interested in a settlement. having said that, we are interested in also de escalation on our borders. we are not interested in having rushing cruise on our borders. constantly, secondly, the dunbar crisis and the fact that there is an occupation in eastern grades should not be separated from the fact that there is an illegal annexation of crimea that has happened. and crimea has officially been now supposedly transferred to the russian federation. well, that's problematic as well. so russia and taken over 7 percent of our territory and continues to be threatening to take more. so looking at peaceful solutions, of course. but at the end of the day, i think ukrainians understand today that the existential threats that russia presents to ukraine is long term. and we will have to deal with that long term. it's not something that's going to go away tomorrow for as long as the pushing

regime remains in the ground. all right, well, we have run out of time, so we're going to have to leave our conversation there. thank you so much. all of our guests. andre cartoon of me hi, low, the net sky, and matthew bryce, and thank you to for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website al jazeera dot com, and for further discussion, go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story. you can also join the conversation on twitter. our handle is at a inside story from him, how much i'm job a whole team here. bye for now. the ah. and a on counting the cost of red hot

oil market is wary consumers will prices keep going up looking east. russia finds a new gas and oil deal with china. what fun put in mind and as stalks clayton, silicon valley, our google shares becoming more affordable. counting the cost on al jazeera, compelling, we keeping our distance because it's actually quite dangerous. ambulances continued to arrive at the speed of the explosion in spite, i still don't feel like i actually know enough about living under fascism was like, unequal to broadcasting. some nelson have been on august 9th news for a happy al jazeera english proud recipient of the new york festivals broadcaster of the year reward for the 5th year running. when the news breaks, the kremlin says that if the united states were to impose sanctions on president important,

it will be comparable to severing ties with russia. and the story builds, we want to find out more about how offers have been taken from the wild and sold with exclusive interviews. and in depth reports, al jazeera has teams on the ground. there hasn't been a train running by for almost 2 decades to bring you more award winning documentaries and live news. the roper hotel is the most talent that i've ever stated, and i'm the biggest box you have ever seen. how does explode taken out the hotel? this was germany, we loved it when it was built and we even when it was a major town it or the conflict in northern ireland in the late 20th century belfast, you wrote a new episode of war hotels on just 0. ah

ah ah . 1200, i was gmc here on al jazeera, come all santa maria with a look at the headlines and presidents joe biden. and vladimir putin have accepted in principle to hold a summit over ukraine. but the criminal says there are no concrete plans for any meeting. just yes, the amount of the potential diplomatic breakthrough was made by france, the white house, his job by them will only participate. i refresh it, doesn't it? vate, ukraine dos jabari with more now for moscow. the important point is that vladimir putin wants to talk about specific.