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tv   Inside Story  Al Jazeera  February 23, 2022 10:30am-11:01am AST

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multi cultural environment, but there are no national laws specifically protecting people against religious discrimination. if they raised in concern, i feel that their rights of being undermined on the religious rights and it's something we should take seriously. the religious discrimination bill may be shelf for now. there's some fights, a hoping that federal parliament will revive it, but given the contentious nature of the debate, that's unlikely to happen any time soon. and a federal election is expected by may this year. sarah, clock out 0 brisbin, australia. ah, this is out there, and these are the top towards the u. s. is opposing new sanctions on russia. cutting off 2 major institutions from western financing. the move comes off to president vladimir putin recognized the independence of 2 set protest held areas of eastern ukraine. the you, i think trip state has cancel the meeting this week with roches foreign minister,
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sir guy, lad, rav, and nip. lincoln says, it makes no sense to whole talk. since russia had started an invasion of ukraine, president putin's deeply disturbing speech yesterday. and his statements to day may clear the world how he views ukraine, not as a sovereign nation with the right to territorial integrity and independence, but rather as a creation of russia and therefore subordinate to russia. it's a completely false assertion that ignores history international law and the 10s of millions of patriotic ukrainians who are proud citizens of a free and independent ukraine. fires fueled by an unprecedented drought have ravaged hundreds of thousands of hectares and ne, in argentina. 15 separate blazes have destroyed farms, pastures and wild life. hundreds of undocumented migrants of class with the national guard and the southern mexican city of pen trula. mostly from haiti of
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africa, they have a demonstrating in front of the national migration institute for almost a month. the demanding their documents be processed so that they can safely enter the us. the syrian military says israel has launched a number of missiles on positions in its border province of connector. the attack was launched from the israeli occupied called on high, nor any calls will be described as material damage or be long queues. the few inter lanka, the government, is running low on foreign currency which is needed to enforce their shortage. is it many pumps? the state owned oil company can get loans to buy more fuel because it's already 3 and a half $1000000000.00 in debt. the fuel shortage is also crippling the power grid, and this is leading to rolling blackouts. those headlines. i'll have more new. see here on al jazeera right off the inside story. we'll see shortly. bye bye. mm.
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ah. but russia deployed troops to easton ukraine after recognizing the independence of breakaway territories. live in a person, also questioning ukraine statehood. is it a prelude for why there are conflict? what impact western sanctions have? this is inside story. ah, ah. hello and welcome to the show. i'm sammy's a than russian president vladimir putin has sent troops into ukraine. that came after he recognised the independence of 2 self declared republics in breakaway
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regions and western countries of accused moscow of taking a step towards a full blown invasion, began the process of imposing sanctions. putin questioned ukraine's right to sovereignty and said, russian troops will be there for peacekeeping purposes. should turn your mom, but i consider it necessary to make a long overdue decision to immediately recognize the independence and sovereignty of the people's republic and de la hans people's republic. i asked the federal assembly of the russian federation to support this decision and then to ratify the treaty of friendship and mutual assistance with both republics. mostly pretty much . it is also essential to understand that ukraine has never had a tradition for genuine statehood. and since 1991, it has taken the path of mechanical copying of foreign models torn off both from history and from ukrainian realities. political and state institutions were constantly wishing to suit the rapidly formed clans with their selfish interests
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that had nothing to do with the interests of the people of ukraine. the whole point of the so called pro western centralized choice of ukraine's oligarch power was and is not to create the well being of the people. but you obsequious, they provide services to russians. geopolitical rivals were saving billions of dollars stolen from ukrainians and hidden by oligarchs in a western bank account. and right after the announcement, the western world began reacting us. president joe biden made a statement through twitter saying, i have signed an executive order to deny rush of the chance to profit from its place and violations of international law. we are continuing to closely consult with allies and partners, including ukraine on next steps. from the west and leaders also warned to turn against annexation after his announcement. it is an ex ation. it will be sanctions
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any of the reason recognition. i will put the sanction on the table and the ministers will decide keep in mind, which is the process of sanctions. according with the treaty, sanctions are being approved by the following. a 1st minister's con, show like unanimity. this is plainly in breach of international law. it's a violation of flagrant violation of the sovereignty, the integrity of the, of ukraine. ah, it is a repudiation of the of the minks process in the mix agreements. and i think it's a very ill omen on the very doc sign. and it certainly does not seem to me that it's, it's certainly an indication yet another indication that things are moving in the wrong direction in ukraine or the u. k. will continue to do everything we can to
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stand by the people of, of ukraine. ah, with a very robust package of sanctions, as you know what i can tell you. oh, and reiterate our position which let the united nations fully support the independent sovereignty and territorial integrity of ukraine within its internationally recognized borders as stated very clearly in a relevant general assembly resolutions. and again, we would encourage everyone involved a, to refrain from many unilateral decision or unilateral action, so that could undermine the territorial integrity of ukraine. and the implementation of the minsk agreements i think is endorsed by security council. and with regards to the status of don, it's andrew hans ah,
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let's bring our guests into the show. now we have joining us from moscow in russia, pavel folk, and how he's a defense and military analyst to know via get better in brussels. theresa fallon is director at the center for russia, europe, asia studies, and in kev peters and my f. he's executive director at the eurasia democracy initiative. welcome to will. let me start then with peter. is this a prelude to a wider invasion? what's the view from kiev? while it seems that vitamin wouldn't, has prepared the ground, said that with his decision to recognize these so called the peoples republic of law school, the gnats, and the essentially unilateral condition of the mill agreement. he have untied his hands, the, you know, the puppet states now are claiming that they want to to have the rest of the territory, which is still under ukrainian control. and that is like 2 thirds still occupied by
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putting henchmen. that means, you know, russia through its public states has much further into ukraine's territory to go and let him. and if not planning to do that, he's definitely made it very possible for himself in the next 2 days to try to re conquered that rhetoric and still, you know, recurring plausible as few things deny that he is involved. like what he did with crye b and the so called green man. this would be a sort of help of the dairy kind of brotherly assistance to the brother leaf, stateless of the next few could even and try to invoke other nations from the former soviet republics. to a members of the collective security treaty organization to make it look like an international piece action by continuing to claim that russia ukraine,
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is the one that has been attacking the don boss. this is interesting. you mentioned that the green men, pavel in moscow, russia has long been accused of having its soldiers in don't the exc, and luc dance the so called little of the so called green men. you know, that without official insignia. does it make a huge difference? now that russia is recognizing and officially announcing that it's putting troops there. oh yes, i mean, the 1st time the green man appeared that was in crimea. because 1st, russia was saying that the user woke will be bull kind of now rebelling against the government or the non government and key f, then force of was said, officially, these are russian troops. and russia has never up to now acknowledged that there are russian service men in the dung boss. the old there were said that these are may be volunteers who took her a recess from active service and went there as volunteers. but now we have
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a thought to a different situation. this would be russian officials or soldiers, though the raft reports coming out in moscow are the brush will not right now. move its troops into bennett school ganske though there are the reports that there, there has doing it. but anyways, if they freighting on the line of control continues even small skirmishes. and if it gets in, the russian forces get involved, actually wiggly. and if there's going to be room boards and the russians stay there, t v about rush young russian soldiers being killed by or wounded by ukrainians. that's already approved for a direct line of cranium. rush and war that can asco, 8 into it know, up rush, ukrainian war, which conferred the actual escalate into the european war. and so it's
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a very slippery slope we are right now on and of course are put your has also said yesterday that ukraine will become natal member with no matter what the western powers right now say, and the else and so that so, so kind of mean and factions will be impulse that anyway, so he was actually digging his he is in and saying that rash will take action. and now it's clear that how it might happen, though, of course, may be, that's not happening now. and right. and there's going to be se fire again imposed in the done bus. but we'll have to see what's happening in the next several days. i wonder if we're already getting a hint of what you are talking about puzzle. let me take this point to teresa. was it telling when we heard the russian president warned that any further regression as he put it from kiev will cause bloodshed, bloodshed, which kiev will be responsible for, is that perhaps an indication of the sort of scenario puzzle was just talking about
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russian casualties could lead to a bigger, you know, wider invasion. this is a very serious situation that we're in the speech yesterday by president. pretend the 65 minute long diatribe has been at many hours. have said it's a declaration of war. and so we've seen the bite in administration trying to identify these false leg activities for the last few days. and it seemed that put in just decided to go ahead with this, even though that the idea of 5 ukrainian soldiers passing into russia most people had said that that was a false flag and an excuse for russia to take these actions. so i think that they are trying to frame it there, preparing the russian public for possible war, possible people coming home in body bags. and as we know that as the evacuate women and children from the region, the men are staying because they're expected to to fight. so i think that with
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190000 troops surrounding ukraine, i think that it might be more than just declaring the hands and don't ask sovereign . and the other thing that's a bit unclear right now is that how much of that area is it just what's occupied now by russian proxies or will it be the entire region? and so i think that the kremlin is almost deliberately keeping that unclear because at this point, no one really knows. that's the big question mark over everyone. and that will have an effect on the type of sanctions that both the europeans are willing to impose. and it's interesting to note that just short as your presentation noted, the u. k, which is no breaks of it from the rest of europe, is trying to lead the charge here. and they've already announced sanctions. but the 1st set of sanctions on 5 banks and 3 russian entity people. so i think that they're trying to lead the charge and the europeans may be
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a bit divided on this. but we've also seen a clear message from german chancellor shots that north through 2 will be suspended the rush gas pipeline to germany. right. there's a lot for us to pick up, especially when it comes on sanctions. but before we go down there, i want to ask peter and kim peter, i can see your angling together and let me allow you to get in with a comment for i pose the question to you then? well yeah, i just want to say, you know, as far as the sanctions, i mean we will, we'll talk more in depth about it. i did want to mention that it's very notable the german chancellor finally, who up till now was reluctant to even need and allude to north street to buy by name. finally, put his where his mouth was and stated on the biggest lead north stream to has been holding. this is very important, odd. this is a trouble in developing for vitamin wooden europe. if you decide to act as
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a unified question, front against plasma put, and it's going to make it much more complicated. it's a sort of game of chicken that wouldn't, isn't involved in aware the both sides. i tried to see who's worked 1st as they're careening down the highway towards each other. all right, let me take them this point to puzzle and in moscow futon could have done this step a long time ago. months ago, perhaps even years ago, is this really part of a careful strategy on the part of the russian president to slowly turn the heat up on the west? because he's, his goal is to get his demands, match more than getting himself enrolled in a wider invasion of ukraine. what do you think puzzle? well, it's not really slow. the events began happening last december and they are developing very swiftly towards pos world war actually is an
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issue in then if we take what happened with crimea, that was quite quick when, when putin decided he wants to go in and take it heritage, you know, people literally woke up and their rush was that wasn't this month's of a stand off in demand the meetings in negotiations and back and forth. was the fleming. because right now we're not of course in a different situation than then and the road. the rush a why right now russia has put the demands so drastically for oil and that, and is a kind of demand the that to give us worthwhile waste. but one door will take it by force. i. again, that's not totally clear why right now puts and believes that he so is so emboldened or he doesn't have the and clinical support of the russian population. the people are scared of a possible war. he doesn't even have be unequivocal support of the entire russian
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a week and a half years. actually, people in the kremlin and his administration fully many have apprehensions and watch right now happening. but the boundary right now bulletin believes that he is in the position to put demands that way better because of these new hypersonic weapons that russia has been developing. and he believes that that gives russia the upper hand. and that russia now is militarily stronger for the time being and should really use this opportunity at to push the west and united states away from its borders. secure a kind of buffers, a big buffer zone between itself and the west and nato. again, i, we don't know for sure, but it looks like they're all right. let me bring theresa in to reason, given that those diplomacy still have a chance. i mean, we always must try for diplomacy,
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but we've seen this diplomat and we're leaders beating a path to the kremlin store and pretty much nothing was happening. i mean, even well as of the u. k said, you had a with of munich about it because there was never any de escalation that was kind of what was needed for continued dialogue. so the russians pretended to de escalate, well, continuing to escalate and having all of these discussions. we saw president chrome pretty much humiliated because after 5 hours of discussions we put in put in said it was a form of torture, having to talk to a crime for so long as there's very present your course, the russian 9th of on this. and they would say that's because the west has been wasting time in these negotiations and not observing as they see it rushes, security demands and concerns and not addressing them well. they had the meeting at nato, which was the 1st time in 2 years that they met at that level. and i think the way
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that put in submitted his demands was not a way of having dial. like you said, this is what we want. we want this to be a treaty, so there is no discussion really, there was no dialogue, it was like take it or leave it. and i think that there were some off rooms offered to put in, for example, discussions, untruth placement, missile placement, and possibly, you know, nuclear weapons discussions once again to, to re animate those discussions. so i think that they did try to offer them off ramps, but put in it has not accepted that at all. and i think that instead of getting less nito, the cummins getting more neo, we're seeing a sweden and finland watching this very closely. and as we know, they are neutral countries, but maybe if you're not a member of nato, this is what will happen to you. all right, let me bring in once again peter, the message from give,
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has been very clear in the last few days that they wanted stronger sanctions and they wanted the now, what do you think the analysis will be in care of, of the sanctions which have been imposed so far away enough. well, once again, i think the signal from germany is kind of unexpected because germany, germany has been considered the, the odd man out as far as that we're comp coordinated western policy. putting has been banking on the support of germany as the coastline touch. there's those on tried to understand and sympathize with russia. so once again, this is probably has thrown a monkey wrench into let him are putting his calculations as far as jo, biden's and now sanctions against the state. let's, well, this is part of the strategy to still use them as potential, you know, for potential kind of a leverage with russians. be, understand that, you know, they don't even reach the level of symbolism that is required. i mean, these republics already isolated quality entities. they don't trade with any one of these sanctions don't go far. they don't bite. there is an understandable kind of
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upset that ukraine has a feeling of we did a over until it's over and bide, never announced that more sanctions are to come. so you bring in, sol, waiting to see, but let me just return to the point, the earlier about nato expansion. i just cannot avoid commenting on it once again, just to make it clear. the nato expansion has been a red herring. let me put a call along, i don't think he's concerned with ukraine joining nato. he knows it's not going to happen any time. so what he's concerned about is trying to recreate a former soviet union in a different shape or form. he considers the loss of ukraine a personal tragedy. she wants to ukraine to follow the kind of the trajectory of bella rules next door. bella says it's essentially over the last year, become a protectorate of russia and military education. and that's exactly what witness trying to achieve. great, he wants to dominate it, and he made it clear. last,
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actually, yesterday his speech, she does not even recognize you quite as illegitimate state. he said, earliest 20 years ago in his meeting with a george w bush's a. george ukraine ain't even a country. and we're seeing 20 years later, we seeing a very direct kind of result for picking part when it comes to go that i want to bring in once again. puzzle puzzled. the sanctions are still coming in. take us through what we know about them so far. what sanctions are in place and what sort of impact do you think moscow wolf will deem them to have? what was seen from moscow leads to the sanctions already announced. the recognition of the sovereign was done by state what's rather mild. the russia stock exchange re bounced when they were announced, and especially that need there are big russian banks like off of banks, bare bank,
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but can burbank are not included and there are fears that they will be good immediately. so they and of course, personal or pinpoint sanctions are not rushes used to them more or less. so these are not yet where that serious sanctions at all. and the, the a former president, the now foot since they're in the security council meeting that they did the say, ah, they're going to fred, they're going to do yellow and then they're going to come to us and negotiate. so we just have to sit it out at the same as after we invaded ga, ga, and they recognize the sovereignty of a seizure and a closet. although right now, i don't think that the noun sanctions are very much a kind of serious, considered as a serious deterrent. all right, there will be 2, aren't teresa talking about putin latest speech? is it something of a turning point up until now we were hearing the message from pu 10 and from the
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foreign minister that hey, we don't want to invade. there is no invasion. this is all hysteria. and in the latest speech, it sounded like futon was questioning the very rights of ukraine to exist as an independent country. yes, i think it is extremely, we're in this message. we're not seeing an upholding as un states. sovereignty issues are being, he's not invading because it's not a southern country that's his narrative and that many historians, for example, tim site or a b l university says that this is fantasy from a 1000 years ago. fairytale, so the fact that he is pretending it is not a country and therefore can be absorbed by russ size, i think is an extremely we're in narrative. and this is to kind of prep the russian population about this and kind of re absorbing their cousins. but i think that's really what many analysts have stated that they will,
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that they will want to have regime change. they just need a leadership that will be more pro, rasa again, if you permit me to raise or present the perspective, you know, on the other side, would argue that this is exactly what all will pals have done, including the u. s. with countries like cuba in their backyard that they want those phase of influences. well, of course they're, it's hard to tell people on 2022. you can only be a buffer state, and that's what russia once they want ukraine to be one giant buffer states. and i think that it is. ready clear that there will be no boots put on the ground by any western power in, in, in ukraine that has been made absolutely clear. and i think that's put in has made his calculations. then they have proof, you know, whether prove themselves for the last 7 years with fortress russia. this idea of becoming less dependent on the west. having other financial instruments, they only use 16 percent of their exchanges are in dollars. no. so that's
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a big decline from 40 percent several years ago. so i think that they have been working and preparing on this. and let's not forget the big difference between now and what happens in crimea back in 2014, is that they have the taste that support of beijing we saw put in go to beijing, signed this agreement with president she. and so they have this understanding then i went from beijing or i'm afraid we are running out of time. we're going to have to leave it there. it's been a great discussion. let's thank our guests have all 4 been how theresa fallon and peters on my i have. i'm thank you to for want to you can see the show again any time by visiting our website al jazeera dot com for further discussion head over to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story can also join the conversation on twitter. our handle, there is a j inside story from me, sam is a than and the whole team here for now. let's go by
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ah, we've cut off rushes, government from western financial the u. s. in dallas and dallas lieu of sanctions against russia over its actions in ukraine. but hold back on the toughest penalty diplomacy is still an option, says bad about proven even as he gets a parliamentary knobs. 4 to send troops outside russia ah, are given l bases algebra live from dough ha. also coming up. where now the front
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lines of the conflict and eastern ukraine where the threat of.

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