ah, sacrificing their family lives for the education of future generations. women in the wind on al jazeera, ah. ready 20, ah, street fighting in col, key off to russian troops, and so ukraine, 2nd biggest city, ah, hello and welcome on peter w. watching al jazeera without continuing coverage of the conflict in ukraine also had this half hour russian forces attack oil and gas facilities, sparking huge explosions in several ukrainian cities. the ukranian leader of loaded

me as a lensky says, his country is ready for talks with russia, but not in bella, luce. we will stop protein from using his war chest. western allies agree to cut some russian banks from international messaging and payment system. it's called swift, awe. day for russia has stepped up its military advance as its troops and sa ukraine, 2nd biggest city. mama kalki is situated in the northeast near the separatist held regions of lohan scandal nets, while than 400 kilometers from the capital key of military vehicles have been seen moving along streets in khaki, city center. the regional governor says ukrainian forces are battling russian troops in the streets of warren civilians not to go out. russian forces of attacks,

oil and gas facilities, sparking huge explosions. troops are trying to take over the basil keep air base. that's 40 kilometers south, west of kia on oil depot. there is on fire after being hit by a russian missile. ukraine has rejected the russian offer of talks in belarus in minsk saying it was the staging ground for the invasion. a russian delegation has arrived in the by the russian city of go, mel, the ukrainian president law to me, as the lensky says, he remains open to talks in a neutral venue. yes. why she did it? do you mean? if you didn't have this aggressive actions from your territory, you could have talked in minsk in your town. truth, that's the situation to be neighbors. and now you have made your choice. depends on you. that's why now you're seeing no to minsk in other places, could be a springboard for talks. i want to talk, you want to meet to end this war. just breath slab, budapest. we have suggested to the russians or any other place, except okay,

let's get going and stay with that big story for you. joining us here on sat is matt demick. he is formerly the head of russia and east europe at the us national security council met to make welcome to alto, they're english. let's talk specifics what she'll reading of where we are with the broader conflict. it's been a remarkable set of circumstances here over the past 4 days. as i think everybody's been able to see. it's very apparent that when russia laid out their strategy and their plan and executed their operational plan, they were expecting to be much farther along at this point. and due to the bravery and the grit, and the determination of the, the ukrainian military forces in the ukrainian people that plan has stumbled straight out of the gate. so my reading so far as the russians have clearly shown their hand, they have shown exactly what their operational plan is, at least at this initial stage. they're certainly looking to capture the capital that we're hoping to do that within the 1st day or 2 which was repelled and now

they're having to scramble to try to figure out an alternate plan. so that looks like that axis is stalled for the moment. of course, they've got the 3 other axis coming from the car, key axis the, the don bass axis in the crimea axis, mixed success on a, on a variety of those fronts. it certainly appears that of, from the, the car cave axis in the crimea axis. they're trying to form a pincer movement so that they can envelop what is probably ukraine's most valuable and most effective fighting forces which are farther in the east. out rushes had attempted to conduct that development. if they're successful, they could probably prevent those forces from working against the russian forces of later on, the russian forces vastly outnumbered the ukrainian forces. but for you, what's the u. s. p about the ukranian force is, is it just they want to defend their land? absolutely. they, these are, these are tough customers,

mccraney military is without resources. they are not without capabilities. they certainly have gotten stronger even since 2014, thanks to a pretty robust train and equip program plus the ukrainian interest in and reforming their military and getting stronger. so i think we've been very impressive the ukrainian military now there was confidence that they would be able to hold up to a certain extent. oh, i'll be it there. outnumbered vastly by superior russian forces. there certainly the concept that the ukrainians would be able to hold up to a certain extent. but at this point, i would have to say the ukrainians, the ukrainian military vastly over performing from what we expected and how they're able to continue to have their air defense operational. even despite rushes, a vast amount of air power that should have cleared the skies of ukrainian air force and ukrainian air defense at that hasn't happened, which speaks well to ukrainians capabilities. had the russians pivoted towards what's going on in the east, particularly now they've been going off to marry

a polk. they haven't managed it. it looked as if they were trying to build some sort of rump enlarged buffer zone, sort of de nest big de nest to almost extending it towards the west or the southwest towards crimea. and yet there are people who do similar job to yourself who say that those, those a conduit lines from the bell russian border down to kiev, are literally now perhaps perhaps too long and overstretched. if you've got the guys in the russian tanks at the head of those columns, they need to be supplied constantly with new bullets, everything to keep the machine going, new bullets new missiles, and if the ukrainians managed to break those corridors, at that point, the russian forces that have got from se, mid dates and 9 pm on the clock face of key f city center. they will be left isolated and therefore very, very vulnerable. in modern combat, when it comes to a conventional ground forces armored columns of and long, long,

vast columns of boat vehicles consume a fuel and ammunition at a absolute ferocious rate. and if you have not stockpiled enough of the logistics ahead of time and you, if you have not planned for an operation to take, to take longer than expected, which is currently the case that we're seeing now. then you're going to have a convoys and vehicles that just run out of gas. they run out of ammunition and they are basically stranded along the side of the road until the logisticians can reorganize and, and get equipment and supplies back to the frontline forces. what's the, what's the lead elements of all of these russian forces at the tip of these axes, at incredible risk, and those supply lines that stretch back now, dozens of kilometers are at risk of smaller ukrainian units who can easily attack on the flanks. they can hit and strike at points of their choosing and extract a lot of damage against her, against many of these axes,

which i think were same play out. and it's a shock, i believe, to the, to the russian military after these 2 or 3 days where they were expecting, i imagine, to be much farther along than they are and how to achieve much more success. i think they're reeling at this point, trying to figure out what went wrong and how to address it. do you get the sense that as far as mister zalinski was concerned, over the past 4 months of the russian military build up on the other side of east and ukraine on the border between east ukraine and russia and between northern ukraine and bella roost that there was a kind of a, a diplomatic slight of hand, almost going on on his part because he was saying and sickening. clearly, guys, let's just keep on talking. diplomacy is never dead. might be ice cold, but it's never dead, never dead. and yet, as russia, we're saying we're building up our forces and the west was kind of sticking its head in the sand on that one kind of cause we were the west was year. and maybe mr . zalinski was saying, actually guys to his military planners. we need to get ready because we can not, at least we cannot trust mister putin at most. he might go for a full on invasion. i think would have to dial back

a little bit backed october november where the united states had some seems like some pretty clear intelligence about what was going on. and as it's playing out now, it was almost 100 percent accurate about the timing size and the direction that some of these operations are going to go. so, i don't believe there was any surprise on the part of western countries when it came to what to expect. i know mister president lensky had his own reasons for trying to calm, calm the nerves of the cranium people and tried to play or tried to speak to the scenario as being something of the not, not really expecting innovation for his own purposes. he didn't want to see capital fleeing from the country. he didn't want to see you don't, did not want to instill panic. i think there was a sense in the united states for sure, and probably in other western countries that were privy to the intelligence about what was coming. mr. lindsey's way that it maybe should have been a little bit more nervous about the russian advance and the russian build up. and

maybe there were probably some opportunities, maybe to prepare, entrench, put some defences in a reinforced border guards up around those regions where the russian forces, where he had a lot of reasons to play that down. but i don't think there was that there was any mistake about what russia was doing, what their capabilities were, how they were marshalling and the timing of what they were wanted in the direction of traveling conflicts like this, particularly when, if you, except that we are in stage one here of something that may yet end up being long, messy, literally with a big death toll, perhaps you can turn in the blink of an eye very, very quickly. how exposed is khaki? how vulnerable is that place? cuz it's only 40 kilometers from the russian border. it's very exposed, it's, it's very close to one of the center of gravity for rush military forces. and so if russia put his mind to it, they have enormous amounts of material and people that can surround harkins and

isolated going into the city of harkey, one of ukraine's biggest cities, presents all the same problems of urban warfare that the russians are, are experiencing, and key of at the moment. so in the sense that the harkey is isolated and close to russia and surrounded by an enormous amount of russian force. yes. but the forces inside harpies have got tremendous assets of their ability and present to the russians with a uniquely complex problem of trying to rule out ukrainian forces and fight citizens hand to hand inside inside that city. so it's mac, whether it's, whether it's the turkeys president, mr. tuan. 59 years ago. now. dropping hints about access to the ocean to the black sea via the phosphorus, whether it's boris johnson doing big sound bites, standing in front of military aircraft. whether it's mister biden, coming to the lectern inside the white house. everyone is clearly know on the same page deploying the individual bits of strategy from

a portfolio of resources that they think they can bring to it. is there a calculation though? the calculation is we will give the ukrainians as much support as we possibly can up to, but not including us. you need so boots on the ground inside ukraine or russia until perhaps the popularity of what mister putin is doing, begins to dip massively. if and when we see russian bodybags going back to russia, you put your finger on all the aspects of it. the been pleasantly surprised by the amount of global support for ukraine and just the amount of resolve and all that. like, as you said, all these leaders are coming out and making decisions that we had not expected. even a week ago, you see germany now approving the, the deployment of stinger missiles, which they were, they were nowhere close to contemplating just a week ago. so,

russia's actions of galvanized the rest of the world really changed the tenor and tone of how all of our western countries think about russia. i think the blinders are off, if there were any to begin with for countries that were somewhat sympathetic to russia's cause, or we're looking for any reason to not put the screws to russia. all those excuses have been blown away by russia's invasion into ukraine. so, diplomacy is not completely dead diplomacy. i guess nobody fights cold. there is kind of on the slab and, but there's still a pulse in there someplace who do you make of the refreshed off just in the past. what are and a half or so of talks? russia saying we are ready to talk? oh, by the way it's got to be in minsk, minsk didn't work the 1st time round mince to demonstrably, as we're seeing life out on admins to failed. astonished. arguably mister putin's critics might say he has written a coach in horses through the 2010 astonish agreement. and understandably mister zalinski saying no, never in minsk, never in bella roost because that was complicit in what's going on in my country at

the moment. so is that an offer that's made by the kremlin, secure in the knowledge that the offer will be rejected? you have to assume, so i don't think those are serious request on russia's part. presidents lensky would be a fool to travel to minsk or to austin, which are allies of russia. and belarus, at this point, is basically a battle state of russia. so there's no point in, in presidents landscape going to one of those venues, especially men's considering, you know, this. suppose admins, 3 agreement will probably be as worthless as the, the 1st to minsk agreements at this point. so it's encouraging, of course, that the both sides are even mentioning the possibility of sitting down to the table and talking of course, every conflict has to get resolved at some point with leaders sitting around the table to finally come to terms with what the agreements going to be so in that sense, i think it's good, but at this point, 4 days into the invasion, i have my have my doubts and reservations that anything will materialize from an

anytime soon. your essentially met an analyst, i guess that would be a kind of a broad bruster terminology for kind of what you've, what you do for a living. but you're not a psychiatrist. however, if you were to analyze what mr. putin's go to is at the moment up here. what would you say about him? because marker rubio who is uniquely well connected to the thinking of the white house because of a particular positional role that he occupies within the american political machine . he, yesterday, i noticed on twitter, pete was saying that something not right with mister putin. do you get the sense that mr. fortune has crossed a rubicon, that he will not be able to retract to redress from to redress the balance of normal political behavior. now, something's changed with the president potent, there's always been a sense that he's got these entrenched grievances, he's got a list of list of things that have bothered him. he kicked us off with the 2007 munich speech. and since then has been executing off that list of grievances. but up until now, we've always assumed that the president putin operates on the basis of rational

assessment and that his cognitive abilities arm are not compromised after his speech last week, which i think everybody has the same opinion and characterizes that it's absolutely unhinged. i think we have to maybe re assess what exactly is going on, and pollutants thought process and his decision making process because as we're seeing this invasion unfold, there are just so many questions about what possible decision making process brought president put into this current state and how in the world he thought that he was going to accomplish anything that he set out to accomplish when it comes to the strategic level by executing this invasion and the way that he's done it and lead up to it demick for the moment. thank you very much. out to 0 correspondence. so to me it has more now from the d pro in eastern ukraine, a very complicated picture, and fighting really happening in all these hot spots. kev, south,

east and north of cave, ukrainian armies. true pushing back of the russian advance, according to the ministry of defense, also attacking a convoy of chechen fighters who had come across the border and were advancing towards cave. according to the ministry of defense, the of the did, the commander in charge of that brigade would have been killed in that attack. now, as you were mentioning or earlier beecher, it's cleared and the russians are trying to also attack all kinds of infrastructure . the oil they pull in near cave, a gas pipeline, a north of car cave are also in the south than a round of operation. and they're trying to advance towards a nuclear plant, then the korean government being very alarming about it, not knowing whether that nuclear bond is to put it under control or actually to hit

it. but it's very clear that the russians have been bog down, is taking much longer. i think that what they thought they thought that they had the military superiority, and they didn't expect such a stand by the ukrainian military. and now they, i kind of not only attacking any more military assets of the ukrainian army, but actually going after civilian assets. camp is under curfew since last night, and saturday, 8 pm to, to morrow, monday, 8 a. m. and that is to make sure to go after saboteurs have been fire, fire a gun fire fighting reported on the streets of gives in several areas here. and in the pro also there was a curfew overnight for exactly the same reason. and we were told by the military here that actually they had intercepted as several rockets early this morning. oh,

behaving towards the airport of the pro. so certainly we're not talking any more about attacks of the ukraine and military, but this is all out a tag on also civilian infrastructure, civilian residential neighborhoods in give well, mister putin has again taken to the airwaves, praising the efforts of his troops. it's the 1st time you spoken directly to moscow's forces, instead of sending out a message to either the ukrainian military or the wide world as to where please let us do. i pay special tribute to those heroically performing them military duty during the special operation to provide assistance to the people's republic of don best these days. i wish luck success and all the best to you and your close ones. now to 0 correspondent, ranier, the ready has more from the russian city of belgrade, had the hagi alabama, the sad to survive. hello. in fact, the situation is not changing a lot this morning. we didn't see any movements towards ukrainian border,

but we expect an increase in numbers of the russian military convoys to was the border with ukraine in the coming hours. as also we didn't see any military movements towards the south and towards car camp. the situation was very different . yesterday on the dawn bus front. on the economic side, the russians say that sanctions imposed on russia by the west are very tough and will have their impact on the country's economy. but according to russian official statements in the kremlin sources, it's not the 1st time that russia is experiencing this as more than 100 sanctions in recent years of me, russia to get along and get used to the sanctions. and that impacts moscow has also confirmed yesterday that has enough tools and power to deal with the sanctions into decrease their impact. the vice chairman of the russian security council has not only hinted to complete cutting diplomatic taste with the u. s. but also talked about the possibility of freezing the assets and money of foreign companies and business men in russia. it is also very important to mention that the vice chairman

of the russian security council has talked about the possibility of withdrawal from the strategic arms reduction treaty, which was signed with russia during u. s. president obama's term and he was extended again with president biden. and we all know how important this treaty is to monitor amendment in the world. okay, we're always getting some live pictures coming in to us here at al jazeera, what you're looking at just now is locked out camera shot from the russian ukranian border. that specifically is on the russian side of the border, will stay with these live pictures and will also ah, meld them into some of the latest pictures for you as well. and we'll carry on talking to matt demick who is very close. i suspect still matt, to the thinking at the highest levels we are going to talk later on about the swift system. are you and i don't need to, don't want to talk about the specifics of how it does what it does. that's a different conversation with somebody else. however, why did it take so long? because they've been talking about this for the best part of what 5 days now. and

it feels it was tortuous, almost cuz it seemed such an obvious thing to do. but it took them a long time. so i think there are several reasons for that, sir. one, when it comes to imposing sanctions on russia, the ideology is that the sanctions on russia should be punishing russia more than they're punishing ourselves. so when it comes to the swift system, the a purchase of gas and oil are through the exchange of currencies. oh is critical to our european partners, which is why they're there. so hesitant to press that button and eliminate swift. i think events have proven otherwise, and i think though, the all the countries who have now come out and consolidated around a decision to remove russia from swift have a, had their minds changed. the u. s. was oh, i think in principle are ready to remove russia from the swift, but we, us was not going to do it without the consensus of all the european partners and there is to hold outs up until the last several days. so now those are many hold

outs have finally come on board. i think the united states will follow suit very quickly. and will those hold outs always be there or will they? i'm going to stop myself with that question. because mr. putin is talking. this is not live, this is what we're going to go into now is a taped feed of mr. putins latest thoughts. let's have a listening to national interest of russia. the heroic sped snarls. traditions. he took roots down to the great patriotic wall and we're developing and getting stronger in afghanistan and fighting the terrorist gangs in the northern caucasus and syria. ye know how the modem, when tactics are changing constantly. now, soldiers and commanders off ah troops, how to improve their skills and using the most

advanced military equipment and weaponry. and so pos, any potential enemy in the field of mbc movement, the fighting. i know that you have a real fighting school look up to the real examples of patriotism and educate new generations of the protectors and defenders of our fatherland. i want to congratulate and thank all the soldiers and officers and veterans for i see that truthfulness to their military eyes. and specifically, i want to say thank you to those who is involved in the operation. helping the people's republic of don boss. i wish you all the best and

all successes to you and to your near and dear. let me put in there the russian president that was a tate feed, that we just punched our way into for he was talking clearly about afghanistan and what has gone on in the northern caucasus, over the past. what 2025 years or so that has been a weeping saw for the russian federation. afghan astonished the old ussr. that was hardly a 6 even call that a success story. he said, just now we're using the most advanced military equipment. we have a real fighting school and look to your own patriotism. and thank you, want to thank the people in the operation were talking to matt demick mat. if, if one was a put in critic, you might say he's gone to kind of authoritarian play, but one a one coming on the tv for an hour or so every day. sitting there looking powerful, looking, imposing, wrapping himself in the flag almost literally, cuz he's got 2 flags behind him. how will that be perceived? not amongst people that kind of flank, joe biden, every day, every hour, every day,

but amongst the planners, is that just that's who he is? now? i don't think there's any, a change in of putin's mode or, you know, put his behavior here. it's of like you said, it's so thought areas, authoritarianism, one a one. this is a, you know, something you would expect button to come out and say every day is trying to run him back up his own people and trying to put a shine on. what is evolving into a debacle. so he's having to tell his own people that don't the, the army is fighting courageously. they're having successes, and that they're living up to the great traditions of the, the russian fatherland. so, nothing new. interesting. when you talk about the russian fatherland that why when he did his 1st one, our addressed the nation. what 4 days ago, now, 4 and a half days ago, did he feel the need to go all the way back to lennon to justify what's going on in ukraine yet? said it speaks to a sort of a little bit of this unhinged aspect of who's thinking. i think he went back that

far into history because at that point he was trying to make the case that ukraine was not a name in any form or fashion that is just a collection of territories that have been pulled together and that he was using lenin as a punching bag and in that conversation and saying the mistakes that were made at the, at the formation of the soviet union now where favors were given to a group of nationalists and ukraine. that is what has led to many of the problems that russia's having to deal with now. and i mentioned lenin as of you know, the original sin when it comes to the creation of ukraine. and that just opposes putin as somebody who's going in and going to fix this historical mistake. and also what's interesting listening to various other people that we've been talking to, that seems to be at the highest level in the kremlin. this seems to be 2 things going on in parallel. the 1st thing is, look, invading a country is not necessarily a bad idea, which is just a bit we, it,

if you're born and bred in a vasa politician democracy, the idea of invading a country is not a bad idea, but also to get the sense that i mean, you spent how many years, 78 years in moscow, 2 years a moscow many years in the region. right. do you get the sense that this still people plugged in to the decision making apparatus? not necessarily very close to mister putin. they still haven't worked out. you can't treat everyone as if it was still the u. s. i saw that was 19891990. it's dead. it's buried. it's gone. something unique is happening handout and putin's inner circle and amongst his trusted advisors. whereas before, maybe in the early years of his presidency, he sought out multiple viewpoints and may be considered different, differing opinions over time. that circle of trusted advisors has gradually shrunk, and at this point, not only has it shrunk, but the, the type of advisors,

he surrounded himself with the people that he listened to, that he takes the most advice from are some of these most hard line nash listings aggressive advisors, these are members of his leaders of his security services mat let's, let's begin to wrap up our conversation where we started it at the top of the hour . you seem to be saying that so far, this is only day 4 of what may yet be a long, bloody messy, protracted war in europe. we haven't had a war in europe for almost 80 years. you seem to be saying that as of today, the ukrainian forces are more dextrous, they are more nimble, they are more knowledgeable of where they're fighting compared to the russian forces. we've seen the russian forces overnight. they 3 and stay for kind of, tilt towards a different strategy. is that strategy set in stone for them? do you think they're going to carry on going for the airport? because if you have the airports, you have the country, are they going to go for the infrastructure? are they going to go for? i mean, for example, there are 7 bridges that are the life blood of key at the capital city. are we

going to see them try to blow up bridges? now, for example, i think what we're going to see is russia's going to double down on their, on their plan. i think their operational plan in theory is, is probably still effective if they pursue the same axis and they pursue the same type of operational goals. it's going to take them longer. and i think they tried something on this initial phase, which was a quick surgical strike to the extent that the russians can be surgical, but a rapid surgical strike to try to decapitate the government key of invalid forces and eastern ukraine. sees objectives and hope that the country would collapse and that the forces would capitulate and they would wrap this thing up. in a matter of days. those assumptions now been proven false. their ability to get that operational plan complete in that timeline is now done. so they're going to have to readdress, they'll probably make some adjustments to the plan as they will get more forces.