much about the war and to feel that i can help people that i also take part in them, may be small part by to potter in the way of our winning this war. and i hope that song, all the citizens, all people of ukraine will understand fully understand importance of their independence. and it will be like a chance to build it from their basement. and so build it in the right way. ah, it says add a 0 that's going around up now. other top stories a large scale air strike has blasted an army headquarters in the city of b. kaleil, killing dozens. rescue efforts are underway. after the attack reduced the building to rubble. ukraine 2nd largest city is lying in ruins,

after being pounded by russian air strikes. the center of hot cave has been completely devastated with buildings collapsed and caused buried in the rubble rushes. defense ministry says it's been destroying ukrainian military vehicles with high precision weapons. it says it's use hypersonic missiles for the 1st time since this war began. that cannot be verified, was the local muslim or the armed forces of the russian federation continued their special operation. on march 18 was of the degradation massage system destroyed a large underground warehouse or storing ammunition of green and troops, and you wanna franka screeching with. no. russian forces have reportedly entered. mar you, paul. the southern port city has been devastated by weeks of russian bombardment and thousands of still trapped to other news. now, serious president bashar alas, said has visited the united arab emirates. it is his 1st trip to an our country

since the war began in 2011. the us state department called the visit profoundly disappointing lease 23 people have been killed after a bus crashed into a truck in east and tans. any of it happened in malay la to bony, about 200 kilometers from donna salon. nearly a 1000000 people in each team will have voted to choose the next president. penny poll suggests form a president and no will peace prize. laureate jose ramos horta is in the lead. he's facing 15 of the candidates, including the current president, francisco terrace, who seeking a 2nd term presidential candidates in the philippines are holding a televised debate there vying to succeed rodriguez to ted take. the hope was included ferdinand marcos. junior, the mayor of manila and a retired boxing champion. those are the headlines inside story is next. from the frontlines alpha 0 correspondence continue to report every angle if the

war in ukraine we've just heard chilling in the distance of machine gun far in the forest. there is a humanitarian crisis erupting on. multiple from rockets landed just a few meters from all convoy. similar positions are being built all over the need for a region. any choice street totally destroyed along the road we came in on. there was still clearly an active battlefield day without thereafter the latest development the u. s. president warns china of consequences if it helps russian forces in ukraine, begging blames washington for the war and say, sanctions will hurt the global economy. so what's china's strategy on ukraine, and will it hurt relations with the west? this is inside story. ah.

hello and welcome to the program. i'm fully back table. it's been nearly a month since russia invaded ukraine, and there's been no sign of any d escalation. russian forces have targeted several regions in the last few days, including the besieged city of merrier pole in the south. while the fighting rages on wells leaders are attempting to find a diplomatic solution. us present, joe biden, and chinese leaders. she jane being spoke on the phone on friday for the 1st time since the war began. washington is concerned about b jane stance on the conflict. chinese officials have refused to condemn the invasion. biden has warned of consequences for china if it provides material support to moscow, but the white house hasn't given details on what those consequences might include. we have a range of tools that could be considered and sanctions are certainly one tool in the toolbox as they are for other countries as well, even if we as we have not outline specific consequences and we'll, we'll communicate those directly to china. and of course,

with our european partners and counterparts. meanwhile, china's ambassador to ukraine has sprays the strength of the ukrainian people in a message that was a slight departure from the official line in beijing, ukraine. st. media coated fun shing wrong saying china is a friendly country for the ukrainian people. as an ambassador, i can responsibly say that our country will forever be a good force for ukraine both economically and politically. he says will always respect your state and develop relations on the basis of equality and mutual benefit. his al jazeera is katrina you in beijing now with more on the call between the u. s. and chinese leaders, according to chinese, read out, says that a president sheet in ping told joe biden, that both countries had the responsibility to de escalate tensions that fighting was in nobody's interest. and also he repeated china's stance that sanctions would

not be effective in ending of the war, and would only serve to damage the global economy that was already struggling to recover from the pandemic. now in order for the u. s. part of that, joe biden emphasize it, they with the material a costs, or there would be consequences for materially supposing russia in its efforts to invade ukraine, although the u. s. did not state what these consequences would. b, u. s. officials have asserted that russian officials have asked china and military support, military aid in the form of equipment. and in terms of helping to engage in this was something that both moscow and beijing have denied a prison blind and also went on to share his own view. of the war and put forward the u. s. and its allies efforts to stop russia's invasion and presumably tried to get china on board with that. however, we have seen no indication whatsoever that he was successful in this. and in fact,

by the end of this call, long as it did last, we've seen no sign whatsoever that china's position has changed. ah, while a spring in our guests for today's inside story in bridging andy market senior research fellow at the center for china and globalization and a professor at b gene foreign studies university in washington, lauren scores a former assistant secretary of defense and a senior fellow at the center for american progress, and in len london, zeno leoni, a lecturer in war studies at kings college, london, and an affiliate of the university loud china institute. a warm welcome to you all gentlemen, thank you for being on inside story. andy more can beijing let me sot with you, please. as katrina said there in our report, the call between present biden and president, she doesn't seem to have changed anything in either leaders or even countries position. but you believe that this was

a significant and important call. why is that? i do believe this was an important call. i think. first of all, the framing and the western media really is misleading and really are being nothing more than due to the non refers for the u. s. government. if you read the sing, read out the call. it makes 3 points. the 1st that both president thought the cause constructive. the 2nd point, which is the most important one, is that both presidents will instruct their people to take concrete actions to ensure that the china us relationship is back on the right track. and finally, the issue that is urgent and consuming the attention of the world is that both sides also agree that proper measures need to be taken to resolve the ukrainian

crisis. and i think it's the 2nd point that's really important. and the key here is, can the u. s. muster the political courage that is necessary to honor the decisions taken during this call? so this is why i think this was actually a very, very important call. and if you talk about the framing in west and media of this conflicts, i wonder how does chinese public opinion view this conflict in ukraine? what, you know, on social media in the past few days, they seem to have been a shift in chinese social media. how are they seeing this conflict? isn't it bad? p, r, for china to be sustaining these ties with russia right now. when civilians are being bombed? well, i think we have to separate public opinion in china from the official position and public opinion of course matters. but what matters more, i think, is the government's position on this. and this has been consistent all along the china has long said that it is on the side of peaceful development. and

that, i think a couple things i would maybe question that it's a month in and russia still is not backed out. if we really understand the causes of this conflict, they're complex, but clearly they are heated disagreements and of course, violent disagreements on both sides of this question. but frankly, china has said that it is an impartial, neutral, and objective participant in this and not taking one side or the other, which i think is the only effect is have to a peaceful solution. larry l. orange cove. al, ask you about this in just a 2nd, whether china is a neutral participant, but i want to get your thoughts 1st on this call between president she and present biden, this long phone conversation they had. is it a watershed moment? do you think? as andy does that, this was an important call. oh,

i think it was very important because really the ultimate future of what happens in ukraine is dependent on both china and the united states. and so i think it was important for president biden to connect with the president she and explain to him what the united states would do if in fact, the china provides more age to russia. because right now, least according to us reports, russia is running out of even munition and even food for the troops. and so of china doesn't provide that, that baby, russia will be willing to negotiate with the ukrainians who have already announced their might pull back from their desire to join nato. so on the question of china's neutrality that andy was talking about is china. do you agree with him that china is it could be a neutral mediator in this conflict. i the very definitely china code because china

has very strong trade relations with europe, which is part of this conflict. they're the only country in the world that really still has influence on russia, i think was very interesting that before potent conveyed it, he went to bay shane to talk to she and didn't do until the elliptic were all books . so it wouldn't distract from china's attention on the, on the olympics. yes, they do have, in the united states that european allies and even some countries in asia have all come out against russia. what if china continues to try and help them? it will be russia will have less incentive to end this conflict on a negotiated solution. ok, then let me bring you into a conversation and you know the slight and sub tall change in rhetoric we've seen in chinese media recently in the last few days,

at least when it comes to the war in ukraine. they're focused on the humanitarian and the refugee crisis, the tweets also from the chinese ambassador to the, to ukraine, quite significant. china, providing humanitarian aid to ukraine as well. how should we view this? do you think china's position is evolving and has evolved since the conflict began? and i think seems because it became chinese positions substantially as we change. there was always great concern and great end of this drama experienced by ukrainian people and focus on trying to find a b for resolution. however, on a public level, china will be used to be undecidable. russia, and then of course, china is lemma. which is, should,

should the goal should be prioritize, clunky or because if he was not working, he was all, it was obviously tried to make it conversational with the, with, with your mom. but actually china, we know, right. we've seen these, these private china. normally, it tends to long term in china really needs at this stage of growth, strategic trajectory a, a partner. and stephanie rush is one of those. so i think china, china will be shown as actually change the, the longer spends on 3rd party crime doesn't not ready to lead pressure going. ok, let's take a closer look now at china's economic ties with some of the key players in this crisis. and what that fake us trade with china has grown enormously in recent

decades and is crucial for both nations, the united states and for small from china, then from any other nation in 2021. nearly half of china is $3.00 trillion dollars in export went to the us and its allies. that number is far higher than its trade with moscow, which hit a record on your high of more than $146000000000.00 last here. and trade between china and the e. u was worth more than $800000000000.00 for the same period. and the market in beijing, zeno say, is a difficult balancing act for china. what are the options then for chinese leaders? if this conflicts drugs on? well, i think unfortunately, i think all indications, despite every was hope that it could be resolved soon will likely drag on. i'm not sure that it really has much of an impact on china's stance or it's policy decisions. i agree with, you know,

that i think that really china's stance, despite some positive rhetoric from the statements from the ukraine in vassar, as you said, really has not changed. the economics of this does not play that big of a role. the important thing here, i think that china has been very, very clear, is that whether in europe or whether in asia, what it will not tolerate is any country undermining the security interest, other countries and regions. and this is the message of, i think, has been delivered very clearly and resolutely to the us. most recently in this call between the 2 presidents, c and biden lauren's cor, do you agree with this? andy says, economic service. don't play a big role. i think an issue that's more important to china here is the whole question of taiwan,

because they see russia claiming ukraine back to part of russia. the same way that they see taiwan as part of china. and that sort of goes in combination with the economic interest. they have both concerns and i think that's really a place in this. in fact, what we hear from the call is one buys and started talking about. 2 ukraine trying to start talking about taiwan. so that is very important to them, not just the economic consideration, but i think what biden made clear to them is these economic consequences, as you just pointed out here with the amount their trade with the u. s. and the european union could really have pretty severe consequences for china. what consequences precisely would the, the biden administration be considering here with the us go as far as isolating china economically in the same way that russia find itself isolated and sanctioned stay?

i think they would move in that direction the real quick and by the i don't think bio knows exactly. now because these obviously would have a severe impacts on the united states as well as our european nation. so that really is the key question. so it's really up to china now, has we say a new s, the ball is in their court. they want to help russia by providing ammunition right now, or they going to maintain their neutrality and, and try and start negotiation was, remember, negotiations already ongoing. i think trying to could play a positive role and tell washer, you know, you can come out ahead with this you, they'll recognize your radix ation of crimea. they'll be more independence in the don bass region. and ukraine won't join nato. and you can declare that a victory, they know your thoughts about this. how likely is it that china could push russia to end the war and withdraw from ukraine? being one will learn from the meeting between by them and she adults in the last

few months on this graphics there actually goes seems to me, let me mommy vacuum where nobody is able to restart china, russia. and then also we need to understand that the international and see them also in space. it doesn't work, you know, way that's you know, some of the machine only because china of any of our can just pick up the phone and, and so we will, he's building, especially when you raise such on face for, for russia. so only one in china is probably the most likely player to be able to achieve the meaningful because the, you may from the us, you can not at the moment. on the other hand, that doesn't mean that china is all that many people, especially men in the us,

folks who have on, on russia. so it is also like china remains on defense because breast one can be seen as being directly we've been trying to stop and then maybe fading because then we'll have a negative impact on implementing time will look like a great that perhaps as only implant over small hours, but not major practice like this one. and in beijing your thoughts about this? well, i'd like laura sprays the ball was in someone's court, but i would say that the ball was in the u. s. is work for 2 reasons. first, that russia is nowhere near as isolated as the united states or western media would like to make it out to be. first of all, let's look at india who is very clearly said that they're looking to set up the ruby rubel extreme with russia. and you trading with russia,

look at the opec countries for russia has been a very crucial voice on the un security council, pocket sty arrive. so i think the efforts to isolate russia really are not going as well as the u. s. is portraying, and this will be doubly if not tripoli, true for efforts to isolate china. because while what russia can do is threaten nato and the us with nuclear attacks. china is not only a nuclear power, it's an economic superpower. so it will be even more damaging to countries like the u. s. that we try to impose any kind of economic sanctions. right. let me ask us about the viewpoint and be that that a lot of commentators are making right now and that is president. she was banking on, on, put in, and his own country in china to form a unified strong block against the, against the west,

another block against the west. i mean, a week, a russia, whether they come out victorious from this war or not. i mean, would that not fit, not fit well with, with the, with the chinese, i mean russia, regardless of whether they win in ukraine will come out somewhat weaker from this conflict is not a concern for china. well, i think very briefly, china's real view is that it wants to see more justin humane order without any country engaged. are these kind of power politics quote more. thank you. but i think the more important point here is that really the case. what about of taiwan? i mean, that was top of the conversation between size and biden, and president, she, taiwan, the implications for sure. well, get taiwan is the cornerstone of us china relations. because china seas this as an internal matter and others around the world perhaps don't. but i think i want to

really emphasize here that there's too much attention here in the military conflict and ukraine. but in fact, we need to focus on, i think, where the real data lives, which is economic and what about energy prices, food prices, double and triple. what is that going to do to europe? we are ready early, devastating impact from 3000000 refugees. come next winter, if this conflict is still going on in energy prices, double and triple food prices are increasing. i think this will severely tested, not shattered european unity and in particular germany, i think many analysts in the financial world that focus on the energy sector said that germany really should be much closer to russia than us. but it's have blue at this point. ok to question atlanta system. let's bring it i think we have to see a new yeah. we have to seen did. let's bring in larry in washington dc. very your thoughts about this? how will this war define, 1st of all,

future relations between the u. s. and china, but also between china and your lawrence called well, i think it's going to have a great impact. i think our colleague from beijing is right that the, there's going to be severe economic consequences for everybody involved. they're also going to be economic consequences for china, not just united states. and it's very interesting that andy mentioned germany because up till now germany had been leading toward russia. but after this started or 1000000 not only canceled ignored stream pipeline, but basically gave offensive equipment to ukraine. now the word germany has ended, its post cold war, a post world war 2 policy oh, really remain neutral. that is becoming more aggressive. nobody wins a longer, this goes on. i agree. the real question is, can china and the us come to our understanding that profit? everybody? because i think that china would like to see

a new world order in which china and russia sorta confront the united states and then the period of us. so germany and i have going to be the real question. how does this and, and he's right, the whole world doesn't support it, but i really surprised that asian country singapore, japan, they have also joined, didn't put a nice sanctions on. so it's really, i think it's a pivotal moment for the international community here. how this ends up because the ramifications will go on for decades. ok, they know they only in london, your fonts can china and the u. s. come to an understanding. and what will russia, success, or failure in ukraine mean for global security in the us to come and the global economy? so it's a moment for the 1st one, your question, the province between the us and china, they go there and they will be young. these private,

we have just forgotten about those problems because now your grade, he's on the front page of every newspaper. and why is the people's a moment for the will go there? if they are ready, somehow be real, cobbling on the one in the us brand will be on the war july. and then the companies from china, china, exactly the same company, the westernization. so these crisis is be what we call a this trend. these, these actually happening. so it's better to go to one of the stands and to see where the partnership between china, russia is going because it holes, there might be an important federation of the brand of the company where we see to partially the past barrel being chinese once the very much in the making,

looking into the war and the u. s. one, which was probably close with those counters. still counting the joy in time from going to crash. it's all straight on kind of you. all right, gentlemen, thank you very much for a very interesting discussion. and the mark gray calling, say, i want to say no leoni have a great conversation. indeed, thank you very much. and i thank you for watching. you can always watch this program again anytime by visiting our website at ologist era dot com for further discussion. go to our facebook page at facebook dot com for sashi j inside story. and of course, you can join the conversation on twitter or handle, is that a j insights or for me back to boy and whole team here? and thanks for watching bye. for now, the

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