nazarenes, the guy reckless, describe herself as being a porn in the hands of 2 governments for the last 6 years. she said she now went to return to his normal life as possible. but she also urged people not to forget the jewel national, still held in prison in iran, and had the government not to link their fates. and he political global agreements . charlie angela out there. ah, let's take a look now at the main stories making news. here on al jazeera, at least 8 people have been killed in a rush and strike on a shopping mall and a ukrainian capital. keith. russia says it was being used to store and launch rockets occur, few has come into effect with keep officials fearing yet more attacks. the british defense ministry says seizing the capital is russia's main military objective. where ukrainian forces have refused to lay down arms in matter. you, paul,

the port city has been under almost constant bombardment since the early days of russia's invasion was no food medicine, power, or water. ukrainian officials say that at least 2300 people have died in mario, paul. some of them buried in mass graves say in bazaar ivy is in levine in western ukraine that with more on attempts to evacuate people from ru paul. mary was supposed to be on the list of humanitarian corridors that were active today. there were tens of thousands of people that needed to be evacuated. it was not on that list. now there were people that were able to get out of mary open before this humanitarian court or did not function. but again, it is still not safe even once they are out of very awful reports tonight from the governors operation. that a convoy carrying refugees away from that part of the country has come into contact with russian lines and has experience has come into contact with russian shelling that convoy hit children among the wounded one confirmed to be an intensive care.

tonight, a russian troops are fired, warning shots, and peer gas have protested. thing had phone, at least one person was injured in the demonstration. had son was the 1st major city to come on the russian control. in other news that passenger plane carrying a 132 people has crashed in southern china. the china eastern, boeing jet, was on its way from coming to one joe. the boeing is 737800 crash. that a rate of 31000 feet a minute sparking a fire so huge that it could be spotted in nasa satellite images. the u. s. has determined the violence committed against me and my husband was limber hinder amounts to genocide and crimes against humanity. more than 730000 range of fled west and were keen in 2017. the 3 is next. on counting the costs could the war and ukraine plunged the global economy into

a new life. russia to china, you onto survive banks in the us dollar in danger and could crypto cause? these help rush financial punishment counting the cost on al jazeera. ah hi, i'm josh rushing a filling on for me. okay. and you are in the stream to day civilians under fire and ukraine, as reports of delhi attacks on civilians grow. so to calls for adherence to the rules of war, will look at the apparent targeting of civilians in this conflict and ask, are war crimes being committed and it rushes warren ukraine. ah, since friday began late february, craning residential neighborhoods, hospital schools and buildings uses civilian shelters, have endured attacks by russian forces. those forces have also been accused of

shooting that civilians who are fleeing the war. the un says more than 900 civilians have been killed in ukraine. russia denies any deliberate attacks on civilians. today will look at the issue of civilians casualties and what can be done to prevent further loss of life. with us to talk about this in the v richer, we're a researcher with human rights watch inter keep maria deva, a research director with the european expert association and from the hague. we have federico morello executive director with the center for civilians and conflict . and oh yeah, one more person at this discussion is you, if you're watching this live right now on youtube that box over there. we have a live stream producer waiting to get your comments to me so that i can get them to our audience, our panel, a guests who are with me right now. i'm going to begin with maria because you're in car, keith and car. keith has been hard hit, can you just give us an update on,

on the situation and what the city there looks like right now for you? the city is under constant shell and from the worst started on the 24th of february . and the last couple of days, especially in town, so i hear the shell and not non stop day and night, but in different regions of the city. that means that russia is specifically target to residential area because there is a dentist shout area. i'm what's a 50 aged on the outskirts of car given there are my destruction on this report that around 1000 buildings was completely destroyed because of the rush and challenge. i myself went out of my house couple of days ago. and so gloucester amunition rocket lion just on the pavement because it didn't explode and they're all 5 of the shell and all over the place. so that means that the many people now lean or forced to flee hard to give because russia is deliberately

terrorized, then reveal them threatening them, making them leave their homes or destroying their homes and making it's impossible to leave there any more because people have to cried the underground in the shelter there is start to just put supplies. and even if you go out and stay in the queue in front of the shop to get some wall for breath, you can become a target for another russian me file attack. and very, i want to bring in a video comment we have from someone our community there, we're building cat. this is a journalistic research organization that has been collecting what may 1 day be considered war crimes. here listen to this. last thursday, we published a map that you can find at ukraine, dot belin, cat dot com, showing incidents of civilian harm and civilian infrastructure being impacted within the country. we began our collection and archiving of these incidents when invasion started on february 24th. and our continuing up until present day. so far

we have over $400.00 incidents of civilian harm. and we unfortunately expect this number to grow as the conflict persists. when you view the map, you can filter by the kind of civilian area that's been affected. whether that's residential, such as the apartment block that we've seen, destroyed, health care such as the maternity hospital that was impacted with child care such as kindergarten. that was also hit. we are archiving each of these incidents for potential justice and accountability efforts that we might see in the months and years to come. or i want to show you my laptop. now i have bellingham abs map up, maria. i'm going to zoom in on car thief where you are and you can really, right, it's like everywhere in the city, you can click on these little purple circles and it'll give you photos, videos of what appears to be an apartment, buildings, condos. yeah,

yeah. that's the definitely the scenes of they will not do that. so we now see in the heart you see defensive because the heart gives a wide net. so q and some of the buildings, most of them are historical, build them built before they go to to, to why is that fear? now they are destroyed by russia who says they're here to liberate and then the defy ukraine in harkey rejection and never want to be liberated by russian troops. and you go to a specialist try can because hard give the rush and he can seek and there was an oil was like that the see. and they say no legitimize and so use. and they thought it didn't 15 cation to legitimize the attacks on residential areas. it is sonton incredible and that sort of flies so out of russian state

officials and state me there. that's just johnson you cannot believe happening. yeah, it's hard to believe looking at some of this destruction on my computers you were talking. it's hard to believe you're actually in this the city right now. now, ok, there are a number examples. there is a shortage of examples, rich of cities that seem to be targeting targeted with indiscriminate shelling. i want to talk about marrow pulled just for a moment because we have a theater there where it seems like in the ground in russian. they put it says children outfront is is that what the says outside the theater? yes, it says children. exactly. yes. and then the theater i'm showing now my computer ends up being bar. does a bomb shelter under it were told about 1300 people are thought to have taken shelter there. and we know of somewhere around $130.00 that have come out of the rubble. so far, although we haven't seen another number, and maria,

one more for you before we go direct, you were just telling us a story that's breaking their now out. marable, will you share that again, please? yeah, that awful news that comes right now that about the q ration bosses with children crime and out of money. and these bosses bought shells and we don't have any non but yet the cash ologist and best buy there will be for sure. and then, well, the awfulness of this situation is because we do not have any connection with the people in murray. why is that? because russia going in circles, thumb or down, it takes all measures to cause any communication. so there will be no possibility to speak to the people there and get any news about what the actual happening. and that's what the game is in mind. that's why we don't know how many kids are in the seats are there are now with children who go in this column of bosses because

russia deliberately makes it impossible to get any data from from the play. so of course, they do not want us to document the war crimes committed by russian job, which leads exactly to why you're there. right. rich. that's absolutely right and, and this is absolutely the case there's, it's very, very difficult to get information out of variable. and so in order to get more information i traveled to up or during this period of time or several 1000 residents from variable, we've had no contact with the world since early march. i'm just no contact, no water, no electricity, no heating and freezing cold conditions. and then all described to, to me and my colleagues about 30 interviews just span a couple of days. and they just described to us absolute health scape, a place under constant shelling,

describing their neighbors being killed by explosive weapons. as they went out to collect water or to get food or to make food because they were forced to do so on open fires. because there's, there's no electricity, there's no gas. and so this is really, i mean, this is an example of how awful the situation can get and is for civilians in ukraine right now. and honestly the fact that we don't have this information on the theater is absolutely terrifying. not just as we look at it from here when we see the devastation and destruction. but i spoke to families who left the theater just before it was attacked. and there was one family in particular, told me that there they left their grandmother or their mother there in the, in the theater. and they have no idea what happened to her when i called them yesterday to ask if they had any news. they said, we know as much as you do, all we see is what's in the news. so this information block out makes it very

difficult, not just for us to know what's going on, but for the loved ones who have been forced to leave people behind. so rich, when you're documenting this, is there a distinction between documenting the horrors of war and documenting a possible war crime? are there certain things that you have to make sure to get? sure, absolutely. and of course, there's no shortage of war crimes that had been numerated in the various statutes, an under international humanitarian law, or what we call the laws of war. and so when we're doing this documentation, we're looking for specific ellen, depending on the crime. so let's you know, intentionally directing attacks and civilians or an indiscriminate attack which is basically just an attack that isn't directed with anything in particular or something like a disproportionate attack, which basically means launching an attack on, on something where you expect there to be excessive civilian harm,

and that is excessive in relation to the to be military advantage game. so these are a lot of the, what we're, what we're looking at and what i can tell you is that what we've been documenting day in and day out in ukraine from the beginning of the war, indiscriminate attacks and disproportionate attacks and attacks that this look like they might be intentionally directed to do so though, one of the really difficult things about documenting these types of attacks is trying to understand this intentionality element. yeah, that's exactly what i wanted to bring up, or frederick out that intentionality, seem so subjective. how do you prove someone's intentions? yes, indeed, a short over having access to written orders by military and political leaders, that direct earth forces to conduct a task. you have to infer intentionality from the evidence of what you see in the case of ukraine. we've heard of the numbers, you know,

would have 400 confirmed attacks by invalid cut. we've seen that specific is like those you mention, or like the maternity ward where the russians have very precise weapons. so they have used and they've hit military or civilian targets. in the case of the maternity ward, for example, we've heard the russian foreign minister claim that there had been turned into a military target by, by a military ukrainian forces. yet he provided no evidence of that, and in fact, even earn into international journalists who were able to get to the crime state the 280 jonathan. were there documented the fact that there, where mothers and pregnant women in that her maternity were so short of proving proven, written orders, i think, inferring, also from past behavior we have, we have seen the russian military forces adopt very similar techniques and tactics in chechnya and in syria,

where i've been dish analogy was clearly they are to attack civilian targets and then attacking the residential neighborhoods like maria will say, where that is clearly no military target nearby. that seems again to suggest intentionality. it is up to the russian military to prove that in each and every single case of this, there was a military target that they were trying to hit. but it's, it's going to be difficult when the number of a tassel signal in targets is so high. well, let me ask you this, is that the fact that russia did this in syria, in a didn't have as big of an international outcry that does that somehow validate them doing it in ukraine? well, definitely if we have to look at a one root cause of what is happening, ukraine is impunity and impunity definitely for what happened in syria, but also for what happened in sri lanka and in so many other parts of the world in the when the was in one then, and for me,

he was love in the 1990 to broke out and it was his work committee. the international community was set, steadfast and creating international tribunals. this commitment to impunity to her accountability, despite the creation of intellectual could be that court has faded and we are seeing the results. this is the, the price that we're paying for, the purity that we have been seeing over the last 1020 years in so many copied zones i want to talk about. and russia is, oh, oh yeah. oh no, please. maria, please go. yeah, i just wanted to, i had a little on the rush and there's information on that because i have seen the last day, russian official glade, me and we we have just to remind in that much rain at the hospital, one of each gave birth to a baby, and they are alive, both of them and the other one that was carried out of the hospital. she later died with your unborn child. and russian officials claim in the all over that

this is one woman an actress, and that is worth all stage. and i cannot believe that, that kind of outrageous light, we see comment from russian, faith media and the shelves. they're, you know, they're saying that and they claim that it is the case and not on business, but other cases of this information, for example, like we now see today will be chemical weapons in install my. so the chemical rep on the story a plant was during that night. so this night actually, and there was an ammonium leakage. and the russian again, say that this is ukrainian forces could be that exploded there. what's the position in some of that? and the moment the chemical disaster might happen because the, the more known fulfill it, this brush over shelves, the during the night. you know,

we have a doctor that we want to bring in from cave. listen to this, this, the sort of sound we have. cook was more than illness, so let me do our job. the question is, how is it possible to day, how come the world is allowed for some people to come to ukraine and kill our children? this is my question to you housed as possible. what kind of animal one must be to kill children? almost a $120.00 children have been killed in ukraine already. and these are only the children we know about. they do it on purpose to drop bombs and orphanages maternity hospitals, children's hospitals. how is this possible to day that was certainly, carolyn referred to attention. josh, if i may and jump in. this is why documentation is so important. why the work done by people read reach is important, but also why it's crucial an international criminal court. as you know, has opened an investigation, the prosecutor was very quick. he, nobody knew investigation for a possible war crimes in ukraine and a thank investigators into the country during the active stage of conflict,

which is usually not the case with the i. c. c or international criminal court. and this is ultimately one of the most important places where this war crimes can be confirmed and judged at the i. c as well as you need to in domestic course around the world. so everyone should be on notice. anyone who is participating war crimes from the foot soldier to whoever is giving orders can be prosecuted before the international criminal court. there is no statute of limitations which means day 10203050. yes. people can still be prosecuted for describes, well, i think everyone can use jonah. yeah, yeah. go ahead, return. wanna, i wanna double down to what you're saying. you're saying that they can be any soldiers can be convicted of war crimes. there's no statute limitations and it doesn't matter if russia is not a member of the i c, c, every soldier at every rank needs to know they can be prosecuted for war crimes. is that what you're saying for draco? that's?

that's correct. indeed, it is up to the international criminal court to determine which level of participation will warrant a prosecution. but because it ukraine has accepted jurisdiction from the international criminal court. all crimes committed in ukraine by national of any country in the world can be subject to prosecution and international criminal court . rich go. yeah, i just wanted to, i mean, that's absolutely correct and it is extremely important. and it's really positive that the international criminal court has opened up an investigation. and hopefully this is the start of an end to impunity. not just for crimes can, is committed by russia and this conflict, but for all war crimes committed in any conflict. but the one thing that i wanted to add is that it's not just the international criminal court here who can and issue looking and looking at prosecuting individuals for committing war crimes. there's a number of different states like spain, german, even sweden has discussed the possibility of opening up investigations for war

crimes. committed under so called universal jurisdiction statutes that allow them to prosecute individuals in their jurisdictions for committing war crimes. and this is, this is a really positive step. this is where we've seen progress in conflicts like syria and elsewhere. what's so that it's not just this one body, but it's multiple bodies. and the whole point of this is that individuals who committed war crimes are not face anywhere from, from prosecution and cannot, cannot enjoy impunity. and that's really important. the international community comes together and decides that they're going to hide by their obligations to prop, to find and prosecute individuals who commit war crimes. in fact, if i many 6 european countries as of today have said that they will open investigation into a crime committed in ukraine and corporate with the international criminal court a. but when you're told where it important to bring this information to russian or

dance to russian. because russia located in every fan, they have their own. now information, feel better in the rush, not allowing any, any real information to come there. so that is very important to bring these, these all very important, very important update to russian people. so they will know that if they come here to ukraine and commit this crime, that will feel the criminal order and use the weapons against reveal, and they will be prosecuted, then they shall know that before they, they have it. should they do that and they commit these crimes and russia was sure it's ryan to cover every and up and do not give any put the deal to put this information to arrive to rush and they even, they do not get even give the number the total number of, lot of them on the military to the, to the russian audience. so they will not know the truth,

but that's important. also to put these information there. so they will, they will be aware of what is, what will be in the future. and that this trial will be and they will be responsible for the crime. you know, frederick is i was just following orders. is that defense that will work or is it every single person with every single trigger can be held accountable? yeah, unfortunately that will not fly in the sense that of following. you know, that his manifesto illegal is not an excuse for anyone responsible for what crap. so if someone is, is order to shoot a civilian and they should a civilian, they are complicit and war crimes, even though they had received an order. really great question out of our youtube audience here. it says how hard is it to prove the civilians were targeted verse, collateral killings in warfare when trying to prosecute potential war crimes rich, can you jumping on that? yeah, i mean, we touched on this

a little bit briefly in the, in the show earlier. it can be difficult to prove intentionality, right? so this is the culpable mental state. is the sort of the lawyer speak. federico talked about this, which is, you know, how do we, how do we get to that without specific orders? and you know, one of the ways that we can get to that is, is to infer by the conduct of forces in various areas. and this is something that we infected in syria as well with the repeated targeting civilian objects such as hospitals. you're getting things like precision guided weapons for highly accurate weapons that make it clear that they hit what they were intending to hit. there is not, these weapons are so accurate that there wasn't a mistake. and so we can take that kind of information and use that to support the inference that was an intentional attack. yeah,

i want to share something on my computer real quick and come right back to frederick. this is from peter mauer. he's had the i c r c. he is in key at the moment and he has a pretty good thread here. i'm going to retweet this has to be at josh rushing, but he talks about what needs to happen to protect civilians moving forward. says concrete agreements that would allow safe passage out to cities like mary paul to allow humanitarian aid in to ensure that those who aren't part of the fight are protected to it's along with that kind of goes on. and on rodrigo, what are the odds of us seeing the russian military take these kind of steps moving forward, sweat? unfortunately, from what we are seeing, he doesn't look like he, however, since they, the russian military and government continued to say that they are not targeting civilians. these are precisely the kind of actions they can take to prove that they're not targeting civilians allows evaluation, allow the passage of aid to to civilians. stop using weapons like dumb bombs and

platen munitions that using dessie populated areas. we inevitably, her habit civilians short of a ceasefire and a peace agreement, which is the only thing that can stop this bloodshed. these are concrete steps that can show a true willingness to spare civilians. you know it's, it's nothing new civilians being the ones who suffer the most and war seems like that's the way it always works out. ok. it's good to know that we have people on the ground document and he has things as best they can likes on vargas today. i want to thank all of our guests for being with us today and thank you for being a part of the stream. and for the whole cur here, well, we'll see you tomorrow. ah, [000:00:00;00]

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a plane as we climb up. the teams mentally prepare for their job. i try to do the same then minutes later, once the earth is just a blurb below, it's time to free fall. ah hello, i'm barbara. so in london, these are the top stories on al jazeera. at least 8 people have been killed in a rush and strike on a shopping mall in the ukrainian capital. keith russia says it was being used to store and launch rockets. a curfew has now come into effect with key officials fearing yet more attacks. meanwhile, ukrainian forces have refused to lay down their arms and whether you pull, the port city has been under almost constant bombardment with no food medicine