freakish events that just will be very interesting for our sciences to study. going into the future. astronomers have reached a major milestone in their search for alien worlds after 30 years of looking. they've now discovered more than $5000.00 so called exit planets. those are outside our own solar system. nasa says it could be billions more waiting to be discovered . ah, so this is out there are, these are the top stories and ukraine says it's forces have regained control of a keep suburb as fighting rages north, west of the capitol beecher austin well open have been under attack for weeks. the city is under curfew, off to heavy shelly on monday, killed several people. the un secretary general says ukrainians are enduring and living hell attorney, i can terrace urge russians who in the invasion 10000000 ukrainians have been forced from their homes and that on the move that the war is going nowhere

fast for more than 2 weeks. mario ball has been encircled by the russian army and relentlessly bumped shelves and a deck for what? even if malleable, falls, ukraine can not be conquered. city by city, streets, by streets, house by house. the president is warning. russia could resort to using chemical weapons in ukraine. joe biden didn't provide any evidence, but said vladimir putin could escalate the violence since he still faces resistance from ukrainian forces. a russian quarter sentence, criminal critic, lexi nev. i'll need to a further 9 years in a maximum security prison executed, embezzling donations from his anti corruption foundation, devoutly denies the charges saying they are politically motivated. members of parliament in sri lanka had voted to amend the controversial anti terrorism law. this comes 43 years after the legislation was 1st introduced as

a temporary measure law had allowed security forces to detain suspects without trial. the un says more than 300000 children in somalia or severely malnourished countries going through its worst drought and 40 years more than half a 1000000 farmers had heard us have lost their crops and animals. the c e o of boeing has offered its full technical support to china after passenger plane crash in southern going she province. on june, 32 people were on board when it came down on monday chinese president, she aging ping has ordered an investigation. a prominent nationalist figure from the french island of corsica has died in hospital of to be attacked in prison. yvonne colona was in a coma or to be assaulted by another prisoner at state with headlines. more news coming up right after stream the fe, just there, and it's time for a different approach. one that is going to challenge the way you think left leaves implicitly to the headlight join me as i take on the lies. this man or the

misconceptions and debate the contradictions upfront with me, mark lamond hill. what out 0 with i am josh rushing of billing and for a for me. okay. and you are in the stream today. civilians under fire and ukraine as reports of delhi attacks on civilians grow. so to calls for adherence to the rules of war. we'll look at the apparent targeting of civilians in this conflict and ask our war crimes being committed and it rushes war on ukraine. ah, since body began late february, craning residential neighborhoods, hospital schools and buildings use a civilian shelters have endured attacks by russian forces. those forces have also been accused of shooting at civilians who are fleeing the war. the un says more than 900 civilians have been killed in ukraine. russia denies any deliberate

attacks on civilians. today will look at the issue of civilians casualties and what can be done to prevent further loss of life. with us to talk about this in the v, richard, we're a researcher with human rights watch inter keep maria deva, a research director with the european expert association and from the hague. we have better eco barinello, executive director with the center for civilians and conflict. and oh yeah, one more person at this discussion is you, if you're watching this live right now on youtube that box over there. we have a live stream producer waiting to get your comments to me so that i can get them to our audience, our panel, a guests who are with me right now. i'm going to begin with maria because you're and kirk heave and car keys has been hard hit. can you just give us an update on, on the situation and what the city there looks like right now for you?

the city found a constant shell and for the war started on the 24th. so february and the last couple of days, especially in town. so i hear the shell and not non stop day and night, but in different regions of the city. that means that russia is specifically target to residential area because there is a dentist shout areas. i'm what's situated on the outskirts of mass destruction on this report that around 1000 buildings was completely destroyed because of the rush and shower. i myself and out of my hall a couple of days ago. and so gloucester munition rocket lie and just on the pavement because it didn't explode and they're all 5 of these shell over the place . so that means that the many people are now lean or forced to flee harkins because russia is deliberately terrorized, then revealed and threatening them, making them flee their homes or destroying their homes and making it's impossible

to leave there any more because people have to cry the underground in the shelter there is start to just put supplies. and even if you go out and say in a q in front of the shop to get some wall for bed, can become a target for another russian me file attacks. and i want to bring in a video comment we have from someone in our community there, we're building cat. this is a journalistic research organization that has been collecting what may 1 day be considered war crimes. here listen to this. last thursday, we published a map that you can find at ukraine, dot belin, cat dot com, showing incidents of civilian harm and civilian infrastructure being impacted within the country. we began our collection and archiving of these incidents when invasion started on february 24th and are continuing up until the present day. so far we have over 400 incidents of civilian harm and we unfortunately expect this

number to grow as the conflict persists. when you view the map, you can filter by the kind of civilian area that's been affected. whether that's residential, such as the apartment block that we've seen destroyed, health care such as the maternity hospital that was impacted with child care such as kindergarten. that was also hit we are archiving each of these incidents for potential justice and accountability efforts that we might see in the months and years to come. i want to show you my laptop. now i have bellingham abs map up marie . i'm going to zoom in on her if you were, you are and you can really right. it's like everywhere in the city, you can click on these little purple circles and it'll give you photos, videos of what appears to be an apartment buildings condos. ah, yeah. yeah. i know that that that's the definitely the scenes of their role to not

do that. we now see in the heart of cit, defense because the hike if survived. net. so keep based on that. and some of the bill danced most of that much historical build of build before they're all good to and there's to why that, that it now they had destroyed by russia who says that he had to liberate and didn't to fight ukraine. now in harkey, we check so and never wanted to be liberated by russian troops and you can read a specialist, tried can, because high given the russian speaking seat and there was an oil was like that the see and be say no legitimizing. and so using the, so it didn't, it's if you cation as to legitimize the attacks on the residential area, that is thompson incredible. and that sort of flies. so i russians, state officials and state media. that's just johnson you can not believe happening . yeah, it's hard to believe looking at some of this destruction on my computer. you're

talking, it's hard to believe you're actually in this the city right now. now, ok, there are a number examples. there is no shortage of examples. rich of cities that seem to be targeting targeted with indiscriminate shelling. i want to talk about marrow pulled just for a moment because we have the theater there where it seems like in the ground in russian they put, ah, is as children outfront as it is that what the says outside the theater? yes, it says children. exactly. yes. and in the theater i'm showing now on my computer ends up being bob does a bomb shelter under it were told about 1300 people were thought to have taken shelter there. and we know of somewhere around $130.00 that have come out of the rebels so far, although we haven't seen another number. and maria, one more for you before we go to rush, you were just telling us the story. this breaking their now out of marable,

will you share that again, please? yeah, that's all follow news that that comes right now that a curation process with children, comment out of mario. and these bosses bought shells and we don't have any non but yet the casual interest and best of luck there will be for sure and be there while the awfulness of this situation is because we do not have any connection with people in marry. what is that? because russia run it, and so it goes to some city or town, it takes all measures, got any communication. so there will be no possibility to speak to the people there and get any news about what the actual, the happening. and that's what the case is in my view. that's why we don't know how many kids relatives in the m a c. or there are now with this children who go in this column of boston. because russia deliberately makes it impossible to get any

data from, from the place. and of course they do not want us to document what crimes committed by us, which leads exactly to why you're there. right. rich. that's absolutely right. and, and this is absolutely the case. there's, it's very, very difficult to get information out of mario cool. and so in order to get more information i traveled to, or during this period of time or several 1000 residents from variable, we've had no contact with the world since early march, i'm just no contact, no water, no electricity, no heating and freezing cold conditions. and then all described to, to me and my colleagues about 30 interviews just span a couple of days. and they just described to us absolute health scape, a place under constant shelling, describing their neighbors being killed by explosive weapons. as they went out to collect water or to get food or to make food because they were forced to do so on

open fires. because there's, there's no electricity, there's no gas. and so this is really, i mean, this is an example of how awful the situation can get is for civilians in ukraine right now. and honestly the fact that we don't have this information on the theater is absolutely terrifying. not just as we look at it from here when we see the devastation and destruction. but i spoke to families who left the theater just before it was attacked. and then one family in particular, told me that there they left their grandmother or their mother there. in the, in the theater and they have no idea what happened to her when i called them yesterday to ask if they had any news. they said, we know as much as you do. all we see is what's in the news. so the information blocked out makes it very difficult, not just for us to know what's going on, but for the loved ones who have been forced to leave people behind. so rich,

when you're documenting this, is there a distinction between documenting the horrors of war and documenting a possible war crime? are there certain things that you have to make sure to get? sure, absolutely. and of course, there's no shortage of war crimes that had been a numerator in the various statutes and under international humanitarian law, or what we call the laws of war. and so when we're doing this documentation, we're looking for specific ellen, depending on the time. so let's you're intentionally directing attacks at to billions or an indiscriminate attack, which is basically just an attack that isn't directed with anything in particular or something like a disproportionate attack, which basically means launching an attack on, on something where you expect there to be excessive civilian harm, and that is excessive in relation to the, to the military advantage game. so these are a lot of the, what we're,

what we're looking at, what i can tell you is that what we've been documenting day in and day out in ukraine from the beginning of the war, indiscriminate attacks and disproportionate attacks and attacks that look like they might be intentionally directed to do so though, one of the really difficult things about documenting these types of attacks is trying to understand this intentionality element. yeah, that's exactly what i wanted to bring up, or for draco, that intentionality, seem so subjective. how do you prove someone's intentions? yes, indeed, short of having access to written orders by military and political leaders that direct forces to conduct a task. you have to infer intentionality from the evidence of what you see in the case of ukraine. we've heard that the numbers would have 400 confirmed attacks by invalid cut. we've seen that specific cases like those you mention,

or like the maternity ward where the russians have very precise weapons. so they have used and they've hit military or civilian targets. in the case of the maternity ward, for example, we've heard the russian foreign minister claim that there had been turned into a military target by, by a military ukrainian forces. yet he provided no evidence of that. and in fact, even into international journalists who were able to get to the crime state the 280 jonathan, what are their documented, the fact that there where mothers and pregnant women in that her maternity were so short of proving proven, written orders, i think, inferring, also from past behavior we have, we have seen the russian military force is adult, very similar techniques and tactics in chechnya and in syria where the dish analogy was, clearly they are to attack civilian targets and then attacking birds eventually neighborhoods

like maria will say, where that is clearly, no military target nearby, that seems again to suggest intentionality. it is after the russian military to prove that in each and every single case of this, there was a military target that they were trying to hit. but it's, it's going to be difficult when the number of a tassel signal in targets is so high. well, let me ask you this, is that the fact that russia did this and syria in a didn't have as big of an international outcry that somehow validate them doing it in ukraine? well, definitely if we have to look at it one root cause of what is happening, ukraine is impunity and impunity definitely for what happened in syria. but also for what happened in sri lanka ending so many other parts of the world in the when the was in $1.00 and $4.00. but he was love in the 1990 to broke out and cut off his work committee. the international community was set, steadfast and creating international tribunals. this commitment to impunity to her

accountability despite the creation of intellectual curb in our court has faded and we are seeing the results. this is the price that we're paying for, the purity that we have been seeing over the last 1020 years in so many got results i want to talk about and russia is a oh yeah. oh no, please. maria, please go. yeah, i just wanted to talk a little on the ration did information on that because i have seen the last days russian official claim me and we we have just so all these to remind in that much rain at the hospital, one of each gave birth to a baby and they are alive, both of them and the other one that was carried out of the hospital. she later died with your unborn child. and russian officials claim in the over that this is one woman an actress and that is worked on stage. and i cannot believe that,

that kind of outrageous light, we see comment from russian faith media and they're, you know, they're saying bets and they claim that the case and not only is it, but other cases of this information, for example, like we now see today, it will be chemical weapons in, in so my, so the chemicals up on the story. a plant what the shells during the night. so this knife actually and there was an ammonium leakage. and the russian again, say that this is ukraine. unfortunate. who did that? so actually there was the position in so much that any moment be chemical disaster might happen because the, the more known fulfill it this brush over shells the during the night we have a doctor that we want to bring in from cave. listen to this, this the fit of sound we have cook was more than i'm not sure. let me do our job.

the question is, how is it possible today, how come the world is allowed for some people to come to ukraine and kill our children? this is my question to you, housed as possible. what kind of animal one must be to kill children. almost a 120 children have been killed in ukraine already, and these are only the children we know about. they do it on purpose, they drop bombs and orphanages maternity hospitals, children's hospitals. how is this possible today? that was okay with them. josh, if i may and jump in, this is why documentation is so important. why the work done by people right? reach is important, but also why it's crucial that the international criminal court has, you know, has opened an investigation. the prosecutor was very quick in opening investigation for possible war crimes in the ukraine and a sand investigators into the country. julie at this stage of conflict, which is usually not the case with the i c, c or international criminal court. and this is ultimately one of the most important

places where this war crimes can be confirmed and judged at the i. c, as well as you need to in domestic course around the world. so everyone should be on notice anyone who is participating war crimes from the foot soldier to whoever is giving orders can be prosecuted before the international criminal court. there is no statute of limitations which means day 10203050 people can still be prosecuted for describes well i think i responded. he was younger. yeah. go ahead. i just want to double down to what you're saying. you're saying that they can be, any soldiers can be convicted of war crimes. there's no statute limitations. and it doesn't matter if russia is not a member of the i c, c, every soldier at every rank needs to know they can be prosecuted for war crimes. is that what you're saying, rodrigo? that's, that's correct. indeed, it is up to the intellectual criminal court to determine which level of participation will warrant prosecution. but because it,

ukraine has accepted jurisdiction from the international criminal court. all crimes committed in ukraine by national of any country in the world can be subject to prosecution of international criminal court. rich go yeah, i just wanted to, i mean that's absolutely correct and it is extremely important and it's really positive, but the international criminal court has opened up an investigation. and hopefully this is the start of an end to impunity. not just for crimes can, is committed by russia and this conflict, but for all war crimes committed in any conflict. but the one thing that i want to add is that it's not just the international criminal court here who can and issue looking and looking at prosecuting individuals for committing war crimes. there's a number of different states like spain, german, even sweden has discussed the possibility of opening up investigations for war crimes. committed under so called universal jurisdiction statutes that allow them

to prosecute individuals in their jurisdictions for committing war crimes. and this is, this is a really positive step. this is where we've seen progress in conflicts like syria and elsewhere works so that it's not just, there's one body, but it's multiple bodies. and the whole point of this is that individuals who committed war crimes are not face anywhere from, from prosecution and cannot, cannot enjoy impunity. and that's really important. the international community comes together and decides that they're going to hide by their obligations to prop, to find and prosecute individuals who commit war crimes. many 60 countries today have said that they will open investigation into what crime committed in ukraine and corporate with the international criminal court a. but when you're sending over is important to bring this information to russian or dance to russian. because russia located in every fan, they have their own,

they're not information, feel better in the rational, not allowing any, any real information to come there. so that is very important to bring this all very important, very important update to rush people. so they will know that if they come here to ukraine and commit this crime, that whole field is criminal order and use the weapons against reveal, and they will be prosecuted. then they shall know that before they, they have to, they do that and they commit these crimes and russia for sure. it's ryan to cover every and up and do not give any put the deal to put this information to arrive to rush. and they, even, they do not get even give the numbers the total number of last of them on the military to the, to the russian audience. so they will not know the truth. but that's important also to put these information there. so they will, they will be aware of what is,

what will be in the future and that this trial will be and they will be responsible for the crime. you know, frederick is, i was just following orders. is that defense that will work? or is it every single person with every single trigger can be held accountable? yeah, unfortunately, that will not fly in the sense that a following in order that is manifesto illegal, is not an excuse for anyone responsible for what crap. so if someone is, is order to shoot a civilian and they should a civilian, they are complicit in war crimes, even though they had received an order. really great question out of our youtube audience here. it says how hard is it to prove the civilians were targeted? burst. collateral killings in warfare when trying to prosecute potential war crimes rich, can you jump in on that? yeah, i mean, we've touched on this a little bit of briefly in the show earlier. it can be difficult to prove

intentionality, right? so this is near the culpable mental state, is the sort of the lawyer speak that, but you know, federico talked about this, which is, you know, how do we, how do we get to that without specific orders? and you know, one of the ways that we can get to that is, is to inform by the conduct of forces in various areas. and this is something that we infected in syria as well as the repeated targeting or civilian objects such as hospitals, using things like precision guided weapons or highly accurate weapons that makes it clear that they hit what they were intending to hit. there is not in these weapons are so accurate that there wasn't a mistake. and so we can take that kind of information and use that to support the inference and it was an intentional attack. yeah. how i want to share something on my computer real quick and come right back to you, frederick. this is from peter mar. he's

a ahead of these. i c r c. he is in key at the moment and he has a pretty good thread here. i'm going to retweet, this'll be at josh rushing, but he talks about what needs to happen to protect civilians moving forward. says concrete agreement. so allow safe passage out to cities like mariel pull to allow humanitarian aid in turn. sure that those who aren't part of the fighter protective to it, it's along with that kind of goes on and on, frederick oh, what are the odds of us seeing the russian military take these kind of steps moving forward? well unfortunately from what we are seeing, he doesn't look like he. however, since the, the russian military and government continued to say that they are not targeting civilians. these are precisely the kind of actions they can take to prove that they are not targeting civilians. allow safe accusation allow us 8 bye o 82 to civilians. stop using weapons like dumb bombs and platen munitions that using bessy populated areas. we inevitably, her habit civilians short of

a ceasefire and a peace agreement, which is the only thing that can stop is bloodshed. these are concrete steps that can show a true willingness to spare civilians. you know it's, it's nothing new civilians being the ones who suffer the most and war seems like that's the way it always works out. ok, it's good to know that we have people on the ground documenting these things as best they can like some of our guest today. i want to thank all of our guests for being with us today and thank you for being a part of the stream. and for the whole, curr here, well, we'll see you tomorrow. ah, a

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a whole lou. ah ah. this is al jazeera ah hello, this is the news. our live from doha. i'm fully back table with continuing extensive coverage of the war in ukraine, another day of constant bombardment for ukraine, 2nd largest city, rushes defense ministry posts videos of damage. unit said says is a growing threat for 7 and a half 1000000 children will look at the extra steps being taken to help them.