this is true as the 1st african comedian to, to perform at madison square garden. you won't be the last. you just opened it yet . it is made it easier for someone to come in like, i feel like i can do it. they say, hm, it comes from that moment, the more that there's not wanted to go to the classroom that we have, like more than africa. we believe that we will the funniest before was if you go, we have amazing stories here. and the more we keep on pushing the more keep on doing this, the show that we shall blow up. ah, hello again. i'm fully battle with the headlines on al jazeera, ukrainian officials say almost 40 people have been killed in a russian rocket strike on a train station in the east of the country. the kremlin has denied being behind the attack, but ukraine's president, as accused russia deliberately targeting civilians. this is an ordinary railway

terminal. crowded with people waiting for trains to be evacuated, to safer areas. they hit these people. there are witnesses, there are videos, there are remnants of the missiles and dead people about 30 killed and 300 wounded . as of this moment, again, this is just an ordinary railway station, just an ordinary town in the east of ukraine. this is how russia came to protect the dumbass region, how they viewed the protection of the russian speaking population in law, european commission, president os lavonne de leon has boarded a train to cave. she will, she will hold talks with vermin. lensky it is. it comes amid mounting international outrage over a ledge atrocities in ukraine. i mean, israel's prime minister has put security forces on maximum alert after a palestinian gunmen kill 2 people in tel aviv. authorities have closed the crossing into the occupied westbank in response to the shooting. odd abdul. hamid has more from tel aviv. a lot of people are not only shocked by,

by the fact that this gunman could come here in the heart of delivery. one of the busiest streets specially on a weekend and then it took them 9 hours to catch him in the meantime, he had gone all the way to jeff. it's only 4 kilometers away from here, but certainly buys really standers were usually a gun man. are sort of shot immediately on the spot or they can run away, but we're very short time. this is a big security labs. us senators have made history by confirming the 1st black woman to serve as justice on the supreme court. 53 voted in favor of catan g brown, jackson with 47 against and more than half a 1000000 people in puerto rico are still without electricity after a fire power station. some intensive care units lost power during the blackout. those are the headlines on al jazeera, they'll be more news for you after inside story, stay with us. ah

. are allegations of ethnic cleansing and war crimes and ethiopia be ignored. rights groups accuse security forces of atrocities in the tig ry region. ethiopian government leaders say the allegations could fuel racial hatred. so what should the response be? this is inside story. ah hello and welcome to the program. i'm hammer, jim john, mass killings, rape, torture people, deprived of food and forcibly transferred there. some of the most serious

allegations from almost 18 months of war in the to gray region of northern ethiopia, anesthesia international and human rights watch. se evidence of ethnic cleansing and war crimes is being ignored internationally. their joint report focuses on the western to gray zone. it accuses officials and security forces from the neighboring m horror region of a coordinated campaign against tig ryan people. fighting since late 2020 has so far killed thousands of people and forced many more to seek refuge in neighboring sudan and eritrea. amnesty international and human rights watch are calling for the deployment of peacekeepers, led by the african union to protect civilians and accused the ethiopian government, a blocking aid workers and investigators from the war zone a. we have documented, a said i did. he had easy cases out of his body and as a unbuckled killings. forceful reports that exchanges taught at another force of

ill treatment. read a section, bonus destruction including go felicity and mass out of re threaded iris. zab, a mom to craze. i get a humanity and mom cries, ethiopians, government is pledging to make the guilty accountable, but says what it calls the reports ethnic undertones could feel hatred, and that the reports recommendations aren't helpful to piece efforts. the m har, regional government, is dismissing the war crimes allegations as lies. let's remind you of the main events in this conflict so far. fighting began in november 2021. ethiopia, as prime minister, ordered a military offensive against the to gray people's liberation. front of a i am had said he was responding to attacks on army bases following months of fighting to grow and fighters recaptured the regional capital mikella in june. by july the t p l f entered the neighboring. i'm horror and a far regions to the south. in october, the government launched a ground offensive to repel the rebels. they responded by recapturing the city of

lolly, bella. thousands had been killed and more than 2000000 people forced from their homes. ethiopians government declared a unilateral truce last month to allow much needed aid to be delivered to dry. this regards to this equation in a, it's your b r t gray in particular of course a v r i b can only be pleased about the truce that has been announced. and we have managed all whatever you can do for the 1st time in many months to bring a convoy of his 200 metric tons of humanitarian assistance by rolled into a t gray rece food rece, especially medical supplies, but also non food items. now right, let's bring in our guests from ethiopia were joined by an fitzgerald,

she's the director of the ball silly school of international affairs in canada and has worked in ethiopia for more than 20 years on issues concerning conflict, security and governance. in kenny as capital nairobi, leticia bater horn of africa, director with human rights watch and a contributor to the report in amsterdam, in the netherlands. deborah kiersten us governor, selassie a writer and researcher and the founder and editor of t got dot com. that's a website documenting the war, integrate a warm welcome to you all and thanks so much for joining us today. leticia, let me start with you today. these are very disturbing allegations that are outlined in this report from your group human rights watch. and amnesty international. could you please detail some of the other major findings in this report for our audience? well basically this is based on over a year of research which started at the outbreak of the conflict on speaking to

refugees who were fleeing from west and tig her in, in november and december, 2020. and what we find and we document in this report, all waves of very serious crime against the t k and population in western tingley in the 1st phase between november and december 2020. we document primarily war crimes by ethiopian federal government forces alongside am had our special forces and militia during the initial offensive in this region. and then from december 2020 onwards, we document waves of what we have described and found to be a campaign and organized campaign of ethnic cleansing. and as part of that campaign, we document and whole range of very serious abuses, extrajudicial killings, sexual violence, mass, incarceration in her rift attention conditions. and then the force expulsions

of hundreds of thousands of tig haynes from this area that that had been their home m. from your perspective, have you had a chance to read the report and what do you think about his findings? i think the objectives of the report is very sound to investigate something that reflects gross human rights violations, and atrocities. that said, i, i guess i'm wearing my research hot and i would ask some questions that are methodological in nature. so the researchers did not go to the area where the evidence that existed in the wall kite region itself. and secondly, the rover for $400.00. in fact, i think 427 interviews orchestrated and that's a very good number. however, on close examination of the foot notes, it seems that the evidence that led to the analysis was heavily weighted to the

interviews undertaken by the researchers when they were on the ground in sudan. and of course, you know that the group since you down at the time, not only included ethnic terrain groups that were unfortunately and tragically displaced from a to gray proper. but also um the sam ri youth arm of the t p l. a. fighters, which reports, i suggest 10, orchestrated the killings in my contra deaths, which the number continues to grow, but number over 1200. so that was the 1st methodological question i had. there were telephone calls that were made to an ethnic amara from the region of well kite, but these were small in number and we don't get a sense of number and we don't see that reflected so much in the report. i think

the other thing is that there is a big study by gander, a university on this very issue, which has been ongoing for over a year and research principles command literature review the front end. anybody who's next for it on these issues. and it's just strange that um, there's no reference to that report and the publication of this report has been unleashed 2 days before the planned publication. and launch of the gander university report on there is mass graves, i guess the last thing i'll say is that the content to me does not lend to the findings to draw such huge conclusions that um that, that accuse others of war crimes and ethnic cleansing needs a very deep investigation and a methodologically sound and robust investigation. so i do feel that there's

a slightly weak link between the content of the report and the findings of leticia and seems to have some misgivings with the methodology. would you like to respond to what she was saying? yeah, i'm, i'm very happy to. i mean, 1st of all, as we described very clearly in the methodology our research was ongoing and till january 2022. in the course of that. a lot of what we document, i mean the waves of abuses which happened from, from december 2020 onwards, were at a time where the federal government forces and them had militia were actually preventing people from fleeing into sudan. so a lot of the research which was done in sudan was on the early phases of the conflict, including a very detailed descriptions also of what happened in my camera. but, but a lot of that, the subsequent we research was actually done with individuals who were forcibly

exposed to as part of really this organized cap campaign of ethnic cleansing, which started from december 2020 onwards. and i mean, also we have corroborate a lot over testimonial findings with satellite imagery, including of the destructions of entire villages, as well as the movement of these organized convoys. here we're talking about individuals who were in detention facilities who were being taken from dest detention facilities. and bus to cross into the, to the ticket. it river area, which is seen as the natural boundary between these 2 parts of t go. but we're also talking about people who are coerced into leaving. they'd been living in a context of abuses of fear, of increasing discrimination against to diane's. we have a lot of detail in here in terms of what the literature, monitoring assistance was going into this area. this was an area where the

ethiopian government was in control of giving out assistance, wasn't instrumentalists. and that was used as one of the tools by discriminatory preventing tig hands from having access to that, making the context in which they were living in almost impossible to surviving. so i think, i think we can go on and on, on methodology for a long time. i mean, if you're here is a country where human right. fortunately for decades have been doing remote research in this is a context we have very used to operating in this type of, of context give here. so have you read the full report and if so, do you believe that it gives the full most comprehensive picture of what's going on on the ground or do you think that there's, there's more that needs to be reported? thank you. yes i did, and i'm happy that this report has started to scratch the

face of crimes community to guy, but it does have also a lot of limitation is some of it impacted by the government deliberately didn't allow and was saying now that you know, i did they didn't grow well, the reason they didn't grow that it because the government has a policy of total blockade in communications back out to make sure that no voice comes out of the guy. but it had also the problem of sticking to previous administer the report, which was really a dangerous report that became, i did very victims of the grand perpetrators of crimes. even if you know and then our lives. we are on the 9th of november in my cabra, we've written, i'm not about this, but the report is that, you know,

because it was the previous report that they entered my car that i was 9. and, you know, they quoted before. the truth is that they get to a government orchestrated crime, use it, amnesty, and to propagate the not a thing about the grants we are committing crimes. and if you did that report to got to buy, if you can again, the grants. now another thing that this report me says is that bigger cortex, but really what is happening here is that to dry as a result of its history, any place in ethiopia and in yoga edit, history is being wiped out as a policy. both government, new government has some kind of independent actor. what are they trying to do is they are trying to not only eliminate to region other

state, but also they are trying to totally eliminate that to grant people or reduce them according to the award is about a 1000000 people that don't pause any threat to both if you're in the area and this is, i think the bigger policy that the report mute i give her care. so i just want to follow up with you about something. you know, the feel be on government declared that there was an indefinite humanitarian truce . they declared that in late march, is that actually holding aid actually getting into to grow right now? no. they didn't. not getting into the guy. they only let about to ent, tuan, attract only to reset the not a piece that is to kind of like they got, they knew they go to the image that the 80 digging into the guy. we are now more than 2 weeks to the knowledge that they only one day to into our drive. why we know that i bought 100 truck, suppose the guy every day. so they have gone to the image. they have what the

narrative, international media that the guy but the police the, like i said before, you think that to grand population, to distribution math, that kind of ethnic pleasing. and it is working every every mean every hour. and they ask for peter, and i want to talk a little bit about the, the political picture in ethiopia right now. how complicated things are and also what actually has to happen for this conflict to come to an end. yeah, just like to say 1st of all that and forensic criminal evidence is required for this investigation into the mass graves. and that's the sort of thing that needs to be done to find conclusions and recommendations of the sort that the report has put forward. and that has yet to be done and is desperately needed. secondly, are in line with your question. i've just spent considerable time across the

northern region to be here. i have witnessed the huge levels of destruction and damage caused by the fighting left by the gran fighters. i have witnessed numerous mass graves, so the mass graves and wall kite are certainly not the only mass grave. and an investigation is going to happen on mass graves, it should be comprehensive. and thirdly, there are considerable numbers of 2 grand fighters, still occupying 5 regions in northern afar. for any humanitarian truce to be successful, those troops have to pull back. there are many of them and triangulated research across hundreds that were interviewed from these communities suggest numbers from 80002100000 the use of artillery and heavy weapons. there is no scope for

a humanitarian truce or a delivery in those circumstances. secondly, this war is not only affecting tig right, it is affecting 3 regions. i visited i d. p caps that are starving of food and water at the moment. well, the trucks that my fellow panelists refer to go past and go up to the region. there is great pressure for that aid to get the tick ryan that is terribly important. the 2 grands who i interviewed, who have come to the i d. p. camps across the border have not and stewed for a long time. but there are 3 communities here effected by the conflict 3 regional states. and i would summarize by saying that until the military activity is drawn to a conclusion and troops are drawn by their convenient humanitarian solution. because humanitarian goals are incompatible with military insurgency goals. and

there are a vast number of troops still across the 5 regions of a far so. so we're seeing it seems one side honor its commitment to humanitarian truth at the moment, but not the other party to the conflict. latisha, ethiopia, as government is pledging to make the guilty accountable. are you getting indications after the publication of the report? are you getting indications from government officials that that is actually going to happen? well, i mean maybe to follow up on one of the points on made, which i would say i would agree with. one of the big recommendations in this report is the need for ongoing international independent investigations. and, and that's part of that, that needs to be forensic expertise. one of the concerns we have with how long getting international investigations up and running into the the abuses in the hold of north and ethiopia is that we have documented incidence of destruction of

physical evidence. and there is an expertise which was required for the, the retrieval of bodies including ensuring that this is done in a way which is dignified as well. so we absolutely agree, and we have actually continue to call. we advocated for a new commission at the level of the human rights council in geneva to really look into this and to collect evidence, preserve evidence in, in a humane deepening fight manner to, to full picture accountability. i also just want to come to this the question of humanitarian truth, i mean under international humanitarian law. that does not need to be a truce for warring parties to allow on hindered humanitarian access. and i think it is important to continue to underline that what we have been seeing in to guy in particular, and the ongoing obstruction ultra monitoring assistance going in as

a result of federal government policies and actions, but also regional authorities security forces, etc. this is, constitutes a, you know, an effective siege on is a violation in itself, and i think it's important to continue to underline. humanitarian access cannot be used as a political tool. it should not be used with a consensus building measure. it is a responsibility of all the warring parties to allow that going in, in terms of commit to investigations. i mean, we have, in our report looked into what we have heard so far. i mean, one of the big concerns with weston, she goes, this is in many ways the elephant in the room is very contested. it is very complicated. but we've also heard very early on in the height of the, at the beginning of the ethnic cleansing, campaign denials from the federal government and the regional authority in the i'm had region. and so, you know, it is, it is positive to hear the government is going to look into our findings, but it is absolutely key that we continue to see. and we see the opening up of

a space for credible international and regional investigations into what has been happening as well. give or carry those from your perspective. why hasn't more action been taken by the international community. thank you. just want to respond to the points in the european government is the main engineer of this journal. it has a policy on how to implement this. i'm not making it. they even have taught european invoice pick. i have to talk about the law to why that to grant and quality what they said to him twice that the grand 400 years to destroy them for a 100 years. and this is to what they say to he. what we hear in the attic language every day is just how to eliminate that the grant. this is an open discussion how

to wipe them out. this is just every one of the authority stuff on the on media. so really what we are talking here, i don't know why we beauty fighting. you know, this is a party of genocide and it, everything that happens the a, the block, it is all, you know, part of the plan to completely wipe out that the grand in the long term. so, and was sucking her previously. you know about it again, it's coming out of to guy that is also the $42.00 late fee to them and then to defend them. and this is, this has been tried by the way, in 1984 by the criminal government. now it's not your care, so we don't need that big picture. so how do you expect government to what, why do you recommend that they get the government to act? it is the very,

very engineer of the general. so that's one thing. the other event, why the international community api, unfortunately doesn't have a lot of interest. and sadly, aid has been about to die. why? time, you know why, you know, want a downward, like, you know, they are because done it effectively. they know that this isn't good at, i knew about this. don't go out by the way, and the guy at me please me, please. but there is no new fact to date. they are finding 11 moment hon, finding with european companies. and you know, it's all business one because the guy not even producing refugees to be in the block in their communication. like out, shoot the water from seeing what is happening here. so i'm sorry, i'm sorry to interrupt, but we're just about out of time. i want to ask and one last question here, and we just have a but a minute left. amnesty international human rights watch are both calling for the

deployment of peacekeepers led by the african union to protect civilians. is that something you think might happen? i don't know. the deployment of peacekeepers would require agreement on all signs. that's a fundamental principle of international peacekeeping. i do think that what we're seeing now is the combination of conventional conflict and insurgency conflicts still insurgency shaped by a serious information campaign with misinformation and dis information. and what i would recommend is not peacekeepers so long as both sides respect a human, nana terry, and truth, and the t p l. a fighters withdraw from afar. but i think some verification and monitoring is desperately required. so an independent verification and monitoring a force would be an a you land, this is an african issue. this is,

or the african continent to support and resolve. but i think something that verifies information misinformation is vital. all right, well we have run out of time. we're gonna have to leave the conversation there. thanks so much to all of our guests and fitzgerald leticia bater and deborah kiersten. deborah, selassie and thank you for watching, you can see the program again any time visiting our website, al jazeera dot com and for further discussion, go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story. can also join the conversation on twitter. our handle is at a j inside story from emergent room and the whole team here in doha, ivan ah, ah,

the stage is set and it's time for a different approach. one that is going to challenge the way you thing was wor, inevitable. i just want to started to please don't it. they're not doing the right thing. let's leave simplicity to the headlines. join me as i take on the lars dismantled misconceptions and debate. the contradictions do we have a real democracy here in the united states? this not a political party, that's a radical insurgency, are mark lamond hill and it's time to get up front right here on out 0. african stories from african perspective isn't let out yet. as a okey day. so documentary from african fill me from mommy and synagogue. can you see that?

is it on the, on the device? it's big mamma elevate now, cuz she's, i'm not sure of the adventures also, but car and lead to africa di rates on al jazeera. ah, i'm about to sit in doha, the top stories on al jazeera, ukrainian officials say almost 40 people have been killed in a russian rocket strike on a train station. east ukraine, as an evacuation effort was underway at the time of the attack, more than a 100 people, a wounded, ukrainian president. let him use the landscape, described russia as an evil with no limits off to the attack. but done yes, separatist said the incident is a ukrainian provocation. this is an ordinary railway terminal. crowded with people waiting for train.