easier said than done for sure, but ultimately, you know, this is a little bit of a slide show. it's an enormously consequential slide show, depending on how it turns out. or it could just turn out to be nothing. and you know, one thing we have definitely seen about your mouth because he loves the spotlight and he's shown it ability to effectively hijack the new cycle by doing these things, making the tweet, making these offers. and i think you very much enjoy being provocative in that regard and twitter is not defenseless, but they're, they're certainly at the mercy of whatever you want is going to do. they're going to have to react. ah, all right, let's have a quick check of the headlines here, not there and police ukraine, say the bodies of hundreds of civilians have been found in areas surrounding the capital. discovery comes off to russian forces withdrew. most of the $350.00 corpses were also discovered in future. cha, stratford is more now from keith. more than 900 bodies discovered in what else or

to say, or approximately a 180 different sites, mainly around the capital city. and saying that the majority of those killed seem to have evidence of being shot at close range. now we know that obviously the ukranian government is pushing for russia to be tried for legit war crimes. a rescue teams in the philippines searching for people missing off to tropical storm meggy struck the islands more than 100 people have been killed and at least 200. a missing rescue is in south africa. a searching for survivors after the worst flooding in 6 decades. authorities to release emergency funds to help tens of thousands of people left without food or shelter. nearly 400 people have been killed and dozens injured. and heavy rains in bolivia forced more than 250 families from their homes. the river in pe long burst as banks, flooding roads, homes and businesses. some residents returned to their homes to salvage what they

could fare belonging. there being protests in the state of michigan against the police killing of a black man who has stopped while driving 26 year old patrick lawyer was killed on april. the 4th after was offices described at length. he struggled. video footage shows lawyer being shot in the back of the head. supporters of the pakistan people's party have been celebrating the ousting the prime minister run column and has gotten hundreds rallied outside the party's headquarters in karachi collins removed from office almost a week ago. after losing a new confidence that 3 chinese astronaut serv returned to us after 6 months on the country's newest space station. it is china's longest crude space mission. the crew landed a rover on mars and they sent probes to the moon. yet headlines. we have more news coming up right off the inside story. we'll see later on counting the cost latin america's inflation nightmare returns. governments bring prices down,

lebanon reaches the draft, deal with the map. will the nation implement reform and my stock because worth to price is gonna decade for fun, the much needed a counting the costs on al jazeera what's behind britain's plan to send asylum seekers to lawanda. the government says it's needed to deter undocumented migrant, cruel and inhumane with how rights group see it. so will the agreement work and can the rights of migrants be protected? this is inside sort. ah hello and welcome to the program. i'm how much of job being smuggled from france to britain by boat could earn you a one way ticket to a wanda. that's the british government's message to undocumented migrants making

the dangerous voyage across the english channel. an agreement between britain and rwanda means that single men will be flown to africa to have their asylum claims processed there. if they are found to be genuine refugees, there'll be no guarantee of settlement in the u. k. prime minister morse johnson says, action is needed to stop what he calls vile people. smugglers turning the channel into a watery graveyard rights groups condemned. the deal is cruel, expensive, and illegal under international law. the baba reports way way on the white cliffs of dover, looking out across the english channel, which separates britain from france. 600 people cross this narrow stretch of water by boat on wednesday. not a huge figuring the scheme of things, but under pressure for his johnson is determined to be seen to be doing something to stop the dangerous journey's position. and so more than 6000 kilometers away golly. his home secretary announcing the bishop's deal with the rwandan government

. in theory, anyone who enters the u. k. a virus called illegal root may be sent to rwanda. to have that claim for a site and processed those who are resettled will be given the support, including up to 5 days of training with the help of integration accommodation, health care, so that they can, we settle and drive through and, and governments getting an initial payments of roughly $156000000.00. it says it's a lot of people, protection and a chance to rebuild their life, even if they're asylum and claims on successful. meaning ones have experienced what it means to be displaced. this has shipped how we approach migration and a say don't one already provided a huge for almost 130000 if you use from multiple countries, including neighbors like the d, r a, c, and devonte israel as a forgiveness done. and my grants, if acquitted from libya, despite the words about ruined,

is often maurice johnson says the scheme should act as a deterrent to people thinking of crossing the channel. whatever the case is accepted, there will be legal challenges. in many ways, it's a clear breach of the 1951 united nations refugee convention. beyond that opposition politicians. and some conservatives from johnson's. i party have caught the whole idea, immoral, unworkable, and a huge waste of money. this government needs to create more safe routes. it needs to be looking at creating actually going to be a system, for example, where people can claim, assigned them in a country such as an embassy. and so that they don't have to put their money and their lives in the hands of people. there are many of the options to this to this issue. it's far from clear how much this scheme will cost beyond practicalities. many have expressed amazement that the choice of her wonder last year britain itself called for independent investigations into allegations of extrajudicial killings, deaths in custody, enforce disappearances and torture in the country. and rights groups have drawn

parallels with australia is experience of offshoring. asylum seekers saying, sending them to a wander will simply increase the risk to their physical and mental health. nadine barber al jazeera, britain's agreement has been compared to australia's offshore processing policy between 20012008. and since 2012 people who arrived by boat austria were sent to prisons and now ru, and manners island in pop one who guinea rights group say, australia violated his obligations under the u. n. refugee convention. detainees reported torture, sexual abuse, self harm, and mental illness. in 2017, the australian government was ordered to pay $52000000.00 in compensation to nearly 2000 manis island refugees. the policy is expected to cost australian taxpayers nearly 600000000 dollars this year to keep fewer than $230.00 people in offshore jails. let's speak to call boss yahoo. so the director of survivor empowerment at

the organization. freedom from torture. he has 1st hand experience of the you case asylum process. kumasi a thanks so much for joining us today. you had a harrowing journey getting to the u. k. what was your experience like arriving in the u. k. as a refugee and then being placed in detention and thank you very much and also thank you for having me. i think my experience of reaching the u. k was traumatic was horrendous and was heard. and i didn't know to have much over choice. but for me, the most important thing for me is to get some more which are offensive and i know that i will be protected and i know that i'm going to start building my life. and when i go into the u. k, i was really shocked by do fog. i was after presenting myself and

saying that i am here and i one protections. the next thing that happened to me i was put through detention immigration detention center. and i was my soup, my sort of sure into my system. and as a result of has she got, you know, do trauma of the journey or sort of trauma, persecution and wool and also torture in into me. and i start displaying some symptom of post trauma disorder and or to so i was quite shocked because i was in a process of being returned or departed bug, which i felt that i'm gonna be deported. but again, facing persecution and facing the thing that i just run away. and 2 areas you know, to get as far as possible from me. callback here, what are your thoughts when it comes to this agreement that's been announced

between britain and ro, wanda, that could see asylum seekers who arrive in the u. k being sent to a wanda to have their asylum claim processed there. i mean, you just spoke before about the trauma that you encountered, being in detention or in the u. k. could this be a much more traumatic experience if asylum seekers are deported if they're taken or if they're sent to rwanda to be processed? they're absolutely. i think that as an humane glen, by the euchre government to make a decision 1st and foremost, to win again our duty and the responsibility to refugees. and also the refugee convention, which we are seeking a to read to which we need to upon and which the international community respecting as to uphold that. what method are we sending to order or the other people. and

secondly, 80 was it will be immersive shop to any room for use or asylum seekers to find themselves after fleeing. after going through the traumatic, after taking the risk to get into a country where you think that you'll be safe, we think that you'll be protected to send somewhere somewhere. far away. which dead is not safe glares in that country. we have 100-8000 of ron ron rondon, which i in exile, which they have free dwanda to grow sick prediction some more as. so let's say that you know now the ukranian fleet, you grin coming to the u. k. the u. k. government, when a ship them to do rwanda for the refrigerators is to be processed in rwanda is absolutely unthinkable. ah.

all right, let's bring in our panel all joining us from the u. k. in london. my a good fellow on academic at the university of sheffield an author of hostile environment. how immigrants became scapegoats in nottingham, natalie hodgson, assistant professor in law at the university of nottingham who has done extensive research on australia's refugee policies. and in cambridge, emily mcdonnell u. k. advocacy and communications coordinator at human rights watch a warm welcome to you all, and thanks so much for joining us today on the program. emily, let me start with you today. the british government says that this new plan complies with international legal obligations that they have. what do you say is this new plan with rwanda, legal and beyond that, would it actually deter migration by boat the agreement to relocate asylum say? because arriving regularly to rwanda is essentially the case shirking responsibilities

under the refugee convention to paper taking a style up. it is very likely to be unlawful and basically represents the case shifting and exporting bear responsibility on to rolanda 6000 kilometers out of sight and out of mind. and in terms of its effectiveness, we know from the australia case that it wasn't effective, it was a failed or short attention regime, which actually sold by crossing increase. when the policy was 1st implemented. natalie, you heard the emily there say that essentially was a failed policy in australia. i want to ask you about this because there are a lot of people that are comparing this britain rewan to deal to the australian offshore processing system from the research that you have undertaken. did that actually work? has it worked and did the huge cost the in justify the means? astronomy is oh, sure, detention system has been severely criticized for being cruel to being

expensive and for being ineffective at what it sought out to achieve. if we look at the conditions in offshore detention, we can say that throughout the duration of his try is policy asylum seekers experienced very high levels of mental distress are employed by the united nations refugee agency in 2016 found that 89 percent of people and malice, island, and 83 percent of people on our route were suffering from a severe mental disorder whether that was depression or anxiety or post traumatic stress disorder. now, australia policy was introduced to stop asylum seekers traveling to australia by bart. however, serious policy began in 2012 and it wasn't until 2014 that both arrivals to australia began to decrease. so that's 2 years after the policy commenced. even then there was still asylum seekers traveling to australia by boat in 2017,

201820192020. so the policy did not achieve what it sought out to do. and finally, a story. his policy was very expensive. the $3127.00 asylum se has to be housed offshore. it cost destroy and tax pay is an average of $1000000000.00 per year. and in some years, 1500000000 dollars. my how much has a anti migrant and anti refugee sent him, had grown in the okay, the last few years and why is this happening now? and yeah, i think it's really important to think about how we got here. and i think is the short term in the longer term picture. and we need to look at both of those things . so if we look at what happens is the conservatives have come into power. they've really honed in on anti immigration and anti asylum sentiment. so a very good example of this is during high if the pandemic critique towel her british home secretary was essentially whipping up hysteria about people crossing

the channel. so whilst we were being told that our common humanity was all that really made in the context of the global health crisis, the government were dehumanizing and also mistreating many of these people. and i think one of the things to say about this in relation to some of the previous things that been said is that the aims are the wrong names. that one of the reasons that people are making these journeys, these very, very, very risky journeys. we will know that they are going missing their lives when they make them is that they haven't no other choice. and so is because of government board policies that people are forced to get into boats in the 1st place. but there is also in britain a longer term context, i think really matters here. so although brianna many other countries had restrictive policies prior to the 90 eighty's. my colleague, colleague, lucy maitland, has conducted work that shows that from the 1980s, the civically in laws became more restrictive around asylum. and she argues that

this is because it was people of color who were increasingly coming to you, kate claim asylum. so these were not the refugees that those so called west wanted . and so when i, when we talk about restrictive immigration systems, i think we need to sort and pick the way that these are my it in create, it's through racism. so the conservatives are able to perceive these policies and you know, this or blame lies that there with, with them for these specific policies. but there is a much longer term context is allow these policies to even be a political possibly. and i think we have to, with that she see as well as the president, emily, you were talking before about the similarities between what happened in australia and what might happen in britain between this deal with britain and rwanda. but i want to ask you how concerned you are about the kind of precedent that this agreement might a set. and i want to bring into this question the example. last year,

denmark had passed legislation allowing it to relocate asylum seekers to 3rd countries outside of the european union. while their cases are reviewed. do you think that we're gonna start seeing even more countries doing this now? i think this is a very wiring concern and in terms of what you're referring to, we've seen over the last few decades, many countries adopting what we would call externalization strategies and policies that sees various countries predominantly in the global north exporting their restrictive regimes to one another so we saw astray, leah model, it's off shore detention regime off the u. s. is guantanamo bay that used to house asian asylum seekers. now we have australia and then we also saw in discussions with denmark, now the u. k. so it is barry and stanny, when one country shows a complete disregard for its international legal obligation, such as australia that the u. k is then following fish, and i think there is

a real risk that as more countries take to close their borders and shut down, access to people playing wall persecution, that there is a real worry of the domino effect of others. pushing ahead to close their borders. natalie, a former colleagues of yours is the university of new south wales had given testimony to you, case parliament. when it came to their experience of their research about the australia's offshore processing a system. what were some of those messages that were conveyed to british parliamentarians and what would your message be right now to british m p. 's, who are considering this proposal? i think the research very clearly shows that offshore detention is a form of cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment. research done by my colleagues by i n g or is by un. agencies has clearly pointed to significant deficiencies

in australia system in terms of the accommodation that asylum seekers were housed in the amount of medical treatment they could access the significant delays. it took for them to have their case process and then for them to be re settled, the evidence is clearly demonstrates that if the u. k was to go down this path. not only would it be adopting and inhumane policy, but it would also be opening itself up to significant legal challenge relation to estrella. australia's policy was challenged under constitutional law. there was a class action lawsuit brought against the australian government, which was settled for $70000000.00, the largest ever human rights class action in australia. and astronomy was also referred to the international criminal court for its treatment of asylum seekers. the u. k was to go down this path, they would have to be prepared for resistance and to face and very serious court

cases about whether or not they are able to implement this policy. meyer. if this plan does go ahead and if migrate to refugees are sent through a wander for processing. do we know at this stage if those who would be deemed refugees by were wanda, would actually be allowed to travel back to britain? so it's very difficult to, to make sense exactly what this policy is gonna look like and how they're going to try to implement it. so part of the issue around all of this is that the british government is like to talk very, very tough when it comes to as i am an immigration and make their plans so of something that they can explain to the public quite easily. but then the details can be very, very difficult to make sense of. and one of the things that we know about for ins, asylums in immigration system already is that it is incredibly, incredibly complex. i've spoken to many doing my research, who have been so overwhelmed by the bureaucracy and the,

the constantly changing laws. people and greedy suffer both financially but also mentally because of the way the immigration system is constructed. and i think one of the things to say about all of this is that one of the big reasons that the government say that they're doing this is to try and reduce numbers and deter people from coming. but if we want to talk about numbers or what we know is in 2018, it was estimated, they're not going to 6 percent of the british population. why fi, g 's? a 6 percent of the world refugees elevate living and countries and, and the so called developing world. but even when we are going to get into that, i actually don't think it's that helpful to talk about numbers. because as soon as you talk about numbers, it's always too much. and so the, the real key thing here, i think to that can't really be said enough is that the reason that people have to travel through so called a regular routes is because borders make it so difficult to get here safely is the board of policies of governments like the british government that mean that people

have to take these routes that they are now saying makes them illegitimate if they're trying to claim asylum. so the logic is very contradictory and i think it's very worrying if they're able to it impact anyone at all. with this policy that is caused the serious concern. maya from your perspective, what are the chances that this plan are between britain? marijuana actually becomes law. and just how vulnerable do you think that it is to legal challenges? i mean there's going to be a lot of resistance to what the government proposing already in the past 24 hours. we have seen a large amount of opposition and criticism. and as the said at the beginning, whether this is even, is, will be lawful within and when the refugee convention and really remains to be seen what the detail is. and so i think the government, what they really want to achieve with this one of the things they really want to achieve the best, like many governments before them, if they want to talk talk and really show that their talk. that does not mean that

we cannot impact people and impact will negatively overlook the potential impacts of these policies. but the key thing here is that they all mobilizing xenophobia on racism as they have been doing it as many government will them. and that is potentially going to have a devastating impact on people's lives as it has done the decades in britain. emily human rights watch has said that we're wanda, has an appalling human rights record. just how bad are things there when it comes to human rights? yes, everyone has a well known track record of extra tissue killings, death in custody. i'm look for an arbitrary detention and just last year, despite mark johnson calling on one of the faith of countries in the world in he's been out since just last year, the u. k, the now we're one of human rights record before the us. so we know that the refugees have to be use in wonder in 201812 at least 12 refugees were shot

dead by government forces when they were protesting that conditions and a cut food russians. we also know that the government kid that rolanda and refugees outside the country and bring them back to face trial and ill treatment. and you know, in terms of how can the u. k. government be sending asylum seekers to a place when the u. k. itself grants the file to rondon who have fled the country because of that persecution and because of both human rights violations in 2021 that you take government granted for granted protection to for london. only let me also just follow up with you about something else. i mean, if this plan comes into effect of how much concern is there that this would essentially just increase the risks for refugees as they seek out other potentially more dangerous routes? thank you. yeah, the, the only way to reduce deaths, etc,

to reduce irregular dangerous crossings by boat or in the back of laurie's is for the u. k. government to provide safety rates. as my fellow panelists have already said, there is a severe lack of se fruits in the u. k. school, people to come here to seek asylum, reunify with their family. so an agreement like this, any strategy that is built on restrictive nurse on deterrence will not work because people will take these desperate journeys. so we see that the schemes that the government has set up for ukrainians for us gets there are thousands of ukrainian still waiting to reunify with their family to get here. afghans who worked with the u. k. government who were trapped still in afghanistan, their family members are trapped in at risk. and we've seen them making the dangerous crossings across the channel because there are no safe rates. a natalie, there's a lot of research out there including some of your own research that says that to australia, offshore scheme broke international law that it was in humane. as you said before,

there was hugely expensive. has that swayed public opinion and australia at all. so i think as more information has emerged about the horrors of his driest offshore detention system, we have seen public sentiment turn against this policy in 2016. the government was proposing i'm returning a number of asylum seekers. 2 of short attention who had been brought to australia from medical treatment and that resulted in a serious public outcry. they were protest outside of hospitals were assigned seats were being held. they were marches in all the capital cities of australia and churches even proposed to offer sanctuary. a to asylum state is to prevent them from being deported. these ultimately resulted in the government backing down and allowing those asylum seekers to remain in australia. sterling is currently going through a federal election campaign, and there is a very distinct shift in the rhetoric used in 2013201620192 what's

being said to day. the government is effectively silent on its border protection strategies. and what's more, it is being quietly releasing refugees who are held in detention centers to commit them to live in the community. so i think it's very clear that australia policy is not supported by the community. and i don't think the k community would support a policy of sending breath. we g of shorter a wonder either. all right, well we have run out of time. we're going to have to leave the conversation there. thank you so much. all of our guests, my a good fellow natalie hodgson, and emily had gone and thank you for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website al jazeera dot com at further discussion. go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story. you can also during the conversation on twitter or handle is at ha, inside story from him. how much i'm german, the whole team here. and uh huh. bye for now.

ah. in the run up to earth day al jazeera showcase, his life discussion programs and special documentaries, exploring the issues behind human caused climate change. climate skepticism is entirely dependent upon the promotion of doubt. whitney screens a series of inspirational films, stories told for the eyes of those at the forefront planet. s o s. visits greenland to investigate how local communities are adapting to the alarming rate of melting ice. never before in human history has the months prestige environment of the arctic. reading such peril, al jazeera well documents the devastating impacts of climate change on a lake and center goal and rivers in iraq. and the st asked how

societies can respond to global warming. the climate emergency, a season of special programming. anal josie ah, more than $900.00 bodies are found in ukraine's cave region half to russian forces withdrawal. please say many victims were executed. ah, 11 o'clock, this is our desire life and death. also coming up parts of the philippines and devastated after landslide, triggered by flooding, wipes out homes and leaves many missing the search for survivors in south africa, nearly 400 people are dead after the worst.