class. so what's next? the beijing? well china has put billions of dollars into space programs. it hopes to send humans to the moon by 2029 and build a bay. sam. thought that the now the take not trio, have wrapped up a mission and will no doubt be spending time of justin to gravity. here on our lord that manly out to sera ah, i time for a quick update of the headlines here in our da 0 and please in ukraine, say the bodies of more than 900 civilians have been found in areas surrounding the capital. keep $350.00 of them were discovered in the town of butcher alone. that's enough from charles stratford who has more from the capital. according to the ukraine authorities, strong evidence that the majority of these people may well have been shot at close range. now,

we know that the ukrainian government with their western backers are pushing for some sort of investigation into a possible war crimes committed by the russians. but we also know that there are huge challenges with such an endeavor. legal experts here say that the 1st challenge is basically the compatibility of the ukranian legal system with an institution. and it's an international institution, like the international criminal court, the i, c, c to serbia where thousands of protests as a rallied in support of russia's invasion of ukraine. they oppose the serbian governments vote to remove russia from the you and human rights council. many serbs, the skeptical of nato, and believe the west provoked moscow into attacking ukraine. well, russia has banned the u. k. prime minister bras, johnson, and several other top officials from entering the country. the criminal says it's in response to british sanctions imposed over the war and ukraine. it accused the u

. k of hostile actions and deliberately aggravating the conflict rate is fully again in parts of south africa, still cleaning up after the worst flight against 60 years rescue. as a continuing their search for survivors, often nearly 400 people were killed, leaving tens of thousands without food or shelter. and rescue teams in the philippines are searching for people missing. after tropical storm making struck the islands. at least 160 people are confirmed, killed. 100 10 am missing a ship carrying fuel from egypt to malta has sunk off the coast to nija. a 7 member crew have been rescued. the vessel was carrying 750 tons of fuel. it ended units in waters on friday because of bad weather emergency services. a working to contain an environmental disaster. alright . or upstate or headlines here. now, does it got more news coming up right off the inside story? ah,

what's behind britain's plan to send. 8 asylum seekers to wander, the government says it's needed to deter undocumented migrant, cruel and inhumane with how rights group see it. so will the agreement work? and can the rights of migrants be protected? this is inside sort. ah hello and welcome to the program. i'm how much am john being smuggled from france to britain by boat could earn you a one way ticket to were wanda. that's the british government's message to

undocumented migrants making the dangerous voyage across the english channel. an agreement between britain and rwanda means that single men will be flown to africa to have their asylum claims processed there. if they are found to be genuine refugees, there'll be no guarantee of settlement in the u. k. prime minister morse johnson says, action is needed to stop what he calls vile people smugglers turning the channel into a watery graveyard rights groups condemned. the deal is cruel, expensive, and illegal under international law at the baba report. to process just so i will wait. on the white cliffs of dover looking out across the english channel which separates britain from france. 600 people crossed this narrow stretch of water by boat on wednesday. not a huge figure in the scheme of things. but under prussia, forest johnson is determined to be seen to be doing something to stop the dangerous journey's position and it. and so more than 6000 kilometers away, kigali, his home secretary announced an ambitious deal with the rwandan government. in

theory, any one who enters the u. k by or a so called illegal root may be sent to rolanda to have their claim for asylum processed. those who are we settled will be given the support, including up to 5 days of training with the help with integration accommodation, health care, so that they can, we settle and plan the rwandan governments getting the initial payment of roughly a $156000000.00 it says it'll offer people protection and a chance to rebuild their life, even if they're asylum. claim is unsuccessful. many ones have experienced what it means to be displaced. this has shipped how we approach migration and asylum. one already provided a huge for almost 130000 if you use from multiple countries, including neighbors like the d, r a, c, and devonte israel as a forgiveness done. and my grants, if acquitted from libya, despite the words about ruined,

is often maurice johnson says the scheme should act as a deterrent to people thinking of crossing the channel. whatever the case is accepted, there will be legal challenges. in many ways, it's a clear breach of the 1951 united nations refugee convention. beyond that opposition politicians. and some conservatives from johnson's. i party have caught the whole idea, immoral, unworkable, and a huge waste of money. this government needs to create more safe routes. it needs to be looking at creating actually monetary visa system, for example, where people can claim, assign them in a country such as an embassy. and so that they don't have to put their money and their lives in the hands of people. there are many other options to this to this issue. it's far from clear how much this scheme will cost beyond practicalities. many have expressed amazement that the choice of her wonder last year, britain itself called for independent investigations into allegations of extrajudicial killings, deaths in custody, enforce disappearances and torture in the country. and rights groups have drawn

parallels with australia is experience of offshoring. asylum seekers saying, sending them to a wander will simply increase the risk to their physical and mental health. nadine barber al jazeera britain's agreement has been compared to australia's offshore processing policy between 20012008. and since 2012 people who arrived by boat austria were sent to prisons and now ru, and manners island in pop one who guinea rights group say, australia violated his obligations under the u. n. refugee convention. detainees reported torture, sexual abuse, self harm, and mental illness. in 2017, the australian government was ordered to pay $52000000.00 in compensation to nearly 2000 manis island refugees. the policy is expected to cost australian taxpayers nearly 600000000 dollars this year to keep fewer than $230.00 people in offshore jails. let's speak to call boss yahoo. so the director of survivor empowerment of

the organization. freedom from torture. he has 1st hand experience of the you case asylum process. kumasi a thanks so much for joining us today. you had a harrowing journey getting to the u. k. what was your experience like arriving in the u. k. as a refugee and then being placed in detention and thank you very much and also thank you for having me. i think my experience of reaching the u. k was traumatic was her angus and oars heroine. and i didn't know to have much over choice. but for me, the most important thing for me is to get some more, which i feel safe, and i know that i will be protected. and i know that i'm gonna start building my life. and when i go into the u. k, i was really shocked by do fog. i was after presenting myself and

saying that i'm here and i one protections. the next thing that happened to me i was put through detention in regression detention center. and i was massive, massive, sure into my system. and as a result of house trigger, you know, do trauma of the journey or sort of trauma, persecution and wool and also torture in into me. and i start displaying some st. um, off post trauma disorder and or to so i was quite shocked because i was in the process of all being returned or departed bug, which i felt that i'm going to be deported. but again, facing persecution and facing the team that i just run away. and 2 areas you know, to get as far as possible from me. call boss here. what are your thoughts when it comes to this agreement that's been announced between britain and ro, wanda,

that could see asylum seekers who arrive in the u. k. being sent to a wanda to have their asylum claim processed there. i mean, you just spoke before about the trauma that you encountered being in detention or in the u. k. could this be a much more traumatic experience if asylum seekers are deported if they're taken or if they're sent to rwanda to be processed? they're absolutely. i think that as an he mean glen by the euchre government to make a decision 1st and foremost, to win again our duty in the responsibility to refugees. and also to refer to a convention which we are seeking a to read, to which we need to upon and which the international community respecting as to uphold doug, what method are we sending to order or the other people. and secondly,

it was, it will be immersive shop to any room for use or asylum seekers to find himself after fleeing after going through the traumatic, after thinking that it is to get into a country where you think that you will be safe, we think that you'll be protected to send somewhere somewhere far away, which debt is not safe. bless in that country, we have 100-8000 over on ron ron, dan, which i in exile, which they have flee dwanda to go seek protection some more. s. so it led to say that, you know, now the ukranian fleet, ukraine coming to the u. k. the u. k. government, when i ship them to do rwanda for their refugee cases, to be processed in rwanda is absolutely unthinkable.

ah. all right, let's bring in our panel all joining us from the u. k. in london. my a good fellow on academic at the university of sheffield and author of hostile environment. how immigrants became scapegoats in nottingham, natalie hudson, assistant professor in law at the university of nottingham who has done extensive research on australia's refugee policies. and in cambridge, emily mcdonnell u. k. advocacy and communications coordinator at human rights watch a warm welcome to you all. and thanks so much for joining us today on the program. emily, let me start with you today. the british government says that this new plan complies with international legal obligations that they have. what do you say is this new plan with rwanda, legal and beyond that, would it actually deter migration by boat? the agreement to relocate asylum se? cuz arriving irregularly to rwanda is essentially the case shacking its

responsibilities under the refugee convention to paper taking a tyler. it is very likely to be unlawful and basically represents the case shifting and exporting bear responsibility on to rolanda 6000 kilometers out of sight and out of mind. and in terms of its effectiveness, we know from the australia case that it wasn't affected, it was a failed or short attention regime, which actually sold by crossings increase. when the policy was fast implemented. natalie, you heard the emily there say that essentially was a failed policy in australia. i want to ask you about this because there are a lot of people that are comparing this britain rewan to deal to the australian offshore processing system from the research that you have undertaken. did that actually work? has it worked and did the huge cause to the end justify the means? astronomy is oh, sure, detention system has been severely criticized for being cruel to being

expensive and for being ineffective at what it sought out to achieve. if we look at the conditions in offshore detention, we can say that throughout the duration of his try is policy asylum seekers experienced very high levels of mental distress are employed by the united nations refugee agency in 2016 found that 89 percent of people and malice, island, and 83 percent of people on our route were suffering from a severe mental disorder whether that was depression or anxiety or post traumatic stress disorder. now, australia policy was introduced to stop asylum seekers traveling to australia by bart. however, serious policy began in 2012 and it wasn't until 2014 that both arrivals to australia began to decrease. so that's 2 years after the policy commenced. even then there was still asylum seekers traveling to australia by boat in 2017,

201820192020. so the policy did not achieve what it sought out to do. and finally, a story. his policy was very expensive. the $3127.00 asylum se has to be housed offshore. it cost destroy and tax pay is an average of $1000000000.00 per year. and in some years, 1500000000 dollars. my how much has a anti migrant and anti refugee sent him, had grown in the okay, the last few years and why is this happening now? and yeah, i think it's really important to think about how we got here. and i think is the short term in the longer term picture. and we need to look at both of those things . so if we look at what happens is the conservatives have come into power. they really honed in on anti immigration and anti asylum sentiment. so a very good example of this is during high if the pandemic critique towel her british home secretary was essentially whipping up hysteria about people crossing

the channel. so whilst we were being told that our common humanity was all that really made in the context of a global health crisis, the government were dehumanizing and also mistreating many of these people. and i think one of the things to say about this in relation to some of the previous things that been said is that the aims are the wrong names. that one of the reasons that people are making these journeys, these very, very, very risky journeys. we will know that they are going missing their lives when they make them is that they haven't no other choice. and so is because of government board policies that people are forced to get into boats in the 1st place. but there is also in britain a longer term context, i think really matters here. so although brianna many other countries had restrictive policies prior to the 90 eighty's. my colleague, colleague, lucy maitland, has conducted work that shows that from the 1980s, specifically in laws became more restrictive around asylum. and she argues that

this is because it was people of color who were increasingly coming to you, kate claim asylum. so these were not the refugees that those so called west wanted . and so when i, when we talk about restrictive immigration systems, i think we need to sort and pick the way that these are my it in create, it's through racism. so the conservatives are able to perceive these policies and you know, this or blame lies that there with, with them for these specific policies. but there is a much longer term context is allowed these policies to even be a political possibly. and i think we have to, with that she see as well as the president, emily, you were talking before about the similarities between what happened in australia and what might happen in britain between this deal with britain and rwanda. but i want to ask you how concerned you are about the kind of precedent that this agreement might a set. and i want to bring into this question the example. last year,

denmark had passed legislation allowing it to relocate asylum seekers to 3rd countries outside of the european union. while their cases are reviewed. do you think that we're gonna start seeing even more countries doing this now? i think this is a very wiring concern and in terms of what you're referring to, we've seen over the last few decades, many countries adopting what we would call externalization strategies and policies that sees various countries predominantly in the global north exporting their restrictive regimes to one another, so we saw australia model, it's all showed attention regime of the u. s. is guantanamo bay that used to house asian asylum seekers. now we have australia and then we also saw in discussions with denmark, now the u. k. so it is barry and stanny. when one country shows a complete disregard for its international legal obligation, such as australia that the u. k is then following fish, and i think there is

a real risk that as more countries take to close their borders and shut down, access to people, flee in war persecution, that there is a real worry of the domino effect of others. pushing ahead to close their borders. natalie of former colleagues of yours is the university of new south wales had given testimony to you, case parliament. when it came to their experience of their research about the australia's offshore processing a system. what were some of those messages that were conveyed to british parliamentarians and what would your message be right now to british m p. 's, who are considering this proposal? i think the research very clearly shows that offshore detention is a form of cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment. research done by my colleagues by i n g or is by un. agencies has clearly pointed to significant deficiencies

in australia system in terms of the accommodation that asylum seekers were housed in the amount of medical treatment that they could access the significant delays. it took for them to have their case process and then for them to be re settled, the evidence is clearly demonstrates that if the u. k was to go down this path. not only would it be adopting and inhumane policy, but it would also be opening itself up to significant legal challenge relation to estrella, australia's policy was challenged under constitutional law. there was a class action lawsuit brought against the australian government, which was settled for $70000000.00, the largest ever human rights class action in australia. and astronomy was also referred to the international criminal court for its treatment of asylum seekers. the u. k was to go down this path, they would have to be prepared for resistance and to face and very serious court

cases about whether or not they are able to implement this policy. meyer. if this plan does go ahead and if migrate to refugees are sent through a wander for processing. do we know at this stage if those who would be deemed refugees by were wanda, would actually be allowed to travel back to britain? so it's very difficult to, to make sense exactly what this policy is gonna look like and how they're going to try to implement it. so part of the issue around all of this is that the british government is likes to talk very, very tough when it comes to as i am and immigration and make their plan. so something that they can explain to the public quite easily, but then the details can be very, very difficult to make sense. often one of the things that we know about britain's asylums in immigration system already is that it is incredibly, incredibly complex. i've spoken to many doing my research, who have been so overwhelmed by the bureaucracy and the,

the constantly changing laws. people and greedy suffer both financially but also mentally because of the way the immigration system is constructed. and i think one of the things to say about all of this is that one of the big reasons that the government say that doing this is to try and reduce numbers and deter people from coming. but if we want to talk about numbers or what we know is in 2018, it was estimated, they're not going to 6 percent of the british population, refugees, a 6 percent of the world, refugees elevate living in countries and, and the so called developing world. but even when we are going to get into that, i actually don't think it's that helpful to talk about numbers, because as soon as you talk about numbers, it's always too much. and so the, the real key thing here, i think to that can't really be said enough is that the reason that people have to travel through so called a regular roots is because borders make it so difficult to get here safely is the board of policies of governments like the british government that mean the people

have to take these boots, that they are now saying makes them illegitimate if they're trying to claim asylum . so the logic is very contradictory and i think it's very worrying if they're able to it impact anyone at all. with this policy, that is caused the serious concern. meyer from your perspective, what are the chances that this plan are between britain and rwanda actually becomes law and just how vulnerable do you think that it is to legal challenges? i mean, there's going to be a lot of resistance to what the government proposing already in the past 24 hours. we have seen a large amount of opposition and criticism. and as the said at the beginning, whether this is even, is, will be lawful within and when the refugee convention and really remains to be seen what the detail is. and so i think the government, what they really want to achieve with this one of the things they really want to achieve the best, like many governments before them, if they want to talk talk and really show that their talk. that does not mean that

we cannot impact people and impact will negatively overlook the potential impacts of these policies. but the key thing here is that they all mobilizing xenophobia and racism as they have been doing it as many government will them. and that is, can she going to have a devastating impact on people's lives as it has them to decades in britain, emily human rights watch has said that we're wanda, has an appalling human rights record. just how bad are things there when it comes to human rights? yes, everyone has a well known track record of extra tissue killings, death in custody. i'm look for an arbitrary detention and just last year, despite mark johnson calling on one of the faith of countries in the world in he's been out since just last year, the u. k. the now we're one of human rights record before the us. so we know that the refugees have to be use in rwanda. in 201812 at least 12 refugees were

shot dead by government forces when they were protesting that conditions and a cut food russians. we also know that the government kid that's rolanda and refugees outside the country and bring them back to face trial and ill treatment. and you know, in terms of how can the u. k. government be sending asylum seekers to a place when the u. k. itself grants the file to rondon who have fled the country because of that persecution and because of both human rights violations. in 2021. you take government granted for granted protection to for london. only let me also just follow up with you about something else. i mean, if this plan comes into effect of how much concern is there that this would essentially just increase the risks for refugees as they seek out other potentially more dangerous routes? thank you. yeah, the, the only way to reduce deaths, etc,

to reduce irregular dangerous crossings by boat or in the back of laurie's is for the u. k. government to provide safety rates. as my fellow panelists have already said, there is a severe lack of safe fruits in the u. k. school people to come here to seek asylum, reunify with their family. so an agreement like this, any strategy that is built on restrictive nurse on deterrence will not work because people will take these desperate journeys. so we see that the schemes that the government has set up for ukrainians for us gets there are thousands of ukrainian still waiting to re unify with their family to get here. afghans who worked with the u. k. government who were trapped still in afghanistan, their family members attracted at risk, and we've seen them making the dangerous crossings across the channel because there are no safe routes. and natalie, there's a lot of research out there, including some of your own research that says that to australia, offshore scheme broke international law that it was in humane. as you said before,

there was hugely expensive. has that swayed public opinion and australia at all. so i think as more information has emerged about the horrors of his driest offshore detention system, we have seen public sentiment turn against this policy in 2016. the government was proposing i'm returning a number of asylum seekers. 2 of short attention who had been brought to australia from medical treatment and that resulted in a serious public outcry. they were protest outside of hospitals were assigned seats were being held. they were marches in all the capital cities of australia and churches, even pro proposed to offer sanctuary a to asylum state is to prevent them from being deported. these ultimately resulted in the government backing down and allowing those asylum seekers to remain in australia. sterling is currently going through a federal election campaign, and there is a very distinct shift in the rhetoric used in 2013201620192 what's

being said to day. the government is effectively silent on its border protection strategies. and what's more, it is being quietly releasing refugees who are held in detention centers to commit them to live in the community. so i think it's very clear that australia policy is not supported by the community. and i don't think the k community would support a policy of sending breadth v g 's of shorter. i wonder either. all right, well we have run out of time. we're going to have to leave the conversation there. thank you so much. all of our guests, my a good fellow natalie hodgson, and emily mcdonald and thank you for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website al jazeera dot com at further discussion. go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story. you can also join the conversation on twitter. handle is at ha, inside story from him. how much i'm doing the whole team here. and uh huh. bye for

now. ah. ah. anti fascists, anti establishment and pro vanilla. despite the recent official disbanding of its militarized wing, a basque separatist movement is found alive and well on the terraces of a bill, bows stadia a place where political revolution rates share a platform in ideology with violent football, hooligan ah, read old debt on al jazeera

ah, al jazeera, when ever you ah, all news. roberson, until the top stories and odyssey are police in ukraine, say the bodies of more than $900.00 civilians have been found in area surrounding the capital. the discovery comes off to russian forces, withdrew the head of keys, regional forces has more than 350 corpses have been found in the town of boucher alone shall strap it is more from cave. according to the ukraine authorities is strong evidence that the majority of these people may well have been shot at close range. now we know.