one of these team was best known politicians will be the next president. 6 out of 10 voters of chosen nobel laureate independence leader shows a ramos horta hits from ramos horta as 2nd term, as president. he sent as the enroll not long of its independence from indonesia in 2002. this time he beat incumbent francisco boterro sh ramos horta is promising to bring stability to country that scene. years of political upheaval. ah, top stories are now to 0. the 3rd russian deadline for ukrainian soldiers to surrender in the besieged port city of mary po has passed. the last of keeps fight is a hold up inside the as of style steel plant. and they're refusing to give up their arms. a 1000 civilians are also thought to be sheltering inside. the cranium, president for ms. lewinsky says, forces defending mar, you po, need more military support in order to unblock murray full, there are 2 ways,

serious, heavy weapons that we are counting on us so far. we don't have enough of these weapons. the 2nd way is diplomatic. so far, russia does not agree to this. whatever public signals they make, that they are open that they'll make exchanges. they continue to play their own games. european council president shall, michelle says russia must be held accountable for war crimes. he's a key who has been holding talks with president zalinski. he's the latest western leader to visit ukraine, where he's toward board younger west of the capital, to see damage from russia's offensive 1st hand. in the show, solidarity described what he saw in the town as atrocities. russia says it has successfully tested a new intercontinental ballistic missile called the summit. president vladimir putin says it will provide food for thought for those who threaten moscow. so much has been under development for years. but putin ordered rushes nuclear forces to be

put on high alert. days after invading ukraine, france of 2 presidential candidates currently facing off in a high stakes debate before the final vote on sunday. president ammonia mccall is up against far right. candidate mahan, the pen in the televised contest, just as they did in the previous election in 2017 post just it'll be a tight race between the 2 officials in india's capital, new delhi of use bulldozers to raise shops, stalls, and properties. they say are illegal despite india's top court, ordering a hold to the eviction drive. the properties were destroyed in the dr. laurie neighborhood where most of the residents and was when i finally wanted confrontations in the area between largely hindu and muslim crowds during a religious procession. the stories are 0, the stream is up. next, i'll be like straight off to that with more news. thanks watching my for the me.

ah ah ah i as me okay, you're watching the stream on today's episode, ethics and asylum seekers. if you case new plan to send asylum seekers to ra winder to have the applications processed, is that ethical? is our conversation, you are part of that conversation, especially if you on youtube, your comments or questions, put them right there. and i'll wrap them into the new scheme. a has to be given a chance to watch it will come out from that. and my home countries is

part of it can be more you know, optimistic and it goes and wonder as has been found to be effective in finding a solution to every challenging issues. so let's give a chance and see what happens. there's eric's take eric, now listen, the u. k. he was granted asylum from ro one day in the 19 ninety's. that's part of the conversation. he's like, let's wait and see. what does the panel have to say about that? hello, emily moyer, i'm frank. i get to have all 3 of you here in today's show, and will you please introduce yourself to our audience around the world. thank you so much for me. it is absolutely great to be here with you. my name is dr. emily mcdonald and i am b, e k advocacy and communications coordinator at human rights watch. hello maria, please introduce yourself to our global audience. and i thank you for having me. my name is my lady mclean and i'm a journalist and contributing editor and navarro media. and get to have you frank,

on the screen today, please introduce yourself. tell everybody who you are, what you do. hello. thank you very much for this to me. i'm booked for credit loser . i'm going approved into the democratic when possible. rhonda on ocean potty. i won't say member of parliament. thank you. or i guess let's start with the u. k. home secretary, pretty patel explaining what this partnership for wanda actually means he. she is working with the united kingdom. armando will help make the immigration system 1st barrow, ensure that people are safe and enjoy new opportunities to flourish. we have agreed that people who went to the u. k. illegally will be considered for relocation to wander, to have those on systems to assign a claims, decided on those who are recess. old will be given the support, including up to 5 years of training with the help of integration accommodation,

healthcare. so that they can, we settle and drive this agreement fully complies with all international and national law. so more that is how the u. k. home secretary describes this plan. how would you describe it? well, be frank, i would say it's dereliction of responsibility. this plan, in essence, is that people who arrive via what the u. k calls illegal means which is completely inaccurate. there's no such thing as an illegal asylum seekers or so say across the english channel in small boats. people who arrive via that manner will instead of being processed and having their claims appraised. and we settled in the u. k, will be taken to a wander where their claims will be processed. if those claims are found to be it, those claims are approved. they will not be resettled in the u. k. they will be resettled in rwanda if they are not approved well,

but that hasn't really been covered jap. if they're not approved, they still get to staying lawanda, which is really bizarre. oh frank, let me show you something. the whole office put out a blog to explain what their plan was and on that plan was a graphic. so let me show you this graphic. so if they decide up this little pink blob here, if they decide that your asylum, i cannot be processed in the u. k, they decided that you shouldn't be in the u. k. they are going to remove you and then send you to a 3rd country that 3rd country is will wonder. what do you make of being part now of the you case, asylum process system. rwanda is now part of the system. well 1st of all, i'd like to say that this is the an ethical i think that

we are as a patio we will come refugees who want to come to run a day like today. if they choose to wander, to come to rhonda as dearford. this mission will come, their mind well will come to so many of them on the congo from gandhi and elsewhere . but does one ever chose to come to wander? and i've chosen to go to the u. k. it's silly, more towards sponsibility. it's your kids responsibility. they should take care of them because all of us have st. did you, incandescent receive messages? so we don't think that you see our ethical for rhonda to receive messages would not chose to come to london yet. i have this people asked that you want to come to london. did you want to come to london? they don't want to. they just forgot that you came and helped me. amber must. what does people have passed through? difficult swishes, have gone for this. i had a visit that'd help us with the material, ian. some of them have died. underwear,

most of them actually love since children we've been suffering. so after all the suffering, then you'd say to ship them i, we plotted the country rhonda, and which is smaller country and her which is also a developing country. yuki is richer, yuke is bigger. it doesn't make an assess. i will tell you when at the planning meeting a couple of years ago when they were coming out with this plan between rwanda and the u. k. m. amy, bring you in here. what is the duty of the u. k. when somebody arrives in the u. k, what is the duty if they are saying we are a cyber seekers, we are seeking asylum? what should the u. k. be doing with those people? thank you, phemie. the u. k. has an obligation to ensure access to its territory for people seeking asylum and access to an asylum procedure with due process expelling. asylum seekers who arrived by boat or by lori, irregularly,

and expelling them to rolanda is just shirking its responsibilities under the refugee convention under international law. and it really needs to be ensuring that it is opening its borders, not closing them to individuals that are seeking protection. i'm going to bring in the voice of journals enlightened mccalla wrong. she has decided that the announcement of face, new asylum seeking process in the you get how they do is connected to politic. he may not agree here, maria, but have a listen and bounce off the bat with your thoughts, his mccain. the strokes me the really cynical deal and i imagine it's been prompted by the fear that the conservatives are not going to do that well. and the may 5 elections. and so being seen to be tough on immigration is always good caught play . i'm. it's possibly not a legal agreement it's, it's certainly not

a moral one. and that's prompted for me by the awareness that we're one of those really the worst place you could choose to do. this is not just a densely populated really poor african country that has a refugee problem of its own is also a place where the government has a terrible track record on repression. in terms of the way it deals with human rights activists, journalists, and oppositional leaders, who are relentlessly attract silence and jails. this is not a good place to choose mikaela may well think that this is politically expedient. but maya, you know, that this plan has been going on for several years. it's not just been cook top right now. can you tell us more about that? yeah, of course, and i'm sure that emily can come in on this as well. so this plan to process and resettle assign him, see because away from britain has been in the work for several years. i think it's

at least 3 years that sort of discussions have been going on. specifically for a plan of this nature. pretty patel has been casting around for a country that would agree to a deal at 1st. it was said, our pena, we're going to be the country where the re settling. refugees would take place that it was gonna both flatly denied this has happened. about precipitate was so numbers that the deal with when would be blown by public reporting before it happened, that she kept referring to his country x in home of his briefings until the signatures, the dotted line had actually been scribbled. so i get why people want to say, you know, this is just a distraction. this is all, this is just to kind of beast the immigration fair in the u. k. and it's, it's not necessarily that that isn't true in some regard, but i don't think that is the priority of the conservative because the current government a pursuing a much why is

a plank of policy aimed at making what is already a hostile environment for asylum seekers? particularly into a completely impenetrable one. this policy cannot be seen as removed from pretty patel's nationality borders. bell, which again target to silence because it also cannot be seen as existing in a vacuum from the attempt to overturn the human rights act and replace it with a bill of rights. and both of these, both these pieces of lation, when you dig into them, really talk asylum seekers in particular, out of all possible migrants, there is attempts to sort of make it more difficult for say somebody who's at the risk of deportation from pleading the case that they act, they can't be separate from their family. there's a lot of since, since the windrush scandal in particular. what we've seen the comp conservative government do is rather than sort of compensate the people involved and make the asylum system more hospitable and actually great infrastructure that can support

asylum seekers. instead, they've gone the other way, which is to publicly say this can never hide again. while attempting to completely sort of remove the the issue of asylum seekers full stop by shipping them as well. i'm just gonna just into jet hair. the wind, russ scandal was when youngsters who had kind of come to the u. k. in the caribbean, when they were at the 345, they missed the message, they missed the the, the message that you need to get your paperwork. they didn't get their paperwork. and as grown adults who may be served in the british army, hope had homes and families were then sent, sent to a country and to countries that they had no knowledge of. and they lived all their life believing that they were you case citizens. so that gives you an idea of how the, the current government thinks about people who they say do not belong in the u. k. i want to push on a little bit. emily, help me out here. this is, there were went

a spokeswoman yolanda, more carlo. she's talking about the benefits of processing asylum seekers, offering them a home and opportunities in rwanda. is this genuine, let's have a listen and, and please respond of the back of her video. one is the same and welcoming country country and what it is was finding our constitution. we also have significant in luck messaging communities and the sponsorship allows us to do to do that. and yeah, watching that i think that it from what human rights watch has documented rwanda is not a safe country to send a file. and they could, to, it has a known track record of extrajudicial killings,

unlawful and arbitrary detention ill treatment and torture in official, and unofficial detention facilities. and, you know, just last year the u. k. government to now run to the polling human rights record before the united nations urging rolanda to module commonwealth values of democracy, rule of law, and respect for human rights. and just to specifically comment on the situation for refugees in rwanda, in 201812 congolese refugees was shot dead by rwandan police when they protested a cut to their food rations and their condition. and this creates a very real risk of abuse for asylum seekers that ascension expelled to or want to buy the u. k. whether they're able to speak up about their treatment or conditions . and we also know that the rwandan government kidnaps rwandan refugees who are already outside the country. as far afield is australia, canada,

and brings them back to face trial and you know, treatment. and just, just to finish on this, quite that the hypocrisy is so stop when we consider the fact that the you tie itself grants asylum, refugee status to rwandans, who have fled persecution in rwanda, whether it's journalists or because they oppose the government, including full rwandans, just last year. so how can the u. k. government be saying that we're one that is a safe country? frank, what do you feel comfortable about saying when when we're one to is criticized for not being the safe place for asylum seekers to be re settled out for about 15 regarding certain quantities of stuff. country getting softer because we do not have a vote is on the street. would've not healthcare through. so for people in short,

donors, truthful. even when i'm a super string cause i touched things with a post a the good english just we, once we're not here to her problem was refugees. will you to talk to them or they can come and work them to get paid a pay event. there are some of them work in harms or in bars and restaurants under a swear and some. busy others to live in camps, but augustine intellect was committed to fall on them. so that is according to that to doctors or care, but of course, oh oh, well shall state to help. 100 kiss in a tricia decamp were mom some my god, if you just tried it on demonstrate and and you are the 5012, was she merchant doctrine thing was shocked. i'm shocked by please not. that was

a few years ago. i am wondering because from one does perspective there's a certain amount of money that has been quoted, but there is much more money involved in this. still not just flying the asylum seekers to wanda. this is a one way flight. literally. i'm not just putting them out, not just feeding them, but the programs education program is a lot of money involved in this. can you see this as a benefit for rwanda? frank, do you see that? is this potentially something that could be quite positive regarding day money that is being given by the u. k. i don't see any value in that money because as i see the. busy term is it the does if you shouldn't have come to plunder and a 1st principle in which was to come to a lender. so i think that you should have to commit says possibly to sort of monitor thing that you're claiming, coming to, to, to pay for the housing. oh,

uncle, i mean, accommodation, oil cation o, as a facilities. i think this is just a smokescreen because this ugly missed gift for 5 years. so bonded to put an agreement with so is could migrant. that me the people coming to be settled. he actually what we saw, it didn't even mission refugees, the just mission microns. it to me that people are coming to be put here to stay here for good under giving them under government for 5 years. that's what i've seen 115 pounds for 5 years. so what happens after that? and you know, it, we have problem of unemployment or it in the rundown, most of our youth and the unemployed. most of the women i see unemployed under a booking people who want to work to wake up even when trying to find welcome to can't find it. so and these young people went to being random. what happens when at mind is not there? how would they manage hold? what would they do? i think to propose conflicts in the 30 days there will be issues. and even if you

have somebody giving them and i did read a better life than others, i, you see there's a difference here and wonder than do you okay, that we don't have this so much more jobs if you put when you can get good money. so we're all trying to survive and that the government has had a good plan. busy of getting jobs every m, but it is jobs, not yet. there is a good plan, but we are not seeing them that jobs. so we were struggling and helped me. one of the things is high cost of living in the rundown as some people compared to a to europe. yet because you find a tut health $100.00. but if you look at the bucket, you don't get a looking big l to little money compared to other countries nibbling countries. look uganda. well, but if you have under drills gonna have what you're purchasing. poa. i did also a current trick would hopefully hi places. wonderful. places i would hi, of course this has been exploited by b. could indiana lucian conflict. but i even before that to hut high political food like not officially, not as was mentioned by pretty patel or by the run,

the family of you and you were talking about this. you may absolutely i can i, i am. and if i may, can i just bring in one more example? i'm come straight back to you. this one comes from natalie because frank, thank you. you've just laid out some of the biggest challenges for, for this migration policy, if it can actually walking lawanda. so to natalie brings up another example of this idea of processing asylum seekers outside of the country where the asylum seekers are trying to get to a straight. here is one example. natalie picks out my thought from here. this is what she talks a little bit earlier. emily come off the back of natalie. here we go. it is dry is off showed attention centers asylum seekers, whereas in hopefully the accommodation and start to access basic medical care. there were long delays in asylum processing in resettlement, meaning that many were tracked offshore for years in 2016 over 80 percent of people,

and also detention was offering a serious mental illness. and 12 people have di, histories of short attention centers, ultimately as rise of showed attention amounted to cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment in violation of international law. now the u. k. of his poise to follow in his voice footsteps. but there are real concerns that the u . k is pursuing a policy that will violate rather than protect the human rights of asylum seekers. yes, so it is well documented that australians of short attention regime on a silent in poverty and the route caused immeasurable human suffering and ledge to very severe human rights abuses. human rights watch has documented widespread sexual violence against women that were detained in the centers and men, women and children experienced medical neglect abuse and there was also an epidemic

of self and a number of suicides which as nationally mentioned 13 people died since the policy was instituted in 2013, so it is incredibly alarming that the u. k. is choosing to, to follow this path and to have followed in australia, footsteps in a model that is, that has been effective in breaking the people smuggling trade to australia and at the end of the day does nothing but cause more human suffering. and just to comment on the back of what dr. franco saying, i think it's really important in this context to separate out development tied and migration control. so i think that countries like the u. k can be giving development a foreign aid and investing in a country such rwanda at this shouldn't be time for us to, you know, wash our hands of asylum seekers and incentivized countries like rwanda to take on

our style and responsibilities for us. it is simply us externalizing our style and responsibilities. and at the end of the day, regardless of the financial benefits, it is very likely to be a breach of the u. k. obligations and will cause much more home and good. so we don't know that. but on the u. k. home office below the you, k home office is saying in the next few weeks, we want to send out notice to science because you are in the u. k. in the next few months, the 1st flights will take place, going to rewind, but we do not know at this stage what legal challenges they may well be. this is u . k prime minister boys johnson explaining what the potential could be for this policy. have a nice and have a look if they, if they go that way, if they come across the channel illegally in these, in these vessels, then they risk as i've, as i've explained, ending up not in the u. k,

but in rwanda and that is something that i believe will over time prove a very considerable deterrent sir. i wonder if they are seen by u. k. prime minister boys johnson as a deterrent john feet and b spoke to us a little bit earlier. his like we shouldn't be thinking about flying asylum seekers across the world to a wonder we should be thinking of different ways to make sure they have safe passage. this is what he taught us earlier. a british red cross with stylish and saying, well, you take government to send the messiah hallway around the world. rwanda to have the right side claims process there. we don't fuse with her. and eliza risk crossing the english channel. instead, the government should be focused on creating more safe routes. refugees, to be able to reach her without hate, most dangerous journey. they should increase the number of refugees that directly was settled to you,

as well as introducing you my assign visa so that people can go to an embassy around the world and submit their exciting claim there. robin happens to be in the title ready? my, we're at right at the very end of the show, but if you could describe in one sentence the atmosphere in the u. k, where this policy is a policy that is being discussed and trying to be pushed forward. how would you describe it in a closing sentence? done, and in one sentence. but what i would say is that this is not even about whether the policies, even adaptable, is about changing public opinion in the minds of the government to make it as less tolerable. and less compassionate, full stop, they won't change the dials so that what we consider ethical is no longer what we might have once done. and they want to make it so that we don't have compassion for other human beings. and that is the real issue here, and we must resist that at any cost more. yeah, thank you frank. many. thanks, emily. thank you as your comment. sure. questions and discussion on line as well. i

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over ukraine? here is the test for president joe biden. what program is really trying to do is rewrite the security architecture in europe. if your personal united states, if you're, if you go to walking through gum at the same time, your weekly take on us politics and i think that's the bottom line. ah hello, i'm the retainer and under the top stories are now to sierra a 3rd russian deadline for ukrainian soldiers to surrender and the procedure port city of mario po has passed. the last of keeps fight is a hold up inside the style still planned and refusing to give up their arms. a 1000 civilians also to be sheltering inside ukrainian, president of ms. lewinsky says, forces defending murray, you need more military support. but my open in order to unblock mario full, there are 2 ways serious.