or him rather than votes that are just not for the alternative. after waiting 2 years and australian town has finally been able to celebrate its annual elvis presley festival with her own. mm. it is parks in new south wales, and it had to be put on hold for 2 years because of the corona virus pandemic. ah, services out there, these are the top stories, and russia says it has captured these strategic ports. it is, mary paul, president vladimir putin has ordered his forces to abandon plans to storm a steel factory there and lay a siege on it instead. it the last remaining stronghold of ukrainian resistance in the city are opposed mares as as a desperate need for a humanitarian corridor out of the as of stalls deal plan. i'm not sure i braved offenders are trying to protect our city as much as possible at the moment. but

despite all that were begging for the international community that we should be united with one goal that all the civilians who hiding in the as of style still works, get an opportunity to get out and be taken to safety. at least 24 hours. this humanitarian card, or should be established, were begging for it. our men are also ready to leave the as of style still works, but only with our weapons in the hands. but to day, we're still negotiating this year as president joe biden has announced another $800000000.00 military package for ukraine. he says, congress will need to approve more assistance. as funding for weapons is nearly exhausted. this package includes heavy artillery weapons, dozens of howitzers, and $144000.00 rounds of ammunition to go with those howitzers. it also includes more tactical drones. in the past 2 months, we move weapons and equipment to ukraine of record speed. however,

with this latest disbursement, i'm almost exhausted the drop down authority. i have the congress authorized for ukraine in a bipartisan spending bill last month in order to sustain ukraine for the duration of this fight. next week i'm going to have to be sending to congress a supplemental budget request to keep weapons and ammunition flowing without interruption. the brave grain fighters continue to deliver economic assistance to the ukrainian people. hope i'm, i hope is, my expectation is congress would move and i quickly is ready for says have 5 rubber, bullets and pepper spray in drink 21 palestinians. at the most compound tensions have been running high for almost a week at the sight, been occupied. east jerusalem. date with headlines. got more news coming up here. now. desert, right after the st. according to 2017 elections emanuel,

my call. i'm marina pan. i head to head for the french presidency, but with the far right leader le pen, having softened her image and growing discontent with micro and the cost of living crisis at play. how will france vote follow the french election? are now to 0 higher for me. okay, you're watching the stream on today's episode. ethics and asylum seekers. is the u . k. 's new plan to st. asylum seekers to are wonder to have the applications processed? is that ethical? that is our conversation. you are part of that conversation, especially if you on youtube, your comments, your questions put them right there and i'll wrap them in today shut. then you skim it has to be given a chance and see what it will come out on that. and the fact that my home country

is, is part of it. i can be more oh, you know, optimistic and it goes and wonder as has been found to be very effective in finding a solution to very challenging issues. so let's give a chance and see what happens. thus eric's take eric, now listen, the u. k. he was granted asylum from ro one day in the 1990s. that's part of the conversation. he's like, let's wait and see. what does the panel have to say about that? hello, emily moyer, i'm frank. i get to have all 3 of you here in today's show. emily, please introduce yourself to our audience around the world. thank you so much. there me, it is absolutely great to be here. with you, my name is dr. emily mcdonald and i am b, e k advocacy and communications coordinator at human rights watch. hello maria. please introduce yourself to our global audience. and i thank you for having me. i . my name is my lady mclean, and i'm a journalist and contributing editor and navarro media and get to have you frank,

on the screen today. please introduce yourself. tell everybody who you are, what you do. hello. thank you very much for me. i'm booked up for credit mover. i'm gonna go into the de couldn't what'll rumble on ocean pretty. i won't say a member of parliament factual. or i guess let's start with the u. k. home secretary, pretty per town explaining what this partnership for wanda actually means. he, she is working to go to the united kingdom on rwanda will help make the immigration system for barrow, ensure that people are safe and enjoy new opportunities to flourish. we have agreed that people who enter the u. k. illegally will be considered for relocation to wander, to have their son systems, the asylum claims decided. and those who are recess old will be given the support, including up to 5 years of training with the help of integration accommodation,

healthcare. so that they can we settle and thrive. this agreement fully complies with all international and national law. so moya, that is how the u. k. home secretary describes this plan. how would you describe it? well, to be frank, i would say it's dereliction of responsibility. this plan, in essence, is that people who arrive via what the u. k calls illegal means which is completely inaccurate. there's no such thing as an illegal route for asylum seekers. so say across the english channel in small boats, people who arrive via that manner will instead of being processed and having their claims appraised. and we settled in the u. k. will be taken to wonder where their claims will be processed. if those claims are found to be it, those claims are approved, they will not be recycled in the u. k, they will be resettled, and we wonder if they are not approved?

well, but that hasn't really been covered yet. if they're not approved, they still get to stay lawanda, which is really bizarre. oh frank, let me show you something. the whole office put out a blog to explain what their plan was and on that plan was a graphics. let me show you this graphic. so if they decided this little pink blob here, if they decide that your asylum cannot be processed in the u. k, they decided that you shouldn't be in the u. k. they are going to remove you and then send you to a 3rd country that 3rd country is will wonder. what do you make of being part now of the you case, asylum process system. rwanda is now part of the system. well, 1st of all, i'd like to say that this is the, an ethical i think that her,

oh we're as if patty would will come refugees who want to come through and a day like today. if it chose dwanda will come to rhonda as dearford. this mission will come, their mind well will come to so many of them on the congo from gandhi, and elsewhere, but dos whenever chose to come to wander. and i've chosen to go to the u. k. it's silly, more towards sponsibility. you see kids responsibility. that should take care of them because all of us have signed the you and convention to receive messages. so we don't think that you see an ethical for rhonda to receive messages who did not choose to come to london. yet i have this people asked that you want to come to rhonda that the video want to come to under. they don't want to, they just got the you can and you helped member. most of it is people have passed through difficult swishes, have gone for the santa desert, or little past with the material. again, some of them have died. wonder where most of them actually love since children

women suffering. so after all the suffering, then you'd say to ship them away, plus the country ronda, and which is small country and dirt, which is also a dork. in country yuki is a richer yoke, is bigger, it doesn't make any sense. i will tell you when at the planning meeting a couple years ago when they were coming out with this plan between rwanda and the u. k. m. amy, bring you in here. what is the duty of the u. k? when somebody arrives in the u. k. what is the duty if they are saying we are a cyber seekers? we are seeking asylum? what should the u. k. be doing with those people? thank you, phemie. the u. k. has an obligation to ensure access to its territory for people seeking asylum and access to an asylum procedure with due process expelling. asylum seekers who arrived by boat or by lori, irregularly,

and expelling them to rwanda is just shirking its responsibilities under the refugee convention under international law. and it really needs to be ensuring that it is opening its borders, not closing them to individuals that are seeking protection. i'm going to bring in the voice of journalism lights and mikaela wrong. she has decided that the announcement of this new asylum seeking process in the u. k. is connected to politics. you may not agree here, maria, but have a listen and then bounce off the back with your thoughts. his mckaden this strikes me is a really cynical deal, and i imagine has been prompted by the fear that the conservatives are not going to do that well on the may 5 elections. and so being seen to be tough on immigration is always good caught play a, it's possibly not a legal agreements and certainly not

a moral one. and that's prompted for me by the awareness that we're one of us really, the worst place you could choose to do. this is not just a densely populated really poor african country that has a refugee problem of its own. is also a place where the government has a terrible track record on repression, in terms of the way it deals with human rights activists, journalists, and oppositional leaders who are relentlessly chat, silence, and jail. this is not a good place to choose. mikaela may well think that this is politically expedient. but moya, you know, that this plan has been going on for several years. it's not just been cook top right now. can you tell us more about that? yeah, of course. and i'm sure that emily can come on this as well. so this plan to process and resettle assign them, see, because away from britain has been in the work for several years. i think it's at

least 3 years that sort of discussions have been going on. specifically, for a plan of this nature, precipitate has been casting around for a country that would agree to a deal fast. it was said to our bay. now we're going to be the country where the recycling refugees would take place. that it was gonna both flatly denied this has happened. about principal, i was so nervous that the deal with when would be blown by public reporting before it happened, that she kept referring to his country x in home of his briefings until the signatures on the dotted line has actually been scribbled. so i get what people want to say, you know, this is just a distraction. this is oh, this is just to kind of beast the immigration fair in the u. k. and it's, it's not necessarily that that isn't true in some regard, but i don't think that is the priority of the conservative because the current government a pursuing a much why is

a plank of policy aimed at making what is already a hostile environment for asylum seekers? particularly into a completely impenetrable one. this policy cannot be seen as removed from pretty patel's national board of bell, which again target to sign. and because it also cannot be seen as existing in a vacuum from the attempt to overturn the human rights act and replace it with a bill of rights. and both of these, both these pieces of lation, when you dig into them, really talk asylum seekers in particular, out of all possible migrants, there is attempts to sort of make it more difficult for say somebody who's at the risk of deportation from pleading the case that they act, they can't be separate from their family. there's a lot of since, since the windrush scandal in particular. what we've seen, the conservative government do is rather than sort of compensate the people involved and make the asylum system more hospitable and actually create

infrastructure that can support asylum seekers. instead they have gone the other way, which it's publicly say this can never hi again. while attempting to completely sort of remove the the issue of asylum seekers full stop by shipping them as well. i'm just going to just interject here the wind rush scandal was when youngsters who would kind of come to the u. k. from the caribbean, when they were at the 345, they missed the message. they missed the, the, the message that you need to get your paperwork. they didn't get their paperwork. and as grown adults who maybe it served in the british army, have had homes and families were then sent, sent to a country and to countries that they had no knowledge of. and they lived all that life believing that they were you case citizens. so that gives you an idea of how the, the current government thinks about people who they say do not belong in the u. k. i want to push on a little bit. emily, help me out here. this is the rwanda spokeswoman,

you landed more colo. she's talking about the benefits of processing asylum seekers, offering them a home and opportunities in rwanda is this genuine. let's have a listen and, and please respond of the back of her video. hello ms. and welcoming company and finding our constitution. we also have significant in welcome to this partnership and also to do to do that. and yeah, watching that i think that that from what human rights watch has documented rwanda is not a safe country to send asylum seekers to it has a known track record of extra judicial killings,

unlawful and arbitrary attention treatment and torture in official and unofficial detention facilities. and you know, just last gea, the u. k. government denounced role one does a polling human rights record before the united nations urging rolanda to module commonwealth values of democracy, rule of law and respect for human rights. and just to specifically comment on the situation for refugees in rwanda, in 201812 congolese refugees shot dead by rwandan police when they protested a cut to their food rations and their conditions. and this creates a very real risk of abuse for asylum seekers that ascension spelled to want to buy the u. k. whether they're able to speak up about their treatment or conditions. and we also know that the rwandan government rwandan refugees who are already outside the country as far afield as australia, canada,

and brings them back to face trial and ill treatment. and just, just to finish on this point, that the hypocrisy is so stop when we consider the fact that the u. k. itself grants asylum, refugee status to rwandans, who have fled persecution in rwanda, whether it's journalists or because they oppose the government, including full rwandans just last year. so how can the u. k. government be saying that we're one that is a safe country? frank, what do you feel comfortable about saying when when we're one to is criticized for not being the safe place for asylum seekers to be re settled what i would say about 50 or regarding silt. i think wanted randy the self country, the guiding safety because we are do not her avoidance on the street or

not al cases. so for people being shut down on the street. so even though we might not see people stink cars or such things or the odyssey for the past and her mom, the guardian, clifford. yes, we ones not here to help her problem was refugees, lou, to talk to them or they can come and work them to get paid a pay even. there are some of them work in harms or in the bars and restaurants under a swear and some others to live in camps. but augustine intellect was community around them. so that is. ready according to that that is okay, but of course m. oh, shall state to help. 100 kiss in the tricia decamped women some my god, if he is 2020 almost right and and you know, the 5012 was she mentioned that green thing was shocked. i'm shocked. by these not

that was a few years ago. i am wondering because from one does perspective there's a certain amount of money that has been quoted. but there is much more money involved in this. still, not just flying the asylum seekers to or one day. this is a one way flight. literally, i'm not just putting them out, not just feeding them, but the program is education program. is a lot of money involved in this. can you see this as a benefit for rwanda? frank, do you see that? is this potentially something that could be quite positive regarding dave money that is being given by the u. k. i don't see any value in that money because as i see the term is it does, it does if you should not have come to under the 1st principle in which was to come to a lender. so i think that you should have to commit says possibly to sort of monitor thing that your claim coming to to,

to pay for the housing or uncle. i mean a conditional indication or as a facilities. i think this is just a smokescreen because this ugly missed gift for 5 years. so bonded to put an agreement with so is could migrant. that me the people coming to be settled. he actually what we saw it didn't even mission lift is just mission microns. it me that people are coming to be put here to stay here for good and you're giving them under government for 5 years. that's what i've seen. 100 and treatment pounds for 5 years. so what happens after that? and you know, it, we have problem of unemployment or in the rundown, most of our youth and you're unemployed. most of the women i see unemployed, and yet, oh, blacking people went to work to wake up even when trying to find welcome to confounded. so and these young people went to being random. what happens when at mind is not there how they manage hold, what would they do? i think to propose conflicts in the society, there will be issues. and even if you have somebody giving them and i did leave

a better life than others, i, you see there's a difference here and rather than do, okay, that we don't have this so much more jobs are people doing, you can get good money. so we're all trying to survive and that the government has had a good plan. oh, getting jobs there every am. but this is jobs are not yet. there is a good plan, but we are not seeing them that jobs. so we were struggling and helped me. one of the things is high cost of living in the rundown as some people compared to go to europe yet because you find a health $100.00. but if you look at the bucket, you don't get a big girl to little money compared to other countries. neighboring countries look uganda. well, but you feel under drills gonna have what you're purchasing. poa. i didn't also currently would you have a high places, wonderful places and high? of course this has been exported global credit in the middle of a conflict. but i didn't before that to hut high political food like not officially,

not as was mentioned by pretty patel or by the run, the family of you and you were talking about this you may absolutely i can i, i am. and if i may, can i just bring in one more example? i'm come straight back to you. this one comes from natalie because frank, thank you. you've just laid out some of the biggest challenges for, for this migration policy, if it can actually walking lawanda. so to natalie brings up another example of this idea of processing asylum seekers outside of the country where the asylum seekers are trying to get to a straight. here is one example. natalie picks up my thought from here. this is what she talks a little bit earlier. emily come off the back of natalie. here we go. mr. i is off showed attention centers, asylum seekers were housed in hopefully the accommodation and started to access basic medical care through a long delays in asylum processing in resettlement. meaning that many were tracked offshore for years in 2016 over 80 percent of people in also detention was

suffering a serious mental illness. and 12 people have died. histories of short attention centers ultimately as rise off showed attention amounted to cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment in violation of international law. now u. k of his poise to follow in his various footsteps. but there are real concerns that the case pursuing a policy that will violate rather than protect the human rights of asylum seekers. yes, so it is well documented that australia's short attention regime on a silent in poverty and the route coast immeasurable human suffering and ledge to very severe human rights abuses. human rights watch has documented widespread sexual violence against women that were detained in the centers and men, women and children experienced medical neglect abuse and there was also an epidemic

of a number of suicides which as nationally mentioned, 13 people died since the policy was instituted in 2015, so it is incredibly alarming that the u. k. is choosing to, to follow this off and to have followed in australia's footsteps in a model that is, that has been effective in breaking the paper smuggling trade to australia. and at the end of the day does nothing but cause more human suffering. and just to comment on the back of what dr. franco saying, i think it's really important in this context to separate out development tied and migration control. so i think that countries like the u. k, can be giving development aid for an aide and investing in a country such as rwanda. this shouldn't be time for us to, you know, wash our hands of asylum seekers and incentivized countries like rwanda to take on

our silent responsibilities for us. it is simply us externalizing our style and responsibilities. and at the end of the day, regardless of the financial benefits, it is very likely to be a breach of the you k obligations and will cause much more good. so we don't know that. but on the you k home office blog, the u. k. home office is saying, in the next few weeks, we want to send out a notice to sign because you are coming in the u. k. in the next few months, the 1st flights will take place going to rwanda. but we do not know at this stage what legal challenges they may well be. this is u. k prime minister boys johnson explaining what the potential could be for this policy. have a list and have a look if they, if they go that way, if they come across the channel illegally in these, in these vessels, then they risk as i've, as i've explained, ending up not in the u. k,

but in rwanda and that is something that i believe will over time prove a very considerable, a deterrent sir. i wonder as well, same by u. k. prime minister price johnson as a deterrent john feet and b spoke to us a little bit earlier. his i, we shouldn't be thinking about flying asylum seekers across the well to a lender should be thinking of different ways to make sure they have safe passage. this is what he told us earlier. a british red cross with stylish and saying, well, you take government to send the messiah hallway around the world. rwanda to have the right side claims process. there. we are going through this with her people and eliza risk crossing the english channel. instead, the government should be focused on creating more safe routes. refugees, to be able to reach her out, hate, most dangerous journey. they should increase the number of refugees that directly settled to the u. k. as well as introducing humanities these, this,

the people can go to an embassy around the world and submitted an item, find their raw, happens in the tire ready? my were at right at the very end of the show. but if you could describe in one sentence the atmosphere in the u. k, where this policy is a policy that is being discussed and trying to be pushed forward. how would you describe it in a closing sentence? done and at one sentence, but what i would say is that this is not even about whether the policies even an active role is, is about changing public opinion in the aligned to the government, to make it as less tolerable and less compassionate. fo stop, they won't change the dial so that what we consider ethical is no longer what we might have once done. and they want to make it so that we don't have compassion for other human beings. and that is the real issue here. and we must resist that at any cost. maria. thank a frank many. thanks, emily. thank you. as your comment. sure. questions and discussion on line as well.

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