2nd, typically in governments have tried to avoid reaching a settlement, fearing the political consequences of any perceived secession of sovereignty. so the only way to put it into this today is via a bilateral negotiation. and the decision today actually makes it even more difficult to continue postponing that now it remains to be seen how the 2 countries sit down given existing tensions between the governments of columbia. columbia said it will not negotiate with the government that considers that dictatorship, but the court's ruling are final and legally binding, which might force them to do so potentially bringing to an end this long standing dispute. allison that i'm the, i'll just see what i again, the headlines on al jazeera is really forces them again fire rubber, bullets a palestinian detail of san last compounds and occupied east jerusalem. at least 31

people have been injured including 3 journalists, and one paramedic. stephanie decker has more from occupied east jerusalem. you have the worshippers coming here through damascus gate. unoccupied is jerusalem. large numbers here today, the police, these really police have blocked off the roads all around this area. they will so stopped the ultra orthodox jews who often use this gate to enter the old city from coming here today. all in an effort to try and calm the ground, the images you're seeing now very much business as usual. people are arriving in large numbers. and as we said, there are certain restrictions in the sense that men younger than the age of 50 cannot enter deluxe. the most compound today, only from the west bank. however, the rest, there are no restrictions. i think this is a, an attempt to try and calm the ground. russia has declared victory in the battle for the strategic ukrainian city of mar,

you pull. ukraine says its forces have lost control of the besieged for its any, but denies it has fallen. the prime minister is a britain and india have discussed the urgent need for a cease fire in ukraine, or is johnson met nor, and remote here in new delhi as part of a 2 day visit. they've also announced plans to deepen defense and trade ties near that shock to have them as a yogurt on it but a b. so we've agreed to increase our co operation in the defense sector. we welcome the u. k. support for a self reliant india in all sectors. manufacturing, technology design and development. i'm. i'm new. good in met. we emphasize the need for an immediate cease fire ukraine and the use of dialogue and diplomacy for resolving issues. guy, lo, we reiterated the importance of respect for the regional integrity and sovereignty of all nation is funky kids who are more news at the top of the hour on al jazeera, but up next, it's the stream. thanks for watching a bye for now. that side of the conflict in the ukraine. how concerned should we be

about this on to build up, we bring the stories from different ones that are rapidly changing the world. we're living because the one become roches new dollars. it becoming rushes new door, counting the coast on al jazeera i i anthony ok today on the screen we are talking about the n word nuclear. how big a role could nuclear energy play as we look for cleaner, sustainable forms of energy going forward? so we have on the ad team, a lot of experts, you know, a lot about the pros and cons of nuclear energy use them as a results. join us on youtube, your comments, your questions into the comment section. be part of today's show. let's meet our panel. we have a mare and sean and cast eager to have all 3 of you with us and may i please introduce yourself to our stream audience? hi my name is mary, are vaughn. i re report her

a box. i'm on the science desk and i focus on climate change. it to had he had, has shown. welcome to the string, please introduce yourself to our viewers. hello, i'm shawn burney. i'm a senior nicholas specialist greenpeace east asia. mostly working in japan and south korea. go to having a welcome casting with our audience. no need to know about you who you are and what you do. hi everyone. i am kirsty and i work for tara praxis i, which is a non profit organization focused on accelerating action for climate and prosperity . and really focusing on enabling really high impact, very rapid transitions for the toughest parts of our d compensation challenge. i say good to have all 3 of you with us that a mer cast issue. i am thinking that this conversation about nuclear energy. i thought we've had this before, we've talked about the pros and cons, nuclear energy, didn't we just do that in the seventy's, the eighty's and ninety's in them pocket. and now am i imagining that we're going back to that same conversation in a way that conversation has never really stopped?

it's always been a perennial sort of thing that's been on the table. you know, nuclear energy has been part of the energy mix around the world. since the 1950s, the united states, you know, has more nuclear reactors than any other country. and they provide about 20 percent of the electricity here. and there's always been a debate about just how much more we should invest, whether we should be keeping the existing reactors on line. but the contours of that debate have changed, you know, at the 70 is the concern was the oil crisis and basically about energy constraints . and now the construct conversation a shift a little bit more towards climate change. you know, how does nuclear fit into the equation when it comes to d, carbonized or power grid? and so the contours i keep changing what the debate around nuclear is still, you know, always on the product table. so when i took that with this confession, gang of the, the eighty's and ninety's it into the 2000. yeah. you know, you've, you've been any and you to as well customer show in your thoughts why we hear again or why we continuing to have the debate. yeah, i'm getting

a little bit older and little bit tired of this new cook grand hogue day. i wasn't so much, i was in short in the seventy's, but the seventy's they had exactly the same to be as, as omar to said, which was about energy security and nuclear was not able to grow substantially for most of the united states, for example, because the economics killed nuclear power. so in that sense, we are having the same debate and it's driven by an industry that is fighting for survival and has been good. it's funny you say that because actually the, the oil shock in the 19 seventy's led to france for example, and sweden successfully de carbonized completely their electricity grids, which is actually what climate success looks like, having a completely emissions green, very reliable, very low cost of electricity grid and then actually alone, you know, we're saying that it's like a groundhog day. in fact, the climate has changed very significantly. the world has changed actually, even in the last several weeks, given the sort of, you know,

energy crisis we had last summer, given the, you know, the failure yet again of cop 26. the climate conference that happens in glasgow this year to come to any meaningful decisions or conclusions about actions on climate change. compet emissions continue to rise here on. yeah. and now we have, you know, the, the terrible invasion by russia of ukraine leading to, you know, an exposure of the folly of over dependence on imported gas, which actually has been at the heart, frankly, of our so called clean energy transitions. but now it's really in light of recent events, it's no longer tenable. so i really don't think it's, it's fair to say that it's the same old debate that we've always had. in fact, people are leaders and citizens are looking again at nuclear energy in light of these emerging crises that are affecting all of us. i'll address this point that uh,

we're actually seeing a lot more urgency now. i think that that's one of the issues is that with a recent report from the intergovernmental panel on climate change, they said that if we want to meet our climate goals, you know, trying to keep warming the century to below 1.5 degrees celsius. we need to be on track to roughly cut global greenhouse gas emissions in half by 2030. but not only that emissions are rising right now. we have to peak emissions and start declining before 2025. and so there is sort of a time crunch to all this energy development as well that we really haven't had in the past. well, knowing that no one is my holly remington, a suspension cause of if i, my manager is wonderful. shown guy. yeah, i think that's absolute correct. there's no disagreement that we need to d. carb rise as fast as possible. on 20252030. i'd be interested for my, my co presenters here how many reactions are going to get built to d, carb rise in the next 5 years, 10 years, 25 years. because if you can present a credible argument that we're going to have 20 new reactors every year for the

next 30 years, or how many are you actually talking about? because that's part of the problem. the industry has promised for decades and has not delivered. we had the nuclear nissans, you may remember, remember that less than 20 years ago, the nuclear reasons was gonna deliver. there were 24 reactors put on order by u. s. utilities for were actually started construction to which in south carolina were abandoned because they were corrupt, they were billions over budget. the, the, the customers in south carolina can be painful. as reactors, even though it will never generate one kilowatt about tricity. and the 2 remaining vocal plant, georgia, again, billions over budget years buying schedule. and at the same time some of the poorest communities in the north america are going to be paying those rates. so yes, if the industry can deliver, bring on, i don't see there, there's no that's

a shoe that is like this is a. a very like big moment to have a spokesperson for green p saying that if nuclear energy can cruise that it can deliver, then bring it on. let's, let's have this done tastic movement because nuclear energy is delivering, has delivered and will continue to deliver. and actually, as we move away from traditional construction of, you know, mega projects much more towards the sort of advanced small modular reactors that are coming that are being commercialized. now, we're moving away from project based approaches too much more manufacturing based product based approaches. then we will start to see a rate of deployment. that's really significant, but you know what's really surprising. it, which is that actually nuclear energy is all is proven time and again to be the fastest way to the carbon is a grid. i fancy carbonite, it's whole alexavier if, if i made a holler change or not, it will. okay. well, you can say for

a moment because the, i guess interrupt you from a and just bring in a mammy on you chew. we have some confusion from our audience because when you say nuclear, they immediately think of certain things and, and they may not be thinking exactly what we're thinking. so just very quickly, a man, not a long, long explanation. i. so we have here are common wants to know is nuclear energy cost effective? one line answer answer from you. a man has a dentist. so, i mean, it really depends on the context of, you know, if you measured over decades, possibly. but nuclear is the one form of energy that over years has actually grown to be more expensive rather than cheaper with time. okay, and this one else from sahara here is wondering if you have a nuclear power plants tank countries then trying to build nuclear weapons from that. there is not a direct connection. is that or is that a mag quickly go at? there's always a concern about proliferation, but that's mainly on the enriching the uranium fuel side of the equation. so not

every country that has a nuclear power plant makes their own fuel. and that's why uranium enrichment is something that a lot of countries are working out very closely more so than the nuclear energy itself. all right, so let's get, let's just move on into the climate crisis. and when you click and it'll fit seem to that climate crisis, if i to, i want to bring in junk, ok here and on is a senior vice president of policy development and public affairs at the nuclear energy institute. this is what he told us area nuclear power has a really important role to play in a meeting. our climate challenges alongside growing shares of other clean resources like wind and solar, as well as things like energy storage technology. the role that nuclear can play is because it's available around the car, 247418224 months of the time. it can compensate for the fact that wind and solar are always available. as a result, you can get to

a clean energy system that's more reliable and more affordable matters at the end of the day is the current housing in a way that people can afford in nuclear is key to making that happen. so this is where i'm confused just generally confused because i am looking at going places website and i found this article here for lever look on my laptop. 6 reasons why nuclear energy is not the way to green and peaceful world. i'm just saying that can't you see then you can go look for that article and then on the ad. tyra praxis website. energy in a fe innovation for a prosperous planet, tara learn about the road of nuclear, beyond electricity for reaching that 0. can both of these be true? shown you start kirsty, you follow? i think we all agree that there is a climate emergency. when i 1st joined greenpeace, we just published the 1st book of greenpeace on the climate emergencies was back in

1089. at that time, the nuclear history was saying it has a essential role to play in removing dependence on fossil fuels. the reality is we are now 3033 years on and we're not moving fast enough. we're not going to be our targets for reducing emissions, which means we've got years to change. and there is just no way based upon any historical experience that nuclear power is gonna deliver. and i'm interested in, kirsty referring to the commercial, small, modular reactors, exist. where are they? where the licensed, where are they getting built? what's the time frame? because the departure of energy talks about 203020402050. so absolutely, the ambition to de carr blinds is everything that we are committed to doing. there's no argument here that the, the reality is we have to do it as fast as possible. if we're going to stand a chance, which means the nuclear to b is

a distraction. kasey i was under somewhat small, modular react is often shona an image here on our, on my laptop. so i would, you can see what they looked like was the concept behind them. well, essentially they're, they're smaller and easier to build. that's the key it, that's the key thing. and in addition, they have some sort of special functions, like for example, they can produce higher temperature, heat, and higher temperature heat is incredibly valuable for making hydrogen, for example. and because a nuclear plants have an incredible energy density, which means essentially that they have a tiny environmental footprint for a very large output, which is one of the, one of the reasons actually why. even though nuclear plants traditionally take much longer to build, they tend to be very large. they have, they produce a huge amount of power. and so in terms of the overall contribution towards the

carbon is ation. even though they take a bit longer, they do make a very large impact. i developed completely. so you can see just just because we're learning us as you're showing you information with us on the stream and how much his creating huge amount of power. what does that mean for consumers? if i can 1000000 times more dense than coal, let's put it that way. so, you know, if you have, you can have a, a, it's really interesting to look at a map actually and, and see that, you know, as sort of a relatively small footprint, like, you know, a couple of football fields for example, would produce the same amount of power as you know, 505-0000 square kilometers of solar by contrast. so, you know, there's, there's a, a very, very large power output with a very small environmental footprint. and i think i agree completely with what sean is saying, that we should really be focusing on the, on the,

on the end. not the means. we should be confusing means at the end. and we can learn a lot from the success in the a, you know, driving down costs and increasing rates of deployment that we've seen with wind and solar. and apply that learning to driving down costs and increasing rates of deployment for other clean energy technologies, including including nuclear energy. and that would be very complimentary to the contribution that wind and solar is making towards the carbon icing our grid. but particularly because nuclear energy can help contribute towards the carbon housing other really tough to the carbonized sectors. in particular, heavy transport shipping in aviation as well as industry. i'm just reaching out, i'm gonna make yet you come in i'm. i'm just looking and i will share this with with you and then, and then you can just bounce over the thought that you had in your mind. don't forget what you were thinking. so i'm just looking at energy dot gov to that is the u. s. energy website for the common administration, they are describing nuclear energy is clean and sustainable,

and they are very much focused on how do we have a greener, more sustainable future for the united states. so that, that idea being cleaner, sustainable. i'd love you to explore that for us to man, but go ahead what, what's on your mind? well, what i want to do is just sort of draw a distinction between existing nuclear plants and plants that are under construction. and that's kind of what sean and christy were both getting at. and so the existing plants that we have here in the united states nuclear prides about 20 percent of electricity. but it's about more than half of the clean electricity that we have there. the electricity that does not produce greenhouse gas emissions. and from a policy perspective, these are sometimes treated differently. and i think rightly so, the plans that are already built. those are costs that are already saw. we've already invested the money, the concrete and all the resources. and what we've seen is that as we've decommission nuclear power plants in the u. s, a lot of that boy has been filled in with fossil fuels. and so the biden administration, i think just this week announced a $6000000000.00 bailout package for existing nuclear power plants. basically what

they want to do is keep the plants that are already running, still running for the foreseeable future to ensure that we keep those points on the board and we don't lose any ford progress. now in terms of building new nuclear power plants, i think sean is right to point out that, you know, despite all these ambitions, we have not seen the pace or progress that the industry has promised. and a nuclear again, as i knew earlier, is one of the few energy sources who's learning curve is moving in the wrong direction. it's actually getting more expensive over time. and so there really need to, man, invest a lot more in terms of the research and development to actually get the cost to come down over time, like we've seen with wind and solar. so if i make, and i saw with one of your colleagues, reports on mrs. green pacing france, and as a nuclear reactor in france, it cassie was talking to us about the, the progressive of nuclear panic as how i in france. and because of the, a few crisis and many years ago. so this a few at this energy part is nuclear and is upon,

is costing more than 8 was believe that it would cost. and sam can i leave the reported to pick up from that point as have a nice and let's have a look. osmond i looked out the family of lamar, the reactor is proved that the myth of cheap nuclear power is not true. the flam on the reactor was supposed to cost $3000000000.00 euros, and we know that the bill to day is more than $19000000000.00 euro. so it's a cost at his increase $6.00 folk. and it's probably not over yet, because there are many uncertainties on the other hand, renewable energies continued a 4 year after year, and they are increasingly competitive. so that's, that's a challenge, isn't it? how to, how do you, how do you, how do you approach that? because one of our audience members is watching right now has shown that greenpeace is really good at pointing out what the problems are. but what are your solutions than if it's not nuclear energy? what are you suggesting?

well, for, for then to do could movement, which predates my life. they've always talked about demand site reducing energy demand. and we've not talked by efficiency and how that can contributed to d, carb raising in the amount of fossil fuels being used, but also the amount of overall energy being used for the situation in france. there in an absolute crisis at the moment about a 3rd of the reactor fleet is currently down not operating. which means that france is even more dependent upon importing, including dirty l t from germany, from coal plants which are cranked up to produce out just for france. so yeah, that the solutions are clear. there's more than enough evidence from the international energy agency from think tanks from harvard from stanford across the world that renewables can deliver. a 100 percent of our elders can be renewables. i'm from scotland. we currently have a 100 percent of rail just being generated from renewables. we're also operating to

nuclear reactors, but they'll be shut down relatively soon. so it can be done. germany is on track, maybe slower than it should have been because of the policies in the last few years . but by about 20302035, germany will be a 100 percent renewable electricity, not as well. so this germany is the energy transition has field. i lived in, worked in germany for years. i was directly involved with chancellor merkel back in 2011, committing to the phaser. yes, there are massive problems. how do you d, carbon ice, the 4th largest industrial power on planet earth. that is not easy, but i'm far more confident about germany getting its energy policies, right. as it does with industry policy, compared to the island, i haven't to live on, or even the united states that gamble to take, considering there is no modern industrialized economy. there's no modern

industrialized economy that is running entirely on renewables. i spending hundreds of billions, 500000000000 euros that germany has, has already spent on, on wind and solar. it cannot um, reduces dependence on not only dirty leg night coal, but also imported russian gas. in fact, it was being reported in the financial times today. but we cannot live without gas castillo, german, indiana, to a couple questions that are coming up on youtube. and they're curious about and elements of nuclear energy. so andrews is suggesting that nuclear energy can be part of the climate crises, solution going forward, more sustainable fuel, et cetera. but he will say, says nuclear is clean until it isn't. then what do you do with the waste kersey? what he did? yeah. so we right now the store spent fuel very well in

a very well managed, very contained way. in fact, the, the, the sort of special scientific advisory body for the european commission was asked recently to look at this very question, is nuclear energy sustainable? and with a particular focus on the question of the waste. and they found that actually nuclear energy is the greenest of our technologies, including with regards to the spent fuel because it doesn't produce any emissions. it doesn't pays any, any hazard to, to people or the environment because it's extremely well managed because we do have a permanent solution for disposing of it. unlike unfortunately, the coal pants and fossil fuels which contribute to $7000000.00 premature deaths per year. the world health organization cause cause pollution, the biggest environmental threat facing us and outs for ounce. coal ashe could

emit so much more radiation into the environment than any of the nuclear spend fuel . so we really have to sort of put these risks into context and really consider the material effects on public health and environment and then make our choices. question i've got to be because you put up the w h o u without risks and safety. i don't know if we're watching this is the international community there. certain places, certain names that we know of, that we know have had nuclear energy dissolve this. i'm going to bring in linda pants gone to here. man. haven't listened to linda and then respond from what you understand from the reporting that you've been doing over the years. he's really in the festival. you would certainly hope that the dire and long lasting health and environmental consequences of chernobyl and for cushion would have been enough to put us off nuclear power altogether. but that does not seem to have been the case yet. now we face what you rightly describe as a climate emergency. so we must turn to the energy sources that are not only safe,

but which can reduce the most carbon, the fastest, and at the least cost. and that is renewable energy combined with energy efficiency . you get more carbon reductions from new renewables than spending that same money on keeping an existing reactive running. and new reactors are still just designs on paper with many safety uncertainties and they never get here in time, or in enough quantity to do anything. a tool for the climate crisis. it may go ahead well, which is great to know that you know, there are some major disasters that have caught the public's eye. but if you adjust for the amount of energy that nuclear produces and compared to other sources of energy, remember no energy source exists in a vacuum than you know, that denominator becomes huge and that a new her ends up becoming one of the safest energy sources. there's a reason why every nuclear incident becomes national or international news. it's because they're so few and far between all leaks from coal ash,

ponds on natural gas explosions. these things happen all the time and it, it kill and injure workers and cause a lot of damage to the a local and regional environment. but with nuclear, i'm editing as christy, like a rightly noted, like a lot of that waste is, are contained. now one point i would push back on is while that waste is contained right now, most of that is done in temporary fashion. there's only one country in the world that has a permanent nuclear storage facility, and that's finland. every other country in the world is right now doing way storage on site in these temporary facilities. and so far, yes, they've been very safe. they haven't had any leaks. but again, this is a temporary solution. now, some people would argue that, you know, this is a political problem, not a technical problem, but political problems are the biggest problems that we have and without a permanent waste storage solution. you know, it's really hard to think about nuclear over the very long term. i've learned so much from you, a man showing and casting, even though we've been having this nuclear energy conversation for many, many years. the debate is not other than it's very clear,

but in mass shown kaski. thank you so much for being part of the show today. thank you for the excellent each of comments and questions. i see you next time. okay. ah nay. on al jazeera frontline reporting an in depth analysis. we bring you the latest on the ukraine mall and the unfolding humanitarian crisis. documentary that inspire whitney springs world issues into focus through compelling human stories. 61 years after fidel castro's proclamation of the communist republic of cuba, what does the future hold for the country? al jazeera investigative program fault lines were ton, with a special theories on abuse in the boy scouts of america. lebanon goes to the polls, but will political change help the country find its way out of its crippling economic crisis. may on al jazeera african stories from african

perspectives if conditions select one that is cuz your response to that one since you gave it to one, mr. stanfull, short documentaries, from african filmmakers from bertina facility and head. for me, it's really important to teach that because it comes at bill something that i can be proud of. the pain tip and g hines that africa direct on al jazeera ah, allow government al jazeera where ever, you know, radicalism is on the rice across the globe, were told it's everywhere. we're told we're supposed to be highly suspicious of everybody at every fake. but our government policies aimed at tackling

radicalization. in fact, pushing youngsters to the fringes of society may impact is. you don't, we don't have any so much have you can take before you say. okay, let's me re thinking radicalization. part of the radicalized youth series on al jazeera, i inside a ukrainian military field hospital as russia eastern campaign, extracts a heavy told. i want to know is there a life from a headquarters in delphi and then also ahead as really forces fire rubber bullets at palestinian that the occupied the compound injuring 31 people. a video of a women found change in a shed provokes outrage in china.