jessica baldwin alger, sarah london, the ukrainian nurse who lost both her legs so shared a video of her 1st dance inside a hospital ward with her husband. ready ah, where oksana valentino was walking home where victor vasa lived in the eastern, her hands greet him. when a land bind exploded, victor was not hurt and the married on monday. ah, this is al jazeera, these are our top stories. ukraine is again accusing russian forces of storming the besieged steel plant in mario pole where civilians are still trapped. russia earlier announced the cease fire at the sight and insists it's abiding by it. un has been working with both sides to safely get civilians out. authorities in the eastern city of cramer tours say 25 people have been wounded in russian shelling overnight. the city is near the frontline of fighting in donna's province.

international donors are in poland capsule, warsaw. the aim is to raise money for ukraine's humanitarian needs, which are growing more desperate by the day. once bustling towns and cities now light and ruins, pounded by months of russian bombardment. ah, the armed forces of ukraine and all of our heroic defenders, bravely and firmly defend our freedom on the battlefield. but how this brutal war will end is decided not only on the battlefield. there is also the economy and finance humanitarian support and the ability to ensure a normal life on liberated territories and rebuilding what was destroyed by the russian army. freedom must demonstrate that it protects people, provides better than tyranny. that is why this conference is so important for every one in europe. is rainy. police are fired rubber bullets that palestinian protests is unoccupied. east jerusalem police say demonstrators threw stones off to israel's government, allowed jewish visits to resume at the alex compound. following ramadan,

the u. s. says it's preparing for a world both with and without and iran nuclear deal. the state department concedes if it's is concedes it's not sure if they'll be a mutual return to compliance with the 2015 agreement between iran and world powers says the u. s. withdrew in 2018. iran has been ramping up its nuclear program. flooding in afghanistan has killed and injured dozens of people damaged homes and drowned livestock. least 18 have died off to heavy rain has 11 provinces, 100 haines unknown to have been destroyed. and for astronauts are heading home to earth after the 6th month mission to the international space station. the space ex dragon capsule is expected to splash down off the coast of florida. the 3 americans and a german carried out hundreds of research projects. those are your headlines this, our more news continues on al jazeera, of the inside story. stay with us. ah,

sweden and finland say they want to join later. but despite warnings from moscow, with washer invasion of ukraine, are those countries on the threat? and what will nato membership mean for the nordic region? this is inside story. ah. hello, welcome to the program, i'm adrian finnegan, before the russian invasion of ukraine. nato membership barely featured in political debates in finland and sweden. but moscow's actions and nuclear threats

may have gained the western military alliance to new members. the leaders of both countries have the support of germany, where they recently met chancellor all of shots to talk about security in the region. moscow's repeatedly warned of serious consequences if finland or sweden joined the alliance of the decision will be neither easy nor quick if they apply the parliaments of all 30 nato countries. b to approve new members. and that could take time as a by the lender and shy. so if these 2 countries decide that they want to join nato, they can count on our support. the members of the government made that clear here in the talks. and i think that is an important signal is in any case, both countries can always rely on germany support at a godless off nato membership. and in the period before a decision is made on such membership, thought will the leaders of finland, unsweetened, say, the decision will come down to what the respective parliaments think is in the best

security interests. as russia wrongfully play into the right to dictate the choices of others, nato's open door policy is even more important for us all to decide on whether to apply for nato membership or continue on our current path. that is the discussion we are having. now, in our national spoil parliament, whether finance decision willoughby coordinator or not, it will be based on our will to contribute to our common security. my government is right now to get it with all the political parties in the swedish parliament carrying out the supplementary security policy analysis. and this will be presented on may 13 and a miss that way. we're la. i have very goods and thorough discussions and allowed us is within this group. then alice's include in tonight, future international alert, defense partnerships for sweden and including

a discussion on nato and all auctions are on the table. now, before we get to our discussion, let's quickly remind you of what nato actually is. it stands for the north atlantic treaty organization. it's the world's biggest military alliance. it was founded in 1949, partly due to a perceived threat posed by the soviet union during the cold war. but it's not stop expanding since the fall of the block. it's grown from 17 countries in 199230 today . it pools weapons and resources from its member countries that include battleships, warplanes, missiles, and more than 3000000 personnel. if a nato members attacked the others, consider that an act of violence against them all. the. so let's bring in our guests for the day from moscow, which went by dimitri babich, a political analyst at in else me. the internet media project based in moscow from

helsinki and mcnamira is visiting research fellow at the finish institute of international affairs and from brussels. we're joined by international affairs strategist nicholas white gentlemen. welcome to inside story dmitri, let's start with you. how will russia react? if the 2 countries join nature, it's threatened to deploy nuclear weapons to the baltic border region and color in grad, should those threats be taken seriously? well, so far where you made a buyer for me to buy so i wouldn't read too much into the basements from iraq is very upset about the possible membership. we don't the nato reminder that during the cold war relations with people and they were actually good. so in fact, these membership, all being much of a team was bought. we've been to the

last year, all of them directly to brush in all of them. russia was the basically almost officially named installation there on a day to or maybe not on the basis. and they all have a chance to do with very quickly. so in fact a strategically this membership will be march. so i think most of the products from most school reacher, all of these was supposed to happen. i think when he took his decision, when you break, when do you think that's right? the president puts the taken this into account. i mean, how likely is it that sweden and finland will become they? so members, in the near future, is there any doubt that they soon will be? well, it looks more and more probable by the day. right here. now,

i agree. not surprisingly. ok with dimitry in the sense that i don't think it will, it will make a very, very big difference because finland and sweden have been very intensely, are cooperating with nato for the past decade or more. what i do crucially, i disagree with dimitry in the sense that these exercises on these drills to which they have been cooperating through. i have been directed against russia, nato, and the, the, the independent defense posture is of been on and sweden. i have been offensive and defensive up against the russia that has proven itself. i ever more evangelist. i over the past decade. i'm so that is how things have been, how things are now that boats the sense in finland and sweden is that although

strong there in the independent defense capacity is no longer ah enough of it, of an insurance policy i am considering ah, the very brutal aggression that we are seeing are from russia, ukraine at present, and they need an extra layer of deterrents. ah, and they need to be, i never again, alone and nato's. i collected the fence, offers them on that option. so it is very, very likely, ah, that both states will apply for nato membership within the next few weeks. and, ah, the ratification process is, is very likely to begin at nato's madrid summit in june. ok to make sure you're giving you a chance to come back on that and remember. but let's bring in nicholas white that in brussels. nicholas, both countries are officially non alliance, militarily. other they both as, as we've been hearing,

become nato partners taking parson exercises and exchanging intelligence of both countries now permanently abandoned. that previous stance of strict neutrality. yes . well, if you talk to finish and swedish politicians, they will, they will object that they had abandoned this some time ago. that they, they were no longer being acquisitions as they had been in the cold war. but that they were very definitely collaboration with nato, from an external perspective. and they simply won't convert this to internal to, to being part of the team rather than cheering on the sidelines. but this really goes to the harsh of the whole current conflict. and this began because the, the war began because russia was unhappy about ukraine, does things self determination and choosing its own path in terms of security in terms of external licenses. now we see the blessing that finland and sweden are drawing, is not that they should take russian concerns into account, but that they should make these decisions autonomously for themselves. and i think

it's very interesting that the, the major, an external intention of the russian war against you crane has backfired quite spectacularly. okay, dimitri and i don't one of the want to come back on on what you heard. and those 2 answers that let me put it to you that, that russia is foreign minister ministry rather the spokes person to the foreign ministry insisted that sweden and finland are being dragged into nato by the us of a well to a certain extent. but so i think this is something that russians are ready and willing to meet the euro exchange exchange of wars. they're actually no more new. ringback you know, for many decades the dream will run was to go in europe or drill peaceful compass. this europe just doesn't exist anymore. i mean switch is no longer, you know, banking,

or is it going to sanctions against sweden is obviously also been phases. surprisingly, you know, the central ation when they have a meeting so they are putting in the organization with their members. they say that when you have some meetings of natal, this is all about russian press chinese trap. so unfortunately, it is easier to find the new carpet, surprisingly in the previous need toward the waste and all the europe asked for reasons why russia basically continue the war. and you'll be frank with the team. well,

no bias would be president with the boarding countries. doors and so the police were killed. oh, of course it was not the peaceful sold in 1015 in 2000 and then keep to present to my role. but he decided to disagree with you that actually, you know, russia who depend them no, russia was quite happy with your brain become in relation until my table, who is 2004 but russia wasn't take the time to rush. you know, we are not thinking independent very good, was the same story away as a need to exercise. and been going to need in been was said that these are

the 1st of their own, their own defense. if again, who is feel and again cool is with them against these repairs. so federal is going to defend themselves against the law. always again, this is because of the region should be a regional unfortunately, made the membership, it will be a region of it will, it will be a region walk. okay. oh, and do want to come back on that particularly dimitris assertion that the war in ukraine began in 2014 with what he describes as a violent qu. we can go back longer than that and we, but we have a phrase in english once bitten, twice shy, and we can go back to the war in,

in 2008 in georgia. i'm the efforts of the obama administration after that. and we can go back into nato enlargement. in this effort to extend a liberal democratic peace and prosperity, nato did something very unorthodox in the sense that it had it put in the pledge of no troops, no new eastwards. so essentially, to reassure russia to, to show russia it timed in a way. and it didn't have very strong provisions up against russia's borders, which of course, the baltic states on the polls had been highlighting for many, many years and nato, to, to reassure russia. i stayed a persistent with this i ride up against or right up until i the illegal annexation of crimea in 2014 and even then the nato read in this action

plan our operational atlantic result. and later on the enhanced forward presence. these deployments have been very, very light and scalable. and nato has relied for it's the turns on mobilization, keeping most of its troops in the west and only saying that it will call them all call them in the region. if the security situation on deteriorates further on russia displays even more aggression. ok, so this idea that nato is, is, is, is the cause of this major build up. but russia are, is fearful of is a red herring eye that is featuring in the russian narrative as they attempt to justify their revisionism and their efforts to re consolidate and their sphere of influence,

of former glory in central eastern europe. something that finland and sweden, i do not want to be part of on this is what is on propelling on their efforts towards nato right now. ok. 2 questions for nicholas starting with what will sweden and finland bring to to the alliance? just how, how useful are they to european security o sweden, films, of course, very impressive, military built free establishments, certainly on a par with any of the decent western european countries. so from that point of view, they bring a very professionalized, well experience force of, of personnel. and of course they also close the strategic gap around the baltic sea . the geographical dimension is very, very important here that they basically turned the baltic into, into a nato lake,

which it previously was not. so it's very helpful, can they, so for to have them. and so what are the dangers then for the white baltic region for estonia, for latvia, for lithuania, ah, the baltic states south of finland, of course, which also border russia, bearing in mind that we've got the the exclaim of, collin in grad sandwiched between poland and an lithuania, all of these countries have been very concerned about the potential for aggression from russia since their independence in 19191991. and all of them, with the exception of sweden and finland, had already made the determination that the best way to preserve that independence was to join nato. as i said earlier, this conflict began because russia did not accept that ukraine was an independent state. it's absolutely clear if you look at what present patients said or of the russian politicians have said, this is about whether countries have the right to choose their own future. finland

and sweden of now decided they will choose their own future and their choosing their future within nato. and russia needs to accept that. that is how the world works. dmitri, russia needs to accept. that's how the world works. the country's deputy foreign minister said that sweeney sweden and finland joining nature would seriously worse than the military situation in the region to lead to the most undesirable consequences. what was meant by that? well, i think nicholas was quite right when he called the water and made to a lake, or whenever you are all c o, o, you know, controlled by just one needed you walk. this is all was back like woman by back. see you there 7 canadians century, the same story here are in fact, oh, the image of sweden and finland in rough is you where it was all want to be in with that. and of course there is a 0 chance or where military solution. why? wonder?

oh, would you use the game ukraine? simply because info at sweden behave march racially than the corolla and breezily nationalist, ukrainian regime that established itself by force in vogue which he so i don't expect for anything. what will happen ringer? i expect a lot seat and i would start to walk away local hours. i did remind you that every year in sweden there is a part of the way of all the so called russian sellers. so there was only one soviet summary that was once g, or in the, in this week, one of the what them, i know they were, you know, we cover. all right. so you see just one example right here. i'm just going to be a number. let me just throw that to nicholas very briefly, but you want to respond to that nicholas? to be true, you say so cold. russian submarines are for not russians. submarines for order from

as you know it was i was this was just why for person lead seen the submarine was there was no, i'm almost have to do justice. there are no races. had to run some errands and they never really saw never. ok. i don't get bogged out into into a robe about submarines, particularly owen here in her in helsinki. to what extent is this nato membership bid bid being driven unusually by finland here. that sweden is, is actually being swept along and into the alliance because of its eastern neighbors desire to join. well, i wouldn't say any one is being swept along. here are these states, nato was a democratic alliance on and on. prospective members have to apply for membership, so all states will make their own a sovereign decisions based on,

on their strategic calculations. ah, what jess ah, you're right out. been on is and the front runner, so to say are among the 2 states and things have been says make here throughout the spring. i mean, before february 24th where we're russia launched. it's large scale military assault . ah, it's a legal assault on ukraine. i'm before dot days, only, only a number of weeks before they finish prime minister, santa marine said, i'm not finished. nato membership was very unlikely to happen. i during her tenure, that is what she said. what? because all of russia's brutal aggression i that is displayed. i in ukraine, over the past. i'm number of months i the finish public. i'm has now flipped. it used to be i, you know,

in the last number of years 60 percent against i natal membership, 20 percent for the rest. don't know. now it's more than 60 percent for 20 percent against on the rest. don't know. so there's been a, a resume sounding reversal in, in favor all nato member ship. i'm driven by rushers aggression, not driven by anything else as finland and the finish public. i now believe, ah, russia is no longer taking calculated risks. it's. it's taking up major major risks as barack obama reflected on putin's actions in ukraine, who has bet the farm on this very, very aggressive. i'm unfair not needs the maximum, the parents option and the maximum i collective defense option so that it's never, you know, villain has quite an impressive right or fighting alone. but it's still that is not a desirable option and been undesired to be never again alone. and that is very

much a bottom up process that is occurring here in finance right now. and that is what is preparing. i'm the big right or finish, or nato membership forward. i'm sort of took to cut you short of time is, is against us here. a couple of more questions for, for nicholas, what changes nicholas would membership require both countries to make in terms of, of foreign and security policy? it's a good question and the answer is that by and large, these changes have already been made. it will require finland and sweden to align their military policy, their procurement policy, their general stance of engagement in the outside world with the north atlantic council with the north atlantic treaty organization. but the fact is, as you mentioned in your introduction that finland and sweden have already been largely participating in nato exercises. so to a large extent,

disintegration has already happened. what we're looking at is the formalization of a relationship, as until now has been provisional, am's, and transactional, and shifting it to towards something that is more fundamental and strategic. okay, and will nicholas both countries act in unison regarding nato membership. could you perhaps foresee a situation where, what one joins without the other and, and how long will over the ratification process take? i mean, always from ministers on recall to saying, oh it's, it's going to take a matter of weeks 2 weeks. he said that she said it's not realistic. yes. first of all, i would not like to tell any fitting that their destiny is linked to sweden. let alone vice versa. of the 2 processes will proceed independently, but in parallel, it would be the least surprising outcome if the 2 of them end up joining at the same time. but other outcomes are of course possible the ratification process. first of all, everybody really is in favor of this,

so it won't take all that long. having said that, in some countries, there are formalities that simply take a while to get through the presence of croatia. as mentioned that he wants to make the process conditional on a completely different issue. the reform of the election law in bosnia. i don't think that's just sustainable position, but we'll have to be overcome. i would have thought it's likely take less than a year. i can't really see why it would drive on from much longer than that even than the most convolution of parliamentary systems. ok, gentlemen, there we must leave it. thank you to all of you for being on the program today to me to regard which in moscow and mcmurry in helsinki and of course in brussels. nicholas white as always, thank you for watching. don't forget, you can see the program again at any time, but just by going to the website at our 0 dot com for further discussion, join us at our facebook page. you can find that at facebook dot com forward slash ha inside story. and of course you can join the conversation on twitter or handle

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i can put that, that the comment that with my cuba on al jazeera, ah, i'm carried johnston harring down the headlines for you now on al jazeera ukraine is again accusing russian forces of storming the besieged steel planted merrier poll. civilians are trapped russia area and now is to cease fire at the site and insists it is abiding by it. when the un has been working with both sides to safely get civilians out, people are in that as a stop plant with ukrainian soldiers who vowed to make a last stand since morning and has the latest ukrainian fighters have been holding out an underground bunker.