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tv   Inside Story  Al Jazeera  May 10, 2022 2:30pm-3:01pm AST

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boy, and help them like sinister business. with new pandemic variance in no end to a ukraine war. that slowed energy distribution that will likely continue to leave those drivers still. manning the wheel bracing for what comes next. john henderson, al jazeera rogers arkansas. now britain's queen elizabeth as mister state opened parliament that's for the 1st time in 59 years. the 96 year old is having mobility problems and was advised by her doctors not to travel to the ceremony in london, a son and heir prince charles is reading her traditional speech to open parliament stead. ah say this is al jazeera and these are the top stories, streets around trill anchors, capital colombo, a. com, following a night of unrest. at least 7 people were killed off to a nationwide curfew was ignored by many appear resigned after rival demonstrations
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escalated into st. battles in all fernandez as more as things intensified late into the night yesterday. the authority is decided to extend that island wide curfew into the early hours of wednesday morning. but as you can see around me, maybe over my shoulder, i mean the one thing that's as large as life is a smouldering bus. and there are many of those dotting colombo ah, basically, remnants of watch protested. had set on the buses that brought all of these my, him, the roger boxes, supporters for that meeting, that the prime minister had unofficial results from monday's presidential election in the philippines suggest to ferdinand marcus julia will win 36 years after his father was overthrown from manila letter from jamila islander. traditionally, though this usually takes a few days after which, ah, ah, the commissioner elections will before the commission elections announced,
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or who actually emerge as the next president or vice president of the philippines. but you know, if we look at the leads of our long, well markers junior, are and, and the lead is millions are with vice president. lenny roberto, the leader of the opposition trailing behind many experts believe that it's unlikely that there's going to be a big change. the mary mary paul says at least $100.00 civilian men are still trapped on a steel plant besieged by russian forces. the united nations has been coordinating evacuations. ukrainian officials said that the weekend that all women, children and the elderly, have been rescued. conservative yoon circle has been sworn in south korea. new president were leaders and former prisoners were among fellows who is attending the integration. so unit calling for the complete the nuclear zation of north korea. your state with her lines inside story coming right up soon, bye feel. ah,
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it's been the face of irish nationalism now for the 1st time. shin fain has won the largest number of seats in northern islands parliament. but what's behind this fiscal shift and what does it mean to the future of the united kingdom? this is inside story. ah hello there and welcome to the program. i'm nostalgia tay. now the political landscape in northern ireland has changed for the 1st time, shin vein, which wants to unite. all of ireland has won the most to seats in regional
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elections. that not put an end to a century of dominance by unionists which support the british crown and constitution. now both sides need to agree to form a new government. the democratic unionist party. traditionally, the party with the majority wants to fast address or to trade agreements made off to break says the d u p says the current deal technically leaves it out of the united kingdom. the u. k. as know, the not and secretary is edging a power sharing government as soon as possible and should feigns vice president says they're committed to make politics work today or sure is in a new era, which i believe presents us all with an opportunity to re imagine relationships in this society, on the basis of furnace on the basis of equality on the basis of social justice, our respective or religious, political, or social backgrounds. my commitment is to make politics work. while champagne is the only political party active and both the republic of ireland and northern
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ireland, founded back in 19 o 5, it's made up of irish republicans and democratic socialists who believe in a united ireland without british rule or influence. it was once regarded as the political wing of the provisional irish republican army or the i r a. in 1900. 19 its original members founded a legislative body known as the 1st stale and declared irish independence. the u. k . outlaw the dale. shortly after that and since the 2003 elections, champagne has been the largest nationalist party in northern ireland and has remained committed to irish reunification. ah, oh let's now bring in our guests in belfast. we have duncan. moreover, he is the professor of politics at ulster university in brussels. nicholas white and international affairs strategist and senior director in brussels for ap co. that's a public affairs and strategic consultancy. and in cambridge, graham dudgeon, a research associate at the university of cambridge, and also
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a former special advisor to fast minister david trimble and the northern ireland assembly a warm welcome to each of you. thank you so much for joining us gentlemen. now i want to start with why this is such a significant development. these are regional elections. polls like this don't necessarily always make the headlines of international news, but parties the port and northern northern island really has potentially exits that existential consequences here. so looking at the design of northern islands, very institutions, it was predicated on this idea that the outcome of this very project protracted piece process. i'm curious, duncan, do you think the good friday agreement could have predicted this? well, in some sense of the good friday agreement is not lactose is duration in which people go for like an accident and nothing can happen. another level, i think the presumption was that by this stage the border issue would be would be much quieter. and there wouldn't be the same level of tension as we've seen,
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an inflammation of that question again in the last 4 or 5 years, the bank the referendum. i think that this result is a complex one because at one level it doesn't change dental thing. they the balance the par at between the different groups. they haven't changed dramatically except that there's a much bigger group in the middle who belongs to. neither of them was there before . but what has happened is that in our situation where 2 groups have to be together in the top office, the 1st deputy 1st minister at the the nomination test swap that used to be the union. us choose to take the 1st minister post and now it's and band and wars or that is interesting at both is and the fact that should fame can at least claim here is the party which exists to get rid of northern ireland as now is the largest party in northern ireland and the unionists they find themselves as the deputy but in real terms it doesn't actually make much difference as it looks symbolically.
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and we'll get to some of the practical implications in just a minute. but nicholas, i want to ask you because there is an enormous amount of symbolism here, and the fact that the party that was once the political wing of the i r a, is now in line to actually appoint the 1st minister. the fact that the 1st minister could be a catholic, did that play a part in driving votes? oh, clearly it made a very important difference to ship things campaign. the idea that though there was a chance that by voting for champagne, you could have a 1st minister from the national side, i think was a very strongly motivation factor. and in fact, i think the d p made a mistake here because they tried to campaign against us under i think the term national focus perhaps felt more strongly about it than the do you please own target voters? because the to you please vote, went down and change things went up. but we also had to be bear in mind that there's comparative aspects here. a score 100 for years has been run by the scottish national party who's, whose job is to,
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to break up united kingdom creation independence daughter states. they still haven't succeeded in doing it for the house of season governing. so from graham, i will bring you in here because as nicholas is saluted to their vote for the d, u. p. used to be a vote to camp, keeps and fan hours of government. now we've seen this huge shift in the political landscape, a huge growth. and as we were saying earlier in the center, i see the alliance party 117 seats. so that's up from 8 in 2017 and 13.5 percent of fast preference versus a we in a sense, seeing a normalization of irish politics did to a slight extent, i think, but we shouldn't accept your agency line 30 cent. we don't know that this is really a long term trend. it aligns tend to be a part of that gets protest phones from people who are temporarily disaffected from the main parties. so it may be a physical thing, but or it may be a long, long, long term structural change or other suspect that it is, i think, are quite
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a lot of young professionals. both catholic and protestant didn't know 9 into their just gets fed up. what they say is the making parties bargaining on either about staying in the union or irish unity they took, rather if they would concentrate on more person. but your issues, actually people are young families and they're interested in education, they're interested in health and health issues. so just so i said that's happening that we shouldn't forget. no that and politics is basically a 0 sum game, not on the other stays in the united kingdom or, or joins republic of ireland. it's one of the other come to both company the. ready days and the irish republic that we can so or something about so. so the, the alliance is position. it's not really a very strong fundamental lot, but it's a 2nd factory. quite nice place phone, number line voters who don't want to see themselves is extreme. it's to,
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to be so let me throw that back to then nicholas jerry think, given the change that we're seeing in the electorate here move towards the middle is best to move away then from sectarianism. is of course the results of that is that the sectarian parties that represents unit a so nationalist than themselves become somewhat more hartline. but anecdotally, the, the growth and the center ground has been lation for a long time. many people in northern arden's are in mixed relationships, their, their spouse or their partner is from the other tradition to them. and the traditional parties don't have anything to offer families in that situation. and in particular, they don't have anything to offer the children of parents who are from different traditions. and that's been a very much a growing part of the community. it's certainly not majority, but it's a growing part. up until recently those people will probably not votes to school and now they are voting on their voting for the lines, partly to
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a much lesser extent for over centrist portions and data that i think is the situation that the framework where you started your very 1st question the status was about whether the structures of the good friday agreement or robust enough to accept this sort of this, this change a paradigm. i think that's a very good question and i don't think we have the answer. oh, duncan, you alluded there to the fact that since and, and actually, and make huge gains stay there. so the right way is any littleton game, any states, but what really led to the outcome that we're thing with that will declines. the d u p in your mind, what's actually led to that? well, i think there's a couple of things going on here. i mean, certainly my impression from about is about among under, for keith. the issue, the issues have changed when i was growing up, there was a much clearer lying between if you like and pain, who are associated with the r a,
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the constitutional parties. i think for people under 40, i've really noticed not just that they come from relationships that go across the divide. but the key issues have turned into social issues such as gay marriage, such as green shoes and so on. and, and many ways they union are within that they've had to use a special mechanism in our parliament to veto things on those kinds of issues. i think that i've been underestimated as a driver for younger voters into what might be called the alive position. and just one other thing to say there is that i think that the paypal, her voting factor. now we're actually comfortable with some of the outcomes of, of the good friday agreement. in other words, open borders in all directions. and they were really driven the real velocity and the sampras boat has happened absolutely, in my view, connected to the consequences of the choices around hard borders. and i'm very
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strong preference in that group to try and keep borders open as far as possible. well let's then talk about breakfast i see in the assembly elections and may 2060 and that was just a month before the breaks that referendum. the d p, it took 29 percent of the vote and this time it got 21 percent. and of course, when the u. k, left the e u, it took northern ireland. whether i want to take a look at the practical invitations of that now that led to the creation of the northern ireland protocol, which allows trucks to deliver goods without for to checks when they cross from northern ireland into the republic of island, which remains in the you, it was agreed that inspections would take place between northern ireland and men on britain, but could saying that effectively creates a new trade board in the iris fee. and unionist insist that undermines more than islands place within the u. k. the protocol also protects the 1998 good friday agreement, which includes the sensitive issue of removing all visible signs of a border between northern ireland and the republic of ireland. now,
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gran in your mind, how much to rex it's and the northern ireland protocol actually affect the outcome of this election? well, it has affected it saying that the protocol is an issue and it's ticket issue where they, where the unit is. parties very much opposed having an internal customs both within the united kingdom. it's hard to think of any other countries that have got an internal customs border salts. this is a very unusual position. and of course they say about a step in the direction of a united ireland. so we concern position and he's undermines the good friday agreement. contract agreement was based on the idea that both sides with double check, they can stop radical changes proposed by the other side. what happened here is the, it was coming with the protocol and driven the what david trimble calls a coach and horses to the good friday agreement by not allowing that,
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that check mechanism even pull years time. that form of check isn't that the protocol is affecting it, but it's important, i think, has duncan was suggesting it don't come are as testing of the beginning that the election results here are very much of a change in trying to become the largest part and not because it's got any extra votes, but because the pay has shed votes to an even more per union party that they chose, you know, as far as the t v, i got those folks together from backups to, to ship things from. so that's a bit of a bit of fragmentation of the votes on the, on the union side. and even that doesn't matter too much in a p r type collection that we, we have in northern ireland. so not so much has changed over excitement about this in the, in the national, international media. but i think duncan went suggestion the changes in the
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selection of, or rather marginal, still though and now looking at a potential protracted stalemate. as i understand that the northern ireland secretary is installment meeting the pass. he is and there's huge disagreement about the protocol as he members of the u. p. holding strong saying things like either the secretary of state, once an executive or a protocol, he can have both the county refusing to nominate ministers to the executive. and i see there's already been a threat from the british home secretary about trying to fix the protocol. nicholas after 6 years of trying, they haven't managed to fix the protocol. so what are the chances of actually finding something acceptable? now g thing, you know, we have 2 different fact. we have 2 different political dynamics here which are interacting very and hopefully the 1st is frankly, the need of the british government to find a reason to fight with the you. and the protocol is as far as i can tell, sitting in the, in brussels being used purely artificially for that purpose. the landing zone, diplomatically for the protocol,
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was very clear. it's been quite clearly laid out. and in discussions between both sides, 6 months ago, longer perhaps or so the fact that no agreement is yet be reached is quite simply a political choice by british diplomats british officials during the negotiations. so that's one side of it. the other side of it is the effect on north myers pose x . and here i, i really do have to disagree with with graham. i'm afraid. i think the election results of every significance. i think the fall in support for the d. u. p is precisely because they did not do a good job of politics around the protocol. they had the possibility to bring in a better agreement that which to resume negotiated. instead, they chose the torpedoes. and to trust boris johnson, who then came up with the protocol that they now say they don't like. and it's true, of course, to do the vote was which went to the, to you read more hard line to be that it's an antique protocol, wrote the t v. we're only able to that one member after lunch in the assembly
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despite guessing quite alone. quite a lot of folks. nobody likes this position. nobody is going to transfer votes towards. so i think it's, it's proved rather about loser for the g u p. it's been a series of mistakes, and this is the latest of them. and i think it's a real mistake to hold hostage the formation of the government of northern ireland over the issue of the protocol, which is an issue that the government of northern ireland actually has no formal influence over done, can now bring you any. i see you nodding, i'm curious as well. if you think this is going to potentially fairly conflict not only in northern ireland but also and between westminster in brussels. well, never really well. and i think that that conflict over the protocol has been an over breakfast, have been late since the brac rep random. the bottom line is that at united kingdom volatility but northern ireland to remain and then that growth in the sampras vote have been very much of a group of people who want to retain
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a relationship with the with the i noticed last in the paper this week at the, for the 1st time ever and 2020 or more applications for irish passports in northern and they were for british passport. i think a lot to do with retaining right social media movement within the youth. and i do think that one of the lines and politics of the mars is between the, this new group of sampras unionism around the issue of protocol i, we, how it's going to be resolved is very, very difficult. because as he said, there are 2 issues interacting here, that diplomatic level where it's negotiated, but also the way in which it suggests that there's a law, mac, and northern islands, which is now playing way out in the fact that we may not have a government for months and then grandma let you respond to both of those. thanks very much. nick, this is paul with us standard brussels position in the way and we can pick up the
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stuff why. why is making those points? but it's ridiculous to say that government is looking for a reason to oppose or upset brussels. the u. k. government would like nothing more than to have this problem of their hands. but unfortunately, i can't ignore it. because now the unionists are in the position to say, look, either you have a good friday agreement, situations, certainly not. surface situations. all you have the protocol, but you're not getting both. so the government has to do something about that. what it looks like they're choosing to do is they're already working on legislation to hand power over the protocol to u. k. ministers. so you came in. this is will then be able to override it. this will lead to around you because he was showing no flexibility. what you did here was closure the period if i may continue, you exploited
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a period of great political weakness and deficient within the u. k. to come up with a solution which was with which nationalists in the line and were completely happy . and unions were completely unhappy in the situation and you just can't get away with some sustainable. and therefore the protocol has to change whether brussels likes it or not. the judge duncan, go ahead the difficulties write the programs to national. i don't agree with them. but actually this election confirmed that the majority in northern, i don't quite, quite, substantially are in favor of retaining the protocol. and if there was a vote in the family, it will be, it would be a majority vote. i do think there is a problem, but it's not shared across the community. and what could be done there? the difficulty being that the form of practice that bars johnston at shows also had no cross community support. and the options which might have had cross committee sport were removed during the negotiations. who are kind of unraveling
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the wheel here. i suspect that the resonance invention, which causes an a thing like a trade war between europe and union or anything to disrupt the open border and the size of items that will actually cause more problems rather than last. so i'll be interested to see how it goes on, but i think to suggest that this wouldn't have wider diplomatic consequences for the u. k. with america, with europe is, would be a mistake. and i don't ask why. i think that while they say that they constantly, the government says it will bring legislation, but it doesn't actually do so well. a number of countries already come out asking for a power sharing government to be put together as soon as possible. and i want to take a bit of a step back here because we are in a stalemate. and i want to clarify something for you is that maybe a little misleading. we have this 1st minister position and a deputy 1st minister position, but they are essentially equal position. so there is no government unless the european sion fan actually agree. now that all looks fairly tenuous at the moment.
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i see they have something like 6 months to agree on something. i mean, what happens if that doesn't actually work out? nicholas of the legal position is clear that there will be another election. the political position, of course, is much less clear if it's not possible to put together a government northern ireland because one of the parties has got a completely detached reason for not wanting to go in. then that raises questions about whether the devolved institutions, the regional government structures established by the good friday agreement can be sustained. i think it's very dangerous for the d, u. p to do that from their own perspective. because the alternative to having us evolved governance is going to be continued through directly from london with strong inputs from dublin. and as is precisely the situation that was set up in 1985 under the under agreement, which the g p. formed, intolerable. now they appear to be working to bring us about again,
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it's very strange. well, there's also been plenty of talk about potential reunification. obviously santana has been very vocal on that. grant. can i ask you then how likely do you think a, a united ireland is because despise all the speculation we've had? i did get the sense that and we're quite a long way from enough support for me like that. quite right. we are an awful long way opposed to a lot, so how much support is for united? decide and all the time and i mean pulse is shown difference. it said 25 percent and 45 percent. but i think if we say probably 30 percent support where we're not far wrong. therefore, if the water board uphold the, the pro union pro you stay in the u. k. faction would win by, by market of to, to wall. and for that reason, of course, shouldn't change coal turn press for bullet. a poll immediately, but talking for talking about a bullet perhaps within about 5 years. but this is only 5 years in 5 years,
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it'll be, they'll still be calling for it within 5 years because they just can't get the majority for it. i don't want to end the discussion without asking a question, which i know some of our viewers may be wondering, given the history of island. and what's happened on the island. duncan, i have to ask, is there any kind of a risk of a return to medicine that you think part of the issue is it can never be totally ruled out and there's always, there are out on the side, i have to say one thing i would say is that there is no support for us. there is absolutely clear that none of the parties have gone down the road of suggesting that there should be any support for us or staff, you know, popular support for. but we also know as that's not always where it comes from, it sometimes comes from the develop a way to start something people respond to and then escalates up. so i would say that it's not something that i think we should overly fear. and on the other side,
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the difficulty is a simply because there are people who are always, always advocating for that kind of thing. well, we'll keep an eye on how this all plays out, especially in the next 6 months or so. in the meantime, no thanks to all of our guests. duncan, martin, nicholas white and graham garden, and thank you to for watching. remember, you can see this program again any time by visiting our website that's al jazeera dot com. and to further discussion do go to my facebook page, and that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story. and you can also join the conversation on twitter. handle is at a inside story for me and the whole team here. and uh huh. bye. ah,
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a a unique full the protest by a palestinian artist using a symbol of national identity to create postage and passport stamps. but as for some burgers, in re donnie life, claire to be of the gun flying anyway, sending a message of resistance about the arab israeli conflict on weight come to palestine, palestine sun bed, a stamp of defiance on al jazeera. the latest news as it breaks. we've ramadan, easter, i'm paul. save all happening right now. thanks. is it the city at holy sites? a set to remain high with detailed coverage this year to be
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a cultural center. it will take weeks before all this rubble is loop from around the world. a 125000000 books were sold around the world. for talking about paper books. from the al jazeera london broadcast center to people in thoughtful conversation with no host and no limitation of the artist by nature. they are person who are most part to of i way way and denise cooper. society is not interested in the individuality. the freedom, the spirit, don't the young person studio be unscripted on al jazeera. on may 15th 11, i will hold the 1st parliamentary elections since the country worth in for economic collapse in 2019 political and security. france are running high with many lebanese desperately wanting change and new leadership,
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but will their votes be enough to change the status quo? special coverage on ellsworth, either we understand the differences between the genes of cultures across the world . so no matter what, when use in current for that matter to you, ah, hello, i'm emily anglin, in now doha headquarters. these are the top stories on al jazeera, the straits around the shore. lank is capital a. com, following a night of unrest. more police have been deployed in colombo, at least 7 people were killed after a nationwide curfew was ignored by many overnight. the violence on monday prompted prime minister. my hinder roger puts to resign. banal fernandez, has more as things intensified later to the light yesterday. the authority is decided to extend that i.

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