start to pack soccer, stunned audiences around the world. he'd been dead for 16 years. killed in a drive by shooting, not your thing. then how about buddy holly killed in a plane crash at the height of his fame or deceased opera star maria callas. digital versions of the you, very much alive abba will go around the world until 2026. and who knows, it may soon be possible to down load your own hologram at home or go to a gig in the met averse, helping the music industry. there's lost millions to the pandemic, piracy and unlicensed streaming. we could big profits from live acts me back out to sierra london. ah. so this is our desert. these all the top stories and texas police have admitted they made the wrong decision by not immediately entering a classroom or a gunman had barricaded himself in. security officials have been criticized for

waiting before confronting the 18 year old killer. 19 children and 2 teachers were killed and tuesdays you for all day assault. the governor of texas grey gabbert has expressed anger of the way the police handle the shooting. he says he was misled about, there is funds. it was said initially, but a school resource officer engaged the gunman outside the building. the information that i was given turned out in part to be inaccurate. and i'm absolutely livid about that. and here is my expectation. my expectation is that the law enforcement leaders that are leading the investigations which includes the texas rangers and the epi, are they get to the bottom. america's biggest gun lobby has held a major convention, despite criticism over done violence in the us for the president. donald trump and senator ted cruz were among those speaking are you up to date with our top story?

the one news continue here at al serra right after we sized story. ah no, no, no, no no, no, no, no, no, no. this is, i don't need to be here with the mac, and i'm just gonna put them on your team. and also you can just get a message. can you open the home and ya today? and we're going to give you what we set up, what the hell didn't the pull up with me? i'm a lot of my mother just leave me when i know. i

mean, i mean i shooting a lot of data. ah is china the most serious challenge to the international order? the u. s. accuses badging of undermining global security. as the secretary of state unveiled washington strategy to compete with china. but is the criticism justified? this is inside story. ah

hello and welcome to the program. i'm how much am john china poses the most serious long term challenge to the international order. that's the assessment of the u. s. secretary of state antony blank and said that as he unveiled the biden administration strategy to compete with china's rise as a global superpower. he insisted washington doesn't want a new conflict. but he said under president, she, jim ping, the chinese communist party is becoming more repressive at home and more aggressive abroad. blake and gave examples including territorial disputes in the south china sea and accused beijing of standing with russia on its invasion of ukraine. we don't seek to block china from its role as a major power, nor to stop china or any other country for that matter. from growing their economy or advancing the interests of their people. but we will defend and straighten the

international law agreements. principles in institutions that maintain peace and security, protect the rights of individuals and sovereign nations, and make it possible for all countries, including the united states and china. to co exist in cooperate, china's the only country with both the intent to reshape the international water. and increasingly, the economic, diplomatic, military, and technological power to do it, beijing's vision would move us away from the universal values that have sustained so much of the world's progress. over the past 75 years. china's foreign ministry denounced lincoln's remarks as typical dis, information, denigrating beijing. would you either her, what you, the international order and international rules have clear definitions? china proposes that all country should uphold the un centered international system . safeguard the international order based on international law. and the basic norm

is governing international relations underpinned by the principal of the un charter . china is committed to upholding all of this was to accuse china of posing the most serious long term challenge to the international order. if that's not dis information than what is simple, sure, don't hear all that comes as china's foreign minister is on a 10 day tour of 8 pacific island nations wong. he is expected to push a region wide deal to deepen security and trade cooperation. the u. s. and regional allies like australia say that would fuel tension. president jo biden's, recent comments on taiwan have also angered beijing on tuesday. he said the us would respond militarily. if the island was attacked. the white house later walked back his comments and china's human rights record is undermining relations with western countries. they've repeatedly criticized beijing's crackdown on descent and hong kong and alleged abuses in san j. ah.

all right, let's go ahead and bring in our guests from only in maryland, michael d. swain, director of the east asia program at the quincy institute for responsible statecraft . for london, martin jack, author of the book when china rules the world and from beijing, henry, we are one founder of the center for china and globalization. think tank a warm welcome to you all, and thanks so much for joining us today on inside story. henry, let me start with you today in this address, secretary of said blink and said, put simply, united states and china have to deal with each other for the foreseeable future. that's why this is one of the most complex and consequential relationships of any that we have in the world today. first of all, how does china feel about the relationship with the u. s. and secondly, was china expecting this speech from secretary of se blanket? yes, thank you. i think that the actually suckers with last night was was kind of expected but. busy also quite, oh,

still be surprised. wow. because we were thinking after a minor ministration, you know, a year and a half get he's on the station. we should make some progress on this most a lot of relations in the war, but abundance still, you know what we expect that these are. busy who can actually made in china and the number one, no arms, no major, right? for holy you as and also post china as a threat to the go go system, which i think it's not really correct because china is really a charms rise. really good for the global economy and also go on the system just being country over one 3rd of going to be gross china gum law street news was $1.00 to $30.00 countries. and john is actually live with all the property. it's a lot of these channels. success is really a great relationship,

but also i think, you know, you as the child should be on the as a cooperation. but of course we have the competition now really making it as a rat. make it as a alley and make it as a button 2nd to break and put it, you know, sort of our lives and then compete, and they invest in kind of college to compete. and that is not so what we expect, i think. but of course, emotional bother, you know, climate change and, and that many other areas john and us do kind of, i mean, i think we should go more than not just, you know, on, on the, on the, on are you looks rivalry of each other, michael. so, so as we heard from the secretary of tape lincoln, as he was unveiling washington strategy to compete with china, he was also accusing beijing of undermining global security. from your perspective, is that criticism justified?

well, i think that criticism like, with many criticisms that are leveled by both china and the united states of each other. there's an element of truth ahead, but it is inflated and distorted and exaggerated in ways that i think are not healthy. and that really just reinforced the kind of 0, so i'm thinking that both sides increasingly have towards the other. china is a concern to the united states and to other countries in certain ways. but their biggest concern, as i often tell people, is not of specifically china's threat to the west or other countries. it's the threat posed by the kind of interactive worst case in 0, some dynamic that is increasingly coming to the 4 in interactions in relation between china and the united states and some countries of west. it's that dynamic, it's driven by these kinds of grows large,

simplistic narratives that don't account for the different complex and cross cutting interest of the countries face. it's that kind of narrative, that's really a threat to the goal or martin in this speech that was delivered by secretary of state blank. and he outlined washington the grievances with bay jane. he said that china has become more repressive at home and more aggressive abroad under president . she's in ping. why deliver this speech now? how significant is it and what does it do to this relationship between the u. s. and china? that is already really yet at a record low point. i think this is a speech we've been expecting for some time if it's a bit belated, actually, which is the barden administration setting out its position on china and her. so i think that in that sense we, we could, we could see coming. and so what, what, what does it suggest?

i think it suggest that or that. now the key question for the u. s. government is the relationship with china, which it sees us arrival. and i think that the problem is the subtext of this speech is how it is america. hold on to its numero uno position in the world. can't sustain that position. and it, the whole a burden of the argument is, are in various fields. how does america do this? i'm at the tone of it in places is actually i think quite welcome, particularly in the back end of the speech where he is a being can suggest areas where they can cooperate. but really the st. the heart of it is about ah, china's challenge to the position of the united states. i just like to endorse one

point henry made, which is that, you know, this is a, this is a caricature, actually, of china's relationship with the international system. because everything ever since done shopping, china has, are absolutely committed itself to the international system seeking in the 1st in the doing it. and when it is joined, it has been a very strong proponent of it and has always changed in a, in a, in a very reasonable way that it's been ok, great, great beneficiary of it. so this is really not an accurate presentation of the situation. what i would add to that though, the, of course, let's be realistic about this, that when you get the rise of a country, the size of china and the speed with that transmission transformation has taken place. it is bound to change the world in profound ways. and no one can do anything about that. that's not. that is a reality. that's a historic,

the great historic trend of our time and it will continue into the future. henry, one of the ways in which this of speech is being interpreted is that the u. s. is essentially saying that while we want china to, to rise, we also want to make sure that china is doing so within the parameters that the u. s. has, has said. and if we could extrapolate that a little bit more than one example would be, you know, china has invested heavily in the asia pacific region. whereas western nations haven't been investing as heavily. does china see it as arrogant that other countries are saying they don't want china encroaching on those territories or the or that other countries are saying? we want to see china do well, but only if it conforms to our standards of what they should be doing. well, i think he only reflect that that's, that's correct. i'm the one that actually liar, you rely she actually real situation on it. all those on the members of

a framework that you're just re quoted, that most of them are, you know, labors of china. and most of them imagine the matter. a lot of china channel is their longest dream monitors. so how can you ever come out of a brew? i mean, other words to really say, hey guys, let's get together and then not allow the biggest or, you know, kind of in the region. be part of it. just like it was, you know, you as you so you know how barnes didn't design fee where it also had that similar function but then challenge them. that's what it was. it left john, it that's worked together and the us back off of that. so these are, you know, how long i you can go, i don't know what i'm saying is that if that has been a warden build of all those the security military allies and drive on every congress, really budget level nato expansion. we haven't finalized ramos,

south korea and trying to, john, they don't work. we have all kinds of folks on the top marie, we have a form. so, so we're trying, i think it's great, you know, we should pursue this economic organization or bout on row. you know, and the r c p, the largest recruitment, c b, the part you know, high, you know, good china, you're getting the mess with judy and john, african corporations don't let more economical. ringback you know, corporation if you are still not willing to, but not really trying to build up with circles and then, you know, preventing of blocking certain countries like china, which is already in the largest in the region, handles the rising copy and taking over you to your side, michael, we know that the us has not been happy with china's stance when it comes to

russia's invasion of ukraine. how much does china's reaction to that invasion, and how much does china's close relationship to russia play into all of this? well, i think that the ukraine war and russia's attack on crane has reinforced the notion that the framing of the global order today should be democracy versus authoritarianism. because here we haven't examples of an aggressive authoritarian state threatening a democratic or quiz or democratic stage. and that this is just harming are things to com. and so people then look at china and say, well china is an authoritarian state to and i wanted marcy and trying to has designs on taiwan. so trying to attack taiwan, just like russia, ukraine. so you get this deeper the sense of this of alarming threat

on posed by these types of states. when in fact the calculations the, the stakes involved, the interests involved in these 2 cases are quite different. and it is a gross simplification and a distortion of the reality to simply apply what's going on in ukraine to what the chinese can do today to taiwan. now, it has, of course, in some ways, reinforced the image of china and russia being aligned with each other, which they are in certain respects. china has not come out and full throated, we endorsed the western nato position about the nature of the war. even though china, very much opposes invasions of sovereign countries by other countries. and china, however, does not want to openly reject russia. but it does not also want to

come out and fully endorse what russia has done, support russia, and try to prevent the west from pressure, russia. henry michael, they're brought up a taiwan. of course, this is playing a role right now when it comes to the u. s is relationship with china, you had president biden in his recent comments on taiwan. those comments angered beijing on tuesday. you said that the u. s. would respond militarily, if the island was attacked, the white house later walked back those comments. but how much has that upset paging? well, i mean, well, you know, to shoot rosen by talking on home quite a few times. and every time or, you know, we, we respect john with all the 6 judge diagnostic allies against china. we were really, we were a big by one china policy, but every time that's why he's on to other people. he sounds different. so,

so that's really, you know, made china kind of difficult to understand. but also i think that you, great thing is really sort of minor to the people of all the, the nato, us rashi, which i know because you see why one sovereignty and told her infirmities why. that's really the cause of international condemnation and criticism. i mean, highways recognized by 16070 countries of china. that's the conditional is done. the diplomatic ties with john is paulo, john. so john, national sovereignty and territories that we should use that same as you claim. so i think china, you know, a hold of principal us to, to hold on please. we're not against you. praying for those. this is really why that i was the tracy respect was already and i was are in jeopardy of china, which i think, you know, yours is not really doing well. not really cause a lot of that and also could use it on the international phone as well. martin,

i know that you touched on this a little bit in your previous answer, but is what we're hearing currently from the, by the ministration. whether it's this address from secretary of state blinkin or whether it's present a biden's remarks with regards to taiwan. does that signal a new policy toward china or where are things really more or less the same? i mean, is the stance that the by the ministration is taking toward china right now close to the stance that the trumpet ministration was taking toward china? yes, i think this, the simple answer is yes. ah, it, of course there are certain differences of emphasis and under tone. but basically what's been striking about the burden administration is the extent to which it's more or less inherited. the trump position on china. it's less bombastic, it doesn't exaggerate in quite the same way the trump did. but basically,

i think we were seeing a consent show shift in american politics towards a new, ah, a new antagonism towards china. i don't think we're in a new cold warrior, but it certainly go aspects of that. and as michael said earlier on, you know, the danger of this kind of situation is that the, the, the, the more extreme a different situation subject can suggest more extreme views, extreme conflicts and you get this slippage. and i think we witnessed this in a number of ways, so far slippage towards a greater antagonism between the 2 countries. i mean, i think we set, you know, up, i'm afraid to say this, but i think this is going to go on for a long time. and, and in fact, in some ways, one of the interesting things about the state, of course, is not new. but one of the interesting statement is the america is,

is sort of preparing itself for the long hold in relationship to this appendix. for example, the emphasis on the importance of improving american competitors, american economic capacities, in lots of different areas. the truth is that america, you know, savagely neglected these kinds of questions for a long time. and so any long term strategy the america has, i think this has to be at the heart of the matter because basically, you know, china has been taking the rest of the cleaners when it comes to this kind of thing . over the last 20 years, michael, i saw you nodding along to quite a bit of what martin was saying. it looked like you want to jump in, so please go ahead and make a point good for the trump administration. i think from ministrations policy towards china was chaotic. i'm, you have different messages being said by different people at different times. and then of course, president trump just riffs as he wishes on the policy was really not very clear in

many ways, except i did have a heavy, illogical tinge to it and had a very heavy hire trade balance tinge to it was based on very simplistic understanding of global trade, but it also wasn't very strategic and i think we're the, we're, the administration has, all of that approach is they've become more organized. i wouldn't say fully strategic, but they become more organized in that they are looking for coalitions and groups of other countries to strengthen their relations with other countries, allies and others in order to develop a broader kind of strategy for connor in china, of a problem with that is it underneath all this as others have eluted is the assumption and you've seen it in blink and speech that there really isn't much point in engaging the child. we know what the chinese are and that's defined in

very start terms as a threat, almost an existential threat in almost every area. yes, we can cooperate with them on areas where there's a strong common interest, like climate change. when, if you're, if you're really a 0, some relationship with the chinese of intense confrontational competition, it can but influence greatly areas where you need to cooperate plus plus what this statement, what this outlook suggests is that because you can't talk to the chinese because it doesn't serve any purpose because the chinese won't really respond in good faith. you therefore you can't really engage directly with the chinese truly device editions. you just sort of discount that as a basis for conversation with the chinese and work on trying to shape covered contain the chinese. that's the problem with the by strategy. henry and michael just touched on something that you mentioned in a, in a previous answer. and then that's the fact that secretary of state blinking did

say in his remarks that there are areas where the 2 countries should work together, including climate crisis, including combating coping 19 from your perspective, where are there some other areas that the 2 countries feel they can actually work together constructively right now. yes, i think that i agree with the one just my gosh, that the, the post, the narrative is going on on trees. really are damaging this relation and also happened to confidence to court or the future. but i think there's a tremendous over so much to collaborate. i mean, addition to what microsoft on climate change and others, i think on the infrastructure, for example, you know, china is the leading country in the last 4 decades. john, as you know, transform the whole country channel now as 2 thirds of the go, both the railway turn largest continue to report a pulse. now some of the money china and 10 out of 56000045. just those across the country. and one being smart from users, so that infrastructure not become a consensus with the data, you know,

a person by the proposed one phone to true infrastructure plan. and you has announced the global gateway 300000000000 euros to put into that. so why not? you know, we want to get to like what i talked to laura summers, you know, less than the one of the bags replenished. we're back, let's get a i, b, r in action. let's get a d, h d in time out. and the mom back, let's go to the bank. we're share the same language to want together to tackle good with georgia magnet will be conscious included into mom conscious. oh so absolutely . yeah. no, no, we're going to have to post. i'm, you can post, you create a new lawsuit planned on the instructor to help on that. so let's find something similar to work together to so that we can really not obsessed with all differences and exactly, and then really, you know, brought out all the proposing and that we don't really have to fight yet. so that's where, thank you. all right,

well we have run out of time. we're going to have to leave our conversation there today. thank you so much. all of our guests, michael swain, martin, jock and henry. we are one and thank you for watching. you can see the program again. any time by visiting our website, algeria dot com, and for further discussion, go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story. you can also, during the conversation on twitter handle is at 8 inside story. mean, how much room in the whole team here, bye for now? ah how and why did it become so obsessed?

with this law, we were giving them a tool to hold the corrupt individuals and human rights abusers accountable. they're going to rip this deal apart if they take the white house of 2025. what is the world hearing what we're talking about vi american today, your weekly take on us politics and society. that's the bottom line. the latest news, as it breaks sharon's grave has now been sealed, but even after her death she continued to tell policy and story with detailed coverage. a newly released report says that gun related death in the united states reach an all time high during the pandemic from around the world. the heavy pushback has long been a whole lot of the outgoing administration. rodrigo detect date had little tolerance with descent short films of hope and inspiration, a series of short personal stories that highlight the human triumph against the odds

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