about and that means that the i, c, c, prosecutor can issue a warrant for the rest of perpetrators. and then that has severe consequences for the individual perpetrator. whether that inside israel or not, ah, al jazeera is preparing its own dossier which it will submit to the i c. c, as well as sharina killing. it includes these radio, striking garza that destroyed the offices of al jazeera and the associated price a year ago. on thursday, the palestinian authority says its own investigation had established that his ready forces deliberately shot sharina outlet hitting her in the head while she was trying to escape. ah, these ready medias reported that the military has no plans to launch a criminal investigation. as he barber al jazeera london, ah,

this is out there are these, your top stories and israeli writes group is demonstrating against the construction of a settlement outpost in the occupied westbank. the please try to dispatch protested and confiscated, to bulldoze is brought to demolish the building. russian forces, se, then advanced in their post to fully control the dumbass region of eastern ukraine . defense ministry in moscow says, as force is now control leman cranes, as fighting is ongoing, near the city police in texas say they made the wrong decision in not immediately entering a classroom to stop a mass shooting. 19 children and 2 teachers were killed on tuesday. officers waited for more than an hour before confronting the killer iran says it sees to greek oil tank as for what it called violations. athens accuses terran of piracy and happened after greek officials help the u. s. fees a vessel carrying a ring in oil in the mediterranean. well that iranian oil was then confiscated by

the u. s. a wrong says it won't sit back. get those your headlines inside story coming up next. ah no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, this is i don't need to be here with me. when you look at me, when you get to me, i can also you can just leave you a message. you open at the home and ya today, and we're going to give you will be set up for me. i'm a lot of them at the book. if you're the one i know, i mean,

i mean i shooting off the edge of the to ah is china the most serious challenge to the international order? the u. s. accuses beijing of undermining global security. as the secretary of state unveiled washington strategy to compete with china, but is the criticism justified? this is inside sort ah

hello and welcome to the program. i'm how much am june china poses the most serious long term challenge to the international order? that's the assessment of the u. s. secretary of state antony blank and said that as he unveiled the biden administration strategy to compete with china's rise as a global superpower, he insisted washington doesn't want a new conflict. but he said under president, she, jim ping, the chinese communist party is becoming more repressive at home and more aggressive abroad. blake, and gave examples including territorial disputes in the south china sea and accused beijing of standing with russia on its invasion of ukraine. we don't seek to block china from its role as a major power, nor to stop china or any other country for that matter, from growing their economy or advancing the interests of their people. but we will

defend and strengthen the international law agreements, principles and institutions that maintain peace and security, protect the rights of individuals and sovereign nations, and make it possible for all countries, including the united states and china, to coexist and cooperate. china is the only country with both the intent to reshape the international water. and increasingly, the economic, diplomatic, military, and technological power to do it. beijing's vision would move us away from the universal values that have sustained so much of the world's progress over the past 75 years. china's foreign ministry denounced lincoln's remarks as typical dis, information, denigrating beijing. would you either her, what you, the international order and international rules have clear definitions? china proposes that all country should uphold the un centered international system . safeguard the international order based on international law. and the basic norm

is governing international relations underpinned by the principal of the un charter . the china is committed to upholding all of this was to accuse china of posing the most serious long term challenge to the international order. if that's not dis information than what is simple, sure, don't hear all that comes as china's foreign minister is on a 10 day tour of 8 pacific island nations wong. he is expected to push a region wide deal to deepen security and trade cooperation. the u. s. and regional allies like australia say that would fuel tension. president jo biden's, recent comments on taiwan have also angered beijing on tuesday. he said the us would respond militarily. if the island was attacked. the white house later walked back his comments and china's human rights record is undermining relations with western countries. they've repeatedly criticized beijing's cracked down on descent and hong kong and alleged abuses in san j. ah.

all right, let's go ahead and bring in our guests from only in maryland, michael d. swain, director of the east asia program at the quincy institute for responsible statecraft . for london, martin jack, author of the book when china rules the world and from beijing, henry, we are one founder of the center for china and globalization. think tank a warm welcome to you all, and thanks so much for joining us today on inside story. henry, let me start with you today in this address, secretary of said blink and said, put simply, united states and china have to deal with each other for the foreseeable future. that's why this is one of the most complex and consequential relationships of any that we have in the world today. first of all, how does china feel about the relationship with the u. s. and secondly, was china expecting this speech from secretary of se blanket? yes, thank you. i think that the actually suckers with last night was was kind of expected, but also quite most of be surprised. wow. because we were thinking after

a minor ministration, you know, a year and a half get, he's on the station. we should make some progress on this most a lot of relations in the war, but abundance still, you know what we expect that these are. busy who can actually made in china and the number one, you know, our arms, no major rivalry for the u. s. and also china as a threat to the google system, which i think it's not really correct because china is really a charms rise. really good for the global economy and also go on the system just being continuity over one 3rd of which is gross china gum law street news was $1.00 to $30.00 countries. and john is actually live with all the party. it's a lot of these channels. success is really a vision,

but also read the book. so i think, you know, you as the child should be on the as a cooperation. but of course we have the competition now really making it as a rat. make it as a alley and make it as a button 2nd to break and put it, you know, sort of our lives and then compete. and they give vast things kind of caused to compete. and that is not so what we spend, i think. but of course, emotional bother, you know, climate change and that many other areas jonathan, us do kind of, i mean, i think we should go more than not just, you know, on, on the, on the on are you looks rivalry of each other, michael so, so as we heard from the secretary of tape lincoln as he was unveiling washington strategy to compete with china. he was also accusing beijing of undermining global security. from your perspective, is that criticism justified?

well, i think that criticism like, with many criticisms that are leveled by both china and the united states of each other. there's an element of truth ahead, but it is inflated and distorted and exaggerated in ways that i think are not healthy. and that really just reinforced the kind of 0, so i'm thinking that both sides increasingly have towards the other. china is a concern to the united states and to other countries in certain ways. but their biggest concern, as i often tell people, is not of specifically china's threat to the west or other countries. it's the threat posed by the kind of interactive worst case in 0, some dynamic that is increasingly coming to the 4 in interactions in relation between china and the united states and some countries of west. it's that dynamic, it's driven by these kinds of grows large,

simplistic narratives that don't account for the different complex across cutting interest of the countries face. it's that kind of narrative that's really a threat to the goal or martin in this speech that was delivered by secretary of state blink. and he outlined washington the grievances with bay jane. he said that china has become more repressive at home and more aggressive abroad under president . she's in ping. why deliver this speech now? how significant is it and what does it do to this relationship between the u. s. and china? that is already really yet at a record low point. i think this is a speech we've been expecting for some time if it's a bit belated, actually, which is the barden administration setting out its position on china and her. so i think that in that sense we, we could, we could see coming. and so what, what, what does it suggest?

i think it suggest that or that. now the key question for the u. s. government is the relationship with china, which it sees us arrival. and i think that the problem is the subtext of this speech is how does america hold on to its numero uno position in the world? can't sustain that position, and it, the whole a burden of the argument is, are in various fields. how does america do this? i'm at the tone of it in places is actually i think quite welcome, particularly in the back end of the speech where he is a being can suggest areas where they can cooperate. but really this, the heart of it is about, ah, china's challenge to the position of the united states. i just like to endorse one

point henry made, which is that, you know, this is a, this is a caricature actually, of china's relationship with the international system. because everything ever since done shopping, china has absolutely committed itself to the international system seeking in the 1st in the join it. and when it is joined, it has been a very strong proponent of it and has always changed in a, in a, in a very reasonable way that it's been ok, great, great beneficiary of it. so this is really not an accurate presentation of the situation. what i would add to that though, the, of course, let's be realistic about this, that when you get the rise of a country, the size of china and the speed with which the transmission transformation has taken place, it is bound to change the world in profound ways and no one can do anything about

that. that's not. that is a reality. that's a historic, the great historic trend of our time and it will continue into the future. henry, one of the ways in which this of speech is being interpreted is that the u. s. is essentially saying that while we want china to, to rise, we also want to make sure that china is doing so within the parameters that the u. s. has, has said. and if we could extrapolate that a little bit more than one example would be, you know, china has invested heavily in the asia pacific region. whereas western nations haven't been investing as heavily does china see, it is arrogant that other countries are saying they don't want china encroaching on those territories or the or that other countries are saying, we want to see china do well. but only if it conforms to our standards of what they should be doing well, i think he only reflect that. that's. that's correct. i'm the one that actually liar reliance. he actually real situation on it. all. those don't the members of a framework that you had just recorded,

and most of them are not labors of china. and most of them imagine the matter. a lot of china channel is their longest dream monitors. so how can you ever come out of a brew? i mean, other words to really say, hey guys, let's get together and then not allow the biggest or, you know, kind of in the region, be part of it. just like and what are you know, you as you so you know, a design fee where is also have that similar function but then challenge them. that's what was it, let's john it, let's work together and the us back off of that. so these are, you know, how long i you can go, i don't know. what i'm saying is that if that has been a warden build of all those, the security military allies and drive on every countries, military budget level, nato expansion, we haven't finalized. we're almost south korea trying to john,

they don't work. we have all kinds of folks on the top marie, we have a form. so, so we're trying, i think it's great, you know, we should pursue this economic organization or bout on row b, you know, and the us, the, the largest recruitment, c, b, the part you know, high, you know, good china, you're getting the mess with judy and john african corporations don't less more economical. ringback you know, corporation if you are still not willing to, but not really trying to build up with circles and then, you know, preventing of blocking certain countries like china, which is already the largest in the region, handles the rising copper, taking over us on your side. michael, we know that the us has not been happy with china's stance when it comes to

russia's invasion of ukraine. how much does china's reaction to that invasion, and how much does china's close relationship to russia play into all of this? well, i think that the ukraine war and rushes attack on crane has reinforced the notion that the framing of the global order today should be democracy versus authoritarianism. because here we haven't examples of an aggressive authoritarian state threatening a democratic or quiz or democratic stage. and that this is just harming are things to com. and so people then look at china and say, well china is an authoritarian state to and i wanted to marcy and china has designs on taiwan. so trying to attack taiwan, just like russia, ukraine. so you get this deeper the sense of this of alarming threat

on posed by these types of states. when in fact the calculations the, the stakes involved, the interests involved in these 2 cases are quite different. and it is a gross simplification and a distortion of the reality to simply apply what's going on in ukraine to what the chinese can do today to taiwan. now, it has, of course, in some ways, reinforced the image of china and russia being aligned with each other, which they are in certain respects. china has not come out and full throated, we endorsed the western nato position about the nature of the war. even though china, very much opposes invasions of sovereign countries by other countries. and china, however, does not want to openly reject russia. but it does not also want to

come out and fully endorse what russia has done, support russia, and try to prevent the west from pressure, russia. henry michael, they're brought up a taiwan. of course, this is playing a role right now when it comes to the u. s is relationship with china, you had president biden in his recent comments on taiwan. those comments angered beijing on tuesday. you said that the u. s. would respond militarily, if the island was attacked, the white house later walked back those comments. but how much has that upset paging? well, i mean, well, you know, cause this year reza might have been talking on quite a few times. and every time driven by it is, you know, we, we respect china on the 6th allies against china. we were really, we were a big by one china policy, but every time that's why he's on to other people. he sounds different so,

so that's really, you know, made china kind of difficult to understand. but also i think that your great thing is really sort of minor to the people of all the, the nato us rossi, which i know because you see why one, sorry, d and terms are in term is why that's really the cause of international condemnation and, and criticism, i mean highways recognized by 16070 countries of china. that's the conditional is done. the diplomatic ties was done. is paulo john. so john national sovereignty and territories that we should use that same as you claim. so i think china, you know, hold on, 1st of all, you are to, to hold on please. we're not against you. praying for those. this is really why that i was the tracy respect was already and i was are in jeopardy of china, which i think, you know, yours is not really doing well on that and really cause a lot of that and also could use it on the international phone as well, martin,

i know the, you touch on this a little bit in your previous answer, but is what we're hearing currently from the, by the ministration. whether it's this address from secretary of state blinkin or whether it's present a biden's remarks with regards to taiwan. does that signal a new policy toward china or where are things really more or less the same? i mean, is the stance that the by the ministration is taking toward china right now close to the stance that the trumpet ministration was taking toward china? yes, i think this, the simple answer is yes. ah, it, of course there are certain differences of emphasis and under tone. but basically what's been striking about the burden administration is the extent to which it's more or less inherited. the trump position on china. it's less bombastic, it doesn't exaggerate in quite the same way the trump did. but basically,

i think we were seeing a consent show shift in american politics towards a new, ah, a new antagonism towards china. i don't think we're in a new cold warrior, but it certainly go aspects of that. and as michael said earlier on, you know, the danger of this kind of situation is that the, the, the, the more extreme a different situation subject can suggest more extreme views, extreme conflicts and you get this slippage. and i think we witnessed this in a number of ways, so far slippage towards a greater antagonism between the 2 countries. i mean, i think we set, you know, up, i'm afraid to say this, but i think this is going to go on for a long time. and, and in fact, in some ways, one of the interesting things about the state, of course, is not new. but one of the interesting statement is the america is,

is sort of preparing itself for the long hold in relationship to this appendix. for example, the emphasis on the importance of improving american competitors, american economic capacities, in lots of different areas. the truth is that america, you know, savagely neglected these kinds of questions for a long time. and so any long term strategy the america has, i think this has to be at the heart of the matter because basically, you know, china has been taking the rest of the cleaners when it comes to this kind of thing . over the last 20 years, michael, i saw you nodding along to quite a bit of what martin was saying. it looked like you want to jump in, so please go ahead and make a point good for the trump administration. i think from ministrations policy towards china was chaotic. i'm, you have different messages being said by different people at different times. and then of course, president trump just riffs as he wishes on the policy was really not very clear in

many ways, except i did have a heavy, illogical tinge to it and had a very heavy hire trade balance tinge to it was based on very simplistic understanding of global trade, but it also wasn't very strategic and i think we're blit, we're, the administration has all of that approach is they've become more organized. i wouldn't say fully strategic, but they become more organized in that they are looking for coalitions and groups of other countries to strengthen their relations with other countries, allies and others in order to develop a broader kind of strategy for connor in china, of a problem with that is it underneath all this as others have eluted is the assumption and you've seen it in blink and speech that there really isn't much point in engaging the child. we know what the chinese are and that's defined in

very start terms as a threat, almost an existential threat in almost every area. yes, we can cooperate with them on areas where there's a strong common interest, like climate change. when, if you're, if you're really a 0, some relationship with the chinese of intense confrontational competition, it can but influence greatly areas where you need to cooperate plus plus what this statement, what this outlook suggests is that because you can talk to the chinese because it doesn't serve any purpose because the chinese won't really respond in good faith. you therefore you can't really engage directly with the chinese truly device editions. you just sort of discount that as a basis for conversation with the chinese and work on trying to shape covered contain the chinese. that's the problem with the by strategy. henry and michael just touched on something that you mentioned in a, in a previous answer in that that's the fact that secretary of state blinking did say

in his remarks that there are areas where the 2 countries should work together, including climate crisis, including combating coping 19 from your perspective, where are there some other areas that the 2 countries feel they can actually work together constructively right now? yes, i think that i agree with the one just my gosh, that the, the polls, the narrative is going on on trees. really are damaging this relation also happened the confidence to court or the future. but i think there's a tremendous so much to collaborate on the addition to what microsoft on climate change and others. i think on the infrastructure, for example, you know, china is the leading country in the last 4 decades. john, as you know, transform the whole country channel. now have 2 thirds of the go. both the real we turn largest continue report upholds now sent over the money china and china of 56000045. just those are cross country and one being smart from users. so that infrastructure not become a consensus with the data. you know,

a person by the proposed one phone to true infrastructure plan, and you has announced the global gateway 300000000000 world to put into that. so why not? you know, we want to get to like what i talked to laura summers. you know, my son is the one of the bags replenished, we're back, let's get a i, b r in action. let's get a d h d in time out, and the mom back, let's go to the bank. we're share the same language to work together to tackle good with georgia magnet will be conscious included into mom conscious. oh, so absolutely. yeah. no, no, we're going to have to post. i'm, you can post. you create a new lawsuit planned on the instructor to help on that. so let's find something similar to work together too, so that we can really not obsessed with all differences. and exactly, and then really, you know, brought out all the proposals and that we don't really have to fight yet. so that's where thank you. all right, well,

we have run out of time. we're going to have to leave our conversation there today . thank you so much. all of our guests, michael swain, martin, jock and henry. we are one. and thank you for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website, algeria dot com, and for further discussion got our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story. you can also join the conversation on twitter. handle is at a j inside story. for me, how much i'm doing the whole team here, bye for now. ah and with join the debate, wonderful as it is this to the to magic language. it really means nothing on the

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