the part a, the jury prize is also shared between ear gentle filled, exploring the world to the eyes of a donkey. and so i want to mandolin can solomon lloyd are traveling harassing and 8 mountains, and epic love letter to friendship. that nature set the italian out this year can her celebrated story today. there are no car chases and special effects, and he's winning films. just stories well told that remind us of the power of independent cinema charlie angela. how does yeah. ah, type a quick check of the headlines here on al jazeera police and texas self facing intense criticism for their inaction during the deadliest school shooting in the united

states. and nearly a decade. families are demanding answers offered, emerged, but officers waited 78 minutes before storming the classroom. photos in columbia, gearing up for some days, presidential election. 3 of the 4 main candidates faced off and a final tv debate, opinion polls place rebel turned politician gustavo petro. as the front runner, lea central anchor fired tear gas and water cannon to disperse demonstrators, heading for the president's office, the protest without demanding the resignation, the president got to buy a roger boxer. they blame him for an economic crisis that left the country without enough fuel food or medicine. you and human rights, she says china must not use legitimate concerns about terrorism to justify human rights abuses. michelle bachelor visited the shin jang region where chinese authorities are accused of abuses against the weaker ethnic minority group. but as the headline that continues here on, on to 0 off the inside story,

thank you and thanks for watching bye for now. me the no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. i don't need to be here with you to look at me. when you get to me, i can also you can just get a message. can you open the home and ya today, and we're going to give you what we set up, what they sent me a lot of them a lot of other possible give me one. i mean, i mean,

i shooting a lot of data ah selling ivory to help conservation that's the fits zimbabwe is making to the world as it tries to support a growing elephant population is unethical ivory rate possible or just a slippery slope to more slaughter? this is inside story. ah

hello and welcome to the program. i am hush him abala. zimbabwe has an elephant problem fall from being endangered. their numbers have goes totally. specialists is the weld band, either trading. now's in bob. we and others won't. that band lifted, saying it would help protect the animals will bring in august. shortly after this report from the harding showing the wears of a trade blacklisted for decades. zimbabwe. once this ivory on the market, legally, it's invited ambassadors from around the world to view. it's heavily guarded stockpile. believe to be worth $600000000.00. zimbabwe says selling the tusks would help it pay for better conservation for kroger. e.

indeed, it's really, really where we finally incur before. what are you for them, bob? we are to be on all the ongoing fair of our nation, or i would of global trade. an ivory has been banned since 1989 by sites, an international body that monitors endangered species. officials ends and bob way say the elephant population has since grown to a 100000, a conservation marvel, but one that's led to environmental destruction and increased attacks on humans. this success story where we have managed to grow our 11 population from wage was in the seventy's, which is less than 5000 to something which is more than 1000 times mall to where we sit, to date that to do so demonstrate the success. but the success need to be controlled when, who are the countries in southern africa, want to be able to sell ivory acquired through natural animal deaths as well as

confiscations and calling. they have the support of nations where ivory is popular, like china and japan. but many governments, an animal rights organizations believe lifting the ban risks a returned to the slaughter that's decimated many species. that's a very good danger, you know, to already in didn't species. you know, if i was that accident into the extinction that i know that, oh, so it fit into the extensions emitted by that on to others. question, who would benefit from a ban? the theory behind selling ivory is fine and elephant died of natural causes. you collect the ivory, you sell it in the and the price is going back to local communities. the sad reality is that it just hasn't worked that way. once you have a marketing i've read, you have a high value placed on i've read it dustin, you're like, oh gee, that's of you born from experience when one off,

ivory sales were allowed in the late 19 ninety's and again in 2008, poaching escalated across africa, lia hardin reporting for inside story. ah, less real gas in hurry, janasia photo is spokesman for this in bob way. parks and wildlife management authority in dorking will tell us is conservationist and executive president of the board free foundation. welcome to the program to negotiate why is selling zimbabwe is talk pile of seized ivory crucial for conservation. i thank you very much. i think what the world needs to understand is and we have had a successful story in terms of managing our life. what we are seeing is it is out of wood management practices for many, many years. and it's not chad. the majority of that i voted doesn't come from my i

recovery is from which as, but the majority of that i voted comes natural mortality. this animal is just the just let you in me the die in retrieve. i 40. 0 for, for safe keeping. what is important for us to create value from the ivory that we have been keeping for many, many is, is not only for the been if you don't go thought it, but also for the benefit of the communities would bid the branch of sharing blood as with blood life, these are the people who are cued every day by these animals. these are the people was crops i destroyed. these are the people. whoa, whoa, slave rules i destroyed by these animals. so if we sell this ivory, we are not only going to capacity are closer vision if what we're also going to show that our communities benefits. we are also going to ensure that we're going to

build schools for our people, roads clinics in communities with animals. once our vision is inexpensive, business, the elephants that we are talking about in public, they're not in the ne dad, is out of hardwick investment into these are in, in forward life. i've spoken about her getting, i voted for omar, natural mortality. if you're flying, for example, around initial pad, you see a did elephant. you need to ask people to walk in, collect that over to you. it takes money to drive vehicles, 450 kilometers where there are no road for go and pick that a body. you keep it in a stock pal, expecting that it can get something out of it. best fuel used went below that ever . they are people or do or those things that people do are learn forced man, our unfortunate patrols. they need resources, we need vehicles, we need helicopters just for petrol to make sure that this success story is

maintained. so it needs money to look after the animal ok. well, in theory, what zimbabwe botswana and many other countries are saying makes perfect sense. they saying that basically they have this talk pile of tasks. ryan, a horse which they want to sell because he's going to generate hundreds of millions of dollars with that money. they would be able to improve the standers for the conservation of the growing elephant population. unfortunately, i fundamentally disagree with all of that. i mean tarley, sympathetic to the authorities in terms of their need to find innovative financing mechanisms to carry out their conservation agenda and also to the communities who desperately need additional. so court. but it's not going to come from selling ivory. the figures that have been banded around you yourself just

mentioned a figure of 600000000 less. let's remind ourselves that the sale of 50 tons of ivory in $1099.00 generated just $5000000.00 and the sale of a $102.00 tons of ivory in 2009 generated just 15, $15000000.00 us dollars. and if the reports of the amount of ivory in this, in barbara stockpile, a $130.00 tons also are true, they might, were there even a market, they might realize maybe $20000000.00, which would get consumed in paying off the deficit in the operating costs of december national parks, there is no market. china does not have a domestic ivory market any more. the usa does not have a domestic ivory market. the e u has just tightened up its domestic ivory market guidelines and the u. k. is

about to bring in a virtual ban on the domestic sale of ivory on june the 6th. the only way, the only places that is in barb way were it to get the support of the international community, which i honestly will tell you it won't. the only place it will be able to sell at ivory is to non parties to cities. and there are only about 9 of them, including some very small island states and north korea. i just cannot see this as a viable route, so we must go beyond this discussion and look for better ways of supporting african elephant range states. by the way, the majority of whom are opposed to any international commercial sale of ivory. and we must go beyond those discussions and start looking for ways of innovatively financing, the conservation of elephants, and the support for local communities,

tennessee. so this is the thing, this is a concern that the international community has about allowing the sale of the stockpile of ivory because they say this is just go into little another coaching epidemic in the african continent. you know, there's no, there's no evidence to that. i know, and i know it is been banned since 1975, but it does not stop pushing for anal. in fact is on the increase. if we are going to legalize what we have, it means there will be no need for people to illegally say in this, in i, what was the market will be sexually did. the market will be obviously, will meet the market was the i vote is there, it will continue to be there for 10. it was the animals, are they grow or they die? will you to the, the sort the market will remain there. what do you want to do is make sure that we sustainably manage our resource? how are we sustainably managing art?

is, was willing to ensure that we create value, we monetize, so that people see incentives in terms of looking after these animals is i'm speaking to you now. we have lost that 5 lives from genuine in terms ofa human one left conflict. last year we lost the age in and it's a does it? it's a pain to ask is a good pain to look after this and business. if it is, there is no sign in what you are simply appealing to the international community. listen to saying, listen to what santa saying in less follow same listening decisions based on the same. let's make decisions based on a decision. let's make decisions based on evidence not to use emotions. not to politicize this issue anymore. no, no politics. they no, no bound to in what was simply saying is we must at least for one's allow us to get value out of that is was that we have if we do that, we also ensure that a community has been issued. let i say these are the people who are queued every day. these are the people while losing their lives. almost every day they have

nothing to show 40. and at the end of the day when people use the emotions to make decisions. and by the way, people must to know that africa is not monolithic. what is happening, the southern africa is what, what is happening with africa is never got west africa or across the continent. and when we say our listings are overpopulated, isn't with them that you guys this evidence to that in that evidence must be respected. we that he says we do to such as we find out this is what we have. one get national park, for example, is 14620 spec. let me just one elephant. once the kilometer we are sitting on more than $45000.00, which means we have more than doubled the maximum, ecological kidding. capacity of that pad in the many other parks around the country . and when we say these things it hit task when you see how much. 6 loss, we are suffering tim's of happy dad. i was, you know, the elephant vivid tendons of looking don't. she's in,

they're moving out on district. this was the overpopulated. and then not only effect on the one speech, the elephant, we're vouchers which are also facing extinction. and because they can only be in a, in a, in a city g i, it was the elephant. they're not done. she's missed the breathing cycle. voters evicted with giraffes, which also favor some sit. and she's like is, yeah, it says i know that. so it's a disaster that way to, to have been, it's not only about the elephant that are talking about in to us. we think we must be. why did we, does it on the big not the slip that we are getting. let's say, let's follow science. well now, one of the arguments advanced by the advocates of lifting the band or the ivory trait is of the money generated. although there is no general consensus about the value of that money generated will end up being disturbed. return among the local community, which thrives and lives around the national parks in the african continent. if you do that, you will help them fight against boats. if you don't do that,

they will just rely on poaching to survive themselves. well, this is an argument that has been put forward by those countries that practice what's called community based natural resource management, cb and r m. and one of the most recent reports your, my fellow guest talks about evidence of one of the most recent reports looking into the values of community based natural resource management at the site level. in other words, what does it mean for those individuals who live around protected areas? what do they get out of it? and the answer is almost nothing. we're talking about entire communities that benefit at a level of sometimes less than one us dollar per person per year. your guest also talks about there being no evidence that term renewing the international,

commercial trade and ivory would lead to a further poaching of elephants. i beg to differ, please look at what happened in tanza near in 2010 to 2014. following the one off sale that took place in 2009 tanza near last 1000 elephants every month, on average for 5 years. they lost 60000 elephants more than 60000 elephants in the 5 years that followed the last time we had a one off sale. a one of commercial sale of ivory. evidence to the other side is look at what's going on in kenya, which had a massive problem with poaching of elephants, which meant that its elephant population was just over 16000 in 1989. today the elephant population has more than doubled. it is $35000.00 and there is no appetite

in kenya for a return to the ivory trade. and indeed there is no commercial trophy hunting of elephants or other species either to nazi you've heard what, what has just said, which is basically there is no consensus among african nations about how to move forward. the kenny, as for example, are saying that the problem with lifting the band is just going to remove the stigma associated with buying ivory. if you do that, you just opened the gate for the smugglers, for the gangsters, for the criminal syndicates to thrive once again in the african continent. i think i've given you an example of that. i think there's a problem when the world treats africa is, is one really big. why didn't begin to give examples of what his opinions about was? what happened in his, in bible is different from what happens in other countries. we are on our own. when it comes to looking after our innocence and we are left to road to the grid,

let it, it's a good pain to boast of these numbers of animals, of elephants, for no benefit, isn't it? it's important. i have mentioned it earlier that there is no evidence that bending of ivory. well, we'll stop pushing nitrous and interface for n o and said was banned. but this one didn't cuz for more than 40 years now there's no that if you didn't as a country or is a region we've put mechanisms in place that we fight pushing we, we have reduced to pushing by more than 80 percent. how did you do that? we have put systems in place to make sure that we wanted to our paths. we do learn most men. we do a little and to punch in. we are working with the judiciary and they did it in the punishment that people get for being position. i voted vegetarian do now in the putting incident on the increase of at the last 5 years and that's the good with that we had dream. it was a working with the balloon, forced me against the police,

where we're going to do to sherry all my just to appreciate word, life claims and all of this effort that i say it needs it needs to be supported. how do support that? i'll do separate communities, i mean, it is which i living at on this path when they are not benefiting, that would definitely allow for jazz because they're not getting anything is what has come do not a little thought. it is what they're not getting anything. but if they drive something, they see the animals isn't economic opportunity. darrow's been constructed, they shouldn't are getting jobs. i think it's, it's not fair. put a village out would be there, or in a while get today. whoa, whoa, is not getting even a single cent. and this decision said, it's unfortunate that being made to buy people in some air conditioned offices in london in new york. some of them, they've never seen an elephant in their life. they don't know how it feels to compete for what with animals they do not use for, for a head of elephants inventing, you'll, you'll, you'll, you'll, you'll, you'll clubs,

and these are levels that are being destroyed. and when they say these things, we are simply saying we are open, we are transparent, and is to come in see for themselves fully a fortnight ago. we've had these ambassadors from you look, destro, appreciate was some of them. they don't even believe that of that kind of histo and people are making this decision some way in geneva somewhere far, far, far away from what is happening. so people must come and see for themselves. they make decisions based on evidence was what dressings, what is hip in one to ground? our, our elephants are over it, it is important to note that this come to this country that are causing bubble is expanding with head an increase in terms of human population. more than double fermented e jealously of what is of all the animal pavilion of also more than doubled for the password in by the can desert. expanding our understand that is worse. it's a good pain legacy. as to look up that is animal. emma. good. this was a plane, i see a point, let me go to worry well grappling with how to move forward when it comes to the

lifting of the ban. the sites which are the conventional international trade in endangered species. in 19992008 tried the one off sales. and they said this is where this was going to be the unique way to insure a steady supply of stockpiled ivory into the international market. but then there was a divided legacy about what happened next year. and i think if we're going to learn the lessons of history, then we have to learn from those $21.00 off sales. and what happened to elephant subsequently, the great elephant census of 2016 indicates that the number of elephants in africa is now standing at around 400000, down from over 600000. when the 1st band was brought in in 1989. your guest talks about africa not being homogenous and of course is absolutely

right. but what happens in one country if one country is successful in persuading the international community to restart the insurer for ivory trade can have dire consequences for elephant populations across the entire continent. which is why the vast majority, the vast majority of african elephant range states that members of the african elephant coalition are against any further trade. we, we must find a way of moving forward. and there is, you know, there are opportunities, for example, research carried out by ralph shami of the international monetary fund, indicates that the ecosystem services are provided by an individual elephant in terms of its ability to sequester carbon. throughout its life time put a monetary value, which august is very keen on, pointing out a monetary value on that elephant of $1700000.00 across its lifespan. so

by keeping that elephant alive, we are able to realize ecosystem services to the value of $1750000.00. it's a process that is in its infancy. but if we can accelerate that, and i believe that there will be a pilot program for this particular initiative happening in west africa later this year. then those communities, those very communities that he talks about, the communities that do desperately need support opportunities, clinics, roads, educational facilities, could benefit by a significant amount of money by keeping their elephants alive and protecting them from poachers, rather than the one off dividend that happens when an elephant is poached to nancy . there's absolutely no doubt the great effort you you've been doing and the

conservation is the engineers have been doing in the african continent. you do understand at the same time that the problem were there. if you, if you allow for this type of ban, listin is just going to pay the way for the illegal ivory to be loaded into the legal market. or she's going to create a massive problem. do you think this is going to be the moment for you to think about different ways to be able to generate the cash you'd be looking forward to have to maintain the work you've been doing? you know, you know, what is important for people to, to understand at what we are going through is a country, not what this, this, this, this, that a friends of teaching us is east africa is in babbling yet is unbearable or southern f as part of africa what we are simply saying to the international community is listen to science. what is science telling us? let's follow same. let's not do the motion. this not just politics. it's important to note. people are giving examples that the fellow guest is talking about. what

happened in tanzania, what happened in those things? not hippy news. and bob, we are simply saying treat as differently. one says sheets or doesn't wake. i know and said has been banned since 1975. what is happening? one says is or doesn't work. what to weeks, let's do analysis, individual analysis, individual kind of the challenges that you're going through. what needs to be done as a country individual in primarily as a region is subject. because if you look at the 400000 remaining elephant, that means in africa, more than 2 thirds of them in southern africa. and we are doing something right to make sure that it is we could this it is or thank is said that people look is said that people don't even have the elephant are making decisions on people do if elephant some, i mean to me i've always sage blood that take maybe 2000 elephant, the can room freely in london. you can room freely, new york,

you can take them. and so that you know how to use a parent every night. you spent all night loans, roaring, elephant moving around, you know, the next day you want to send your children to school in a patch that we are losing our happy that we are losing our trees. and most of this things, like i said, thank you. as a vision is expanded and most of our parks, duran or, and it is in border in it needs money to do that. unfortunately, we're running out of time by in the meantime, tennessee or follow and will tell us. i really appreciate your, his, i thank you and thank you to for watching, you can see the program again. any time by visiting our website, al jazeera dot com for further discussion. go to our facebook page, thus facebook dot com forward slash ha. inside saw you can also join the conversation on twitter. i'll hand that is at a james, i thought from the house model that i am the tire team here in doha bye for now.

ah short films of hope and inspiration, a series of short personal stories that highlight the human triumph against the odds ah al jazeera select we understand the differences and similarities of cultures across the world center my tell when you call home will but you can use in

current affairs that matter to year, for over a century, american parents have entrusted their sons to the boy scouts of america, hoping they would gain skills that would improve their lives. instead, counters, young lives were ruined by predators within the organization and new was so late. but i could not figure out where it was coming from. in a 3 part series, full blown investigates, a massive scandal that raw the united states scoutmaster part to on al jazeera. ah, hello, i'm down, jordan in dough. how? with a quick reminder, the top stories here on al jazeera, texas police are facing intense criticism for their inaction during the deadliest school shooting in the us. and nearly a decade, families are demanding.