rights police entered the stadium itself to try and remove intruders authorities struggling to keep control after this game was moved from st. petersburg with just a few months notice. but tensions continued afterwards. as local youngsters goaded the defeated liverpool fans absolutely try us as we can out of the ground. there's all the guys to close out with a bit of shambolic really not really fun for you to have such a big event. like today my seems a bit of bottles were thrown out right. police as tear gas was deployed an ugly end to a match that will be remembered mainly for the wrong reasons. poll reese al jazeera paris. ah, and let's take you through some of the headlines now. i'll tra nationalist, religious jewish groups have entered the along so most compound in occupied east

jerusalem had the annual flag march. it's feared the rally could lead to violence at a time of heights. intention, a memorial service is being held. the 19 school children and 2 teachers killed on tuesday in the u. s. town of you val day president joe biden as again cold, so tough a gun. laws is due to meet the victims, families. the governor of savanna done yet skin ukraine says that troops may have to retreat as russia steps up its assault. it's one of the last major ukrainian held cities, little hans creegan, colombians head to the poles in the coming hours to vote for a new president. for the 1st time in history, a left could win holes showing rebel turned politician gustavo petro is the front runner though he had lives. the news continues here and i'll just say are off the

inside story. the what, what do we need to know that on the fish? i don't need to be with them. when you look at me, when you put them, you know, unless you open the home and ya today and we're going to give you what we said as well. they didn't put me in. i'm a lot of them at the when i don't, i mean, i mean,

i shooting them off and just talk to al jazeera, we ask, what is the time table in your mind? when do you think that you are, can be off of russian gas? we listen or, and i have seen and played football with these refugees, i look at them and they're happy. they're smiling. we meet with global news makers and talk about the store. restock matter on out you see him selling ivory to help conservation. that's the fits in bob ways making to the world as it tries to support a growing elephant population. is unethical, either a trade possible or just a slippery slope to more slaughter. this is inside story. ah

hello and welcome to the program. i am ha sham. abala. zimbabwe has an elephant problem fall from being endangered. their numbers have grows totally. specialists is the weld band, either trading. now's in bob. we and others won't. that's been lifted, saying it will help protect the animals. will bring in august, shortly after this report from the harding a showing the wears of a trade blacklisted for decades. them bob way wants this ivory on the market. legally. it's invited ambassadors from around the world to view it's heavily guarded stockpile. believe to be worth $600000000.00, zimbabwe says selling the tusks would help it pay for better conservation wouldn't come cruising. you indeed give me

a favor. if we kindly incur before what are you for him, bob? we are to be a lot of the ongoing fair of our national i would have for global trade. an ivory has been banned since 1989 by sites, an international body that monitors endangered species. officials ends and bob way say the elephant population has since grown to a 100000, a conservation marvel, but one that's led to environmental destruction and increased attacks on humans. these, this success story where we have managed to grow a live in population from wage was in the seventy's, which is less than 5000 to something which is more than 1000 times mall to where we see today that can you so demonstrate the success. but the success mid to be controlled when, who are the countries in southern africa want to be able to sell ivory acquired

through natural animal deaths as well as confiscations and calling. they have the support of nations where ivory is popular like china and japan. but many governments, an animal rights organizations believe lifting the ban, risks are returned to the slaughter that's decimated many species. that's a very good and danger, you know, to already in didn't species. you know, if i was that at that it into the extinction that i know that, oh so it fit into the extensions emitted by that on to others. question, who would benefit from a ban? the theory behind ceiling, ivory is fine. an elephant died of natural causes. you collect the ivory, you sell it in the and the pricing to go back to local communities. the sad reality is that it just hasn't worked that way. once you have a marketing, i've read, you have a high value placed on ivory. it does stimulate, hopefully, that's of you born from experience. when one off,

ivory sales were allowed in the late 19 ninety's. and again in 2008, poaching escalated across africa. leah hardin reporting for inside story. ah, less real gas in hurry, janasia photo is spokesman for those involved with parks and wildlife management authority in dorking. will tell us is conservationist and executive president of the board free foundation. welcome to the program. to negotiate why is selling zimbabwe is talk pile of seized ivory crucial for conservation. i thank you very much. i think what the world needs to understand is and we have had a successful story in terms of managing our life. what we are seeing is it is out of wood management at this is for many, many years. and it's not chad. the majority of that i voted doesn't come from my

recoveries from which, as, but the majority of that i voted comes from natural mortality. this animal is just that just let you in me the day and we'll see if i 4004 for safe keeping. what is important for us to create value from the i 40 that we have been keeping for many, many is, is not only for the been, if you don't go thought it. but also for the benefit of the communities would bid the branch of shedding blood as with blood life. these are the people all cued every day by these animals. these are the people was clubs i destroyed. these are the people. whoa, whoa, slave rules i destroyed by these animals. so if we sell this ivory, we are not only going to capacity to close a vision if what we are also going to show that our communities benefit. we are also going to ensure that we are going to boot schools for our people,

roads clinics in communities with the animals are ones, a vision is inexpensive, dismiss the elephants that we are talking about in in bubbly. they're not in the nose, is to dead is out or had wick investment into these are in forward life. i've spoken about her getting ivory from mine, natural motel. it if you're flying, for example, around initial pad. you see a did elephant. you need to ask people to go in, collect that avoid it, and it takes money to drive vehicles, 450 kilometers where they are no road for go and pick that a body. you keep it in a stock pail, expecting that it can get something out of the best fuel used when plug that ever. they are people or do or those things that people will do our learn 1st man, our origin patrols, they need drizzle vehicles. we need helicopters just for petrol to make sure that

this success story is maintained so it needs money to look after the animal. ok. well, in theory what zimbabwe botswana, and many other countries are saying makes perfect sense. they saying that basically they have this talk pile of tasks, ryan, a horse which they want to sell because he's going to generate hundreds of millions of dollars with that money. they would be able to improve the standers for the conservation of the growing elephant population. unfortunately, i fundamentally disagree with all of that. i mean tarley, sympathetic to the authorities in terms of their need to find innovative financing mechanisms to carry out their concentration agenda and also to the communities who desperately need additional support. but it's not going to come from selling ivory. the figures that have been banded around you yourself have just

mentioned a figure of 600000000 less. let's remind ourselves that the sale of 50 tons of ivory in $1099.00 generated just $5000000.00 and the sale of a $102.00 tons of ivory in 2009 generated just 15, $15000000.00 us dollars. and if the reports of the amount of ivory in this, in barbara stockpile, a $130.00 tons also are true, they might, were there even a market, they might realize maybe $20000000.00, which would get consumed in paying off the deficit in the operating costs of december national parks, there is no market. china does not have a domestic ivory market any more. the usa does not have a domestic ivory market. the e u has just tightened up. it's domestic or ivory market guidelines,

and the u. k. is about to bring in a virtual ban on the domestic sale of ivory on june the 6th. the only way, the only places that are zimbabwe were it to get the support of the international community, which i honestly will tell you, it won't. the only place it will be able to sell at ivory is to non parties to cities. and there are only about 9 of them, including some very small island states and north korea. i just cannot see this as a viable route, so we must go beyond this discussion and look for better ways of supporting african elephant range states. by the way, the majority of whom are opposed to any international commercial sale of ivory. and we must go beyond those discussions and start looking for ways of innovatively financing, the conservation of elephants, and the support for local communities,

tennessee. so this is the thing, this is a concern that the international community has about allowing the sale of the stockpile of ivory because they say this is just go into little another coaching epidemic in the african continent. you know, there's not, there's no evidence to that. i know, and then i know it is been banned since 975, but it does not stop pushing for i know, in fact is on the increase. if we are going to legalize what we have, it means there will be no need for people to illegally say in this, in i, what was the market will be sexually did. the market will be obviously, will meet the market was the i vote is that it will continue to be there for 10. it was the animals, are they grow or they die? we to the, the so the market will remain there. what you want to do is make sure that we sustainably manage our resource. how are we sustainably managing art is was willing

to ensure that we create value, we monetize, so that people see incentives in terms of looking after these animals is, am speaking to you. now we have lost that to 5 lives from genuine in terms ofa, human one left conflict. last year we lost the age in and it's a does it? it's a pain to ask is a good pain to look after this and business. if it is, there is no sign in what you are simply appealing to. the international community is listened to saying, listen to what sense is saying in less follow saying, let's make decisions based on sign. let's make decisions based on the decision. let's make decisions based on evidence not to use emotions, not to politicize this issue, and the most, no, no politics. the no, no bound to what i simply saying is we must at least for one's allow us to get value out of the resource that we have. you can do that. we also ensure that our community has been issued. let i say these are the people who are huge every day. these are the people while losing their lives. almost every day they have nothing

to show 40. and at the end of the day when people use the motions to make decisions . and by the way, people must to know that africa is not monolithic. what is happening, the southern africa is what, what is happening with africa is never got west africa or across the continent. and when we say our elephants are overpopulated, isn't with them that you guys this evidence to that in that evidence must be respected. we are sage. we do to such as we find out this is what to have. one, get national park, for example, is 14620 big. let me just one elephant wants me kilometer we are sitting on more than 45000, which means we have more than doubled the maximum, ecological kidding. capacity of that pad in the other parts around the country. and when we say these things, it hit us when you see how much a loss we are suffering timms of a happy that cause you know, the elephant vivid tendons of looking don't. she's in,

they're moving out on district. this was the overpopulated. and then not only effect on the, on the speech, the elephant where vouchers which are also facing extinction. and because they can only breed in a, in a, in a city and she hate, it was the elephant. they're not done. she's missed the breathing cycle. voters afflicted with giraffes, which also favor some sit and she's like is yeah, it says i know that. so it's a disaster that way to, to have been it's not only about the elephant that are talking about into us. we think we must be. why did we does it on the big not to slip that we are good to listen. let's follow science. well. now, one of the arguments advanced by the advocates of lifting the band or the ivory trade is of the money generated. although there is no general consensus about the value of that money generated will end up being disturbed. return among the local community which thrives and lives around the national parks in the african continent. if you do that, you will help them fight against boats in if you don't do that,

there will just rely on poaching to survive themselves. well, this is an argument that has been put forward by those countries that practice what's called community based natural resource management. cb and r m, and one of the most recent reports your, my fellow guest talks about evidence of one of the most recent reports looking into the values of community based natural resource management at the site level. in other words, what does it mean for those individuals who live around protected areas? what do they get out of it? and the answer is almost nothing. we're talking about the entire communities that benefit at a level of sometimes less than one us dollar per person per year. your guest also talks about there being no evidence that her renewing the international,

commercial trade and ivory would lead to a further poaching of elephants. i beg to differ, please look at what happened in tanza near in 2010 to 2014. following the one off sale that took place in 2009 tanza near last 1000 elephants every month, on average for 5 years. they lost 60000 elephants more than 60000 elephants in the 5 years that followed the last time we had a one off sale. a one of commercial sale of ivory. evidence to the other side is look at what's going on in kenya, which had a massive problem with poaching of elephants, which meant that its elephant population was just over 16000 in 1989. today the elephant population has more than doubled. it is $35000.00 and there is no appetite

in kenya for a return to the ivory trade. and indeed there is no commercial trophy hunting of elephants or other species either to nazi you've heard what will has just said, which is basically there is no consensus among african nations about how to move forward. the kenny, as for example, are saying that the problem with lifting the band is just going to remove the stigma associated with buying ivory. if you do that, you just opened the gate for the smugglers, for the gangsters, for the criminal syndicates to thrive once again in the african continent. i think i've given you an example of that. i think there's a problem when the world africa is, is one really big. why didn't begin to give examples of what is opinions about was what happens in is in bubble is different from what happens in other countries. we are on our own. when it comes to looking after our innocence and we are left to

road to the grid, let it, it's a good pain to boast of these numbers of animals, of elephants, for no benefit, isn't it? it's important. i've mentioned it earlier that there is no evidence that bending of ivory. well, we'll stop pushing nitrous and interface for and i wanted was banned. but this one didn't cuz for more than 40 years now there's no that if you didn't as a country or is a region we've put mechanisms in place that we fight pushing we, we have reduced approaching by more than 80 percent. how did you do that? we have put systems in place to make sure that we monitor our paths. we do learn most men. we do a lot of anti punching we are, we can the judiciary and they did it in the punishment that people get for being propositional. i voted vegetarian do now in the putting incident on the increase of at the last 5 years and that's the good with that we had dream. it was a working with the balloon for some adjust the police where we're going to the

judiciary. all my just to appreciate word, life claims and all this effort that i say it needs, it needs to be supported. i do support that. i do support communities. i mean, it is which i living at on this path when they are not benefiting, they will definitely allow for jazz because then it getting anything if but as come do not a little thought, it was not getting anything but it's big drive something to see the animals isn't economic opportunity. darrow's been constructed that shouldn't getting jobs. i think it's, it's not fair for the village out will you be there or in a while, get today what, whoa is not getting even a single sent. and this decision said, it's unfortunate that being made to buy people in some air conditioned offices in london in new york. some of them, they've never seen an elephant in their life. they don't know how it feels to compete for what with animals they do not use for, for a head of elephants inventing, you'll, you'll, you'll, you'll, you'll, you'll, you'll crops,

and these are levels that are being destroyed. and when they say these things, we are simply saying we are open, we are transparent, and is to come in see for themselves fully a fortnight ago, we've had these ambassadors from europe to destro. appreciate was some of them. they don't even believe that of that kind of histo and people are making this decision some way in geneva somewhere far, far away from what is happening. so people must come and see for themselves. they make decisions based on evidence was less things. what is happening one to ground our, our events of it. it is important to note that this come to this country that are causing bubble is really expanding with head an increase in terms of human population, more than double fermented a delicious, if. what is of all the animal population of also more than doubled for the password in by the can desert, expanding our understand that is worse. it's a good pain legacy. as to look up that is animal. emma. good. this is fossil praying. i see a point, let me go to where he will grappling with how to move forward when it comes to the

lifting of the ban. the sites which is the conventional international trade in endangered species in 19992008 tried the one off sales. and they said, this is what this was going to be the unique way to insure a steady supply of stockpiled ivory into the international market. but then there was a divided legacy about what happened next year. and i think if we're going to learn the lessons of history, then we have to learn from those $21.00 off sales, and what happened to elephant subsequently, the great elephant census of 2016 indicates that the number of elephants in africa is now standing at around 400000, down from over 600000 when the 1st band was brought in in 1989. your guest talks about africa not being homogenous and of course is absolutely

right. but what happens in one country if one country is successful in persuading the international community to restart the insurer for ivory trade can have dire consequences for elephant populations across the entire continent. which is why the vast majority, the vast majority of african elephant range states, members of the african elephant coalition, are against any further trade. we, we must find a way of moving forward. and there is, you know, there are opportunities. for example, we search carried out by ralph shami of the international monetary fund, indicates that the ecosystem services are provided by an individual elephant in terms of its ability to sequester carbon throughout its life time put a monetary value which august is very keen on, pointing out a monetary value on that elephant of $1700000.00 across its lifespan. so

by keeping that elephant alive, we are able to realize ecosystem services to the value of $1750000.00. it's a process that is in its infancy. but if we can accelerate that, and i believe that there will be a pilot program for this particular initiative happening in west africa later this year. then those communities, those very communities that he talks about, the communities that do desperately needs support opportunities, clinics, roads, educational facilities, could benefit by a significant amount of money by keeping their elephants alive and protecting them from poachers, rather than the one off dividend that happens when an elephant is poached to nazi. there's absolutely no doubt the great effort you you've been doing and the

conservation is the engineers have been doing in the african continent. you do understand at the same time that the problem were there. if you, if you allow for this type of ban, lifton is just going to pay the wave for the illegal ivory to belittle dirt into the legal market. or she's going to create a massive problem. do you think this is going to be the moment for you to think about different ways to be able to generate the cash be looking forward to have to maintain the work you've been doing? you know, it is important for people to, to understand at what we have going through is a country, not what this, this, this, this, that a friends of teaching us is east africa is in babbling yet is unbearable or southern f as part of africa. what we are simply saying to the international community is listen to science. what is science telling us? let's follow same. let's not do the motion. this not just politics. it's important to note. people are giving examples that the fellow guest is booking about what

happened in tanzania. what happened in those things, not hippy news. and bob, we are simply saying treat as differently. one says sheets or doesn't wake. i know and said there's been band since 1975. what is happening? one says is or doesn't work. what works. let's do analysis, individual analysis, individual kind of the challenges that you're going through. what needs to be done as a country individual and primarily as a region, is that because if you look at the $400000.00 a remaining elephant, that means in africa, more than to dissolve in mind southern africa. and we are doing something right to make sure that it is we could, this it is or thank is said that people look is said that people don't even have the elephants are making decisions on people do. if elephant some, i mean to me i've always said who does that take? maybe to 1000 an elephant, the can room freely in london. you can room for the new york,

you can take them. and so that you know how to use a parent every night. you spent all night loans, roaring, elephant moving around, you know, the next day you want to send your children to school in a pat that we are losing our happy that we are losing our trees. and most of these things, like i said, thank you. as a vision is expanded of most of our parks, duran or his in board, and he needs money to do that. unfortunately, we're running out of time. but in the meantime, tennessee follow, and we'll tell us, i really appreciate your, his, i thank you and thank you to for watching, you can see the program again any time by visiting our website, al jazeera dot com for further discussion. go to our facebook page, thus facebook dot com forward slash ha insights for you can also join the conversation on twitter. i'll hand that is at a james. i started from the house, mike about on the entire team here in doha bye for now.

the latest news, as it breaks sharon's grave has now been sealed, but even after her death she continued to tell policy and story with detailed coverage. a newly released report says that gun related death in the united states reached an all time high during the pandemic from around the world. the heavy pushback has long been a whole lot of the outgoing had ministration rodriguez. her date had little tolerance. the descent ah domain, the intersection of reality and comedy in post revolution, tennessee, or her mission, to entertain, educates and provoke debate through satire, her weapon of choice, theater, an intimate look at what inspires one of tennessee, as most popular comedians to make people laugh. nitin is yeah, hair on al jazeera to young women in morocco,

staying with local families. morocco really woke me up and it definitely changed my life in a good way. american students learning to live in north africa and getting better at haggling and shopping in morocco. al jazeera world follows their journeys of cultural emotion, leading to some surprising consequences. an american in my home on al jazeera ah sanctions high as these railey alternation as dues tried to storm the alarm, some of compound had of an annual flag rally to mark the.