so community grey, what is it doing about it and why is it standing aside and why just so indifferent . the issue here, and that's what enables is or to continue to do this also provocations and that sort of killing and that's sort of racism. and that's what i can go over and basically expanding the issue or part of it, because it's not only ignored, but the international community. it's enabled by the international community, the international committee, rewards israel for its policy. and joseph. okay, thank you for that marlin bush, our senior political editor there. now of course all this is happening just days after the murder fall colleague, serene clay israeli forces in janine out is there. a media network continues to demand a rapid, independent, and transparent investigation into a killing. here are some images from terean's, extraordinary career, which and had the title,

the voice of palestine. me the what, what do we need to know that on this which i don't need to be with them when you look at me about how to put them to me, i can also reach any of you open at the home and ya today and i was gonna tell you what we said as well, they didn't put me in a lot of fun at the book. if you're the one i know, i mean, i mean me

shooting off and you feel asleep on this is al jazeera, these top stories, tensions are high and okay. parties tourism where ultra nationalists, religious jewish groups have been holding the annual flag march. they were confrontations between palestinian residents, new york city and members of the alter nationalist, jewish group, raised security for several of them. also been confrontations between palestinians and israelis. security forces in nablus. the city has seen some of the worst violence in the occupied west bank in the last week. us president joe biden has arrived in evolved a texas to come families of america's west school shooting in many

a decade. 19 children and 2 teachers were killed. okay, that's a recap of your top headlines coming up next is inside story. ah ah, up close, but not close enough for activists. the un human rights chief is accused of failing press child on alleged atrocity during her thick faith is it shall boshoway is this . she wasn't there to investigate and beijing denies any wrong doing. so did the trip have any purpose? this is inside ah

clone, welcome to the program on can vanelle. michelle boshoway has been denounced by activists in her field soft the 1st trip to china by a un human rights chief in 17 years. but she lays tightly controlled visit, took her to cynthia region, where the u. s. is labeled the detention of week of muslims and other minorities. as genocide, she admitted being unable to assess the scale of any human rights abuses. but said she, disgusted with officials, china denies committing any crimes. they had set up training centers and jeans, young, not detention camps. this was not an investigation official. this is by commission and are by nature high profile, as he did not conducive the kind of detail methodology. because if they were investigative nature, there was a teacher all direct discussions with china,

small senior leave those on to to listen to each other. great concern to explore and the way from a regular meaningful interactions in the future or human rights wants executive director kenneth ross describes himself as proudly sanctioned by a chinese government. he posted his assessment of postulates trip on twitter, said the un rights chief seems to believe she is. so this way says that her quiet back room conversation will convince paging to ease its repression. beijing will gladly talk private me until she is blue in the face. it will respond only to public pressure. china though, says the trip, delivered concrete results and dismissed criticism by those they say make up lies about sions, young under the guise of human rights. to 13 the allies in recent years has been a tendency of politicizing and instrumental isaac, the un human rights council,

and other multi lateral human rights institutions. lafitte, china has made it very clear that some western countries while having no self reflection on their own notorious misdeeds, yet driven by political motives, abuse multilateral human rights platforms to spread rumors and lies using human rights to interfere in others domestic affairs and recklessly attacking and smearing others, turning multilateral human rights institutions into arenas of naming and shaming and block confrontation. these behaviors have gravely poisoned the atmosphere of the international human rights corporation and must be taken seriously thoughtful. ah, well let's bring in her guests from washington, d. c. rochelle above the executive director of campaign for week is in beijing as i know pagan nursing international fellow at the time institute who specializes in china affairs. and sophie richardson is the china director at human rights watch and joins us also from washington. very one,

welcome to you all. thanks for joining us here on inside story. i'd like to start with you are russian abbas art because as well as being the executive director of campaign for week is you also have family members who have gone missing or been detained. including your sister, i just wanna start by asking you to tell us what, what happened to your sister. what do you know? thank you so much jim for giving you this opportunity in september to 1000. each in i participated on the panel in the one of the think tanks in washington dc, the hudson institute yoga and i spoke against china as down state policies. and while outlining the faith of my in laws which my husband's entire family missy, my parents in law, in their seventy's and 3 of my husband says, there has done their husbands and brother and his wife and 14 of my husband's nieces and nephews. all went missing 10 a summer of 2017 but just 6 days after that panel. after i

expose china's day and cited policies, my own sister dr. gl shannon, but she was taken by the chinese government as we poly ation for my advocacy. she is a medical doctor, retired medical doctor, she retired that early age due to health reasons, from practicing medicine in 2 weeks from now. she will be 60 years old, but i have no idea where she is being held at. i don't know if she is still alive, not only she is being taken as a hostage as a replacement for my activism abroad, but also she is being charged harshly at the beginning when i was well cool about my sister's case and raised her case in media the chinese state on me, the, at the china global highest network accused me for stealing someone else's phone

book and spreading lies about my missing sister. dan. we learned on christmas day in 2020, that my sister that, that will show up us was sentenced to 20 years in prison. mother terrorism late charges. and i know there has been kind or they had on political per said. there has been confirmation. i know from beijing about her detention and thank you for sharing that with us as sophie richardson, i'd like to cross over to you just to give our view as a i sort of wider perspective on everything that's happening in jude chang. what do we actually know is happening there? what has been proven without a shadow of a doubt on the scale of what is happening in engine refers thanks for having me. here a torch has been documenting serious chinese government human rights violations in that region since 1997. but in the last 5 years,

we have had to focus on the authorities misuse. it's, it's, it's overreach of using the pretext to terrorism to arbitrarily detain upwards of a 1000000 people wholly outside of any sort of legal proceedings and truly on the basis of their ethnicity and their religion. you've documented torture. we've documented family separations, cultural persecution enforce disappearances and you do rise to the level of crimes against humanity. and it is imperative that the international human rights system, particularly in the form of un human rights and mechanisms respond to this, not as the un high commissioner has offered through a working group, but rather through an actual credible investigation with a view towards accountability proceeding must be very clear because any other

government in the world with committing human rights abuses of this scope and this scale, we will be well underway with that project. but because the chinese government has power in the international system and particularly in the u. n, we are not any closer to rashawn sister being free, and that's not. we will be talking about michelle bush lays trip in a moment. the 1st i'd like to cross over to io tongan. so china says that these are camps or re education camps. what does that mean? what does the chinese narrative hear? chinese narrative is that there were a series of incidences between basically we're talking hahn's not all the agenda. and there was an incident where han chinese were slaughtered on the subway station downtown by a group of weaker terrors. and they decided that they needed to take things in

order. what they decided was that like in every other part of china, weavers needed to understand chinese and you to be mainstream. they needed to have and educate many families. they have multiple wives, multiple children, which was, you know, useful when you are in agriculture, but a lot of these areas do them our culture. and unfortunately, what happens is when you have a lot of children and there's only so much land, the ability to support those children goes down as you go down generations. so there was this fear, and that was founded in this kind of radical elements that were saying that they wanted and independent. she and john that were joining terrorist organizations and also struggles in the middle east that they did not want that in china. so they said education is key and we have to make sure this the chinese so that they are, they can are portable, they can, they are not restrict addition drawn where they can speak a local dialect,

they really need to, to be mainstream. so this is what china thought was the answer, mr tongue in the international community. and it's been documented by various human rights groups. pretty obvious, according to all of those reports that these are in fact not re education camps, but there are some serious human rights abuses happening in those camps. and we've heard, you know, people just disappearing. the families don't know where they are. so what has been, china is response to that. well, you know, you, you mentioned that can do. this has been established. quite frankly, if you start looking at all the paperwork that's been put together and i have no doubt that human rights watches are collecting data from different sources. some certainly don't have people on the ground there, but you know, it all comes back to the gentleman named a trends in somebody who is thoroughly anti. he's a born again christian. he believes not a big fan of women's rights police and corporal punishment. it's strange that he

would adopt muslims, as he believes under his own, very extreme brand of christianity that they're all going to hell. but i mean, he merges 2018 as an expert, and i'm sure john matters and it's through him that you hear all these allegations on. it puts out as there is a 1000000 we years in concentration camps, how we did this interview with 8 people. and based on those 8 people who extract laden decided, there was a 1000000, decided that he was also the source that said that all women were being reproductive rights are being terminated forcefully against their wealth. he also was the one who said that she and john cotton was being harvested by this 1000000 person group of people he said were in detention. so it's surprisingly non surprising, i should say, just prior to michelle actually visit, he says he has a treasure trove of documents and pictures,

showing that there are active computers going on. in general. it's strange in terms the timing is also strength of boy bobby jamestown foundation, which was founded to by the cia to help soviet emigres find a voice and a job in united states. so, you know, if i do find you there, because without having buses and all the program to defend himself, i should just add that he has said that there is a propaganda smear campaign against him and his, his research. but as i said, when we don't have him on the program, he had to, to defend himself. that has, of course, been a lot of other researched on beyond what mr. ends has, has started and which has been built upon that i want to come back. you name back to you, can you specify that? well, why don't we? why don't we cross? why don't you show me? where are you sure? sure. why don't we cross back all this when we go back to human rights?

yeah, let's go back to human rights watch sophie richardson. if you can tell us a little bit more about the irrefutable evidence. well, i think we can go on for sometime about the week or as we have interviewed over the last 25 years. and particularly the hundreds including count survivors. in the recent past, i find some of these comments a little bit bizarre at best. i also want to point out on the topic of reeducation camps and thinking especially people like dr. go off, were the very well known leader economists your home 20 who is a scholar. you know, i don't think the doctors and lawyers need reeducation. let's be very clear about what we have documented based on the survivor testimony has happened in these camps . torture, denial of food and medical treatment,

sexual violence, forced study. oh, she didn't think thought and renunciation of faith and culture. persecution for using the language, forcing older people to study manner and not use weaker. so let's, let's take the loss off this term. re education. this is torture, and these are crimes against humanity. we have documented it directly from the people who actually had experienced it. there is irrefutable evidence. i think maybe we can point, particularly in this discussion to the chinese government documents that have week over the last several years showing other things, the intent to arbitrarily detain people in large scale and particularly with you towards essentially eradicating weaker than other target communities, distinct identities different crimes against you. hire

a serious response as we see in other parts of the world. i thank you for that, mr. you know what a crossover tuition a boss? because the purpose of this program we want to get on to is talking about the un efforts in china on the un. human rights commission is trip to china were shot, abbas. what are your thoughts on michelle bush lays going to china? was it a mistake? as, as the u. s. contends, it is a mistake, and we have been asking her to meet with us as the victims, families, and meet with the former inmates who are in the camps before. but the she refused meeting was us. and with her statement yesterday, at the press conference, it's still not what she said as a collie, and as say, a sister of a victim innocent victim being detained. i am offended. we are hurt as the warriors, beyond the disappointment. what the ashley did is an abandonment of her obligation. it's an insult to the camp victims and millions of innocent,

rigorous were missing and the suffering. and there being sent the mother of slavery and also it's the betrayal of the founding principles of the united nations and the values that she is commanded with upholding. so, and it's a perfect example of the united nation and her office and, and mission and michelle bash lay voluntarily giving up the rights to defend freedom and democracy. so we are calling for her resignation immediately. ok. she mimic tcp is talking points like anti terrorism. and her narrative basically legitimized the genocide perpetrated against that wiggers and her so called prison visit is a uh potemkin stylish sham. and there is overwhelming proof of what's happening as sophie just the said,

with eye witness testimonies and the former victims. and also document after document of the chinese garments only data. and it's showing the p c r. as in 10 people, you probably got china's intent for the genocide and her comments. yes. dacy and custom made with the people's republic of china propaganda machine. okay. i'd like to, i'd like to, i'd like to cross out the back to on a tongue and just to talk a little bit more about michelle bus, let's visit. how do you think china will be? will be viewing this visit? is this a success for them? i don't know that it's a success. i mean basically they avoid the lynching that rose being referred to by or yes, i mean that, that, that's always good. i mean, we do. there is a lot of anecdotal testimony by people who are seeking asylum and other countries. they can't exactly say their life back home. it's wonderful. they,

they want to put the best loss on it. they can, as they're looking to get to go somewhere else. so what you have here is she's, i guess, the premises that she somehow and leave with the chinese government. i don't think anybody who knows her or as a head of state who seeing her and action would believe that. but you know, this is an example of somebody who's trying to start a dialogue and then you have these range groups on the side, demanding that she can down and just wholeheartedly endorse their particular views . sophie richardson, michelle gosh, i attitude seems to be that any interaction with the chinese government is better than no interaction. and that, that might pave the way for discussions around human rights policies or what's your, what, what's your take on that? do you, do you think there's any reasoning there for a long time? the reasoning has been daughters with the chinese government but with others. but

there has to be some degree of engagement in order to push for any sort of improvement in the pure abstract. the idea of establishing working groups or dialogues would be fine if there's 2 part answer here. yes, 25 years of those kinds of exercises between various governments, un agencies and others with the chinese government in order to try to improve human rights. have actually your results, they didn't, what they did was gave the chinese government a very easy diplomatic box to check that assured those authorities that they would not be held accountable for human rights violations. and i think that's part of what has, at least the political matter paved the way for the thinking that we can see in the government. documents that the chinese government met, atrocity crimes and expect to get away with it. so to how those kinds of conversations now for those to be the outcome. so outcomes of this without also

using the important component of an actual investigation based on ample evidence. some of bmo theory of human rights crimes committed by chinese authorities against leaders and others across the country would be an enormous mistake. this is precisely the formula that the very chinese officials who are responsible for what they want to not be held accountable. and that is what bash lake cannot be allowed to let happen. okay. not a bus for those left behind. those weak is who are still engines, young. what is life like they are now how much the valence is there or how people feeling? the chinese government basically criminalized islam and the it's used as a rep and against the instant people they are being treated not just as

a secondary citizens and they have absolutely no any kind of basic survival rights . but they are facing active for speech genocide. we just had thousands of pictures, documents of chinese government's own data showing how ridiculous china's all the claims when they are saying that. 8 those are so called training centers and the for the national security issue. there are faces after phases of young children like 1415 years old teenagers, 73 years old, grandma 60 some years old, 70 some years old. people. what kind of national tread, somebody like that all the grandma's grand bus brought to a country like china. so basically, what did the weaker people are leaving? is a bar so liable they are fighting for survival. and yeah,

what that actually did is legitimizing the chinese government genocide. and it's going to make less life how they're, what she did is the same as going to nazi germany do. during the early forty's and repeating what hitler was saying about the jewish people in europe, so she should be ashamed of herself and resign immediately if she had a little bit of humanity left in her heart. i know tank and what do you make of the international response to china and to these allegations of what's happening in town? well, in the international response has been mostly on the us side, which is a desire. obviously, sean, her groups are saying this are joining in the course by human rights watch. but you know, it's, it's a little bit of a stretch. you have to believe that china is an uncaring country. that doesn't do anything for its people when it's

a fact that one of the few nations rasdelle something about poverty has provided upward mobility has provided resources, social services to its people. one of the greatest economic stories out there. so this beating the drum that somehow chinese people are repressed and unhappy. they might be under covered restrictions right now. but, you know, the fact is that that's not true. and i think anyone who comes there i have been in syndrome last summer. i did not see people crying and being repressed. i made it a point of getting out and going off on my own so that i was not being monitored. so i could see the situation. i saw none of it, in fact, in cash or i couldn't find in a lease, although there are many more cameras or before i was there in 2015. and the hotel where i stayed was bombed about less than

a week after i left. at that time there were armed guards, checkpoints, there were armored vehicles, people with machine guns, but none of that was there when i went back last summer and quite frankly, the people had changed much more middle class and much more concerned about getting their kids in college i visited maternity hospital, i wanted to see what was going on there and i can tell you that no, i was telling them to not have babies with families. we weren't introduced. we literally went up to on and just said, hey, can we talk to you? and very clear to me, at least on an anecdotal basis, that there is no repression going on there. but i know that sort of ability to operate independently. it's been very difficult for international observers. what would be researches and we're going to leave it there for time. thanks very much for your time. shawn about sign hanging and sophie richardson and thank you for

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