the city will eventually collapse, but people here hope their city traditions and culture will continue to live on. now, like trina al jazeera, the world's most famous painting has been sneered with cream and an apparent climate protest. of visitors to paris is lou for museum, watched and filmed the incident. the cream was sprayed on protective cloth and didn't damage the vin. she's masterpiece. will the vandal told onlookers that people are destroying the earth? ah, i thank you through some of the headlines here now just here. now china says it's agreed to work more closely with fiji as far as this one. gig continues a diplomatic tour across the pacific, but a trade in the secures the agreement with either nations has been shelved

palestinian prime minister mohammed city as described violence in occupied the serious them as aggression. the cross or red line. tens of thousands of flag waving out for nationalist israeli that marched through the most and quarter of the old city on sunday. and the french foreign minister has visited the ukrainian town of boucher where mass graves were discovered. russian troops have been accused of committing war crimes there. though, the headline news continues here now just off the inside story. but before that we leave you with memories of shutting out block, lay the voice of palestine. i'll just here a media network continues to demand a rapid independent and transparent investigation into her killing the no, no, no, no no, no, no, no, no,

no, this is i don't need to be here with the mac and i'm just gonna put them to me. i can just get a message. can you open that at the home and the yah today and we're going to be will be set as well. the people could send me a lot of them. a lot of people give me one. i know. i mean, i mean me shooting them off and just

ah ah, up close, but not close enough for activists. the un human rights chief is accused of failing to press charges on alleged atrocity during her 5th visit. i shall boshoway as this . she was in bed to investigate, and beijing denies any wrong doing. so did the trip have any purpose? this is inside. ah.

hello, welcome to the program. i'm kim vanelle. michelle boshoway has been denounced by activists in her field soft, the 1st trip to china by a un human rights chief in 17 years. ashley's tightly controlled visit took her to cynthia region, where the u. s. is labeled the detention of weak muslims and other minorities. as genocide, she admitted being unable to assess the scale of any human rights abuses. but said she disgusted with officials, china denies committing any crimes saying had set up training centers in jeans, young, not detention camps. this was not an investigation official, this is by commission and are by nature high profile, as he did not conducive the kind of detail methodology. because if they were investigative nature, there was a potential direct discussion with china senior leave those on what to listen to each other. great concern to explore and the way from

a regular meaningful interactions in the future or human rights wants executive director. kenneth ross describes himself as proudly sanctioned by time his government. he posted his assessment of postulates, trip on twitter, said the un writes chief seems to believe she is so this way says that her quiet back room conversation will convince paging to ease its repression. beijing will gladly talk private me until she is blue in the face. it will respond only to public pressure. china though, says the trip, delivered concrete results and dismissed criticism by those they say make up lies about gender young under the guise of human rights to the genie allies in recent years has been a tendency of politicizing and instrumental lising. the un human rights council. and other multilateral human rights institutions. china has made it very clear that some western countries while having no self reflection on their own notorious misdeeds, yet driven by political motives,

abuse multilateral human rights platforms to spread rumors and lies using human rights to interfere and others, domestic affairs, and recklessly attacking and smearing others turning multilateral human rights institutions into arenas of naming and shaming and block confrontation. these behaviors have gravely poisoned the atmosphere of the international human rights cooperation and must be taken seriously thoughtful. ah, why, let's bring an, i guess from washington d. c. rouge on above the executive director of campaign for week is in beijing is on our tongue in the senior international fellow at the titans to, to, to specializes in china affairs. and sophie richardson is the china director at human rights watch and join us also from washington. very well, welcome to you all. thanks for joining us here on inside story. i'd like to not would you rashana boss because as well as being the executive director of campaign for week is you also have family members who have gone missing or been detained,

including your sister. i just want to start by asking you to tell us what, what happened to your sister. what do you know? thank you so much, jim for giving us the opportunity. in september 2018. i participated on the panel in one of the think tanks in washington, d. c. the hudson institute and i spoke against china policies while outlining the faith of my in laws which my husband in i a family my parents in law, in the seventy's and 3 off my husband's sisters and their husbands and brother and his wife and 14 of my husband's nieces and nephews all went missing 10 a summer of 2017. but just 6 days after that panel, after i expose china's day and cited policies, my own sister dr. gl shannon,

but she was taken by the chinese government as we collision for my advocacy. and she is a medical doctor, retired medical doctor, she retired that early age due to health reasons, from practicing medicine in 2 weeks from now she will be 60 years old, but i have no idea where she is being held at. i don't know if she is still alive, not only she is being taken as a hostage as a replacement for my activism abroad, but also she is being charged harshly at the beginning when i was well color about my sister's case and raised her case in media the chinese state on me, the, at the china global highest network accused me for stealing someone else's phone book and spreading lies about my missing sister. dan. we learned on christmas day

in 2020, that my sister that, that will show up us was sentenced to 20 years in prison. mother terrorism late charges. and i know there has been kind or they had on political per said. there has been confirmation. i know from beijing about her detention and thank you for sharing that with us as sophie richardson, i'd like to cross over to you just to give our view as a i sort of wider perspective on everything that's happening in june chang. what do we actually know is happening there? what has been proven without a shadow of a doubt on the scale of what is happening in engine refers thanks for having me. she we're a touch has been documenting serious chinese government human rights violations in that region. since 1997, but in the last 5 years, we have had to focus on the authorities misuse. it's, it's, it's overreach of using the pretext to terrorism to

arbitrarily detain upwards of a 1000000 people wholly outside of any sort of legal proceedings and truly on the basis of their ethnicity and their religion. you've documented torture. we've documented family separations, cultural persecution enforce disappearances and you do rise to the level of crimes against humanity. and it is imperative that the international human rights system, particularly in the form of un human rights and mechanisms respond to this, not as the un high commissioner has offered through a working group, but rather through an actual credible investigation with a view towards accountability proceeding must be very clear because any other government in the world with committing human rights abuses of this scope and this scale, we will be well underway with that project. but because the chinese government has

power in the international system and particularly in the u. n, we are not any closer to rashawn sister being free, and that's not. we will be talking about michelle bush lays trip in a moment. the 1st i'd like to cross over to io tongan. so china says that these are camps are re education camps. what does that mean? what is the chinese narrative here? chinese narrative is that there were a series of incidences between basically we're talking hahn's not all the agenda. and there was an incident where a bunch of han chinese were slaughtered on the subway station downtown by a group of weaker terrors. and they decided that they needed to take things in order. what they decided was that like in every other part of china, weavers needed to understand chinese and you to be mainstream. they needed to have

and educate many families. they have multiple wives, multiple children, which was, you know, useful when you are in agriculture, but a lot of these areas do them to our culture. and unfortunately, what happens is when you have a lot of children and there's only so much land, the ability to support those children goes down as you go down generations. so there was this fear, and that was founded in this kind of radical elements that were saying that they wanted and independent. she and john that were joining terrorist organizations and also struggles in the middle east that they did not want that in china. so they said education is key and we have to make sure that the chinese so that they are or they can are portable, they can, they are not restrict addition drawn where they can speak a local dialect, they really need to, to be mainstream. so this is what trying to thought was the answer, mr tongue in the international community. and it's been documented by various human

rights groups. pretty obvious, according to all of those reports that these are in fact not re education camps, but that there are some serious human rights abuses happening in those camps. and as we've heard, you know, people just disappearing. the families don't know where they are. so what has been, china is response to that. well, you know, you, you mentioned that camp to do these. this has been established. quite frankly, if you start looking at all the paperwork that's been put together and i have no doubt that human rights watches are collecting data from different sources. some certainly don't have people on the ground there, but you know, it all comes back to the gentleman named a trends and somebody who is thoroughly anti. he's a born again christian. he believes not a big fan of women's rights. police corporal punishment. it's strange that he would adopt muslims, as he believes under his own, very extreme brand of christianity that they're all going to hell. but i mean,

he merges 2018 as an expert, and i'm sure john matters and it's through him that you hear all these allegations on puts out there is a 1000000 we years in concentration camps. how we did this, interviewed 8 people. and based on those 8 people who extract laden decided, there was a 1000000, decided that he was also the source that said that all women were being reproductive rights are being terminated forcefully against their wealth. he also was the one who said that she and john cotton was being harvested by this 1000000 person group of people he said were in detention. so, and it's, and surprisingly non, surprisingly, i should say, just prior to michelle actually visit. he says he has a treasure trove of documents and pictures, showing that there are active uses going on. and it's strange in terms of the timing is also strengths. that he's a boy, bobby jamestown foundation,

which was founded to by, by to cia to help soviet emigres find a voice and a job in united states. so, you know, if i do find you there, because without having mrs and all the program to defend himself, i should just add that he has said that there is a propaganda smear campaign against him and, and his, his research. but as i said, when we don't have him on the program, he had to, to defend himself. there has of course, been a lot of other researched on beyond what mr. ends has, has started and which has been built upon that i want to come back. you name, you, can you specify that? well, why don't we, why don't we cross? why don't you show me? where are you? sure. sure. why don't we cross back all this when we go back to human rights? yeah, let's go back to human rights watch sophie richardson. if you can tell us a little bit more about the irrefutable evidence. well, i think we can go on for sometime about the week or as we have interviewed over the

last 25 years. and particularly the hundreds including count survivors. in the recent past, i find some of these comments a little bit bizarre at best. i also want to point out on the topic of reeducation camps and thinking, especially people like dr. go off, were the very well known weaker economists, your home 20, who is a scholar. you know, i don't think the doctors and lawyers need reeducation. let's be very clear about what we have documented based on victim survivor testimony has happened in these camps. torture, denial of food and medical treatment, sexual violence, forced study. she didn't take part and renunciation of faith and culture, persecution for using the language,

forcing older people to study manner and not weaker. so let's, let's take the loss of this term. re education. this is torture, and these are crimes against humanity. we have documented it directly from the people who actually had experienced it. there is irrefutable evidence. i think maybe we can point, particularly in this discussion to the chinese government documents that have week over the last several years showing other things, the intent to arbitrarily detain people in large scale and particularly with you towards essentially eradicating weaker than other target communities, distinct identities different crimes against you. hire a serious response as we see in other parts of the world. i thank you for that message. you said i want to cross over to a boss because the purpose of this program we want to get on to is talking about

the un efforts in china on the un. human rights commission is trip to china were shot abbas. what are your thoughts on michelle bush lays going to china? was it a mistake? as, as the u. s. contends it is a mistake, and we have been asking her to meet with us as the victims, families and meet with the former inmates who are in the camps before but the she refused the meeting was us. and with her statement yesterday, at the press conference, it's still not what she said. there's a collie. and as say, a sister of a victim innocent victim being detained, i am offended. we are hurt. as the warriors, beyond the disappointment, what the ashley did is an abandonment of her obligation. it's an insult to the camp victims and millions of innocent, rigorous were missing and the suffering. and there being sent the mother in slavery

and also it's a betrayal of the founding principles of the united nations and the values that she is commanded with upholding. so, and it's a perfect example of the united nation and her office and, and mission and michelle bash lay voluntarily giving up the rights to defend freedom and democracy. so we are calling for her resignation immediately. ok. she mimic tcp is talking points like anti terrorism. and the her narrative basically legitimized the genocide perpetrated against that wiggers and her so called prison visit is a, are potemkin style, a sham. and there is overwhelming proof of what's happening as sophie, just the said, with eye witness testimonies and the former victims. and also document after document of the chinese garments only data. and it's showing the p c

r. as in 10 people, you probably got try not intend for the genocide and her comments. yes. dacy and custom made with the people's republic of china propaganda machine. okay. i'd like to, i'd like to, i'd like to cross out the back to on a tongue and just to talk a little bit more about michelle, but let's visit, how do you think china will be? will be viewing this visit? is this a success for them? i don't know that it's a success. i mean basically they avoid the lynching that rose being referred to by rashawn. yes, i mean that, that that's always good. i mean, we do. there is a lot of anecdotal testimony by people who are seeking asylum and other countries. they can't exactly say their life back home. it's wonderful. they, they want to put the best loss on it. they can, as they're looking to get to go somewhere else. so what you have here is she's,

i guess, the premises that she's somehow and leave with the chinese government. i don't think anybody who knows her or as a head of state who seeing her and action would believe that. but you know, this is an example of somebody who is trying to start a dialogue and then you have these strange groups on the side demanding that she can down and just wholeheartedly endorse their particular views. sophie richardson, michelle gosh, i attitude seems to be that any interaction with the chinese government is better than no interaction. and that, that might pave the way for discussions around human rights policies or what's your, what, what's your take on that? do you, do you think there's any reasoning there for a long time? the reasoning has been daughters with the chinese government but with others. but there has to be some degree of engagement in order to push for any sort of improvement in the pure abstract. the idea of establishing working groups or

dialogues would be fine if there's 2 part answer here. yes, 25 years of those kinds of exercises between various governments, un agencies and others with the chinese government in order to try to improve human rights. have actually your results, they didn't, what they did was gave the chinese government a very easy diplomatic box to check that assured those authorities that they would not be held accountable for human rights violations. but i think that's part of what has, at least of the political matter paved the way for the thinking that we can see in the government. documents that the chinese government met, atrocity crimes and expect to get away with it. so to how those kinds of conversations now for those to be the outcome. so outcomes of this without also using the important component of an actual investigation based

on ample evidence. someone be most theory of human rights crimes committed by chinese authorities against leaders and others across the country would be an enormous mistake. this is precisely the formula that the very chinese officials who are responsible for what they want to not be held accountable. and that is what bass lake cannot be allowed to let happen. okay. not a bus for those left behind. those weak is who are still engine young. what is life like they are now? how much surveillance is there or how people feeling? the chinese government basically criminalized islam and the it's used as a rep and against the innocent people. they are being treated not just as a secondary citizens and they have absolutely no any kinds of basic survival rights . but they are facing active for speech genocide. we just had thousands of

pictures, documents of chinese government's own data showing how ridiculous changes all the claims when they are saying that. 8 those are so called training centers and the for the national security issue. there are faces after phases of young children like 1415 years old teenagers, 73 years old, grandma 60 some years old, 70 some years old. people. what kind of national tread, somebody like that all the grandma's grand bus brought to a country like china. so basically, what did the weaker people are leaving? is a bar so liable they are fighting for survival. and yeah, what that actually did is legitimizing the chinese government genocide, and it's going to make less life held there. what she did is the same that's going

to nazi germany do during the early forty's and repeating what hitler was saying about the jewish people in europe. so she should be ashamed of herself and resign immediately if she had a little bit of humanity left in her heart. i know tank. and what do you make of the international response to china and to these allegations of what's happening in town? well, in the international response has been mostly on the us side, which is a desire obviously shown her groups are saying this are joining in the course by human rights watch. but, you know, it's, it's a little bit of a stretch. you have to believe that china is an uncaring country. that doesn't do anything for its people when it's a fact that one of the few nations rasdelle something about poverty has provided upward mobility has provided resources,

social services to its people. one of the greatest economic stories out there. so this beating the drum that somehow chinese people are repressed and unhappy. they might be under covered restrictions right now. but, you know, the fact is that, that's not true. and i think anyone who comes there i have been in syndrome last summer. i did not see people crying and being repressed. i made it a point of getting out and going off on my own so that i was not being monitored. so i could see the situation, i saw none of it, in fact, in cash or i couldn't find in a lease, although there are many more cameras or before i was there in 2015. and the hotel where i stayed was bombed about less than a week after i left. at that time there were armed guards, checkpoints, there were armored vehicles, people with machine guns. but none of that was there when i went back last summer.

and quite frankly, the people had changed much more middle class and much more concerned about getting their kids in college. i visited maternity hospital. i wanted to see what was going on there. and i can tell you that no, i was telling them to not have babies with families. we weren't introduced, we literally went up to on and just said, hey, can we talk to you and very clear to me at least on an anecdotal basis, that there is no repression going on there. but i know that sort of ability to operate independently. it's been very difficult for international observers. what would be researches i'm we're going to leave it there for time. thanks very much for your time. shawn about sign hanging and sophie richardson and thank you for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website, and is there a dot com and for the discussion, go to facebook page since facebook dot com forward slash ha inside story,

you can also join the conversation on twitter. handle is at a great inside story. for me, kim vanelle and the whole team here, info. i found out the ah a jew on al jazeera as watches invasion is to play the coaches the 100 day moving. we bring you the latest from on the ground and the wars global employer. and you 3 part series describes the struggle for the return of african art, plundered by colonialism and still housed in europe in museums. today. the g 7 m.

nato hold key summits with the water ukraine on the growing global food and the cost of living crises. this much to discuss as the influence of far right. politics grows. the big picture, examines francis struggle to live up to itself were claimed. ideals of liberty, equality and fraternity. the men's world helped qualifies. i'm male, biting opportunity for countries to secure their support for caught our 2020 to june on al jazeera i was raised in france. these are my grandparents. these are my parents. and this is mean fighting both isis and a, the 2nd of a 2 part epic tale of a remarkable family. the father, the son and the g. hi, part team on al jazeera. how and why did it become so obsessed?

with this law, we were giving them a tool to hold corrupt individuals and human rights abusers accountable. they're going to rip this deal apart if they take the white house of 2025. what is the world hearing what we're talking about by american today? we take on us politics and society. that's the bottom line. ah hello, i'm adrian said again in doha with a summary of the news on al jazeera. china says that it's agreed to work more closely with fiji on a number of fronts. as foreign minister wang ye continues his diplomatic tor, across the pacific ocean. but a trade and security agreement with either nations has been shelved. the tour has been added to has added rather to you as an australian concern about china's regional influence. but fuji's prime minister says there's nothing to worry about.