as it, as it were, one side says we don't like what you're doing and the other side says, well, that's fine, we're going to carry on doing it. and it seems as though they're pushing road blocks in the way to any sort of resolution of this, which might see iran going back into the j. c. p. a. so you have as it were, mistrust on both sides. it seems indeed it does. dominic, thanks very much, we've just been listening to the heads of the international atomic energy agency that say that 27 cameras in iran from today that monitor the nuclear sites will be removed as of today the i a chief i mr. grossey saying that the pitcher with iran is not a very nice one. but his obligation, he says, is to persevere. ah no without as there are, these are the top stories nice and ukrainian city of very dannetta is the target of

heavy shelling, as it is now, mostly under control of russian forces, but ukrainian troops fighting back from the outskirts. the mayor says it is now impossible to move any civilians out new cranes, presidents as want of dire consequences for global food supplies. if russia doesn't end its blockade of ports, char stratford has more from bro, very on the outskirts of kids. situation here dire indeed. we are on a farm, northeast of the capital city up until or a few weeks ago. russian forces were positioned in areas around these fields. the week that you see in this field was actually planted before the war started. and bear in mind that the farm, like many farms in this area, whenever silos are already full from last year's harvest. this week that you see here is going to be harvested in the next few weeks. farmers here have basically

got no arcs is whatsoever they are very concerned indeed because they're silos, as i say, are full. they have no idea what they're going to do with crops like this. in the next few weeks, somali present hassan shake mohammed has been inaugurated as a ceremony in mogadishu, mohammed made history last month by becoming the 1st president to be elected twice . took his present, reject type. adon has attended military exercises and is mere province girls of the largest joint exercise ever held in the region. grace has criticized the maneuvers, passing in foreign minister as in the international criminal court at the hague, where he's delivered the findings of an investigation and the killing. a veteran journalist sharina blackly the out 0 correspondent was shot dead by israeli forces . last month was covering raids in jennine in the occupied west bank. the head of the international atomic energy agency says iran plans the disconnect 27th surveillance cameras. monitoring at sites to ron is responding to criticism from

the un watchdog for failing to explain your rainy and particles at some of the sites. those are the headlines. the news continues her on al jazeera, of the inside story to stay with us. ah the king and queen of belgium are in democratic republic of congo to per se if the chance for reconciliation given the scale of atrocities committed on the belgian colonial rule, how much progress can be made. this is inside story. ah

oh, welcome to the program. i'm kim vanelle and legacy of belgian colonialism in central africa and the course of 2 centuries. millions of people are believed to have been killed or mutilated. and what's out one day, democratic republic of congo. the arrival of belgium's royal cobble on their 1st visit to the country is being billed as a way to move forward. but without a long list of historical grievances, any congolese, a skeptical, any real action or accountability can be achieved. you know, i wish that the president takes care of what is important to the con, the lease, instead of making use of expenses by inviting this royal couple. we have important things to settle here, like free education. teachers are not well paid, but the president prefers to invite the belgian king to do what to loot us again. what was it? yes, i am happy with the arrival of the belgians king because he is going to come and

see what they have left us. if the congo has evolved again backwards, it is like a mother who abandoned her children for years, and she comes back to check how the children are living. so let him come what we don't know what he is going to bring us. if it is to destroy us even more, we don't know if the belgian is well aware of the history in what was then the belgian congo in 2002 brussels formerly apologize for its role in the assassination of patrice. remember the conqueror, lita served as the 1st prime minister after independence. sam was an important politician until his assassination. in 1961, belgium is expected to return a members tooth to the family, stolen by a belgian police officer who confessed to participating in the assassination. the atrocities which included forth labor, torture amputations, and rape, began in $1885.00 on the king. leopold the 2nd about 10000000 congo leaves died.

the king's brutal rule was deemed so cruel that 23 years later he was forced to relinquish control to belgium's parliament. the congolese was still unable to own land vote or travel freely before declaring independence and 960 democratic republic of congo had become africa. the richest quality that you said about 70 percent of the world's industrial diamonds. most of the profits, however, went to belgium. brussels has acknowledged some of the abuses carried out during its 75 year role. many argue its public apologies have fallen short. ah, let's bring in our guests in london, jonathan offer answer, publisher of africa briefing and said pan african news magazine in brussels, theodore tre. phone a researcher at the well museum for central africa and author of the book, congo, masquerade also in london. phil clark, professor of international politics at so last university of london,

a very warm welcome to you all. thank you. thank you for joining us on inside story . i'd like to begin with you phil clark, if i may, returning the tooth of the 1st congolese prime minister. i mean, the whole thing just speaks to the brutality of all belgian rule. i guess colonialism at that time. what does it return mean? what does it signify? i think the return of members to really is a reminder of just how much belgium and particularly that the belgium monarchy to build it, belgium leadership, sol from conger are including the physical remains of someone is politically important as, as patrice lombardi. so it's a reminder that this wasn't just about the massive theft of physical goods, the looting of all congress wells, or it was also that the best of human lives. and, and of course, this is also reminder of the importance of luma, english history or

a sense of what was last this described missed opportunity in congress politics. this revolutionary leader who was assassinated when the complicity of the belgium regime sort of the return of his tooth is enormously up, politically relevant and, and something that has resonated down through the decades about to pass over to jonathan. off i answer, what's your take on the significance of this and, and talk to me a little bit more if you can about your sort of thoughts on patrice, the mom. but why he the scene is such a such a threat by, by the west. if still need to reach out to you, sam is to be near the symbolic. ok, i'm in. without it he sucked us was horrible. to have it set up. i was, he said, a good any shambles. ha. maybe try to repair repair oh mix on our manse

for the m. agree, just atrocities mich adult. during the reno fed akimbo poll. the 2nd who i may use a go as christoph hibler. right. and a little bit about him in the, in the, in the gutted media, immediate pasco, nephew in africa. i mean, we are in chrome, i, again, i, we are the other reddick out, the it is. and he's the west. so as a free and do for get out there, the cold war was also run in the cooler between the west and distribute it was running short every at each side was jostling for influence on the continent. and when he comes to a co go, a man, netflix, google, your google, as it was known in those days, and it had massive immune resources asked we'd, we'd know today. ok, so the word feel was not to have no lumen by what are going to carla will buy, was

a city if somebody who wanted to. i said it could go to dependence the desk pullets car, but i think it's economic independence and he feared me that it was shipped a was shipped to the east. so what you have to do was to eliminate it at a one by and what about loss and arm it's muscle restored? it wasn't that last doctoral. m m m m coco, but the whole of africa as well. fatal tough on there been various statements and apologies to some extent by the belgians over the years. have any of them taken in the full extent of, of the atrocities that were committed to have any of them taken full responsibility? can that be done? this is a big difference between french and english, about the word that you used, which is apologies. and that's the been debate today. is king philippe going to

express once again he regrets? why is he going to express an apology? because if he expresses an apology, that could result in belgium having to make financial restitution to panel. and that's, that's something that we don't know what's going to happen. but the king's visit is certainly not unanimously welcomed as an incognito or embellish and the right wing party b. n. b. a in belgium is opposed to the king's visit to come out. and shirley opposed to making any apologies because that could have a financial implications of adoption actually or not. we have to realize that distribution is taking place in a very, very important context of belgium politics and in congress, east politics. it's the same time. this is a diplomatic convergence. it's a major accomplishment for president jesse candy. and as

a reminder to your audience, jessy, katy was not that elected president. she became president to deal making with that which can be like another another actress, 3 years ago. and the same thing with, with philip, now there's a lot of divergence in belgium about whether or not he should be the travel to congo in what's the whole nature of this big debate, which is restitution. there was a mask that was just unveiled in the the yeah, history you see, and in contrast that came from converge museum. and you know, this thing about restitution is very much a way of clarifying belgium's colonial past. and there's a lot of emotion, a lot of ideology, and we're seeing this not only in belgium, but we're also see in congo. sell her work to our phillips visit is not universally

welcomed. ah, jonathan alphonse, i'd like to come back to you as we talk about in the colonial past. but what are the ongoing impacts of colonialism on democratic republic of congo today? what, what, what is the legacy? how is it continuing to be felt? it is scooter to look at, we see it all google or crushed, much known, even at the kiddo piece in or since independence in that to 16 currently. we see what's good on in the eastern part of the country. i mean, all i mean, you, dick dick give by you for that is all about control of quint gosh, vast dutch rugged resources. ok, and i believe other term, the actors in can go to day, are mere promises to some external forces. what

a coupon control m m m m congress or resources. so the impact and all it's a relative. it's untrue if i can for that is sam is, is sincere. in his approach to m m. coogel, who must go further? i mean, i talk to, i mean, government and always your leaders and get you the brutal republic just to make sure that there is peace in within the whole country. i mean, the israel can go, i mean, is a wish i was bloody always 1 am. and frank going on all, all the other. sure work. therefore you need to do what will happen during the school near church? good, intermediate post independence bureau is sir richard, richard to do that for the so b o, o fell clock human rights watch. i suggested that financial reparations from

belgium, which would essentially be paid by the belgian tax path, would actually be balanced by the economic benefits that's moving, derived from colonialism on which belgium continues to thrive. how does belgium continue to thrive economically from its exploitation of, of a democratic republic of congo and, and how could belgium take full responsibility? what could that look like? you only have to walk the streets of brussels to see the amount of, well, that belgium derived from congress from the end of the, from the colonial period onwards. and we're talking about the systematic transfer of enormous wealth from one african economy to a european economy. and this is left for the congolese studies are really in a very impoverished position. it really since the end of the colonial period, so that there's no question that belgium, others, congo, an enormous reparations package. and there's

a global picture here as well. we're also seeing germany having to deal with the question of reparations to namibia for the herrera genocide. the british government has had to pay reparations to the victims of mal atrocities in kenya. this is what is speaking the belgian government at the moment. i know that there is a zeitgeist around reparations. what belgium is trying to do to certain extent is do and will piece meal response for atrocities in the past that that kind of commission of inquiry into atrocities are committed right across central africa. there is the repatriation of mosques and other autistic artifacts back to countries like the d r c. i think is a whole on the part of the belgian or dorothy that that will be enough to if we have this commission of inquiry and we send a few objects back to congress that will draw a line on the history. that's not the view in congo, that's not the view in the other building colonies in the region like rwanda and

burundi. the view there is out what we want to see something more tangible. we want to see something much more systematic, much more material, much more financial, and it needs to be on a scale that is comparable to the wealth that belgium stole from these countries in the 1st place, these kind of symbolic, these kind of cosmetic responses, simply one target jonathan, i found i can see you shaking your head there was something you want to to, to add. yes, i agree. i absolutely agree. water is up with what it says. look, i said, yeah, i mean like i said, they are disputed at the return of the term artifact, say to whatever the also somebody needed to go further. i would measure the word british to ship and at was o'clock mission their, their, their repairs internet in namibia from gemini as well. so yes. beg yeah. but jumps economy literally was built on display of off by so under this partition of the congo. so if the king has dim your right expression,

gretsch bye for the short of all, we'll get that you more good is to filter and see how we can offer economic riches to ship to the country countries. did they do a trip on? no, i said that after colonialism ended in the i see it was about reconstituting the colonial space that belgium and france can you kind of talk me through that o, z. first of all, i'd like to clarify. i'd like to follow up on what my practice is just menchie. and that is that we have to bear in mind that belgium today is one of the countries in the world with a very, very high growth rate, very high savings rate, very high human development. convex congo, on the other hand, is usually pretty much on the bottom at the bottom of the barrel. so there's

a tremendous dispatch there. the. this fact however, needs to be nuanced by current dynamics in congos relations with other countries. belgium is a very, very small commercial partner of the d. c today compared to china in the south africa. lots of other partners have really taken the place of belgium in commercial exchanges. congo is an important part of the belgium belgian psyche. if, if the belgians in important countries, they associate that importance with the more that they had in this amazing, the rich and culturally diverse country that many, many belgians were familiar with. you know, everyone. so i'm american, i've lived in belgium for many years. i cannot go to any kind of event when i

meet someone that said, or you know what, my uncle was in congo. my father was an administrator and you know, there's a very, very deep social connection between belgium and collin, this is so the beginning of the response to your question about recall a nice space because after independence there was, there was a new scramble for character in africa no, we're really in the, in the context of cold war politics where you had a really, really severe, looming crisis between the east in the west. cuban missile crisis knows it was m p l a n n gola had a marxist lin industry across from contrasts in kind of a browser. so you know, when i was a new crucible, how politics could be defined?

and at the same time, belgium, badly needed to keep control primarily of the mining interests it had in catawba. and this is why there was the kind of succession it was the assassination or the mysterious murder of you once again, your secretary, doug hamis cold. so, you know, there was a lot going on and so belgium did have a very, very dubious role. here. of course, they were more agents of the american cia when it comes to moves assassination when it came to the congress, a session. so, you know, belgium, i think, is very much an actor, but also very much a victim of the whole way that i had called what politics unfolded. and they probably didn't think that carefully enough. and this is why we were

countering so many problems. now how to deal with belgium's colonial past, which is creating a lot of emotion, a lot of ideology in belgium today. you know, we've had a number of statues of king leopold removed from the ocean cities. there's a big debate now about renaming streets that were named after receipt, pretty much horrible people that were responsible for all kinds of the trustees. so there's this debate, but then there's also quite a large segment of the belgian population that feels misrepresented because this lobby will say that in 1960, in independence. the belgian congo had the same standard of living as canada in south africa in terms of hospital beds, in terms of primary education in terms of so that the debate in belgium

itself is very, very stratified. that formal belgy lobby of colonial administrators is still clinical. and they're probably looking to visit and i just want to pick up on something that you said a theodore and and pass it over to phil clark. belgian as a victim from from coldwell politics. i mean i haven't heard that before. is that something that is kind of discussed in academic circles when exploring the post colonial legacy? not typically, no, i mean why the belgium tends to be talked about in these devices is firstly in terms of its colonial legacy. so that precedes any of these cold war dynamics that theodore is talking about, that, that, that's where the exploitation begin. so that, that's where the pillaging of kimberly's wealth of begins. but then what we see is

belgium continuing to middle in congress politics, even after the end of colonialism and, and i travel to congo regularly. i was just there 18 months ago. and the perspective amongst many congolese is that belgium influence negative influence in the country continues right up until the present in terms of very old type deals with mining companies, meddling in political affairs, the mistreatment of the congo is diaspora living in belgium today. so really what we're talking about is i story or brought, i'm an equal relations between belgium and congress from the colonial period, through the cold war, all the way up until the present. tough enough, i answer when we talk about reparations and, and sort of reckoning with colonial passed beyond the aussie we've been talking and we mentioned the german government apologizing for the genocide in namibia. how

does belgium compare to other form a colonizing powers in its attempts to apologize to make reparations to, to grapple with its, with its quite violent past? i can give you the, in the, in the, in progress example button. i know the me, user, the atrocities say which adults to their mo, mo, an old fighters in kenya. a year or 2 ago am some of their descendants and some of the survivor in victims and osu. deborah, just go bench in or into high culture at one. so even if the british in or didn't turn directly apologize for the atrocities metal but at our to the moment at least am the are called yet to dish. every in a and a half am i talked to them because im good. okay. so you do not have to am

directly maybe for the guys, but am the, i don't mean in or i put a group. okay. yeah. but if you do apologize, you need to follow it up, right. i think it will be in all and will be that mission of guilt. so good luck with some sort of a recompense reaches teacher composition and that kind of thing. so m dot away, i see that we should be all fatal tough on where we're nearing the end of the program . we've got a minute or so left, but i just want to ask you, is there a shift in the way that former colonial powers are approaching this reckoning with their pastor, approaching how to take responsibility to take accountability? that's an important question, but i would also, i would 1st like to like to clarify that everything about this debate, about belgian relations with congo. when you notice of approximately

1550 percent of the conference population is 16 or 17 years old or younger. so that the vast majority of the lease a very, very far removed from these high level political discussion about diplomatic restitution in apology to let you know, these are people that live in the fend for yourself. economy a live from hand to mouth on a day to day basis. and they probably really not that very concerned about what our, what king philip is going to say in parliament. these are people that are struggling to feed themselves to feed their families. and it's true, their congo has been victimized over many, many years. but this is not, this is not an excuse for our really weakness in the whole panoply development initiatives that is both organized and orchestrated by

congos international partners and by cleavages within the congolese elite themselves that are very, very, very, very clever at keeping society them. stratified so to place blame strictly on one actor, i think would be really doing a disservice to the debate. it's a shared responsibility. thank you very much to all our guests, jonathan on sir theodore telephone and phil clark. and thank you for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website and is there a dot com and further discussion go to our facebook page. that is facebook dot com forward slash ha inside story. you can also join the conversation on twitter. handle is an inside story for me, kim vanelle, and the whole team here in bo, by for, ah,

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and some roots long used by wildlife or migration have been blocked by human settlements. to deal with all these canyon needs more money for conservation. and with a corona virus pandemic keeping many visitors awake revenue from tourism isn't enough . here at the embassy national park, an annual ceremony has been launched the ha parisha than individuals pay $5000.00 yes, dollars to name an elephant. the aim this year is to raise $1000000.00, much of it for conservation initiatives. ah, this is al 0. i'm daddy and abigail with a check on your world headlines. the head of the international atomic energy agency says iran plans to disconnect 27 surveillance cameras monitoring its sites. iran already switched.