to talk to mark that morning, margaret, i was counting on his phone, which is something typically i remember talking to scott and let you know it informed him line. this is how many people we have outside the mags right now. these are the weapons that we're going to have possible. he listed more weapons on that. i just don't recall and gave them a brief but concise escalation, but also fairly, fairly thorough. and i remember distinctly mark not enough. i remember cody finishing explanation and it taking a few seconds for mark to say look we're, i'm of your room and part time it is like are anything else still looking down to this phone and tell it to me and i look to tony and tony said, no, sir, you have any questions?

what are you hearing? and i like the town, you know, 6 or you just told you about what was happening on the day. i know and then he looked up and said, have you talked to the president? and he said yes sir, he's where to go. all right, good. yeah, tony, tony had informed the president. yes. and time said yes. he had so ms. hutchinson, is it your understanding that mister or nato told the president about weapons at the rally on the morning of january 6? that's a mis renata related to me. and here's how you characterize mr. meadows, general response. when people raised concerns about what could happen on january 6 so ahead of time in the day. ready and there were lots of course about how things might go bad on the sex unit potential provide i'm here for. ready saying that here is that mr knows to not share or at least not act on those concerns. did not act on

those concerns. whiskey accurate but other people res, i'm j to him. like the miss exchange you mentioned or not? that's correct. miss hutchinson, we're going to show now an exchange of tax between you and deputy chief of staff or nato. and these text messages were exchanged while you were at the ellipse. i'm in one text you right, but the crowd looks good from this vantage point. as long as we get the shot, he was effing furious. and the text messages also stressed the president trump kept mentioning the o t r and off the record movement. we're going to come back and ask about that in a minute. but could you tell us, 1st of all, who it is in a text who was furious the he and that text that i was referring to was the president. and why was he furious, miss hutchinson?

he was curious because he wanted the arena that we had on the ellipse to be max out a capacity for all attendees. the advanced team had related to him that the mags were free flowing. everybody who wanted to come in had already come in, but he still was angry about the extra space and wanted more people to come in. and did you go to the rally in the presidential motorcade? i was there? yes. in american, and were you back stage? ah, with the president and other members of his staff and family i was and you told us miss hutchinson about particular comments that you heard while you were in the tent area. we are in the off stage and now area has behind the stage. he was very concerned about the shot, meaning the photograph of good guy because the really fe swimming pool one of the

reasons which i previously stated was because he wanted it to be full and for people to not feel excluded because it kind of hard to watch him at the rally and he felt a nightfall for not letting everybody in, but another leading reason might play. the primary reason is because he wanted it full and he was angry that we weren't letting people through the night with weapons . what the secret service team just weapons in our but when we are in the office now it's tend, i was a part of the conversation. i was in the, i was in the vicinity of a conversation where i overheard the president say something to get back to you know, i don't, i think care that they have weapons. they're not here to hurt me. take that i think mags away what my people in the marks the capital from here let the people and take that i think max away just to be clear, miss hutchinson. is it your understanding that the president wanted to take the

mags away and said that the armed individuals were not there to hurt him? that's a fair assessment. the issue wasn't with the amount of space available in the official rally area only. but instead that people did not want to have to go through the mags. let's listen to a portion of what you told us about that. in that particular instance, it wasn't the capacity of our space. it was denied to the people that didn't want to come through and that's what tony hadn't been trying to relate to him that morning. you know, it's not the issue of being counter on the campaign. you have enough space or they don't want to come in right now they, they have what they don't want compensated by the secret service and they're fine on them all. they can see on the mall in there. they want to mark straight to the capitol from them all. the president apparently wanted all attendees inside the official rally space and repeatedly said, quote, they're not here to hurt me. and just to,

to be clear. so he was told again in that conversation or was he told to get in that conversation that people couldn't come to the mags because they had weapons correct. and that people in he, his response was to say they can march for the capitol from it, from the ellipse something good or go take that. i think nice lawyers are not here to hurt me. one of them in my people and they marks the capital after the rallies over they can march from the commercial realist take that away. then they can march the capital such as in what we saw in those clips. replaying were photos provided by the national archives showing the president the off stage tent before his speech on the ellipse. you were in some of those photos as well. and i just want to confirm that that is when you heard the president say, the people with weapons weren't there to hurt him. and then he wanted the secret

service to remove the magnetometers. that's correct. and the photos that you displayed, you're standing towards the front of the tent with the tv is really close to where he would walk out to go on to the stage. did these conversations happened 2 to 3 minutes before you took the stage that morning? let's reflect on that for a moment. president trump was aware that a number of the individuals in the crowd had weapons and were wearing body armor. and here's what president trump instructed the crowd to do. we're going to walked out and i'll be there with you. we're going to walk, so we're going to walk down any one you want. when i think right here, we're going to walk down to the capital. and the crowd, as we know, did proceed to the capital. it soon became apparent to the secret service, including the secret service team in the crowd, along with white house staff,

the security at the capital would not be sufficient. i. and for a, b and c, the survey back there with one of them a, a capital and bodies. and miss hutchinson, when you said they were having trouble stacking bodies, did you mean that law enforcement at the capital needed more people to defend the capital from the rioters? it was becoming clear to us and to the secret service that capital police officers were getting overrun at the security barricades outside of the capital building.

and they were having short, they were short people to defend the building against the rioters. and you mentioned that mr. nato was conveying this to you because he wanted you to tell mr . meadows. so did you, did you tell mr. meadows that people were getting closer to the capital and capital please was having challenge difficulty after i had a conversation with mr. meadows. mr. lou, after i had the conversation with mr. renato i went to have the discussion with mr . meadows. he was in a secure vehicle at the time, making a call so and i had gone over to the car. i went to open the door to let him know and he had immediately shut it. i don't know who he was speaking with. it wasn't something that he regularly did, especially when i would go over to get some information. so i was a bit taken aback, but i didn't think much of it and thinking that us would be able to have the conversation with him a few moments later. and were you able to have that conversation

a few moments later? probably about 20 to 25 minutes later there is another period of between where he shut the door again and then when he finally got out of the vehicle, we have the conversation. but at that point, there was a backlog of information that he should have been made aware of. and so you opened the door to the control car and mr. meadows pulled it shut. that's correct. and he did that 2 times. that's correct. and when you finally were able to give mr. meadows, the information about the violence at the capital, what was his reaction? he almost had a lack of reaction. i remember him saying, all right, something fear fact of how much longer is this the president have left in this speech? again, much of this information about the potential for violence was known or learned

before the onset of the violence early enough for president trump to take steps to prevent it. he could for example, have urged the crowd at the ellipse not to march the capital. he could have condemned the violence immediately once it began or he could have taken multiple other steps. but as we will see to day and in later hearings, president trump had something else in mind. one other question at this point, miss hutchinson, were you aware of concerns that white house council patsy. bologna or eric hirschman had about the language president trump used in his ellipse speech. there were many discussions the morning of the sex about the rhetoric of the speech that day. in my conversations with mister hirschman, he had related that we would be foolish to include language that had been included at the president's request, which had lines along to the effect of fight for

trunk. we're going to march the capital, i'll be there with you. fight for me, fight for what we're doing. fight for the movement on things about vice president at the time to both mr. hershon and white house counsel's office were urging the speech writers to not include that language for legal concerns and also for the op optics of what it could portray the president wanting to do that day. and we just heard the president say that he would be with his supporters as they marched to the capital, even though he did not end up going, he certainly wanted to, ah, some of the question whether president trump genuinely planned to come here to the capital on january 6th, in his book, mark meadows falsely wrote, that after president trump gave his speech on january 6th, he told mister meadows that he was quote, speeding medic speaking metaphorically about the walk to the capital. as you will

see, donald trump was not speaking metaphorically. as we heard earlier, rudy giuliani told miss hutchinson that mister trump planned to travel to the capital on january 6th. i want to pause for just a moment to ask you miss hutchinson to explain some of the terminology you will hear to day. we've heard you used to different terms to describe plans for the president's movement, the capital or anywhere else. one of those is, is scheduled movement and another one is o t r. could you describe for us what each of those mean a scheduled presidential movement is on his official schedule. it's notified the press into a wide range of staff that will be traveling with him. it's known to the public known to the secret service and they're able to coordinate the movement days in advance. and off the record movement is confined to the knowledge of a very, very small group of advisors and staff. typically,

a very small group of staff would travel with him, mostly better just including the national security package. you can pull off took off the record movement together in less than an hour. and it's a way to kind of circumvent having to release it to the price if that's the goal of it, or to not have to have as many security parameters put in place ahead of time to make the move it happen. thank you. and let's turn back now to the president's plans to travel to the capital on january 6th. we know that white house council pat said baloney was concerned about the legal implications of such a trip. and he agreed with the secret service that it shouldn't happen as hutchinson did you have any conversations with pat said bologna about his concerns about the president point of the capital on january 6th. on january 3rd, mister civil only had approached me knowing that mark had raced the prospect of

going up to the capital on january 6. mr. sit baloney. and i had a brief private conversation where he said to me, we need to make sure that this doesn't happen. this would be, oh, legally, a terrible idea for us. we're, we have serious legal concerns. if we go up to the capital that day. and he then urge me to continue relaying that to mr. meadows. because it's my understanding that mr. civil oni thought that mr. matters was indeed pushing this along with the president. and we understand miss edison. you also spoke to mr. sid baloney, on the morning of this 6th, as you were about to go to the rally on the ellipse. and mr. sybil on he said something to you, like make sure the movement to the capitol does not happen. is that correct? that's correct. i saw mr. smith learning right before i walked out on to west exact that morning, and mr. se suboxone said something, 3

a fact of please make sure we don't go up to the capital capacity. keep in touch with me. we're going to get charge of every crime imaginable. if we make that movement happen, and do you remember which crimes mr. cip lunney was concerned with in the days leading up to the sex, we had conversations about potentially obstructing justice or defrauding the electoral coun. let's hear about some of those concerns that you mentioned earlier. and one of your interviews with us having a private conversation pat late in the afternoon, 3rd or 4th. that was concerned, it would look like we were obstructing justice or obstructing electoral college town. i position probably not being very for my legal

terms here. that it with them in here, shutting was happening on capitol hill. and he was also worried that it would look like we were inciting a riot or encouraging arrive on the capital at the capital. in fact, in the days before january 6th and on january 6 itself, president trump expressed to multiple white house aides that he wanted to go to the capitol after his speech. here's what various white house aides had told. the committee about the president's desire to go to the capitol. did the president tell us that he wanted to speak at the capitol? correct? yes. during the me in the dining room to the idea of the president. proceeding a walking to the capital on the 6 after his speech come up, walking to the garden, not driving to the capital, it came on. okay,

how did it come up and what was discussed? you brought it up. you said, i don't want to go down to the gap or what about him marching to the capital and 6? yes. tell us about that. so is kind of a general say a minute to get into specifics on an i. i was aware of a desire of the president to potentially, ah, march to it, or, or accompany the am rally attendees to the capital. when did you 1st hear about this idea of the president accompanying rally? attendees to be kept on shapes with his, his address 6 is he. during june battery finishes remarks. when the president said that he would be going to the capital during his speech on the ellipse, the secret service scrambled to find a way for him to go. we know this from witnesses and the secret service,

also for messages among staff on the president's national security council. the n s . c staff were monitoring the situation in real time. and you can see how the situation involved in the following chat log that the committee has obtained. as you can see, n s c staff believed that mogul, the president, was quote, going to the capital and quote, they are finding the best route. now. from these chats, we also know the staff learned of the attack on the capital in real time. and president trump left the ellipse stage. at 110, the staff knew that rioters had invaded the inaugural stage and capitol police were calling for all available officers to respond when republican leader kevin mccarthy, heard the president say he was going to the capital. he called you miss hutchinson

. isn't that right? that's correct. and in this text message, you told tony renato, quote, mccarthy just called me too. and do you guys think you're coming to my office? tell us about the call that day was leader mccarthy. during the president's speech on the ellipse. i was still in the 10 behind the stage when you're behind the stage, you can't really hear what's going on in front of you. so and mr. mccarthy called me with this information. i answer to connie's sounded a rush, but also frustrated and angry at me and i was confused because i didn't know what the president had just said. i'm. he then explained the president who said he's marching to the capital. you told me this whole week. you are coming up here. why would you lie to me? i said i'm, i'm not lying. i wasn't lying to you sir. i. we're not going to the capital. and he

said, well, he just set it on stage. kasey figure it out. don't come up here. i said all all around the troughs on this not i'll shoot you a text i can assure you, we're not coming up to the capital. we've already made that decision. he price a little bit more believing me, but i think frustrated that the president had said that and we ended the phone conversation. after that i called mr renato to reconfirm that we were going to the capital. and which is also in our text messages, eisen sent mr. mccarthy, another text telling him their formative that we were not going up to the capital. and he didn't respond after that. and we understand miss hutchinson, that the plans for the present months, the capital i had included discussions at some point about what the president would do when he came up to the capital on january 6. ah, let's look at a clip,

a one of your interviews discussing that issue with the committee. we were talking about a scheduled movement. did anyone say was president, why did you when he got here? no, not that i can specifically remember i remember. i remember hearing a few different ideas, discuss with market scow, perry martin, rudy giuliani. i don't know which conversations were elevated to the president. i don't know why he personally wanted to do when he went up to the capital that day. and i know that there were discussions about him having another speech outside of the counselor before going in and know that there's a conversation about him going into the house chamber at one point as we've all

just heard in the days leading up to january 6th on the day of the speech both before and during and after the rally speech president trump was pushing his staff to arrange for him to come up here to the capital during the electoral vote count. let's turn now to what happened in the president's vehicle. when the secret service told him he would not be going to the capitol after his speech. first, here is the president's motorcade leaving the ellipse after his speech on january 6 . ms. hutchinson. when you return to the white house in the motorcade after the president's speech, where did you go?

when i returned to the white house, i walked up stairs towards the chief of staff's office, and i noticed mister rinaldo lingering outside of the office once we had made eye contact, he quickly waved me to go into his office, which is just across the hall from mind when i went in he shut the door. i notice bobby angle, who's the head of mr. trump security detail sitting in a chair, looking somewhat discombobulated little last. i looked at tony, he had said, did you ever hear it happened in the beasts? said no, tony, i just got back. what happened tony proceeded to tell me that when the president gotten the beast, he was under the impression from mr. meadows that the off the record movement to the capitol was so possible and likely to happen. but that bobby had more information. so as the president had gotten into the vehicle with bobby, he thought that they were going up to the capital. and when bobby had related to

him or not, we don't have the assets to do it. it's not secure. we're going back to the west wing. the president had very strong, very angry response to that. tony described him as being i read the president said something to the effect of, i'm the of him president. take me up to the capital now. to which bobby responded, sir, we have to go back to the west wing. the president reached out towards the front of the vehicle to grab at the steering wheel. mister angled grabbed his arm, said sir, you need to take your hand off the steering wheel. we're going back to the west wing, we're not going to the capitol. mister trump then used his free hand to lunch towards bobby angle. and mister, when mister or not, i had recounted the stories me. he had motioned towards his clavicles and was

mister angle in the room, as mister nato told you this story. he was dead mister engel, correct, or disagree with any part of the story for mister or nato. mister angleton, not correct or disagree with any part of the story. did mister angle or mister r nato ever after that, tell you that what mister or nato had just said was untrue. neither mister renado nor mister angle told me ever that it was untrue. and despite this altercation his physical altercation during the ride back to the white house, president trump still demanded to go to the capital. here's what caly mcinerney, the white house press secretary at the time, wrote in her personal notes and told the committee about president trump's desire to go to the capital. after returning to the white house. when you were just wanted

to walk to the capital, was that based solely on what the president said during this speech for anything that you or anybody else said afterwards? so to that is my recollection. i believe when we got back to the white house, he said he wanted to physically walk with mark harrison according to my notes events that you'd be fine with just writing. but that is my recollection. he wanted to be a part of the marsh. and just for the, for the presidential limousine yet president trump did not go to the capital that day. we understand that he blamed mark meadows for that so prior to leaving the raleigh site, so that is a life picture from capitol hill where the u. s. house committee investigating the january 6 riots and the storming of the capital is holding a surprise. hearing to present recently have claimed evidence and to start witness

. right there is cassidy hutchinson. she is a former top aid to mark meadows, who's the chief of staff, or donald trump. what she said so far is that according to her testimony, that is meadows told her on january 2nd 2021. that quote, things might get real real bad on january 6th. also, she testified against the president, trump's authority, rudy giuliani, who told her quote something to the effect of we're going to the capitol will take a short break on al jazeera. we'll have more coverage of the testimony in just a moment. ah ah. and

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