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forces have turned their attention to capturing the donetta region after president vladimir putin claim victory in neighboring lu. hans province residential buildings on a market where his killing at least 2 people. finland and sweden had begun formal procedures to join nato. they saw protocols, law law, launching the process of ref, cation by all 30 member states. the nordic countries pushed from membership of the alliance after russia invaded ukraine. equity was president, has appointed for new cabinet ministers of the wave of high profile resignations collateral. alaska gave no reason for the changes which come less than a week after the end of damaging protests against the cost of living. the demonstrations ended when the government reached dia, with indigenous leaders to lower fuel prices. i see headlines nice continues here, not as air. after the stream stay with us, talk to al jazeera,

we ask you be more specific, how many jobs are you asking for? and what kind of military equipment we listen, asked the people of cuba in the street. if there is a difference between donald trump angel, but for them it's saying we meet with global news makers. i'm talk about the stories that matter on al jazeera. i i as i me okay, thanks for watching the stream us companies in the past of claim they had no idea that their products made from the shingle region of china benefited from forced labor. now the weaker forced labor prevention at means that the companies themselves have to prove that their goods have no connection with forced labor in the changing region of china. what could this mean for consumers and the garment industry and other industries as well? we start our conversation with us sen, marco rubio, who is

a fuse yardstick supporter of this new import bad for far too long, companies like nike and apple and amazon and coca cola we're using forced labor. they were benefiting from force labor or sourcing from suppliers that were suspected of using force labor. these companies sadly, were making all of us complicit in these crimes. it's a common sense bill that says if you make things in john, then you need to prove that there is no slave labor involved in making it before you can bring that stuff into the united states. this is a conversation that impacts all of us wherever we are in the world of your consumer . this conversation is about you as well. jumping to you to be part of our discussion. let us meet your panel so you know you're going to be talking to joe, ha, cur sofi. so lovely to have all of you here on the stream. doha, welcome back, please. we might not audience who you are and what you do. hello,

my name is joe. ha, ha. i am forced labor project coordinator here at the worker rights consortium. i am wheeler id. nice to have you back. can please say hello that international viewers? yes. hi, my name is kurt gibbs. i've been working in china for the last 19 years. i'm currently at the university of san francisco work, not a book on, on china, and the experts with foreign businesses. there. i'm also the immediate past president of the american chamber of commerce in char, thanks of being with us care. and so we welcome to the string. nice to have you tell everybody who you are, what you do. hi. and so if you can answer and the author of worn at people's history of clothing, and i'm a writer based in brooklyn to have. all right, so i'm going to show you a map, viewers of the shingles region of china. have a look because i'm going to get jo, hard to tell me about the human rights issues with this region, and then come to tell us why it's such a big business region and industry goes to this area. so here we are just going to

map it out to you. she jack, when you look at that, joe hall from the human rights perspective, briefly because we've talked to you about this before. what is going on that day is now a law preventing american businesses from doing business day. if force labor is being used. should jack for the past few years, the chinese government has been implementing repressive policies in the we're region in the names of poverty alleviation come back to your religious extremism and countering terrorism. but in fact, they've been implementing different as a nation. different kinds of the for present policies like force, widespread state sponsor forms of force labor practices for sterilization force birth control and gender based sexual harassment and surveillance. me. i'm one of the victims of such repressive policies. i grew up having bugging devices in

my home. now i'm separated from my family members for the past 9 years. i have at least 4 to 5 family members in my family are, are in locked up in a prison or in a cam. i'm going to just remind out what is what the region is, where we're talking about again on that map. so they can see it. tell us from a business, an industry perspective, what does she, john mean for china and for the world? you know, she's young. i mean, it's an enormous place, right? i mean, it's got a gdp of about $200000000000.00 a year. it is the largest province in china. it's also about the size of mexico. and i think this is an important point because some of the things that we're going to be talking about here around the human rights issues, which definitely exist. i mean, the human rights issues, inch and young have been well documented by, by scholars and other reputable organizations in beijing so far as not really address the issues i would like to, to, to address, you know, during the, in the, in the lead up, you know, you quoted, you showed sen. rubio comments you, i would,

i would take issue with that. i mean, again, syndrome is an enormous places, a lot of different things happening there. so, you know, most of the american businesses have been operating in china for many years operate at a very high level of ethical standards and, and have done made, made great efforts at auditing their supply chains. beijing thus far has been doing things that are, let's say, less than cooperative and in the sense that they've been restricting activities of something audit firms that, that would be involved in making sure that there's no force labor in the supply chains. i think it's important to note that if you can't have an independent auditor come in, it really is impossible to say that force labor isn't present. and that's one of the things that right scripts have pointed to in the past. that if you can't have an independent auditor come in, it's not possible to say that you know what's happening on the ground. cathy, yeah,

i would agree with that. i would agree with that. i mean, i get and having independent, transparent 3rd party auditors is really critical and you know, organizations like the better cause initiative. and so i think what's happened is since foreign companies have not been able to get that kind of visibility and transparency, they've unfortunately had to withdraw from, from function john entirely. and i think that's unfortunate because again, there's a lot of different things happening. it's an enormous place, and again, the forced labor may be happening in certain parts of it, but to sort of punish, to punish the entire province for, for the actions that may be happening in some parts of it. it doesn't really seem logical. so i'm just looking here at a spokesperson from a chinese government official. what is that to prevent when force labor is non existent, ation j. u. s. week a force labor sanction act is built on lies and to design to go off the hinge and

strong economic status, such as agriculture, solar industry, to improve race and to stabilize the region. so joe is as, as earlier, the other 2 is because mention that there is no the due diligence auditing is not possible in the region. the auditors, the moment they land in the airport in the region, they are locked up as well. workers cannot speak to auditors or investigators freely and but still there have been survivors made successful and made out of the region and have skipped to central asia or to the us. we have forced paper camp survivors who had testified on their experience, experiences how they happen for they were forced to work, making glows, were forced to teach in a camp or force to force to make other types of products,

whether sweaters or shoes. there are 4th labor survivors out there that can testify on, on their shoulder as it is. and how force paper does exist in the we or region. and also there are various reports from that were released from shuttle home universities. the wondering cotton report, the under broad day light report and also other recent reports on p. b. c. an old document documented how the global supply chains are heavily complicit in the legal for labor. so we will actually goes to se, wait, if you don't mind me jumping yeah, good point was, was talking about, you know, the, the, the audit trails and me. so it's, and it's one thing for aging to simply deny it, but you, but they need to provide that level of transparency so that we can see what's actually happening in there. that one of the thing to point out, i mean jew, ours is talking about the situation and she and john, and i think that's the one that's getting the most attention right now. and it's,

it's, it's the issue that has the most direct impact on global business. i think it's important to, to, to also point out that there's other human rights issues in china as well. and let's not forget about that. ready to be china host as prison, human rights lawyers and others who've been defending people in china who are advocating for women's rights l g, q rights involved in land disputes with the government. so there's, there's a lot of other issues there there as well. i'm going to bring in a new voice, so if anyone come straight to you for, if you wouldn't mind, this is doug berry. that's correct. the earlier he's communicate to me gives me comes on publications, vice president of the us china business council. we were wondering about enforcement. how do we enforce a lot that makes companies responsible for what and how their products are made, making sure they're not using force labor. this is what doug told us earlier. the

good part so far has been that the u. s. customs and border protection office which is responsible for enforcing the law has done so in a very targeted and focused manner. it's not going to be that they're going to grab everything that comes from china and scrutinize it for forced labor. so the good part is, is that it's limited and focused. there is the law and effect, and the u. s. companies are determined to follow it. and they are fully supportive of following in every ducks found in quite positive that that this law could actually work and he is being enforced well, i mean, i think there's a lot of hopefulness and there should be, there's a lot of unknowns how strictly it will be in for us, what kind of transparency we'll have from customs and border protection to allow the civil sector to see how well it's being enforced and whether or not it will become active globally. so currently, if a batch of goods is detained,

the company importing those goods, has the ability to simply export them to a country where the span isn't in play. so there's a question there of how global the reach of this band will be. i agree, i like to buy a great point sophie, that is why so crucial for other countries to also apply to other countries to to pass similar law then for companies around the world to apply single unified standard. just like, just like for their markets in the u. s, they cannot be, they should not be hypocritical and pretend to be carrying about human rights in the u. s. and go direct, redirect their shipments to, to canada, to australia, to you and ended up making both countries a, dumping ground full force. they were tinted. good. i'm going to bring in a voice, you know. yeah, yeah, you can 1st and then i'm going to go ahead. sure. let me just make a quick point. i think that's, that's true that there has to be sort of

a unified approach in a multilateral approach because that's true. you know, with these goods, especially since we're talking about cotton, that's a, that's an input. so that can be easily shipped to say, vietnam or bangladesh. and then these products end up coming into that you were united states. anyway. i would agree with the part that this, this, this law will be implemented for sure. and companies have no choice but to but to comply. however, i would actually point out that i, i actually would disagree. i don't, i don't think it's going to impact. i don't think it's going to protect the rights of wiggers, and i don't think it's going to stop forced labor in china. and here's why. the way that the law has been drafted, it's using this, this thing called a rebuttable presumption. and what this means is, again, back to sen. rubio comments that are just making this assumption that everything in coming from the youngest is, is, is coming. they're being made with course labor. and that's really just not, that's not the case, especially, and the importers are being forced to prove that force labor is not being used,

meaning that they have to prove a negative, which is actually next to impossible. and let me just explain that with an example . if i can, i so, so example, if, if, if, if i run a red light, that's a traffic violation should be if i'm guilty of that, it should be easy not to prove. what if i'm asked to prove that i have not run a red light any time in the last book? how will i go about doing that? i less so analysis back to the weakest, joe. ha, how do you prove it? how do you prove that goods are being made using force labor? if china won't allow people into the sheep jang region, which is typical behavior of boys boys go to see where their products are produced, how they're produced, how the labor works. that is classic behavior. if you've got a production area outside of your own country or even in your country, so to cozy point, you didn't. how do you prove it in good?

it is very difficult. that is why supply can transparent and say it's so crucial. and that is why it is very important for companies to know where their sources sourcing from who are working to make those products. and then there are companies who are able to disclose those data because they had been tracing their supply chain since the beginning before the law has passed before force labor we were forced labor issues had ever existed in the past. they had been doing a good job and a lot of those companies had not be heavily impacted by the, the passage of this law. and if this such a brand can do it, that means other brands, it is feasible for other brands. so do it as well. it just matter off cost a matter of real and it is difficult. of course, we cannot deny that it is going to be heavily impacting some industries that have not been doing a good job in verifying and monitoring their supply chains and tracing their data

tracing. their raw materials says he's almost as if the bronze is like, let's see what we can get away with. let's see if we could do this. it's going to save us so much money. if we don't have to make sure that our products are made ethically. syfy, i think it's, i think it's very important to acknowledge what a huge role the u. s. carman industry in particular has had in creating the situation inch and john as it now stands in 1092. so 30 years ago, congress passed a bill that would have forced china to improve its human rights record if it wanted to gain preferential access to u. s. markets. george h. w. bush vetoed got bill under intense pressure from retail executives, companies like gap and kmart and limited who wanted to continue to be able to access cheap chinese made garments since 2006. u. s. has imported by far more garments than any other country on earth. and since 2018, it's been really hard to ignore that there are internment camps active in chin junk, and yet companies are still doing business there. so it's

a long time coming. and i think the u. s. it should be at the forefront of the fight against force, labor inch. and john, because we've really been at the forefront of produce up throwing billions of dollars into a region where this is happening. i am wondering if we're at a stage where we're grappling with global accountability for how our products are being made. can i just do a quick poll and just check with you as to who's responsible as it consumers, the companies or corporations of the government? sophie, all 3, i think that because corporations are the one profiting from miss, it should be their duty foremost, but they operate within structures created by the government. and consumers of course, provide that profit ultimately. so i think i had to rate them. i would say corporations, governments and then consumers at the bottom, i just had a very much agree with what. so he just said, i think the u. s. government had to pass such a lot because companies had not been doing their jobs. if they had honestly

disclosed their supply chain, dad has had honestly not been complicit in force. they were to be honest. the there were reports on force. i had been out since early 2018. 2019 w. r. o have been passed since the companies have more than enough time to be warned on that. such laws might be coming, but they chose to be continued to stay and profit from we were forced labor whose fault is that the companies wanted to profit off this. we were forced labor and now they should not be complaining that this law is. that is going to be enforced rigorously. they should not, they, they don't have to that they don't have their right to complain on that. i would agree with the, you know, all 3, i mean every everybody, all the constituencies have responsibility to, to, to make sure that force labor is not in their supply chain. so i would certainly agree with that. i put, i would put a little more emphasis on the, on the responsibility of governments and especially the government in beijing,

you know, to, to provide more transparency. because i think there's a misunderstanding here about what, what companies really desire companies desire to have clean supply chains. they want to be free, of course labor every, everybody agrees about worst labor present all the way back. and i can, i just ask you, because you're so experience when you, when you're talking about companies and working the region. you know, this area intimately. if company say it, but then don't do anything. is that commitment is that accountability? if you say that they really can, can you give us an example of how much they can? well, well again, i mean it's a, it's a, it's a question of transparency is right now, beijing has, has actually limited access to the region. they have restricted the activities of some of these 3rd party supply chain audit firms. and so they've, they've made it very difficult for foreign companies to operate with change out. so,

to me, that's the issue. it's a, it's an issue of transparency. so they were selling a nation if they could get something. so knowing what they know right now that there's a possibility that perhaps some of their products are made using for labor. what do they do? they withdraw, they, they, daily, and that's what's going to we're going to see here and the response to that you have lpa. what we're going to see here is again, because the law is next to impossible to comply with. what we're going to see here is we're going to see companies withdraw from, from percent young, entirely. and again that i look at that it's a shame because there's so much, it's such a large problems and there's so many different different things happening there. but also in response to the, to, to the law there's going to be a lot of confusion and delays that because as a practical matter it's still unclear what the cost of border patrol. ready guidance, guidance is, is there, but it's still unclear as to how to exactly to comply with the center options and

supplies. i hate and bring in some thoughts for math is watching on youtube right now to share them with you. so say we caught a pool, we call it is an option, is it? and then david says, it's not just comments as test lat, apple. nike. sophie? i absolutely. it's not just garments and i'm in solar panels are a huge component of this is art tomatoes. but i think the boycott question is interesting. i mean, a historical parallel that occurs to me. here is european textile manufacturers were completely reliant on slave cotton from the us in the 19th century, when suddenly the civil war interrupted their supply. what did they do? russia rushed into central asia to colonize it, to grow a supply of rock cotton. the british intensify their control over india. so basically they lost a source of, of ra cotton and they just created human rights crises and ecological crisis

elsewhere. so are we going to see brands now just intensify ecological distress and other parts of the world as they rush to find other sources of ra cotton? that's the real concern for me. and i think it's why it's important to think beyond shin jong and think ecologically and, and from a labor perspective, about the global trace of cotton. in general, i'm going to bring in chloe cranston. and i'm going to come straight to joe hop a have a listen to chloe festival, because this isn't just about the activism you go to have one little past. it has to be a bigger picture, his chloe. and then joe, i'll just come and meet in the back of the video. truly put pressure on the chinese government and the systems and pieces. we need to see other governments around the world industries comparable laws. the absence of such laws and other countries is particularly creating the risk that these markets become dumping grounds for weaker forced labor goods. and is specifically the case given that under the u. s. law. if a company has a shipment, sees it can simply re export that shipment to another market. and that's why we're

calling another governments in particular the ear which is the world's largest single market to introduce laws which on the import of force labor goods. i very much agree with chloe's point. i'm preventing other crunches from a dumping ground. i also wanted to go back to what i mean earlier. nation whether cotton is the only sector that we should be carrying about. so the, the cutting industry is the most talked about because it's close as i guess it's closest to consumer is lives because everybody bike load thing doesn't matter per, rich or poor. and also 84 percent of the cut in production of china is from that we have a region that is 22 percent of the global continental put a same time as also as mation solar industry. and that is the key material for the soul industry. polysilicon that is 45 percent of the world's polysilicon is produced in the weaver region and also tag hair, product, tomatoes, any, any sector at this juncture and no responsible corporations for any sector should

be source. and from that we have a region. yes indeed. there are many things that is happening in that we were region, but what we, what we do know is that there are over 1800000 we were, people are locked up in red keisha camps are going through occasional training. schools are, are locked up in factories to working conditions that strongly indicate force labor . and the chinese government is even proud and advertising it and considered calling it so cool for poverty alleviation. while a lot of those people who are locked up are either a medical doctor is a dentist. professor is like my father or nurse as people who had wives and families and jobs before. ok, i am going to need a conversation with russian who actually has a thought for our view is who consumers around the world. he, she is my own sister. thus the shuttle bus was taken as

a hostage. her punish me for exposing china's gen. satan policies could be making the shirt that's on your back and the we her professors amos, why jews, successful business people and the pop stars could be picking your cotton. there are perpetrators and the enablers under genocide. and when you use the company's products and those companies who are using will force labor making all of you to enable nurse, i want to show you one more thing and it's here, my laptop is a weaker force labor database. go to www dot j w w dot org slash weaker dash china force labor database. you put a little section in here,

you put the company name in there. it will tell you if the groups or the company has force labor connections and machines, i'm region of china. thank you guys for being part of today, shall i will see you next time. take everybody the latest news as it breaks. this decision basically said that the robi way decision was simply wrong. it is highly unusual for supreme court to overrule precedent with detailed coverage. the probab road will not only significantly reduce the problem, but is expected to initially economic boom from around the world. this one here depicts the late who would move up on a no up who was revolutionary poems in his play of the many and then the price is 300 years of danish colonization and indian national interest in the idence resources. great. a younger generation emerging,

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