to find because we knew it was there, and finally, remember, find it. now, there is a lot of work going on to study. it's a little bit like, can you discover a new cave in a mountain? then you take a lot of time in order to explore to cave and to understand how this case goes. if there are no painting, physicists hope it will reveal the secret of dark latter that make up 85 percent of our universe, but does not absorb, reflect or emit light. the data which is open to the public for analysis is streaming. in of the already, scientists have discovered 3 new exotic clocks. the tiniest particles ever found. they exist for just 800000 of a 1000000000 of a 1000000000 of a 2nd. and could give us about the origins of the universe and it's fate. charlie angela al jazeera. ah,

hello, you're watching out to 0. they the top stories this hour, the british prime minister is once again fighting full political survival. both to finance and house ministers step down on tuesday saying they've lost confidence in bars johnson. after months of scandals, he said to face tough questions in parliament on wednesday for brennan has moved from london. the really interesting thing from p m q will be what the questions emerging from bars johnson's own side will be and how critical his own back bench m . p 's will be about his leadership and about his chances of staying on then after pm queues at around 14 g, m t. for, for 2 hours, he must face a really probably intense drilling from the commons liaison committee. now the liaison committee is 35 m p 's who are the chairs of the individual select committee. this is a really high powered parliamentary committee, and for 2 hours they will be able to cross examine the prime minister about

a range of subjects such as the war in ukraine. but specifically about the way he's handled, the masses that we're talking about here and funeral is being held for 21. and people who died in a bar in a london in south africa was already currently investigating the cause of death. the young people had been out celebrating the end of their exam. please say they will know what the signs of injury the bar has been closed down. while work is in france going on strike to the mines, better pay amid stopping shortages and rising inflation. the industrial action comes at the beginning of the summer holidays. the french government is due to announce the cost of living build to help citizens comb with rising prices. rushes turned its attention to capturing the eastern don't yet gradient of ukraine. several cities have come under heavy bombardment. at least 2 people were killed by strikes on a market in that of yen. on tuesday, attacks have also been reported in crematory and israeli forces have shot and

killed a young palestinian men in the occupied west bank during confrontations after israeli military aid. dozens of people have been detained during a massive operation by israeli forces. okay, those are the headlines i'm emily, anglo and he's continues here on al jazeera after the string. new voice is heating up the airway. lot of chinese listeners who's kimberly here, where they really think in their own country shifting power basis. the rise of citizen journalism has changed everything. how do happen? it happened on social media and the undeniable impact of the mainstream narrative australians went to the polls with those images front of mine is a war that very much came forth out in the media as well as on the battlefield. they're listening post. dissect the media on al jazeera. i i as i me okay, thanks for watching the stream

u. s. companies in the past of claim they had no idea that their products made from the changing region of china benefited from force labor. now, the weaker force labor prevention at means that the companies themselves have to prove that their goods have no connection with force labor in the changing region of china. what could this mean for consumers and the garment industry and other industries as well? we start our conversation with us sen, marco rubio, who is a fuse the aspect supporter of this new import bad for far too long. companies like nike and apple and amazon and coca cola we're using forced labor. they were benefiting from force labor or sourcing from suppliers that were suspected of using force labor. these companies sadly, were making all of us complicit in these crimes. it's a common sense bill that says it. if you make things in john, then you need to prove that there is no slave labor involved in making it before

you can bring that stuff into the united states. this is a conversation that impacts all of us wherever we are in the world of your consumer . this conversation is about you as well. jumping to you to be part of our discussion. let us meet your panel so you know you're going to be talking to joe, ha, cur sofi. so lovely to have all of you here on the stream. doha, welcome back, please. we wanna audience who you are and what you do. hello, my name is joe. ha ha, i am forced labor project quarter here at t worker rights consortium. i am over here. i nice to have you back. can please say hello to our international viewers. yes, hi, my name is kirk gibbs. i've been working in china for the last 19 years. i'm currently at the university of san francisco work, not a book on, on china and the experience of foreign businesses. there. i'm also the media powder president of the american chamber of commerce. and char, thanks for being with us care and safely welcome to the street. nice to have

a telephone, who you are, what you do? i am sophie tannhauser, and the author of worn at people's history of clothing. and i'm a writer based in brooklyn to happy. all right, so i'm going to show you a map, viewers of the sheen junk region of china. have a look because i'm going to get jo, hard to tell me about the human rights issues with this region. and incur to tell us why it's such a big business region and industry goes to this area. so here we are just going to map it out for you. she jack. when you look at that, joe hall from the human rights perspective, briefly because we've talked to you about this before, what is going on. but there is now a law preventing american businesses from doing business day. if force labor is being used. should jack for the past few years, the chinese government has been implementing repressive policies in the we're region in the names of poverty alleviation come back to your religious extremism

and countering terrorism. but in fact, they've been implementing different as a nation. different kinds of the for present policies, like of course, widespread state sponsor forms of course labor practices for sterilization force birth control and gender based sexual harassment and surveillance. me. i'm one of the victims of such repressive policies. i grew up having bugging devices in my home. now i am separated from my family members for the past 9 years. i have at least 4 to 5 family members in my family are, are in locked up in a prison or in a cam. i'm going to just remind out what is what the region is, where we're talking about again on that map. so they can see it. tell us from a business, an industry perspective, what does she drank? mean for china and for the world. you know, she's young. i mean, it's an enormous place, right? i mean, it's got a gdp of about $200000000000.00 a year. it is the largest province in china. it's also about the size of mexico.

and i think this is an important point because some of the things that we're going to be talking about here around the human rights issues, which definitely exist. i mean, the human rights issues in shins, young have been well documented by scholars and other reputable organizations in beijing so far as not really address the issues i would like to, to, to address, you know, during the, in the, in the lead up, you know, you quoted, you showed sen. rubio, comments and you, i would, i would take issue with that. i mean, again, since younger is an enormous places, a lot of different things happening there. so, you know, most of the american businesses have been operating in china for many years operate at a very high level of ethical standards and, and have done made, made great efforts at auditing their supply chains. beijing thus far has been doing things that are say, less than cooperative and in the sense that they've been restricting activities. if

something audit firms that that would be involved in making sure that there's no forced labor in the supply chains. i think it's important to note that if you can't have an independent auditor come in, it really is impossible to say that force labor isn't present. and that's one of the things that rights groups have pointed to in the past. that if you can't have an independent auditor come in, it's not possible to say that you know what's happening on the ground. cathy, yeah, i would agree with that. i would agree with that. i mean, i get it having independent, transparent, 3rd party auditors is really critical and, you know, organizations like the better cause initiative. and so i think what's happened is since foreign companies have not been able to get that kind of visibility and transparency, they've unfortunately had to withdraw from, from function young entirely. and i think that's unfortunate because again, there's a lot of different things happening. it's an enormous place, and again,

force labor may be happening in certain parts of it, but to sort of punish, to punish the entire province for, for the actions that may be happening in some parts of it. it doesn't really seem logical. so i am just looking here at a spokesperson from a chinese government official. what is that to prevent when force labor is non existent, ation j. u. s. week of force labor sanction at is built on lies and to design to go off the hinge and strong economic status, such as agriculture, solar industry, to improve race and to stabilize the region. so joe as well as as earlier, the other 2 is because mention that there is no the due diligence auditing is not possible in the region. the auditors, the moment they land in the airport in the region, they are locked up as well. workers cannot speak to auditors or investigators

freely and but still there have been survivors made successful and made out of the region and have skipped to central asia or to the us. we have forced labor camp survivors who have testified on your experience, experiences, how they happen for they were forced to work, making glows or force to teach in a camp or force to force to make other types of products. whether it's sweaters or shoes. there are forced labor survivors out there that can testify on on there. and then showing the evidence on how force paper does exist in the we or region. and also there are various reports from that were released from shuttle hall them universities, the laundering, catching report. the under broad day light report and also other recent reports on pvc. an old document documented how the global supply chain are heavily complicit

in the legal force labor. so we will actually goes to se, way to mind me jumping point was, was talking about, you know, the, the, the audit trails. i mean, so it's, and it's one thing for beijing to simply deny it, but you, but they need to provide that level of transparency so that we can see what's actually happening in there. that one of the thing to point out, i mean, you are as is talking about the situation change on, and i think that's the one that's getting the most attention right now. and it's, it's, it's the issue that has the most direct impact on global business. i think it's important to, to, to also point out that there's other human rights issues in china as well. and let's not forget about that. ready to be china host as prison, human rights lawyers and others who've been defending people in china who are advocating for women's rights l g, q rights involved in land disputes with the government. so there's, there's a lot of other issues there there as well. i'm going to bring in a new voice,

so if anyone come straight to me, if i, if you wouldn't mind if doug bury got her after the be early, he's communicate to me. gives me comes on publications, vice president of the us china business council. we were wondering about enforcement. how do we enforce a lot that makes companies responsible for what and how their products are made, making sure they're not using force labor. this is what doug told us earlier. the good part so far has been that the u. s. customs border protection office which is responsible for enforcing the law has done so in a very targeted and focused manner. it's not going to be that they're going to grab everything that comes from china and scrutinize it for forced labor. so the good part is, is that it's limited and focused. there is a law and effect, and the u. s. companies are determined to follow it. and they are fully supportive of following in every ducks sounding quite positive that the best law

could actually work. and he is being enforced well, i mean, i think there's a lot of hopefulness and there should be there's a lot of unknowns how strictly it will be in for us. what kind of transparency we'll have from customs and border protection to allow the civil sector to see how well it's being enforced and whether or not it will become active globally. so currently, if a batch of goods is detained, the company importing those goods, has the ability to simply export them to a country where the span isn't in play. so there's a question there of how global the reach of the span will be. i agree, i like to add on by great points sofi, that is why so crucial for other countries to also apply to other countries to to pass similar law then for companies around the world to apply single unified

standard. just like, just like for their markets in the u. s, they cannot be, they should not be hypocritical and pretend to be carrying about human rights in the u. s. and go direct, redirect their shipments to, to canada, to australia, to you and, and making both countries a, dumping ground full force. they were tinted. good. i'm going to bring into a voice, you know? yeah, yeah, if you go 1st and then i'm going to go ahead. sure. let me just make a quick point. i think that's, that's true that there has to be sort of a unified approach in a multilateral approach because that's true. you know, with these goods, especially since we're talking about cotton, that's a, that's an input. so that can be easily shipped to say, vietnam or bangladesh. and then these products end up coming into that you were united states. anyway. i would agree with the part that this, this, this law will be implemented for sure. and companies have no choice but to but to comply. however, i would actually point out that i actually would disagree. i don't, i don't think it's going to impact. i don't think it's going to protect the rights

of wiggers, and i don't think it's going to stop forced labor in china. and here's why. the way that the law has been drafted, it's using this, this thing called a rebuttable presumption. and what this means is, again, back to sen, rubio comments that are just making this assumption that everything in coming from st john is, is, is, is coming. they're being made with course labor. and that's really just not, that's not the case, especially, and the importers are being forced to prove that force labor is not being used, meaning that they have to prove a negative, which is actually next to impossible. and let me just explain that with an example . if i can so, so example if, if, if, if i run a red light, that's a traffic violation should be if i'm guilty of that, it should be easy not to prove. what if i'm asked to prove that i have not run a red light any time in the last book? how will i go about doing that?

i less so analysis back to the weakest, joe. ha, how do you prove it? how do you prove that goods are being made using force labor? if china won't allow people into the changing region, which is typical behavior of boys, boys go to see where their products are produced, how they're produced, how the labor works, that is classic behavior. if you've got a production area outside of your own country or even in your country, so to come to the point, he didn't. how do you prove it? indeed it is very difficult. that is why supply can transparency. it's so crucial, and that is why it's very important for companies to know where their source of sourcing from who are working to make those products. and then there are companies weren't able to disclose those data because they have been tracing their supply chain since the beginning before the law had passed before for the labor we were forced labor issues had ever existed in the past. they have been doing

a good job and a lot of those companies have not be heavily impacted by the, the passage of the law. and if such a brand can do which that means other brands, it is feasible for other brands to do it as well. it just matter of cost a matter of field and it is difficult. of course, we cannot deny that it is going to be heavily impacting some industries that have not been doing a good job in verifying and monitoring their supply chains and tracing their data tracing their raw materials. so if he's almost as if the brian says like, let's see what we can get away with. let's see if we can do this. it's gotta save so much money. if we don't have to make sure that our products are made ethically, i think, i think it's, i think it's very important to acknowledge what a huge role the u. s. government industry in particular has had in creating the situation in john as it now stands in 1992. so 30 years ago, congress passed a bill that would have forth china to improve its human rights record if it wanted

to gain preferential access to us markets. george h. w bush vetoed that bill under intense pressure from retail executives that companies like gap and kmart and limited who wanted to continue to be able to access cheap chinese made garments since 2006. u. s. has imported by far more garments than any other country on earth. and since 2018, it's been really hard to ignore that there are internment camps active in on and yet companies are still doing business there. so it's a long time coming. and i think the u. s, it should be at the forefront of the fight against force, labor inch. and john, because we've really been at the forefront of produce up throwing billions of dollars into a region where this is happening. i am wondering if we're at a stage where we're grappling with global accountability for how our products are being made. can i just do a quick poll and just check with you as to who's responsible as it consumers, the companies or corporations of the government? sophie, all 3, i think that because corporations are the one profiting from miss,

it should be their duty foremost, but they operate within structures created by the government. and consumers of course, provide that profit ultimately. so i think i had to rate them. i would say corporations, governments and then consumers at the bottom, i just had a very much agree with what. so he just said, i think the u. s. government had to pass such a lot because companies had not been doing their jobs. if they had honestly disclose their supply chain, dad has had honestly not been complicit in force. they were to be honest. the there were reports, of course they had been out since early 2018. 2019 w. r. o have been passed since the companies have more than enough time to be warned on that. such laws might be coming, but they chose to be continued to stay and profit from we were forced labor whose fault is that the company is wanting to profit off this. we were forced labor and

now they should not be complaining that this law is. that is going to be enforced rigorously. they should not, they, they don't have to that they don't have their right to complain on that. i would agree with the, you know, all 3. i mean, every, everybody, all the constituencies have responsibility to, to, to make sure that force labor is not in their supply chains. i would certainly agree with that, but i would put a little more emphasis on the responsibility of governments and especially the government in beijing. you know, to, to provide more transparency because i think there's a misunderstanding here about what, what companies really desire your company's desire to have clean supply chains. they want to be free, of course labor. every, everybody agrees about worst labor probably. but can i, can i just ask you, because you're so experienced when you, when you talk about companies and working, she's young region. you know, this area intimately. if company say it,

but then don't do anything. is that commitment, is that accountability? if you say that they really can, can you give us an example of how much they can? well, well again, i mean it's a, it's a question of transparency is right now, beijing has, has actually limited access to the region. they have restricted the activities of some of these 3rd party supply chain audit firms. and so they've, they've made it very difficult for foreign companies to operate with changes. so, to me, that's the issue. it's a, it's an issue of transparency. so they were selling a nation if they could get. so knowing what they know right now that there's a possibility that perhaps some of their products are made using for labor. what do they do? they withdraw they daily, and that's what's going to. we're going to see here and the response to that you have lpa. what we're going to see here is again, because the law is next to impossible to comply with. what we're going to see here

is we're going to see companies withdraw from, from percent young, entirely. and again that i look at that it's a shame because there's so much, it's such a large problems and there's so many different different things happening there. but also the response to the, to, to the law there's going to be a lot of confusion and delays that because as a practical matter it's still unclear what the customer border patrol. ready guidance, the guidance is, is there, but it's still unclear as to how to exactly to comply with the options and supplies . i hate and bring in some thoughts for math is watching on youtube right now to share them with you. so say we caught a pool, we call it is an option, is it? and then david says, it's not just comments as test lat. apple. nike says, i absolutely, it's nitrous garments and i'm in solar panels are a huge component of this art tomatoes. but i think the boycott question is interesting, i mean,

a historical parallel that occurs to me here is european textile manufacturers were completely reliant on slave cotton from the us in the 19th century, when suddenly the civil war interrupted their supply. what did they do? russia russian to central asia, to colonize it, to grow a supply of rock cotton. the british intensify their control over india. so basically they lost a source of ra cotton and they just created human rights crises and ecological crisis elsewhere. so are we going to see brands now just intensify ecological distress and other parts of the world as they rush to find other sources of rocket . and that's the real concern for me. and i think it's why it's important to think beyond shin jong and think ecologically and, and from a labor perspective, about the global trace of cotton. in general, i'm going to bring in chloe cranston. and i'm going to come straight to you, joe. hope i have a listen to chloe festival, because this isn't just about the activism you go to have one little past. it has to be a bigger picture, his chloe. and then joe,

how just come and meet in the back of the video? truly put pressure on the chinese government and the system could pieces. we need to see other governments around the world introduce comparable laws. the absence of such laws and other countries particularly creating the risk that these markets become dumping grounds for weaker force labor goods. on this particular case, given that under the u. s. law, if a company has a shipment, sees it can simply re export that shipment to another market. and that's why recalling another governments in particular the ear which is the world's largest single market to introduce laws which on the import of force labor goods. i very much agree with chloe's point. i'm preventing other crunches from a dumping ground. i also wanted to go back to what i mean earlier. nation whether cut cotton is the only sector that we should be carrying about. so the, the cutting industry is the most talked about because it's close as i guess it's closest to consumers lives because everybody bike load thing doesn't matter for

rich or poor. and also 84 percent of the cut in production of chinese from that we have a region that is 22 percent of the global cut and output at the same time as also as mation solar industry. and that is the key material for the soul industry. polysilicon that is 45 percent of the world's polysilicon is produced in the weaver region and also tag hair, product, tomatoes, any, any sector at the structure and no responsible. corporations for any sector should be source. and from that we have a region. yes indeed. there are many things that is happening in that we were region, but what we, what we do know is that there are over 1800000 we were, people are locked up in red keisha camps are going through vocational training. schools are, are locked up in factories to working conditions that strongly indicate force labor . and the chinese government is even proud and advertising it and considered calling it so cool for poverty alleviation. while

a lot of those people who are locked up are either a medical doctor is a dentist. professor is like my father or nurse as people who have wives and families and jobs before. ok, i am going to leave a conversation with russian who actually has a thought for our view is who consumers around the world. he, she is my own sister. thus the shuttle bus was taken as a hostage. her punish me for exposing china's chance and policies could be making the shirt that's on your back. and we, her professors famous why do's, successful business people and the pop stars could be picking your cotton. there are perpetrators and the enablers under genocide. and when you use

the company's products and those companies who are using we were forced labor making all of you to enable nurse. i want to show you one more thing and it's here, my laptop is a weaker force labor database. go to www dot j w w dot org slash wicker dash china force labor database. you put a little section in here, you put the company name in there. it will tell you if the groups or the company has force labor connections and machines, i'm region of china. thank you guys for being part of today shall i will see you next time. take everybody. in the 19 fifties and sixties african countries gained independence from the colonizers and increased efforts to reclaim their cultural heritage and 6000 body.

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