his head, his government would hold a referendum on the voice in parliament for indigenous australians by 2025. fundamentally these i reform, i believe avery is drawing kenning brice from all walks of life in every part of the country, from every vice, and background and tradition. because it speaks to values that we all share on, on the anus. respect, decency. it's drawn in your voice will be i national achievement. it will be of bob politics. i, you know, boy australian moment. ah, this is al jazeera on these on the top stories. now, hundreds of people have stormed iraq's parliament for

a 2nd time this week. that protesting against the nomination of mohammed, she also donnie as prime minister tear gas has been fired up for testers who have reached the heavily fortified green zone in baghdad. door search a bar, it has more from inside the rocky parliament. if you can see that behind me right now and this is. * inside the parliamentary building, where we've seen the demonstrators move in a few minutes ago, but last half hour is now filled with other supporters inside the parliament. this is where they say they will stay until their demands are met. and they are really taking a break very, very difficult. on that side. we'd have to walk about 4 kilometers to reach this building with the demonstrators since they broke the part of the barrier wall that separates the green zone from the rest of baghdad. 16 ships loaded with grain are waiting to leave a desk as port crenan farmers meanwhile are working to harvest more in the middle

of russian shelling the world is waiting for tens of millions of tons of going to be exported under deal struck with keith and moscow. last week, ukraine and russia have accused each other of attacking a prison in the town of, on an if come in the separatist hell, dumbass region, killing at least 50 inmates. most of them were from the as of battalion which defended the city of mariposa before it fell to russia till she dooley. this is a deliberate war crime by the russians, a deliberate mass, murder of ukrainian prisoners of war, the dis, disney ignore them was an awful while these reshay's little green city, every one who abuses ukrainians who tortures and kills, should know that there will be punishment for this, if some of the russian killers hoped that they will not be brought to justice, that they will hide somewhere, let them know they will be held accountable, that at least 56 people have died in flash floods that have devastated more than

a dozen provinces across iran search and rescue operations are continuing in flood his areas with fears the death toll could rise. there's other headlines. news continues here on al jazeera us after inside story. ah, the threat of nuclear war is greater than ever. that's the warning from britain's top security advise that he blamed the breakdown of communication between the west, russia and china, to what's needed to restore global security. this isn't had sort ah

hello, welcome to the program on the wrong card. the west could accidentally stumble into a nuclear war with russia or china. that's the warning from britain's national security advisor. steven lovegrove, who says communication channels between the west and its rivals of collapsed russia's invasion of ukraine. he says, is the clearest example of this break down. diplomacy fell to prevent the war moscow and keep haven't held face to face, talked since march, lovegrove says the conflict is just the beginning of a broader context for a successor to the post cold war international order. he's warning of new security risks as countries develop more advanced weapons and compete in both outer space and cyberspace. the solution that to dialogue between the west, russia and china, during the cold war, we benefited from a series of negotiations and dialogues that improved our understanding of soviet doctrine and capabilities and vice versa. this gave both of us

a higher level of confidence that we would not miscalculate our way into nuclear war. today, we do not have the same foundations with others who may threaten us in the future. and particularly with china. here the u. k. strongly supports president a biden's proposed talks, as with china as an important step. trust and transparency built through dialogue. should also mean that we can be more active in calling out noncompliance and misbehavior. when we see it. ah, let's bring it, i guess in london, a sale. assure a nuclear non proliferation and discernment, analyst in santander, spain. harry's party, a, c, e o of the consults. he rasmussen global, and in to lose france. alexander, he took a lecture in modern european history at queen's university belfast, a warm welcome to each of you. want to begin in london where the ursa hilcher. there is a very famous film doctor strange law, which is almost a parody, but also a warning about the,

about the way 2 countries can get into an accidental nuclear war. it was designed as a parody, but a lot of what was in that film. a lot of the central tenant of foreign policy is that there are back channels of those back channels will always save us. but now we have stephen lovegrove national security advisor to the u. k, saying those by channels don't exist. is he right? well, you know, it's no secret to you or your audience and run that. we're in a major, russia west crisis, and that includes the ongoing conflict in ukraine, but it's actually much wider than that. and i think we all have to ask ourselves, what kind of russia west crisis do we want? do we want a deep cold war, or do we want, how it was during the latter part of that period where we actually communicated with the adversary and we worked together to try to muddle through despite our different worldviews at the moment. it is true, the lack of dialogue between the us and russia, and nato and russia is putting us in a very precarious position because it's not just the back channel forms of

communication that are necessary. we also need a very, very resilient and smart front end channel communication. so for example, between president biden and put in and if we are to stumble into some sort of a nuclear conflict, i'm currently not competent, for example, that the hotline that exists between washington and moscow would be able to technically stand up to the challenges that would happen in a degraded environment in the middle of a nuclear war, for example. so steven love growth is comments c, s i s, and you see yesterday were very important and it's a very, very important reminder that we need to make sure that we have the ability to communicate clearly and smartly to the adversary because that's how we got out of the cold war, and that's how we'll also get out of this current. russia was crisis. let me bring in february policy a here for braces and not just about russia. china is also a very big concern for not just even love growth, but a communications with china generally. but we're in

a position now where perhaps we don't need that kind of communication, that big red telephone, this drones the satellites. nowadays, we've got different types of tech. you have monitoring, going on, you have other channels, those traditional methods of thinking about it. not really, but i see what is not up to date east the way we speak, including about nuclear deterrence. so i think as i did disagree with the previous speaker, it's not the the lack of title because it actually is not for the lack of having try to engage, especially with letting me put in. i mean, president, my call nato. it says the u. s. administration of all try to reach out to the russian president is the lack of interest on the site to truthfully and meaningfully engage with the west and try to minimize the risk of, of hopefully them in cedar and every fall. and i'll tell you what we have to focus

on on our side, is really what kennel language we want to speak and, and on nuclear, from supper. to fact that let me put, he used that the nuclear agitated nuclear flag. they early on ease warf aggression against you cray, that they don't really get a response for the western nuclear powers was actually a confirmation that the west has lost the beat of the nuclear difference grammar. and really 1st to reload the grammar before engaging in a meaningful dido. let me bring in alexander tito. here it makes for bruce makes a very interesting point about learning grammar and, and language and history. the 62 cuban missile crisis. everybody knows that the, the russians put missiles into cuba, which freaked out america, was night, miles away from the main on what everybody forgets is actually the only reason those missiles were in cuba is because the americans put missiles and turkey, which was in russia's backyard effectively there's always been

a disconnect between when it comes to the language and the framing of all of this when it comes to russia, when it comes to china, that they're always the bad guys. is that been unhelpful? well, i think got beyond good or bad guys. that's not, you know, relevant anymore horse. russia is better, chinese, bad, so far as the west is concerned. you know, there's nothing to discuss at the moment. you know, those cases are concerned actually just go back to the initial 60 to nissan rises. you know, that's when the red lines were put when the direct phone was put between washington multiple to prevent anything like this happening again. and that's really what created the called, what a security architecture of mutual deterrents and so forth. was this very of dangerous drivers which act later, later led to agreements in the early seventy's about limitations on arms and so

forth. so i'm afraid we would, we, having now i ease this. another crisis are very similar to that, that one where the red line so blurred, those are, there is some communication behind the lines. the, a russian military speaking to the route lies with american military and so forth. but at the same time will read lots of it, look, having a very radio build up all of our military assistance to grade the range of misses and so forth, which it previously if, even for my 3 months ago, that would be a thinkable. so an russians haven't really responded this, so we're gonna washington was this line where we were to know when the russians were actually say that enough is enough of, than mike and of escalated for their own, their own. so that's, that's what, what is the injured the moment is not so much like a communications, but this blurred lines which are very remiss, the nuisance of the not to 6 to ah, when the last at the music i was ever so i think i agree with. ready with us, because that, you know, they're actually very, very interested, lenient. okay,

so that's russia, that's china, that's a, you know, and that's the u. s. and that's the west, and there is a big red telephone and we just need to probably use it a bit more than we are using it. but there isn't a big red telephone to north korea, to pakistan, to india, to israel. and those guys have nuclear weapons and neither of them of signed the non liver ration tree sale. you know what, what is the, what is the danger of those states? those small estates with nuclear weapons? sure. let me make 2 quick points just to respond to my follow panelists. the 1st is, i totally agree with the brief. i think the main comment that i was trying to make is that we need resilient crisis communication channels. so that if this conflict in ukraine spirals into a wider, for example, nato russia conflict that we have the ability for our leaders, whether on the nuclear brink or already passed to nuclear brain, to avert complete calamity. and my 2nd point is that a part of deterrence is,

of course, being able to communicate effectively to your adversary. and if you don't have any communication channels open and you're simply relying on rhetorical posturing in public and in the media, that's a really dangerous place to be. and because it offers very little private off ramps to be able to de escalate the situation. and when it comes to your comment just now about their already being a read telephone and, but we don't have them with the other states. this is why i'm nervous. it's because that bilateral channel, between washington and moscow, there isn't one between washington and beijing as the leader level in the same that's created in the same way. and there also are very limited military to military channels between these 3 great powers. moreover, there is no way for any of the leaders of any of these countries, these 3 countries, and also the wider 9 countries in the world with nuclear weapons to be able to communicate multilaterally. so there's no way right now for the president biden,

president putin present, she to get all on the phone at once, especially in a degraded environment in the middle of say, a nuclear conflict. and we need something like that. in terms of the smaller nuclear power. there are rising emerging nuclear powers, of course, it's very dangerous and they all affect the international security environment in different ways. right now in north korea is expanding its nuclear arsenal. iran, it's becoming closer and closer. ready through a threshold state because the lack of agreement between the last in iran on restoring the 2015 nuclear deal. these are all very worrying developments. and in addition to the ongoing war in ukraine, they're going to factor in very heavily on over the course of the next month as the international community. a convenes in new york to discuss that 52 year old nuclear nonproliferation treaty the and p t, which is really that cornerstone international treaty that governs the world in terms of setting standards and also creating the pathways to global disarmament and

keeping a cap on proliferation at the same time, up for british the n p t, the nuclear non proliferation treaty has failed in many ways because india has nuclear weapons pakistan has them. israel has them, no korea has them. but there's no real communication between india and pakistan right now. and that is probably the closest flash point that we have for bruce. do you think that needs to be stronger? and p t or at least or doesn't need to be more better policed rather, and those countries need to sign up. we need to push them to sign up. frankly, i think the success of the n p t that the failure has been contained to a handful of countries and, and nf, this is the key here to this discussion today is a lot of non nuclear countries are watching though, to war and ukraine and to see how and whether the west will be sufficiently support

the ukraine to the extent where the ukrainians can prevail somehow in the battlefield and in the negotiations. and if we were to fail to do so, i figured lot of countries who currently are not a nuclear weapon i countries will consider what is considered the ultimate guarantee and which is nuclear weapons. so i think what we do here and in ukraine in fundamentally what is a conventional conflict, could have some very important repercussions, but about how the p t is holding or not. so that's my answer. it's kind of connect the n p t at to the geopolitical reality of today until is alexander as he's off. would you agree with that? well, i think and of the, the point about that, i think everybody knows that the ultimate guarantee is nuclear weapons. if you look at the bill, what happened to kathy, we're here and if

a great to give up is up and simultaneous later, he ended up in addition. so what, you know, the south korea, north korea, north where a well, and russia is also is so bold to your grade because it knows that natal certainly united states are not prepared to risk nuclear. we'll, we'll ukraine. so we are leaving and age when nuclear weapons are essentially the ultimate guarantee at which gives you superpower status. and the question of how to prevent it from spreading. busy server is an important one, but you know, much directory that's a big state such as seems it focused on israel opposed to the system to be iran as well. if they can, we will wire it because because basically is how it works. unfortunately, these days, nuclear weapons, as senior friend,

gives you extra steam advantage in terms of which impression is the key point above the regional wireless. if we're going to be there early point, is that the nuclear weapons logic and the regional threat. whereas in are awesome, threat is a global threat. cancel the $55.00 nuclear power service, nuclear power actually bridges to truck anywhere else in the world. which not said that the case with this but was working. but yeah, that's well, we already were living in the world well to it's going to the security of it and there's no didn't begging for it. the ultimate guarantee of security then is nuclear weapons. we all seem to be agreed on that it seems to be a doctrine. certainly you mentioned iran that i want to talk about iran. iran has got very close to being a threshold state as has been described. it hasn't said it has a nuclear weapons program has admitted having a nuclear program. ah,

the j c. p away or the iran nuclear deal effectively froze all those tensions and brought iran back into the world. but then that treaty was ripped up by prison. donald trump and the u. s. is finding it incredibly difficult to renegotiate that treaty sale. ah, this is a failure again of the west of america, because certainly, no one trusts the america will stick to it. still, that's the iranian way of thinking right now. why should we trust the u. s. if they're just going to rip up a deal. so why not get nuclear weapons? well, there is a growing chorus of voices in terror on that. feel that the only way for them to have the right leverage to be able to negotiate a sustained deal that they can trust with washington and with other world powers is to increase their status from having a very rich nuclear program to one of that of a nuclear threshold state,

or perhaps even getting a nuclear weapon. unfortunately, i would be extremely risky for the entire global security architecture because it would probably incite some sort of a military conflict in the region, particularly with israel. so we really do need to get washington and toronto agree to the roadmap that was already largely decided in march of this year. but that both sides are dragging their feet on. washington has to make up for the fact that it was indeed the u. s. abrogation of the deal under president trump that caused this trust deficit in the 1st place. iran continued to comply with the deal for an entire year before we gradually reducing its implementation. of course, we also now had president biden come into office and dragging his feet for a number of months. and then now as we're getting closer and closer to the us mid term elections, it seems that there isn't a political will power in the white house to get the jcp restoration over the

finish line. and i really call a president biden, who in october, before he came into the white house ro, a very compelling cnn op ed that said, there's a smarter way to be tough on iran, which really made clear argument for why it's so important to get the g p a back in place so that we are in a position to be able to think more about the other issues that we have within iran, with iran, for example, it's expanding ballistic missile over time. and i want to bring, you know, of the guests as well. brief, you've heard what sale has been talking about that we do need to bring iran back to negotiating table. american does seem to be dragging its feet. but what is the incentive for the west to try and force the americans back to negotiate table? is there any, is there any pressure anybody can put on the when i see you sent tv, so saw upon the americans to avoid as the previous speaker said regional coffee and possibly original stroke, nuclear conflict. and you have to read the recent us israel john declaration,

which is actually very clearly or where the u. s. is giving to the sake of israel, clear guarantees that it will not allow a nuclei iran for happening. and if that's a feed appear signal today that the u. s. east commit to not to have a nuclear weapon or state or in the region about form of his israel. but this is not mentioned in the joint corrosion. so i think this clarity here, or whether your message has be dry. he is feet that we not command, but if he clearly it has an interest in finding a diplomatic solution. and if he, the you is, are so trying to do so. a for alexander, sorry, or to loose the, you are these traditional negotiating bodies, nato example though these things, these institutions were formulated post cold war to try and freeze detentions that,

to some extent they have what we're, we're looking at a different landscape now. whether isn't actually a cold war, any more, are we moving towards the cold war again? she think well, i think, you know, you've come stuff in the same river twice. so what we talk will be something very different. and of course, the cold war was to be funded, fish's the wanted to follow us and it was also very intense ideological stand up between them in capitalism, against communism and so forth. so i think that's like to be repeated 1st of all, that would be much more central suppose in the world of china, russia, europe, and the american protection was being de ron of course, and other others. so we still going to be going to be just a lot, so be more more dispersed structures and politics and logically again, you know, there's something different in terms of nationalism and or re

follow. rather, i would say kind of going back to pre war scenario when you have several policy and trying to but which other, but you know, you could, nuclear weapons of course is the, is the key. and i would say that, you know, if the americans come to iran now and the really desperate need more oil on the market and the iran is the only and this place where with extra oil income, when there are no, it was burned, you can do it now i don't see how we're going to do it again, you run it will eventually those patients with it will be very, very great book. but also so the residence over a very dangerous stuff and. busy to make a declaration with israel that they were not allowed, but told him that they're going to go to war with israel with it with the wrong. it's really plausible in terms of americans,

by experience in iraq and so forth. iran as much, sorry. we were all running out, we are running out how to do when it comes, everybody else. there is another way of dealing with this and the americans that have actually done this to great effect in pakistan by supporting pakistan by giving it money by supporting its military. it's great, a whole bunch of other problems, a bog. somebody's kept the nuclear weapons in their silos or in spain. fabrice, do you think that's a, a good strategy? and the so given becky strikes, recall the permission of some nuclear technology to other countries including north korea. so i would, i think back his son was more a policy affair complete where the u. s. and no other choice, but just to, to basically embrace a pakistan nuclear status and try to contain the issue and make sure that the rightful to causeway in place to avoid a miscalculation and regional conflict. again,

visit the india. so i don't think that there's a clear model here to follow. i think we have to, to, to, to think it in itself. but, but i do think that iran has as much interest as the west to, to find a diplomatic solution in like the british because say they so, so you see an energy or supply dimension to it. and, and, but the be terms, obviously not going to help with the republicans fiercely against what is her, the hopa by doing this for, she's trying to go to the primitive from them. he ran just very quickly said hale in london, where stumbling in the dark of fabri says the actually we need a new strategy, but we don't know what that strategy is. is there anything that you think leads us out this darkness? is there a new strategy? absolutely. dialogue on the risk reduction and making sure that we deal with the fact that we have nuclear weapons. if you want to have nuclear, i think you have,

then you have to live with the responsibility and the consequences of them and explain to others how you will deal with the related challenges, right? so it's extremely important that all of the leaders of these key countries and come together and are able to make sure that they're correct. scaffolding is in place so that we mitigate crises and we mitigate conflict and war. so i think that the most important thing to do is to really have a deep reflection on how deterrence in arms control. not only have always complimented one another, but that they always had to compliment one another to get us through really difficult periods, like the cold war. we don't want to get into another deep cold war with russia. we want to try to mitigate the risks and learn from the past mistakes that we've made so that we can ensure the safety and survivability of the entire world. and you know, that's what it is at stake is really global peace and security because nuclear weapons have the ability to annihilate the entire existence of this planet. i want to thank

all our guests. so he'll a show of hobbies, party, and alexander. he took no one to thank you as well for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website out there a dot com. and for further discussion, go to a facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story. and you could also join the conversation on twitter . we are at a j inside, sorry for me and ron collin and the whole team head, i cannot, ah ah, around one percent of electricity globally is consumed by data centers,

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ah say that mm hm. and then international anti corruption excellence award. boat now for your hero. ah, your channel desert with me is that hill robin in doha. we return to our top story where hundreds of protest as in baghdad had stormed the iraqi parliament for a 2nd time this week. now they are protesting against the nomination. all.