he got caught up in the violence in munich new uncoil morning. and we are sad, but we will not stop protesting against monasco. we won the peacekeepers believe we have lost our family members. i. so we have to continue the fight and keep their memories alive before oh, eastern d r. c is rich in minerals, but it's also volatile. more than a 100 armed groups operate in the region. they have plundered villages, killed civilians, and forced more than 300000 people to leave their homes. many kimberly say they want to feel safe, and the peacekeepers are unable to protect them. catherine saw al jazeera authorities in western canada have told people to leave their homes because of an out of control wildfire. several planes and helicopters have been dispatched to tackle the carrying the os creek fire in the british columbia. residence of 25 homes have been told to leave more than 350 had been put on alert reco temperatures

and dry conditions of fuel fires in the province. ah, this is al jazeera and these are the top stories us how speak and nancy pelosi has arrived in taiwan. she says her visit shows america's unwavering commitment to supporting tie was democracy. lazy is the most senior us official to come to the self governing island in 25 years. beijing has condemned the visit and vow to launch what it's coiling. targeted military operations on vehicles have been seen for trolling the chinese port city. she meant she had returns, he has more from washington dc. we've had various guests in beijing on our end, the last few hours saying look, if it's become such a major issue now, it's very difficult with aging, not to react because it will be seen as, as weaknesses capitulation off again, some against an intervention in,

in the one china policy that the u. s. i'm china, a supposed to be respecting china said do not do not, policy should not visit. and in fact we just had this very interesting statement from the chinese ministry. foreign affairs, which is very explicitly the u. s. executive branch has the responsibility to stop such a visit. what we keep hearing, however, from the white house is, is it because of the separate branches of power? the white house have absolutely no say in where polo she goes. united states says it has killed the leader of arcadia in a drone strike in africa and capital cobble presidents. joe biden says intelligence officials attract. i'm an hour hearing to a home in the center of the city. the 1st ship for transporting ukrainian grain under an international broker deal has been cited off the surface coast a day after leaving the port of desa and their reports in

iraq that influential sheerly them a total of southern, sold his supporters to withdraw from the parliament. they took over apartment building on saturday, occupied at the head of the international atomic energy agency, says iran's nuclear program is moving fast and growing in ambition and incapacity. the warnings from raphael grossey come just a day off at the head of yvonne's atomic agency says his country has no plan to produce a nuclear bomb despite having technical capability. the finance new sanctions on entities involved in iran or the petrochemical trade on monday. but the headlines news continues here, an artist here that's after inside story ah

one miscalculation the world face is nuclear annihilation. the head of un wounds were at the most dangerous time since the cold war. nuclear armed nations calling for disarmament. but do they have the will to eliminate nuclear weapons? this is the inside story. ah. blow up to program on kim vanelle. the treaty on the non proliferation of nuclear weapons has been credited with keeping the world safe. nearly every country has signed the agreement known as the m p t, which aims to prevent the spread of nuclear weapons and promote the peaceful use of atomic technology. but the un secretary general warms the world, is just one dangerous miscalculation away from nuclear conflict. and toner.

quoterush says the threat is at its highest level since the end of the cold war. ashes invasion of ukraine has dramatically raised the stakes. their concerns about china's rapid uptake of nuclear weapons. the u. n. is hosting a conference to review ways to strengthen the treaty. and some nations believe to hold nuclear weapons including israel, india and pakistan are not attending. we'll bring in our guests in a moment at 1st, this report from kristen salumi at un headquarters in new york. the un secretary general kicked off the 10th review conference of the n p t by sounding the alarm today. humanity is just one muse. understanding one miscalculation away from nuclear at any lation. we have been extraordinary lucky so far, but lucky is not the strategy. his pessimism stands in sharp contrast to when russia in the united states signed on to the treaty in 1978. this is indeed an historic occasion. it was the height of the cold war and the goal was to prevent a nuclear conflict. nations of the world moved from a period of confrontation to

a period of negotiation and a period of lasting peace. as recently as january, the 5 permanent members of the un security council, who also happened to be the officially recognized nuclear weapons states, the united states, the united kingdom, russia, china, and france, all pledge not to further disseminate nuclear weapons. but a month later, russia invaded ukraine, while russia claims full compliance with the n p t. others consider that a threat, and it's engaged in reckless, dangerous nuclear saber rattling with its president warning that though supporting ukraine self defense, quote, risk and consequences such as you have never seen in your entire history. and then there's the iran nuclear deal agreed in 2015. it was heralded as a step toward reducing proliferation until the u. s. withdrew. now iran says it has

enough uranium to build a nuclear weapon. you don't want you to enter, you don't motor, move a little while few nations have gone as far as north korea and trying to build them anti nuclear campaign, or say other countries are expressing a new willingness to host them as a deterrent. that's what frightens valerie. a has a nuclear expert from ukraine attending the conference. so there is a widespread belief that nuclear weapons have prevented a big war. and it turned out not to be true signatories to the n p t. r. meant to gather every 5 years in an attempt to advance the goal of disarmament this year. thanks to global tensions. experts say there's little hope of action. kristin salumi al jazeera, the united nations, or the head of iran's atomic agency says his country has the ability to make a nuclear bomb, but doesn't plan to an advisor to iran. supreme leader made similar comments to al

jazeera last month. so by the us it's no secret that we have become a nuclear threshold states and this is a reality. it's also no secret that we have the technical capabilities required to manufacture a nuclear bomb. but we don't want that global watchdog say, despite a small decrease in the number of warheads. now, thea, the total nuclear arsenal is expected to grow in the next decade. just 9 countries hold the world's estimated stock pile of 12700 nuclear warheads. more than 90 percent of them belong to russia in the us. the 2 nations have been jointly retiring there. austin, on getting rid of a total of $3660.00 warheads, but many still remain. the u. s. has been scaling back, its non strategic nuclear weapons, which are shorter and range and have less explosive force while russia has largely kept its stockpile. ah,

let's bring our guests in vienna, robert kelly, a distinguished fellow at this dot com, international peace research institute. he's also a former director at the i e, a, the international atomic energy agency in the hall robbie our director at the center for security and policy research at the university of the hor, and also of the book, the blind eye us nonproliferation policy towards pakistan from ford to clinton and, and washington richard cupid, a senior fellow and director at partnerships and proliferation prevention at the stinson center. he's previously worked for the state department on counter proliferation everyone. welcome to you all. i'd like to start with you, robert kelly, and then a good tater says he's worried that crises with a nuclear undertones could escalate. how serious is the threat right now that nuclear weapons could actually be used? i don't see a very large between d. designated nuclear weapon states, the permanent 5, i would be very concerned about south asia and india and pakistan maybe urging some

of their reserve to use nuclear weapons. the concerns in ukraine right now, probably real, but i don't see them as, as rising to a very high level right now. ok, richard to fit this us extra state gave a big speech about how invested the u. s. is in lowering the threat of nuclear war, but do the main nuclear powers that we've talked about? do they actually want nuclear weapons eliminated or do they just want to stop others from having them? well, thank you for the invitation. i certainly believe there's an interest, at least in the part of the bio ministration, which you can see in president biden statements for the reducing the u. s. nuclear nuclear arsenal. but i think the question has always been how to do that without actually increasing the risk of nuclear conflicts in the process. i'm not so sure

about some of the other nuclear powers at this point in particularly given the russian federation. as you noticed, noted in your report, it's references to nuclear weapons in its current recent unprovoked threats. and there may be other countries that also have limited interest in nuclear disarmament at this time for me i work with so under secretary she is the un secretary general terraces were a miscalculation away, i would point and side with professor scott sagan, leaving that the more states with nuclear weapons, the greater the risk of accident, sabotage or miscalculation. so i think there is a, it's not necessarily a hypocritical position to be in to want to try to reduce your weapons stockpiles while preserving and making sure that you, you increase actually increase the risk of use of nuclear weapons in the process.

ok, robbie actor in the hall, you see the, the nonproliferation treaty is as, as a sort of gatekeeper with these, with these main players. can you just walk us through that? thank you so much for having me on the show. i've always been game this vision that in the nation non issue jean, can you best categorized as organized boxy, and we all leave it organized to offer. she is an inherent father of the conflicts international system where states behavior is inconsistent, the norms and principals. iterate, arguing doors, and the international system. we all understand is unpredictable and complex and the rules and norms of the system they constantly. josh, is a states national interest making it difficult to remain consistent in behavior. so one would argue that if these inconsistencies and behavior exist,

the new norm should be established. but seeing that or boss debora decade, no new norms have been established to deal with the inconsistency. and i believe that, you know, this organized the ball chrissy has been a development of popular nowadays. and there has been selected norms of nonproliferation that have been projected in on to offices. and we had, there's plenty of examples you know, that leader should be, that is in the interest of countryside, us and other allies, other allies of us to pick and choose country that benefit from the selected. can you give an example in the interest? yeah, so for example, you know, when in 2013 us where to go shading with it on in order to stop at the program or not having the ambition to develop nuclear weapons. it was signing a nuclear cooperation replaced. and it decided that it is going to provide,

you know, heavy fuel for, you know, reactive and new rate. and i'm at that point in time also had very additional human rights. there was no gene for nuclear security in play. yes. this elective case of liberation was happening while on the other hand, i want to throw it over to robert kelly to get your take on that is this organized hypocrisy by some of those main powers. i'm thinking about all costs that the deal between the u. s. a trailer in the u. k. to let us railey get nuclear power submarines we try, which china is obviously very concerned about you know, is there some pump chrissy going all there's nature boxy there and i think giving us over to lawyers and accountants as shown there. easy to get the wrong end of the stick. the problem right now is that australia has 6 small diesel submarines that they used to coastal defense and some where the french offered them replacements

for those same machines. what has happened is the u. s. u k way then they stab the french in the back and condense the australians that they need 8 nuclear submarines that are capable of launching missiles at the chinese main. where from the south china sea, that's the big problem. they're not nuclear missiles. they want to launch, but land attack missiles it, australia has turned its entire program upside down from coastal defense to attacking china. and if you don't think that's going to cause problems, just watch what's happening with china. they that you as a major threat and to the earlier come, i would like to say that russia has made some very threatening comments. donald trump made the same comments about his red button a couple of years ago. and the hell that he would rain down north korea, so lot of people can make big talk. but let's see if you're a real need just before we move on, mr. kelly from year, you know,

you told her about, you know, russia, i guess it's been accused of nuclear saber rattling, but then at the beginning of this, of this conference, these told happening president putin wrote, we proceed from the fact that it can be no win isn't a nuclear war and it should be, it should never be unleashed. so is that really nuclear saber rattling or is a rush, or i think the door for discussions. i think what we're missing here is there are several different scenarios we should be looking at. there's a buy model between, but mostly the americans in the russians who don't, whether it's are decades with arms control and then there are larger issues of the perm 5 and they're larger. and she's yet of the perm 5 plus states and capital employer items. but are not part of the mpg where you put north korean, that is difficult to say. so i think what we're thinking here is the bilateral issue between russia and the united states. you know, there's danger there,

but that, and it's complicated by nato, of course, because the other natal members are nuclear umbrella states, but that i think is where we might be concentrating. well, richard can fit in washington d. c. how has the war in ukraine changed the calculation around warfare and around u. k weapons and around nuclear deterrence? well, i think that's the impact is, is still to be determined. but the immediate situation is, i think it's hard in some positions in terms of those who are supporting the ban treaty, for example. but at the same time, it is moved some other states that has not been in prior in prior years, support of let's say, an extended nuclear umbrella. nate, mainly sweden and gentlemen, towards nato, which i think russia did not really anticipate or, or hope what happened as

a result of the 2nd invasion of ukraine. so i certainly think it does have some additional impacts. we personally, having worked at the united nations as well as state department, i would have it. i think it's going to be very difficult for us diplomats to trust their counterparts on the other side given what's instead. and in addition, i think, i think another thing that's another development is though, there may be some more serious discussion of, of the safety insecurity of nuclear power plants, which given that what's happened in ukraine. but it is 7 pillars idea that's been endorsed by the governors that came from director general grossi. i think those that, that's a, that's

a discussion that needs to be moved to the forefront. because we're, especially as we see an increase in interest in nuclear power around the world in order to address some of the issues related to climate change. i want to come back to you, robert after to talk a little bit more about this idea of hypocrisy. because when we talk about the main nuclear power, the u. s. u. k, russia, china, france. what about the other suspected nuclear powers? israel india, pakistan. why is it ok for them, i guess u. s. allies to, to have these weapons, but not there is a theory. say iran i can get the great question. and then also, you know, to deal with the gatekeeping. the guy has power. they have a, vide, you're writing the roles and to have them have and even, you know, with his writing in their involves it's better outside 3, nbc, and have you services. i considered to be illegitimate,

nuclear weapons they call nuclear possesses states, but not nuclear weapon states. so even with the electric on, you know, you're trying to control power and as to what it means to these countries. i believe that, you know, every site is right. for example, there's hardly any content that i have on you can enrich, you know, it drivers invisible. nobody talks about his eyes, you can read and nobody talks about, you know, what you're shopping the lease from cheating and you've never been treason. very all the other countries on board except for is right now you're backing it. and also with this idea that, you know, one country was there, thing, nuclear weapon has a different sense of rationality as compared to the b 5 who have as it, you know, they really be more rational with their use of nuclear weapons. and these images

are actually outside the b irrational when i do that, the ones from where do you think that stem from this idea that you know, the pin 5 would take rational decisions. and, you know, other nations would not. where does that come from? so it has all of this been, you know, a bought off the broader security studies studies nija there, you know, united states being the 1st entry to requiring generated this managers that you know, the other ones more responsible. they've new and any other new stake, you know it's, it's not going to be responsible. so what i do about nuclear responsibility somehow has been in generic. and now you know, the decade has come to the game, sort of the pay, the district of nuclear weapons and responsibility that, you know, i think it needs a new out there that needs it, needs new generation to base this forward and question as to how are you was

responsible when you are the ones who are the only country in the world who have used your ribbon on the country in the world who has had more number of accidents leading. if those accidents, you know, actually detonated, you know, the world would have seen those weapons that are needed. you have hi jacob, this new year. and these new countries have you in your accident, the history of it, and have learned that you know what is not to be done and i'm war. you know this once again, you safety and your, your g. yes, we are the ones who i want to think that i think all of this needs to be question and funding is thinking question that one rationality. you know, it's not to be to, to the other. you know, i just want to, i want to pass that over to robert kelly. was there something you wanted to add? add to that? i think 1st,

the 1st reason that one believes that there is some rationality in the weapons. lessing states is about 75 years of restraint and not using them. if we look at the end or the introduction that you can, someone said the large countries are down about 3000 weapons. i think they're more like 330000 weapons just been removed from the russian and american stockpiles. and if we look at what countries are growing their stockpiles today, the largest growth is in pakistan, and pakistan will surpass the kingdom and france fairly soon in being or the 4th largest weapon states, no matter what kind of label on them. so if you're worried about who's increasing their stockpiles and who's dictating militaristic lee? i'm sorry. media followed shortly by the p r k. yeah, i want to talk about north korea, because you can't really have a discussion about nuclear nonproliferation without talking about north korea. how does the, the d, p. ok, keeping nuclear weapons on the table,

showing them off launching tests. how does that impacts other nations and their ability or inability to reduce their stockpile? because if you have that, you know, clear threat on display, what does it do for the rest of the nonproliferation disarmament movement? and also, what does it mean to south korea? i think my 1st job to look at is one of the north brand stockpile is readable or not. they have trusted a number of weapons. most of those just, we can follow through their lineage and see what they were for. i don't think there thermonuclear test was, i was real in the sense of being weaponized with device. and there is no sign that those were hands ever been to the, to a missile. and just to see if the richie target, so the p r k, maybe accumulating reverends, but they're not human rating or weapon systems that can deliver a weapon to a target. ok, richard q, but how it's the fight against climate change. complicated efforts toward the

nuclear is ation because obviously energy is becoming more expensive. people are looking back towards nuclear options. so how is that kind of coloring the picture? well certainly i think a number of states have indicated that their real interest in expanding their nuclear power programs or in barking on a nuclear power program in the light of climate change, especially with small modular reactors, other new and advanced reactors systems. so in terms of, di, nuclear is ation. that's, that's an issue in terms of getting rid of nuclear weapons or preventing proliferation. it's more of, it's more of an issue of over time. you know, i think we've known from the beginning that if you learn a few things from nuclear power, they do have some application to potentially to developing programs. so the, the issue is always then, how do we promote the peaceful uses including nuclear power of nuclear energy

while restraining the, any idea of moving towards a weapon system. and that's largely 3 safeguards is what we comprehensive safeguards agreement, which is what the international community is relied on the past. so it does complicate things because it creates more states that will be in a position if they so choose to pursue a nuclear weapons program. they, however, that that's a big moving from being able to do it to choosing to do it is, is a very big step. i think there's a really interesting book recently by now rang called seeking the bomb that talks about hedging strategies. a number of states have moved to a point where they might be able to have a program, but they've so far chosen not to some others have actually maybe have more of as

chosen to do so, but not tested, not move beyond that. so there's, there's a range of strategies related here, but i think the most important one is for states to be able to enjoy the peaceful uses of nuclear nuclear energy and nuclear technologies. but making sure that they don't choose to pursue a nuclear weapons. ok what that is. i would note i part of our nuclear cooperation agreements. yeah. and push what you're saying. we're coming to the end of the program. we've got about 45 seconds left. so it's a very quick question to you. robin is the promise of nuclear that nonproliferation essentially unfair because it keeps the power in the hands of those countries that can exploit them. i think they have much to be grateful or to the entity that it has to have the numbers. no, i do believe that this bargain is and even the discussion draft on you would see

that russia and address that it has made is going to dominate. and it's again going to come back to you then, but you find this on the 5 can on this on the guys there is no broader beef in international security. if you just allow me a couple of seconds to you know, i'd reach out to me to make a comment about south asia being the nan flash wine and both of my family, you know, reference to it of 2019 lama volleyball prices between india and bosses son, rice or selma nations for the rest of her pocket, which did not use in nuclear and words in the in di crisis, in the literature, coming out from the rush state, the boxes on the be the 12 years. and so i think there is a change out there that you should be brought about. appreciate non you coming from the rest the day. don't really have the ownership of non use new countries like india, docusign, you know,

have you strain from using nuclear weapons and took several prices as much evidence to ok. we'll have to leave it there for time. thank you very much to all of i guess robert kelly robbie actor and richard, keep it and thank you for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website to l just are dot com. and for further discussion, go to our facebook page that facebook dot com forward slash a j inside story. you're going to join the conversation on twitter. we are a j inside story for me comes in al and whole thing here in the aah! long with

low place and saigon was say, the press retreated of the car about a media hub and vital vantage point. during the 1st truly televised war from the roof, we could see the vacuum at the american embassy, where the most iconic images of the conflict and vietnam were transmitted to the world. this was the front row seat to the final stages of the war saigon, caravel war hotels. on al jazeera, they watch us. they gather evidence with so can we and american cyber activists develops and tap used in brazil to monitor the police . we have more cameras than they do because where the people a bigger brother.