is no one mickey small, easy for us because you can have 15, medium gun movie to 15. we know we told us we don't teach the following because if anyone puts you to me about boss, for the old one, you're gone. feel ruled by the know so you come from so many to don't you lot of extra duty, so it integrate to the central bank, spent $60000000.00 showing up de leon. now it isn't stating how much the initiative will cost, what it will be hoping it will riley, the courtesy and the economy. patrice elgin's, eda, free town center legal ah . georgia al jazeera, i'm kim fidel. these, the top stories, humans exit general antonio terrace is due to meet ukraine's president vladimir zalinski and turkeys leader. friendship type ottawa on the talks, olivia will focus on grain exports and the safety of europe's largest nuclear power

plant to res mo, has more from livid at the other issue that has comment here. the possibility of finding a political solution to this ongoing war. the presence of the turkish presidency is crucial in a way he has tried to have a deal at least twice in the past, between ukrainian and russian. he has failed. this could be the 3rd time he met with resident or of lobby me to put in earlier this month. and so she and he suddenly coming here, hopefully as many people here of the possibly of talking peace. another strike has been reported on ukraine's 2nd largest city of kerchief. on wednesday, 7 people were killed and 16 injured in a russian missile attack on a dormitory. at least $21.00 people, including a prominent cleric, have been killed and a powerful explosion at a mosque in campbell. a hospital says it's treating at least 27 patients. no group has claimed responsibility. israel and turkey are restoring full diplomatic ties

of the years of strained relations. i'll be reappointing ambassadors, but turkey's foreign minister said it would not abandon its support for palestinian thursday marks $100.00 days and selves there are journalists, serene r. claire was killed in the occupied westbank. palestinians continue to demand justice and accountability for the correspondent known as the voice of palestine. the u. s. court has ordered 3 major pharmaceutical companies to pay $650000000.00 for the role of uplaid and the appeal a crisis. judge in ohio rule, c vs, walmart. walgreens were partially responsible because they over supplied addictive painkillers. at least 26 people have been killed and thousands injured and far as 5 in northeastern ontario. 55 has and helicopters are trying to contain nearly 45 or 350 people have been forced to leave their homes. well those the headlines and will continue here on out. there are, but up next all has inside story. so you think the lights which side is winning

chaos or control guy? what does the new forever proxy war mean for america and nato? as long as americans keep consuming prices are going to keep going up. why didn't joe biden see inflation comic? how did we get so much raw? the quizzical look. good us politics. the bottom line. hit the west to be nervous about turkey's close ties with russia. the 2 countries are showing up their cooperation as moscow faces isolation and sanctions. so as it wages war in ukraine, how will russia benefit from the partnership? this is inside story ah flow, welcome to the program. i'm kim danelle. russia and turkey are reported to have

agreed on the delivery of a 2nd batch of s $400.00 missile defense systems. turkey's decision in 2017 to purchase the russian air defense system was a sign of a deepening pragmatic get complicated relationship between presidents, friendship type one and vitamin putin. but the deal also created a rift between nato allies, turkey and the u. s. leaving washington to expel turkey from the f 355 digit program on going to continue to play what it calls a balancing act between russia on the one side and nature on the other. but this doesn't fit well with western countries that threatened to impose sanctions if turkey continues to help russia evade sanctions of its war on ukraine. or in july anchor broke a deal between ukraine and russia to allow ukrainian grain to be exported to turkey . but with weak prices rising because of the war and ukraine and russia's blockade of ukrainian black sea port leading humanitarian organizations, a warning of

a global hunger crisis. un 6 to general entering quoterush hailed the deal is a beacon of hope that would help avoid food shortages for millions of people. worldwide, turkey lies opposite russia and ukraine across the black sea and both country perceive it as a neutral mediator. so turkey hosted several rounds of talks with them aimed at halting the war in ukraine, the spot nato membership turkey rejected calls to boycott russia and instead posting and heard one say they want to deepen their ties. but turkey also has a good relationship with ukraine, even supplying turkish, made drones for use in the war. talks between ukraine and russia has since stole. ah, let's bring now guess maximilian hess is a fellow at the foreign policy research institute and an expert in eurasian affairs . he joins us from london meal at some out of sky is a specialist in the contemporary history of the middle east and

a research fellow at the institute of world economy and international relations. she joins us from moscow. finance gun is a former turkish diplomat and director of eden, a think tank that focuses on turkey's foreign security, economic and digital policy, and he joins us from istanbul. thank you very much for all of you for joining us here on inside story. i'd like to begin with, you need it some out of scale. how have russia and turkey gotten to this point of cooperation? this point of closeness all, they all began brockman, the brown, and the show and they been working like s h h a provided partnership and partially bay as it is still partially based on their lot on taller western dance was the beginning of the thousands. but russia, rookie, they were much expecting will come ration direct from the european

partners, but eventually they did not get dirty, did not try to watch it. membership and ross had did not get the level of political corporation. and so that was one of the basis they approach reparation. besides, to have a mixture of overlapping and call it charging and trust the luxury jane and to tell which allows for the call ration and the same time in 10 dialogue on the issues rich they might be confronted like from falling to team. there was a crisis never nations, one rush just down, but tricky a but off towards their nation is where we pair some extent and today they cannot

make relations remain very high and for the bus one include this is what jo, john, bob, nurse, and join trade on trade and they auto braking friends on the farm and then. ringback somebody in france on this foreign ron the machine, the corporation, despite the difference and the difficulty. ok, we'll be talking a little bit later on the show about the economic ties and how important they are to both parties. i don't trust you. maximilian has in london. how has the previous relationship between turkey and russia been up until now because they haven't always seen i to i have they no of course. so as i was just being discuss 7 years ago, the traditional regulations were at a. busy near the centrally supported opposite sides in the conflict in syria. and

then we had that incident with the turkish shooting data rushing jet frustrating over at aerospace, they called, and nato support. but didn't get nato to respond to the level that they wanted to construct. races were really changed quite markedly. however, the next year, when the ad on government, all but accused the united states of being behind the crew. that was what then wanted to make this very large, 400 deal. also to agree a deal with russian nuclear power and to build further supplies as a ring russian gas and miss undermined from europe point of view of the southern chord. our strategy, which was to have turkey be around to buy gas from missouri by john and ideally, further afield, as well as an alternate to russia. now we've seen the turkish economy in crisis for the last year, plus and inflation numbers that make those in the west palate comparison. but there seems to be no. busy change in approach, it certainly has carved itself out or rather strategically important region role in

the region and. busy ukraine particular of course, but also over the conflict and kind of in our media and as and in syria from the west teams to largely building and some of the other one will. i was the election next year. so it's continues to approach with parents. and so far we've seen that dr. one more into rushes arms. i think he has live on that. he's opportunistic, he's still, as you mentioned, selling drugs to ukraine. i'm having discussions to broker these grand shipments out. but so far it seems the west approaches is one of coming with sticks, although turkey is a nato ally, whereas rushes approach is one of kara sitting in somewhere to get it sanction money out our currency. so it seems to be alliance, some very mutual convenience of the finance organ. in istanbul, i want to get your take on turkey's response to the war in ukraine, kind of generally, because as we've said, it's been towing this line or managing this sort of balancing act.

yes, perhaps the best way to describe some arrives charges position is to state that church is being pro ukraine without the ty, russia. obviously this is a very difficult balancing act. but the way that turkey has so far, i think success will be steer. that's all the see in this direction was by and this was already alluded to. turkey s continue to supply on drugs, ukraine, which i've been on the battlefield policy, pietro, he has been going to go off russian aggressiveness. he has not recognized amex ational crimea. so on all those to go round church, he's on the same page as it's nato allies. it is also cause the truck, his strengths to be the passage of russian worships at the same time. churches

don't mean a lot not to have the sanctions on russia. the air corey door remains open to on the, on the west. west meant for contin twice a month. and there are you agreements that are being negotiated with russia. so this is the difficult balancing act. and if you basically take a step back and try to assess what this has to, i think this has enabled you to play a particularly metro role. first, the 1st phase of the conflict where true. ready was a facilitator for diplomatic negotiations. the to foreign ministers, ukrainian, or russian foreign ministers have met for the 1st time in turkey out of the war. then the diplomatic delegation. several mentioned turkey. of course not the dynamics or, or have passed the perceived that the dynamics of diplomacy,

but nonetheless, church. you also to connect to it all but, and succeeded in getting the grain deal. and this is, i think, important draw the line because it's a time when there's a for understandable reason, the boss not trust between russia and ukraine. these countries have actually negotiated with turkey. so the agreement that enabled a great deal were central bilateral agreements. russia in turkey and ukraine, trogie backed by the once. so russia and ukraine between themselves that have not included the make. and this way demonstrates the turkey careful balancing act towards russia. seen an organ before we move on from you. i want to ask you one more question. president ottawa last year? correct me if i'm wrong, said turkey was considering buying more joint. sorry. just considering more joint defense industry steps with russia including for fighter jets and for submarines.

do you see that going ahead? no, i don't think the news that took. ready up to, to get the 2nd batch of 400. ready essentially, russian does some formation. it is true that there is an agreement in place where turkey got the 1st batch of $400.00, with an option to buy the 2nd batch. but that option was never triggered. and i don't see that being triggered on the tour and circumstances where the relationship between russia and nature has become so ambiguous and one year because of your brain. and also to time winter seeking to get us support all white house and congress in order to more than nice chair fleet and get new f 16. so i don't see that happening in the near future. ok, i want to take that back to lead me to sort of sky or so it was a russian station use agency that reported that the 2 sides had agreed on that 2nd

batch of s 400 air defense systems. even if this is just a, talking about an option to buy the 2nd batch, how is that likely to go down with nato given the war and ukraine a well, that's probably one big rated by nature countries. however, a turkey also has some issues with or purchasing systems from p s because the us g j the issues with grease which has the term k 10. so the 1st a danger to grace and to be brief, control over some of the islands was an issue where the condition do not use. the u. s. provided assistance against greece and turkey refused. so probably this a grant to purchase a 2nd part of this ass on resistance body cross,

or whether it was not it can in any way you'd be just kind of been that bridge probably over some of it's nice especially because demonstrating that turkey has options it it's not it doesn't pass by the u. s. systems it can offer to buy something else. so it probably is part of the bargain and act by that it will be very honest. ok, maximilian has says talk about the economy. i believe turkey has been working with the kremlin on a parallel import scheme to bypass some with western sanctions. i should turkey be worried about secondary sanctions or what is sort of turkey's role in, you know, russian goods. you know, we have seen a standard go up quite a bit to russia, although that has been applied to dual use goods, which are the ones most directly impacted by sanctions. the real impact of sort of

that trade basis is whether russia is ultimately supplying 30 with the dollars that because of sanctions, you can't really use and which turkey really needs or whether they're trading rubles for which are 2 very currently unstable currencies. and we are experiencing some of the most significant inflation of any economy in the world over the last year. so the difference is, they're really matter if there's any dollar involvement, which of course, actually what took a lot more and russia, that would. ready vote the higher and target of un sanctions, but you know, to respond to some of the last ones on that as well. i think it's important understand the fundamental issues in the u. s. turkish and western target relationship more broadly are and issues that emanate out of the turkeys relationship with russia, their stressors, and aggregating aggregating factors. but and one is really seen as having undermined as countries democratic project and much of the west and having used migration and other tools. ready to try to extract concession for so that

relationship is really broken. for example, india, which is not a nato member, is also facing any of these questions buys a lot of russian arms. and also western ones has been by russian oil there. we've seen the u. s. congress say that it endorses a waiver on india's own purchase of s for hundreds. so if the diplomatic. busy research if it's been turkey and you guys say in the west could be restore. and i think you know, the issue of that 1st s or 100 per just could. you know, certainly alternately be put aside. but it really depends on what they do and how much they try to essentially extract the dollars out of that sanctions of asian and that basis. and if there's a lot of action there that washington doesn't like, it will provoke a very significant risk and secondary sexual scenario. again, president odo on is facing a very dia, economic situation. talking about inflation. i mean, he's also facing an upcoming election. how much is that factoring into his decision

making around increasing ties and economic cooperation potentially with russia quite a bit. because indeed, the church economy is having a difficult time, not only from the perspective of stability, rising impatience, but also the depletion of foreign reserves, which could down the road to a balance payment crisis. so the government must at all cost this type of scenario because then that will be basically, it will become impossible for our dawn to win to elections, turnkey goes to a balance of prices. and this is where russia comes in, turnkey is looking to get additional foreign exchange. it's reaching out to a number of regional countries, not just russia, but also the gulf region. but in the case of russia,

there certainly has been some work with, for instance tom, that's the investor and the rates are off. the 1st trends that will become appraisal in 2023 to be built on the mediterranean coast has decided to, to basic invest. ready that project by way or europe bonds, and this is something that scaled up the reserves of the church central bank. so there are some of these initiatives out there, but certainly this is very much related to the economy situation. the government needs to address. i think our policy there are seen and then come over to maximilian half. so we just wanted to add something. go ahead. you know, i think that's exactly true, this balance of payments crisis and whether it comes before the election are the real questions that turkey faces. i think from the western point of view,

in particular in the united states for which the bail out might be the wrong term, the forms of economic support that could ultimately. ready alleviate turkeys issues, much quicker swap lines. for example, for the circus central bank into us dollars would not be that costly for the west. the question is, is, are there concessions the western give to 30 on other. ready issues in the anyone government because about for the price of making and take an actual anti russian posture. i think that would and then a bass. it's a conversation on that basis. it's kind of enable western support, but so far how long has been shopping around the region even repairing its. ready ations with mom and been some odd and saudi arabia and to get soft lines from, from all over and now this russian and that's as well. i think the conversation to be more on from the west to that as well. but neela summer sky. we've talked a lot about how much turkey needs russia due to its struggling economy.

how much does russia need turkey given its, i guess, western isolation, i think at that moment, turkey has become more important. russia done, or because it all shop is a kind of the bridge that stuff and i brush it to the restaurant and it's important for us economy. it's of course not as you write friday, but it is one of the biggest months. so, and it's also one of the ways to be not paid by some students further on to perform the ration by less ratings. and so far they secured their later issues and to maintain dog ran the mental russians. a russian woman, the syria. sure, it's very on its whole forms for it's been something like

how much for the russians are probably somewhere from europe as it was such as aerospace was not sure. yeah, that's really online. that's important. lines of businesses, russia and russia and turkey and some other issues as well. so then again, how much of leverage to turkey now haul, do you think would the west, i mean, there was the issue of sweden and finland admission to nato corporation on counter terrorism on the migrant crisis. how much leverage this turkey hold and how do you think it might try to use that? well, i mean, deter, given charges, geographical position. the fact that it is a natal member, it's future in the west, despite having a number of difficult issues with united states. and would you

give to leverage because turkey is very close to and this is perhaps unfortunate to keep it, you know, it's, it's almost at the center of a number of different crises, syria, iran fight against, read the conversation, refugees and so on. so relations with russia, and therefore this is the geopolitical context where to appease the strategic importance that has been heightened if we had lived in a different world post 89 where democracy reached everywhere where, you know, history would have ended. perhaps 30 geostrategic imports has not been as high, but today, you know, obviously, you know, much more difficult word. and we've seen this witness this after the 24 for february with the war and ukraine. so in this context,

turkey remains any important nature allied despite its difficulties with its western partners, which seemed to also be cleaned be with the session bit sweeter than to mental where turkey for a while block the start of that procedure and eventually and then will you try parkside, you assign charge to sweden and send that to address turkeys concerns regarding the fight. ringback against terrorist and particular p k k terrace. those countries. ok, so turnkey using the able to leverage it's it's international position and just as you can relations with the west. ok, we're coming to the nearing the end of the program. i'd like to come back to you maximilian here because something we haven't talked about here, which of course is the factor is the fact that these 2 lead is these 2 presidents are big personalities. they're strong men. they want to at least projects the,

the image of, of being powerful persona is how has that suspected in here when we look at their relationship and how it's changing. i think that i, we certainly to some western audience. those terms are, you know, synonymous with strong men and not necessarily democratic. and i think that is really the perception and in many ways, the reality of the turkish regime and at least this is very strong out on the west deals. they don't agree with this behind the. busy to attempt, but that's really poison relations ever since, and i'm a jailing, a lot of deputies for turkey's opposition party. in particular one i'm trying to party as well as really driven issues and relations as well as turkey's increased role in the conflict with syria and elsewhere. so the west really seems to no

longer believe that everyone is a democrat business, famous, or brand that he wants, man, you know, democracy is a trained and you get off at the right point in the society. ready and almost essentially every major western publication when they're right about him. but at the same time, the approach to what to do about searching seems to be, well, we're looking at the poles and he's going to lose the next election. but if one doesn't believe that everyone democrats in the question is, is he let himself lose the next election? and so far, i'm not sure. policy makers have a good answer. all right, we're going to have to leave it there. thank you. see back to circulate them to one of our guests. maximilian has to meet at our sky again and thank you for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website out there, dot com. and to further discussion, go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story. you can also join the conversation on twitter. handle is act ha, inside story for me can been out and a whole team here and go ha,

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nuclear safety and.