is use the cap takes into account the cost of maintaining and operating energy networks and build in a profit margin. the energy supply is, but it's mainly dependent on wholesale energy prices, which are at unprecedented highs. well, health told we'll get a discounts many say it will not be enough to help the most vulnerable solution needs to be that when the emergency financial support, especially for those most in need, over and above the amount that's already been pledged by the government. and we need that to help stop more people falling into fuel poverty. and ideally towards this to help people out people who are already in feel policy. the challenge for many will be choosing whether to eat or heat their homes, a cost of living crisis that is hitting britons poorest families hardest. and that is set to work in the weeks and months to come with further big increases in gas prices guaranteed. so i'll go, i'll just, sarah, ah,

this is al jazeera, these, your top stories, the russian occupied czar parisian nuclear plant is back online. ukraine nuclear agency says it was briefly disconnected from the power grid of the fires damaged overhead electricity lines. that growing concerns over fighting near the facility, theresa bo house more from keith. what most people here are demanding right now is a 3rd party to visit that location to have access to treatment to know whether what type of damage has been going on. and that's why the united nations nuclear watch doc, the i a, is planning a visit in the next week. there we've been hearing right now. it's not clear yet how that visit is going to happen. on one side, the russians are saying that that visit should happen to moscow while the craniums are hope it is queens. i'm the united nation. i hoping that it will happen. so you crate. ukrainian officials say at least 25 people were killed in russian rocket

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let's take a look at a few examples from this year. we're gonna start in february activists in canada, cause millions of dollars in damage this year, and what it operations on a key work site for multi $1000000000.00 natural gas pipeline project. in march tire extinguishes launches in the united kingdom, this leaderless group aims to make owning su v's in cities impossible. and they have deflated thousands of vehicle tires around the world. one more example for you, august climate activists in the south of france, phil golf course holes with the manx to protest, the water bad exemption for golf greens amid a severe drought saying the economic madness is taking precedence over ecological reason. so in this episode of the stream could embracing climate sabotaged help save our planning. i know you've got thoughts, i get your comment section is live looking forward to seeing you in it exclaiming,

artifice! but far out comparing the pride out stripes, the crowds portez on much to calling attention to comments. to address the climate crisis. the government have made promise to talk to keep in arching. muslim, adaptive is, we need to take a step further to push. because the goldman does not give it to our campus. the problem is that taken that course of action with like we haven't the exact opposite effect, it would be a gift to the right wing, opponents of climate action. who would use it? leverage it for all it's worth to accelerate their creeping fascism make. the issue politically toxic for moderate voters, arrests, a generation of young climate activists, and so division in the climate movement itself. joining us to talk about their various degrees of activism when it comes to climate crisis. we have andreas and ms

. rena. charlotte get to have a few of you here in the stream. andrew, as we please introduce yourself to our global audience, tell them who you are. in the cat connection of today's episode, what do they need to know about very briefly? well, i'm in the rails, mom. i teach human ecology to learn university here in sweden. and i guess i'm on this show because i wrote a book on how to blow up a pipeline, learning to fight and the world on fire, which advocates for sabotage on property destruction as methods that the climate movement should experiment with. now that the situation is sol diner and i think what we're seeing right now are the 1st signs of the climate movement in the global north doing this. and i think more is coming. measuring. welcome to the strain. welcome back. i should say, it's always good to have you on board. we introduce yourself to the audience. remind them who you are, what you did. thank you. my name is esther. no, simon, i'm from sudan. on the chair of the un secretary general's youth advisory group on

climate change, and alkaline an activist for 10 years now. it's a happy and welcome charlotte. please say hello to stream view is around the world . tell them what you day. i am charlotte crab. i'm a climate justice activist and i'm an organizer on the free. jess spreads team. i'm wondering, charlotte, at what point do you abandon diplomacy, climate negotiation? talking to your nemesis, perhaps talking to policy makers who are not thinking about the future. and then say, i need to take direct action. when does that happen? i mean, i don't think of it as a binary. i don't think you need to abandon, you know, as the word that you chose, those other tactics and do something like property destruction. i think that we need a diversity of tactics. i think we need policy change. i think we need legal challenges . i think we need direct action. you know, i think i would be the most successful way is using

a variety of tactics yet. use in tactics, needs to do a cost benefit analysis. you always need to see or calculate how much benefit them going to get from using this taxes and how much the cost it goes to me and in the tactics cost more than the benefit to bring stand. it doesn't call that they can just mean that it's a failed trial address. yeah, no i, i totally agree with both of these points. and i think the, the purpose of sabotage would be to a mass greater striking force for the climate movement. and so far, we haven't really managed to inflict serious material costs on for phone capital, and that is what urgently needs to happen because the situation right now is that the more of the world burns, the more fossil fuels are poured on the fire. and it just cannot go on like this, and our governments have so far,

completely fade and raining in this virtue in the morning force that is banged on burning down the planet as fast as possible. and if the government's fail so conspicuously than someone else has to step in and that's what people around the world are beginning to do, take action of their own. but i agree that's not a question of abandoning other tactics. it's a question of trying to put greater pressure on government to do what is necessary because on their own relation of their own accord, they're clearly incapable of doing that. they have to be put if you have a government, if you have the government in the 1st place, it. sure. i think i think can and then it's just funny for me to talk about governments these days. so i'm just sure you said something which jumped at me, which was in fact, if i can fit damage on the fossil fuel industries. so if this in your mind a battle, i'm just looking at your book that came out in 2021. how to blow up

a pipeline. so it's almost like you're going to the front lines. you're not waiting any longer. the diplomacy and negotiations? no, because the, the un climate negotiations that have been going on for 3 decades have presided over a constant increase in c o. 2 emissions, i mean c o 2 emissions globally have just continued to balloon while these negotiations have been happening, year after year. so clearly that's a massive epic failure and we can't wait for that to just continue forever. it's just dragging out and not doing anything to limits, let alone abolish business as usual. so clearly we have to do something else. i mean, i don't see how you can avoid the conclusion that we have to try something more than what we've done so far. it hasn't been enough to wait for negotiators to petition to lobby to march, to demonstrate,

gently ask for politicians to listen to the science. we need to also do something more and that's, that's the face of the climate movement and the global north is and yeah, i'm, i'm not from saddam, i'm from one of the countries that is perpetrating climate injustice on people in countries like saddam or other parts of the global south, the, i'm active in europe, which is the original cradle of the fossil economy where this whole climate crime began. and here we do have governments and what they do in, for instance, norway, the neighboring country here, is that they're just a bidding encouraging. ever expanding extraction or for some shoes. and there is reason money. but matter of anything, andreas, the funny thing is most of the developed countries or the european countries, projects of oil and gas, are actually not happening in, in these countries where you have a legal system that might actually protect the activists who do this sabotaging or

blowing up the pipelines, it's happening in countries where activists can just be killed for a striking i in front of her, of a forest for example. so, so that's why when you talk about different tools ray, talk about doing more m, i. e. really think of different ways of more different, more as a, as you may say. and yes, diplomacy is being fading us as a generation and feeling that fitting the planet in actually a reaching the point that we want to reach. but if you use that to a wrong, it doesn't mean that the to have a problem. and if you plant a tree and dont irrigated, it doesn't mean that the, the tree itself or the saw itself is not proper. it means that you're not taking care of it and it does to remind all of you in the negotiations or the diplomacy,

or wherever is systems that people created. and people should change it as long as it's not working. instead of just trying something else. and i think as someone who's a mr. hill, this negotiation, israel, israel, it's, it's, yes, i excuse me for, for jumping in here. i want to bring charlotte into the conversation. charlotte, because when we talk about direct action, you know what that is like, and you have done it and they're handling repercussions. so this is the of the side of that. it's not just we are going to go out and we're going to slash tires, deflate tires, a fil. gov. gov courses with cement, to stop the privilege from using water. when the rest of us con, you've actually done that direct action. and then what happened to you? yeah, i think i have done different direct actions as part of the dakota access pipeline protest. i had locked myself to horizontal drill. that was boring under the des moines river, which is

a source of drinking water for $40000000.00 people. and i was trying to do the felony. i served a month in jail. i had to pay you guys $7000.00 in restitution and $65.00 per day in jail when i was in there. and you know, i'm here to speak on behalf of my friend just who is locked up for 8 years. and i really appreciate history, your comment about the very real risks people face with this, like it's exciting to her port those, you know, tactics and a i think acting outside of what has been working as important. but i think i'm here today to speak about the increased criminalization of water protectors, the increased criminalization of protesters and power c, especially in the u. s. you know, emerging of the oil and gas industry and corporate interests, as well as the government that's really pretty terrifying. to be honest, this is alicia. i always a little tape of jessica, written a check and you can tell him more about her story,

but i want audience to understand that she was doing direct action on a pipeline. and she ended up coming years right now. so i think 8 years in prison, filica mexico terrorism in the united states have a look at part of hanoi. in her statement, jessica wrote that after exhausting all avenues, the process for petitions for environmental impact statements and public comment periods to hunger strikes, marches, boy cods, and civil disobedience. and she took her actions as a last resort. biden's department of justice has declared jessica and domestic terrorist sentenced her to 8 years in prison and millions of dollars and finds paid to the pipeline company. her case is important, and it's because it's not unique laws specifically criminalizing environmental protests have now been passed to put on the table in most u. s. the moment anyone seriously challenges the corporations, freedom to push us closer to the class, a government uses the language of terrorism and they make you disappear. so jessica

anne and her friend charlotte, they sabotaged the cut dakota access pipeline. fire bombs. they used the soldiering unit and for that she serving 8 years in prison as a domestic terrorist. is that not a sobering thought in terms of how do we get people's attention? how do we save our planet? if the other side of that there's gel time. yeah. so just to clarify, i was not the other person. jessica acted with another woman and that was not me. the actions i spoke about were separate. oh, but it is real and jessica wesley bought the domestic terrorist and that increased her sentence 5 whole and she's just served, finished a year in prison and she has an 8 year sentence. she has to pay $3200000.00 in restitution to energy transfer partners. the company that owns the dakota. i shall,

i shall eat. you just said that like, it's like it's no big deal over $3000000.00. how doesn't normal everyday individual come up with $3000000.00? that's a great question. i mean i definitely don't have an answer to that and i think it really speaks to. busy you know, how high the, you know, the fossil fuel industry is increasing the risk to try to intimidate activists from acting. and, you know, injustice case. this isn't random. we know exactly why this happens, that this would agree, motivated in 201784 congress members. they, for democrats, 80 republicans wrote a letter to then attorney general jeff sessions asking specifically in the wake of standing protests that people who tamper or impede with cross if your infrastructure be prosecuted as domestic terrorist. they specifically mention

punctured and val, because this was also trying to target the valve turner's. and then just because prosecution or label as it did, i, victor is an exact answer to this letter. so we know exactly why this happened. and those $84.00 congress members who wrote this letter, they received $336000000.00 from the fossil fuel industry. so we know that the fossil fuel industry is just trying to protect their assets and the government's doing committing to do. and i think that, yeah, the important thing to point out here is that it's fundamentally bizarre. the jessica retina check who never harmed an individual, never injured any one, never killed anyone, is labeled a terrorist when in fact, the extraction and combustion of fossil fuels are killing people on a daily basis, indiscriminately killing civilians, particularly and the global south. this we know for

a fact if there's anything here that can be classified as terrorism, it should be large scale for from fuel instruction and combustion. obviously the law, those are totally skewed and twisted. so the, the, the, the presumed terrorist hair is the one who tries to destroy the machinery that destroys lives and ecosystems around the planet. so now these, the andrea said as got that, so that's your moral stance on you know, why this direct action is necessary. but if you have a young woman who is now serving time as a domestic terrorist does not, is not a chilling effect and makes you think twice about how do we go about getting people's attention in a productive way without landing ourselves in prison. yes. and the 1st thing we, we should think about is how do we accomplish the most without ending up in jay?

how do we avoid, how do you repression? how do you? yeah, well, you should ask the 20 people who destroyed bath coastal gas land construction side . and british columbia that you started off with because as far as i know, they all evaded arrest, which i think is a great thing. and you can go and, and destroy a site where a pipeline is being constructed and just get away with it. likewise, i don't know anyone in the tire extinguishers who's been arrested and i think this is a step away from the civil disobedience protocol of extinction. rebellion and other groups have made it a virtue to get a sense. yeah, yeah, the heart of our action is to almost throw ourselves into the arms of the police and end up in jail. i shot i've had enough. what was that? was that what you were doing because you got topping and you did some jail time. did you, can you a court i mean yes and you know, yeah, nobody wants to hear you and we don't change a big piece of equipment so you would definitely get caught. that that was not an

engine is. yeah. i mean, i think this speaks to the bigger issue of an escalation of tactics. you know, in that case we and jessica had, you know, jessica ran with the le coats a youth during the permitting process of the army corps of engineers. and you know, i've been part of so many projects where like we submit comments as part of the i statement we, you know, whole i a statement environmental impact statements. that's part of the primitive process i'm, you know, and so you can do it a civil disobedience outside of a place just did hunger strikes. and so there is like this escalation where you're doing things. and i think the role of direct action in this case can be to highlight an injustice that's taking place in a way that traditional media, such as like an op ed or writing it just can't, you know. and so i think highlighting how high the stakes are, is something that direct action, you know, can really bring to

a situation. we bringing a new slicing, tackle the social new voice that an old very well known face. leslie james, pick them and he's a former spokesperson for the earth liberation front. back in a day, they did a lot of sabotage. and this is leslie explaining what the purpose is. what happens when you'll successfully completing a sabotaged, sabotaged mission avenue. it creates this scenario where there is no consequence for bad behavior in a society where there is no consequence for bad behavior. a corporation can go and cut down a forest and pollute and what have you. and at the worst, they get to find that they have no problem paying and they just go on with business as usual. but after the earth liberation front up on the scene, um, you know, they have to stop and think about is what i'm doing. gonna upset these environmental is so much that i'm going to be the next target of a large scale arson attack. well, my company build burned down,

and if they are the target of that kind of thing, well, that's going to cost them some, several things. it's cost them some money and some time and some anguish and, and hopefully cause them to, you know, rethink what the, what the, what it is that they're doing. are we seeing a different kind of climate saburd tell. wow. and dias, friend 2 or 3 decades ago. yeah, yeah, i think the earth liberation front that was at its peak in the 1990, did not have a specific focus on climate because this was environmentalism before climate breakdown. have set in. now we have a more strategic or i think precision in the sense that we're going after primarily fossil fuel infrastructure and luxury emissions along the lines of driving s u, v in rich neighborhoods. and i think this is more appropriate for the current

moment because the climate crisis really is. i mean obviously it's just one part of much broader ecological crosses, but it is the most urgent problem that we're facing. and then i expect that we'll or, and i hope that we can continue to have that kind of precision rather than a kind of, you know, general assault on industrial civilization or something like, i'm sure i'm going to bring in a new voice, sal lufkin to respond this is to mom and she is in india. she spoke just a few hours ago about a different approach to changing people's ability to act and mediately during the climate crisis has yes, the majority of our population is just struggling to get, but they're not bad off. the guys sees that are affecting them so far. a lot of guys are organizations, it's motor board gate, taking the awareness to communities and working on mine so shifted adopt ation for

them. instead of nearly targeting the authorities under corporate, which is a much larger boxes and it is more dangerous. charlotte thought, i mean, i appreciate what come on i said, but in terms of i like what leslie brought in in terms of accountability for these corporations. and like with the case of the dakota access pipeline, a federal judge came to rule that it operating a legally. so the permitting, the permits that the credit access pipeline had to go through are illegal and it's operating now it weeks multiple times. within its 1st 6 months of operation. it's over 2000000 gallons of as drilling made into christine wetlands. and that i think is the catch 22 of living in extractive and colonial system, where the only way to stop in the regally built pipeline in a legal way is to let it be built. and then after the fact realize that it wasn't

legal to begin it, but at that point it's already built. and so i think, you know, finding ways for accountability for these corporations is important and also not just the corporation for also the court. and with just that, we realized in the appeal process with her was we were challenging the domestic terrorism label. and as part of the appeal process and the appeal was denied. the judge is basically in their, in their decision said that we believe tested domestic terrorist was a harmless error. and so what, what the lesson that you, we learn as an international audience, listening to jesse story is that, isn't it just that the repercussions us? oh, huge yes i sims are huge, but it's also, i think for us this is much bigger than just, you know, and that's why we're worried about emerging of the fossil fuel industry and the

government. this is about a threat. i definitely. yeah, this is the kind of problem that every movement in history that has challenged, vested interests has had to face, namely a state apparatus that is totally beholden to. these vested interests. and with that comes the problem of repression that you end up in jail. but i don't know of any movement in history that has struggled for emancipation and has totally evaded the problem of imprisonment or considerably worse. and clearly this is the case in congress on the global south to a much greater degree than in the north because levels of repression are much higher in countries such as india, south africa, not to mention that come to some latin america were environmental activists are killed on virtue a daily basis and i think the coming from india made an important point here that the at nist frame from saddam made as well. and that is that every choice of

tactics has to be adapted to the local concrete circumstances. and i'm certainly not arguing that everyone everywhere should do only sabotage, and that is the magical bullet that will bring us to a bit of address. it's been interesting listening to your perspective, charlotte as well, initially. thank you so much for being part of this conversation. so many interesting thoughts here on you cheap as well. and lean says the last thing i have is people don't even believe in climate change and don't care what's happening on the other side of the well. and that is shameful. and so watching, i see you next time take ah, what happens in new york has implications all around the world. it's the home of the united nations. it's a center of international finance, international culture. to make these stories resonate requires talking to everyday

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