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jokes in western grade. so i wanted to choice our country someone's needs to rebuild. ah hi on for me. ok to day on the street. what happens when climate activists take direct action? let's take a look at a few examples from this year. we're gonna start in february activists in canada cause a millions of dollars in damage this year and what it operations on a key work site for multi $1000000000.00 natural gas pipeline project. in march tire extinguishes launches in the united kingdom, this leaderless group aims to make owning su vees in cities impossible. and they have deflated thousands of vehicle tires around the world. one more example for you, august climate activists in the south of france,

phil golf course holes with the manx to protest, a water bad exemption for golf greens, amid a severe drought saying the economic madness is taking precedence over ecological reason. so in this episode of the stream could embracing climate sabotaged help save our planet? i know you've got thoughts. i get your comment section is live looking forward to seeing you in it as clement activists. but for our company and no credit stripes, the crowds prefers on march to called in addition to comments for joseph climate crisis. the government have made promise to talk to keep in your j maslanka davis. we need to take a step further to push because the government has not given it to our contents. the problem is that taken that course of action would likely haven't the exact opposite effect. it would be a gift to the right wing,

opponents of climate action who would use it, leverage it for all its worth to accelerate their creeping fascism make. the issue politically toxic from irish voters, arrests, a generation of young climate activists. and so division in the climate movement itself. joining us to talk about their various degrees of activism when it comes to climate crisis. we have andreas and ms. rena. charlotte get to have a fee of you in the stream. and as we please introduce yourself to our global audience, tell them who you are in the cap connection of today's episode. what do they need to know about you very briefly? well, i'm a realtor, mom. i teach human ecology, i learned university here in sweden, and i guess i'm on this show because i wrote a book on how to blow up a pipeline. learning to fight in the world on fire, which advocates for sabotage and property destruction of methods that the climate movement should experiment with. now that the situation is so dire and i think what

we're seeing right now are the 1st signs of the climate movement in the global north doing this. and i think more is coming. measuring. welcome to the strain, welcome back. i should say, it's always good to have you on board. we introduce yourself to the audience. remind them who you are. what you did. thank you. my name is ester know, simon, i'm from sedan on the chair of the un secretary general's truth advise you group on climate change, an outline activist for 10 years now. it's a happy and welcome charlotte. please say hello to stream viewers around the world . tell them what you do. i am charlotte crab. i'm a climate justice activist, and i'm an organizer on the free. jess spreads team. i'm wondering, charlotte, at what point do you abandon diplomacy, climate negotiation? talking to your nemesis, perhaps talking to policy makers who are not thinking about the future and then say i need to take direct action. when does that happen?

i mean, i don't think of it as a binary. i don't think you need to abandon, you know, as the word that you chose, those other tactics and do something like property destruction. i think that we need a diversity of tactics. i think we need policy change. i think we need legal challenges . i think we need direct action. you know, i think i would be the most successful way is using a variety of tactics yet, using tactics needs to do a cost benefit analysis. you always need to see or calculate how much benefit them going to get from using this taxes and how much the cost it goes to me. and if the tactics cost more than the benefit to bring step, it doesn't call that they can just mean that it's a failed trial address. yeah, no i, i totally agree with both of these points. and i think the, the purpose of sabotage would be to a mass greater striking force for the climate movement. and so far,

we haven't really managed to inflict serious material costs on false, on capital. and that is what urgently needs to happen because the situation right now is that the more of the world burns, the more fossil fuels are poured on the fire and it just cannot go on like this. and our governments have so far, completely failed and raining in this virtually the moaning force that is banged on burning down the planet as fast as possible. and if governments fail so conspicuously than someone else has to step in and that's what people around the world are beginning to do, take action of their own. but i agree that's not a question of abandoning other tactics. it's the question of trying to put greater pressure on government to do what is necessary because on their own relation of their own accord, they're clearly incapable of doing that. they have to be put if you have a government, if you have the government in the 1st place,

it. sure. i think i think carrying faster than just funding for me to talk about governments these days. so i'm just sure you said something which contact me which was inflict, again, fit damage on the fossil fuel industries. so is this in your mind a battle? i'm just looking at your book that came out in 2021. how to blow up a pipeline. so it's almost like you're going to the front lines. you're not waiting any longer. the diplomacy and negotiations? no, because the, the un climate negotiations that have been going on for 3 decades have presided over a constant increase in c o. 2 emissions. i mean, c o 2 emissions globally have just continued to balloon while these negotiations have been happening, year after year. so clearly that's a massive epic failure and we can't wait for that to just continue forever.

it's just dragging out and not doing anything to limit. let alone abolish business as usual. so clearly we have to do something else. i mean, i don't see how you can avoid the conclusion that we have to try something more than what we have done so far. it hasn't been enough to wait for negotiators to petition to lobby to march, to demonstrate, to gently ask for politicians to listen to the science. we need to also do something more and that's, that's the face of the climate movement in the global north is and yeah, i'm, i'm not from saddam, i'm from one of the countries that is perpetrating climate injustice on people in countries like saddam or other parts of the global south, the, i'm active in europe, which is the original cradle of the fossil economy where this whole climate crime began. and here we do have governments and what they do in, for instance, norway, the neighboring country here, is that they're just a bidding encouraging. ever expanding extraction of fossil fuels and there

is reason money, but money thing, andreas. the funny thing is most of the developed countries or the european countries, projects of oil and gas are actually not happening in, in these countries where you have a legal system that might actually protect the activists who do this sabotaging or blowing up the pipelines. it's happening in countries where activists can just be killed for a striking i in front of our, of our a poorest for example. so, so that's why when you talk about different tools, re joke about doing more. and i really think of different ways of more different, more as a, as you may say. and yes, diplomacy is being fading us as a generation and feeling that fitting the planet in actually

a reaching the point that we want to reach. but if you use the to a wrong, it doesn't mean that the to have a problem. and if you are clunk a tree and dont irrigated, it doesn't mean that the, the tree itself or the site itself is not proper. it means that you're not taking care of it and it just to remind all of you in the negotiations or the diplomacy or wherever is systems that people carry. ated and people should change it as long as it's not working. instead of just trying something else. and i think as someone who's a mission, this negotiation, israel, israel, it's, it's, yes, i excuse me for jumping in here. i want to bring charlotte into the conversation. charlotte, because when we talk about direct action, you know what that is like, and you have done it and they're handling repercussions. so this is the of the side of that. it's not just we are going to go out and we're going to slash tires, deflate tires, a fil. gov. gov courses with cement to stop the privilege from using water when the

rest of us can, you've actually done that direct action. and then what happened to you? yeah, i think i have done different direct actions as part of the dakota axis pipeline protest. i had locked myself to horizontal drill. that was boring under the des moines river, which is a source of drinking water for $40000000.00 people. and i was trying to do the felony. i served a month in jail. i had to pay you guys $7000.00 in restitution and $65.00 per day in jail. and i was in there and you know, i'm here to speak on behalf of my friend just who is locked up for 8 years. and i really appreciate history, your comment about the very real risks people face with this, like it's exciting to her port those, you know, tactics and i think acting outside of what has been working as important. but i

think i'm here today to speak about the increased criminalization of water protector is the increased criminalization of protesters and how are seen, especially in the u. s. you know, emerging of the oil and gas industry and corporate interests, as well as the government. that's really pretty terrifying. to be honest. this is alicia out. he's a little clip of jessica, written a check and you can tell him more about her story. but i want audience to understand that she was doing direct action on a pipeline. and she ended up coming. he is right now, so i think it is imprisoned. filica mexican heroism in the united states. it's have a look at part of his toy. in her statement, jessica wrote that after exhausting all avenues, the process for petitions for environmental impact statements and public comment periods to hunger strikes, marches, boycotts and civil disobedience. and she took her actions as the last resort.

biden's department of justice has declared jessica and domestic terrorist sentenced her to 8 years in prison and millions of dollars and finds paid to the pipeline company. her case is important, and it's because it's not unique laws specifically criminalizing environmental protests have now been passed to put on the table in most u. s. the moment anyone seriously challenges the corporations, freedom to push us closer to the class, a government uses the language of terrorism and they make you disappear. so jessica anne and her friend charlotte, they sabotaged the cut dakota access pipeline. fire bombs. they used the soldiering unit and for that she serving 8 years in prison as a domestic terrorist. is that not a sobering thought in terms of how do we get people's attention? how do we save our planet? if the other side of that there's gel time. yeah, yeah, so just to clarify, i was not the other person. jessica acted with another woman and that was not me.

the actions i spoke about were separate um, but it is real and jessica was labeled the domestic terrorist and that increased her sentence fivefold. and she's just served finished a year in prison, and she has an 8 year sentence. she has to pay $3200000.00 in restitution to energy transfer partners. the company that owns the dakota shy, shall you just said that like it's like it's no big deal over $3000000.00. how doesn't normal everyday individual come up with $3000000.00? that's a great question. i mean i definitely don't have an answer to that and i think it really speaks to. busy you know, how high the, you know, the foster care industry is increasing the risk to try to intimidate activists from acting. and, you know, injustice case. this isn't random. we know exactly why this happens to clean,

motivated in 201784 congress members. they, for democrats, 80 republicans wrote a letter to then attorney general jeff sessions, asking specifically in the way of standing protests that people who tamper or impede with process your infrastructure, be prosecuted as domestic terrorist. they specifically mention punctured and val, because this is also trying to target the valve turner is. and then just because prosecution or label as a domestic terror is an exact answer to this letter. so we know exactly why this happened. and those $84.00 congress members who wrote this letter, they received $336000000.00 from the fossil fuel industry. so we know that the fossil fuel industry is just trying to protect their assets and the government committing to do that. and i think that, yeah, the important thing to point out here is that it's fundamentally bizarre,

the jessica resonant check, who never harmed an individual, never injured anyone, never killed anyone, is labeled a terrorist when in fact, the extraction and combustion of fossil fuels are killing people on a daily basis indiscriminately killing civilians, particularly in the global south. this we know for a fact if there's anything here that can be classified as terrorism, it should be large scale for some fuel instruction and combustion. obviously the law, those are totally skewed and twisted. so the, the, the, the presumed terrorist hair is the one who tries to destroy the machinery that destroys lives and ecosystems around the planet. so now these for the andrea said as got that, so that's your moral stance on you know why this direct action is necessary. but if

you have a young woman who is now serving time as a domestic terrorist does not, is not a chilling effect and makes you think twice about how do we go about getting people's attention in a productive way without planning ourselves in prison. yes. and the 1st thing we, we should think about is how do we accomplish the most without ending up in jay? how do we avoid, how do you repression? how do you? yeah, well, you should ask the 20 people who destroyed bath coastal gas land construction side . and british columbia that you started off with because as far as i know, they all evaded arrest, which i think is a great thing. and you can go and, and destroy a site where a pipeline is being constructed and just get away with it. likewise, i don't know anyone in the tire extinguishers who's been arrested and i think this is a step away from the civil disobedience protocol of extinction. rebellion and other groups have made it a virtue to get rid of them. yeah,

yeah. the heart of our action is to almost throw ourselves into the arms of the police and end up in jail. i shot i've had enough. was that was that what you were doing because you got topping and you did some jail time. did you, can you a court i mean yes and you know, yeah, nobody wants the or, you know, change a big piece of equipment so you would definitely gonna get caught. that was not an engine is. yeah. i mean, i think this speaks to the bigger issue of an escalation of tactics. you know, in that case we and jessica had, you know, jessica ran with the le coats a youth during the permitting process of the army corps of engineers. and you know, i've been part of so many projects for like we submit comments as part of the i statement we, you know, whole i a statement environmental impact statements. that's part of the primitive process i'm, you know, and so you can do it

a civil disobedience outside of a place just did hunger strikes. and so there is like this escalation where you're doing things. and i think the role of direct action in this case can be to highlight an injustice that's taking place in a way that traditional media, such as like an op ed or writing it just can't, you know. and so i think highlighting how high the stakes are, is something that direct action, you know, can really bring to a situation. we bringing a new voice in tackle the social new voice that an old very well known face. leslie james, pick them in. he's a former spokesperson for the earth liberation front. back in a day, they did a lot of sabotage. and this is leslie explaining what the purpose is. what happens when you'll successfully completing a sabotaged sabotaged mission? have a listen. it creates the scenario where there is no consequence for bad behavior in a society where there is no consequence for bad behavior. a corporation can go and

cut down a forest and pollute and what have you. and at the worst, they get a find that they have no problem paying. and they just go on with business as usual . but after the earth liberation front up on the scene, thumb, you know, they have to stop and think about is what i'm doing. gonna upset these environmentalists so much that i'm going to be the next target of a large scale arson attack. well, my company will burned down and if they are the target of that kind of thing, well, that's going to cost them some, several things. it cost them some money and some time and some anguish and hopefully cause them to, you know, rethink what the, what the, what it is that they're doing always sing a different kind of climate saburd till now and i s friend 2 or 3 decades ago. yeah. yeah, i think the earth liberation front that was at its peak in the 9th ninety's, did not have a specific focus on climate because this was environmentalism before

climate breakdown. have set in. now we have a more strategic or i think precision in the sense that we're going asked are primarily fossil fuel infrastructure and luxury emissions along the lines of driving su these in rich neighborhoods. and i think this is more appropriate for the current moment because the climate crisis really is. i mean obviously it's just one part of much broader ecological crosses, but it is the most urgent problem that we're facing. and then i expect that we'll or, and i hope that we can continue to have that kind of precision rather than a kind of, you know, general assault on industrial civilization or something. i'm sure i'm going to bring in a new voice, allan lofton to respond. this is to mom and she is in india. she spoke just

a few hours ago about a different approach to changing people's ability to act and mediately during the kind of crisis has yes. the majority of about police, it is just struggling to get, but they're not bad off. the guy sees that are affecting them so far. a lot of guys just organizations, it's motor board gate begin this to these communities and working on mindset, shifted obligation for them instead of really targeting the automative use under cobra, which is a much larger boxes and is more dances. charlotte thought, i mean, i appreciate what come on i said, but in terms of i like what leslie brought in in terms of accountability for these corporations. and like with the case of the dakota access pipeline, a federal judge came to rule that it's operating illegally. so the permitting, the permits that the crate access pipeline had to go through are illegal and it's

operating now. it leaked multiple times within its 1st 6 months of operation. it's the over 2000000 gallons of it's really made into christine wetlands. and that i think is the catch 22 of living in extractive and colonial system where the only way to stop and illegally built pipeline in a legal way is to let it be built. and then after the fact realize that it wasn't legal to begin it, but at that point it's already built. and so i think, you know, finding ways for accountability for these corporations is important. and also not just the corporations, but also the courts. and with just that, we realized in the appeal process with her was we were challenging the domestic terrorism label. and as part of the appeal process and the appeal was denied. the judge is basically in their, to, in their decision said that we believe tested domestic terrace was

a harmless error. and so what's, what's our lesson that you, we learn as an international audience, listening to jesse story is that, isn't it just that the repercussions us? oh, huge. yes i sims are huge, but it's also, i think, for us this is much bigger than just, you know, and that's why we're worried about emerging of the fossil fuel industry and the government. this is about a threat. i think i'm jessie and i definitely, yeah, this is the kind of program that every movement in history that has challenged, vested interests has had to face, namely, a state apparatus that is totally beholden to. these vested interests. and without comes the problem of repression that you end up in jail. but i don't know of any movement in history that has struggled for emancipation and has totally evaded the problem of imprisonment or considerably worse. and clearly this is

the case in congress on the global south to a much greater degree than in the north because levels of repression are much higher in countries such as india, south africa, not to mention the countries i'm not in america were environmental activists are killed the on virtue a daily basis. and i think the coming from india made an important point here that the necessary from saddam made as well. and that is that every choice of tactics has to be adapted to the local concrete circumstances. and i'm certainly not arguing that everyone everywhere should do only sabotage, and that is the magical bullet that will bring us to a world i'm. it's the bit. it's been interesting listening to our perspective, charlotte as well, initially. thank you so much for being part of this conversation. so many interesting thoughts here on you cheap as well. actually says the last thing i have is people that don't even believe in climate change and don't care what's happening on the other side of the world. and that is shameful, and so watching,

i see you next time. ah, on counting the coal spock hassan is suffering from destructive floods. what will it cost the already struggling economy? they all take region is rich in natural resources that have was global warming, impacting economic potential innovation hub opens income housing costs on al jazeera. the latest news, as it breaks. doctors here tell us that they're desperate to get more antibiotics and other medical supplies between those who are injured with detailed coverage for pe walker under you. and young's approach to frontrunner of their for on here, got demand for pay. i rent from around the world, given as the new king to pots i'm about to hear. the warriors continued to sing his brave and the lawyer the loyalty. this is architect by

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