he also said that the company has a very black culture when it comes to the possibility of foreign spies, the some of their employees. i'm reminded of one conversation with an executive. when i said i am confident that we have before an agent and their response was, well, since we already have one, what does it matter if we have more? let's keep growing the office. one of the other alarm and allegations from zacko is that thousands of twitter employees have access to all of the sensitive information that they don't need to do their jobs. and they can't track down which employees are looking at which accounts you said, because they don't want to spare the expense or the effort. now, the ceo of twitter, which is denied all of these allegations, was asked to testify before the said he said he couldn't because of ongoing litigation with the law much because you know, you must said you wanted to buy twitter and it since tried to back out but just after the hearing, wrapped up shareholder said they will agree to the deal and they say they want must to buy it. next time we hear from that go,

we'll probably be in that lawsuit because twitter says must have to go through the deal. and the judge said that must can use testimony from zacko to try and get out of it. i have a great look at our main stories this our queen elizabeth the 2nd has finished her final journey back to london where her body has returned to buckingham palace. traffic came to a standstill through much of the british capital as her remains were, as ported, the new king charles a 3rd and his wife camille, over at the palace to receive the coffin. ms. parker brings us more now. but people have been stood here for hours on end of the pouring rain for this moment. a deeply moving, of course, i am. queen elizabeth lost return to the capital city where she was born in

1926 to repel us that she often regarded robot shows the office or the ra residences from her eyes were often seen regard regarded as her home for a famous for saw the represent very much the more the key as opposed to an individual monarch or the represents the 1000 year old british monarchy. as opposed to just simply queen elizabeth warned the king charles bird queen had been lying rest in saint giles cathedral in the scottish capital, edinburgh. thousands of mourners had the chance to file past her coffin and pay their final respect before it was then flying to london. the earlier king charles made his 1st visit to northern ireland since taking the throw hunters gathered in the village of hillsboro to welcome him. he also met leaders of northern islands devolved parliament. now in our other headlines this hour, the u. n. u s. m e u,

of called for immediate de escalation of fighting off to violence flight over night, between armenia and as of by john armenian prime minister says 49 of his soldiers were killed along their shed. border while as of by john says it lost 50 troops. the west escalation of hostility since the 2020 conflict in the disputed know corner car back region. and ukraine is saying aimed to liberate all its territory after driving that russian forces in the northeast raisins. lensky says, ukraine is in full control of more than 4000 square kilometers of recaptured territory and is stabilizing. another 4000 moscow has admitted his forces. have been outnumbered in the past week. the stream is coming up. next. news. news. news.

ah ah, i am and i have a dean and welcome to the stream. mexico is national guard is now under direct military control after congress, back to bill spearheaded by the country's president and race, manuel lopez open the door, says the move will help in the fight against violent crime. but critics are questioning his motive. today we ask, what does military control of policing mean for mexico? ah, joining us today we have and other cs sold off a journalist in mexico city. anna lorraine delgado is deputy director at foundation for justice human rights organization. she's in washington, d. c. and last but not least, catalina, i put as could a, as a professor and researcher at the center for research and teaching of economics.

she joins us from august. got it. we also, of course, want to hear your thoughts here at the stream. so if you're watching us on youtube, join the chat and be part of today's conversation. all right, let's get straight to it. so many questions here. really, i want to ask you under the lopez over door really ran on premise of sort of, you know, ending corruption and sort of the drug war and all the violence that we've been seeing for well over a decade. why as he made this, you turn in his pledge to kind of tend the soldiers back to the barracks. yes, this is the question that we are all asking, especially men and the people who did vote for him. i'm in the 1st few years, one of his campaign slogans and ones being president was a but i thought no by less of which means hug. not bullets. and then the country has really been a security crisis. not just since he took power more in the past 15 years since the former president philippe galler. i'm started

a military strategy which has led to the death of over 200000 people and over 100000 people who are disappeared. but with a blow to said that he was going to break from this military strategy and get to the core of in responding with education and more opportunities for young people, which you said was the basis of why there was so much violence. and when he was al, questioned a few weeks ago, it is morning presidential conference by a journalist of why he had changed his mind. a basically just said that, that i changed my mind. i didn't work. and now i change my mind. so he didn't really give a more of an explanation more that he himself saw that his strategy of security was not working with i do agree with. but i turned into a militarized strategy is just returning to a completely failed strategy from the right. i failed strategy that his predecessors, which he criticized, of course, when he was running, you know, all to, well that, that it's not a winning strategy. i want to ask you,

i cut the lena based on what you heard. you know, we, we have, let's actually 1st listen to lopez over door in his own words as well as an opposition. paul, politician who clocks back to him as he tries to justify this ticklish it proposed she, oh, let me see that he's purpose of this is not militarization or moved towards authoritarianism, but to take care under the vigilance at the defense ministry. the healthy growth of what should be the main public security institution of the countries. i know they luckily this is cindy. really know we will not allow a permanent state of siege to be established in this country. as the president of the republican planning to come will open ended, but if you didn't like rica and that you know what comes to mind when you hear that framed as healthy growth? is mexico growing healthily? no, i mean, i think we need to understand the fact that what is happening today in mexico and, and the decisions that local hope all is making doesn't just come out in terms of

security. we. this has happened in a context for the president has been very openly critical to the courts that oppose policies to the press in and we have, you know, the most violent one of the most violent countries against journalists in the, during president, president lovers over a government we have had a maximum of journalists killed by organized crime or, you know, unresolved crimes. and also he's been very critic against his critics on who's of the opposition party. so i think it's important to understand this because we're military, i think public security tasks, not so in any context, but in the context of the president becoming more and more powerful. and the national guard is going to have a lot of different functions. some of them they can buy on phones,

they can buy on on the internet. they will be in charge of investigating crime of preventing crime. they'll be in charge of guarding prison be in charge also of making accusations. so as they have a very, very large amount of faculty, in terms of what, what they're, what, everything, all the powers that they, they're getting through these reforms. right. and i'm not consolidation of power is what so troubling just the scale of it and sort of the speed and raising a lot of questions of what that means for mexico in general. but also, what ambitions that might might reflect that, you know, low as over door might have, i do want to share with you on youtube. we have mark nora thing isn't mexico and norco state. how can there ever be any solution when the entire political structure has been bought by the cartels? we also have other people making the point that the problem isn't necessarily whose military it is, but who actually actually controls it. the more you centralize the power,

the greater the chance that one single person can weaponized it against anyone. that's michael henderson. we also heard, actually we invited the president's communication team to you know, have their viewpoint be included in this conversation. unfortunately, we didn't hear back, but we did receive this video from the president of the senate in mexico. take a listen. we go with those who do i move up from mexico has been experiencing a very difficult time in the past few years regarding security issues. recent national studies show that the majority of mexicans are accepting of the national guard. that is to say that there is a level of credibility in this institution that was started during this government administration that address manuel lopez open the door has been in charge of since 2018. that is why it is an issue that is so important for the lives and heritage of the mexican people and why the senate has decided to strengthen this institution.

we think it is necessary for tactical operational commands to exist on a federal level that works in coordination with the $32.00 states and the more than 2 and a half thousands municipality. so when the man local people another, and we heard that a 100, they're speaking of credibility. is there any credibility? well, what we have seen is dad a, a lot of people in mexico support in the army. and, and this is something that they mexican pretend is using or promoting emily, they say train mexico. the thing is that if people are in need security now our country, we agree with some of the comments of the people who hut but some questions of from the audience. a, we agree done. we have a very bio lindsey to each one in mexico. we agree that we need to do something to stop at work. we think that many days a chunk is not their way to do it. and he are very concerned. for example,

a dad did that britain and he's bushing very much debility sation. but by the other side, he's not concerned about how our you the shall a bower or our, but it's a goose and see them is working. it, you see, for example, we have can all stool more than 100, a dozen people that had been disappeared in our country and site recovery light, very 7 air convictions for these appearances. so that gives you an idea about how is working. i will a you, the shall cease them if we don't put and not a force of trying to change that persecution cease them in our country. the, from my gene a, the, i mean is going to the tain. a lot of people after that. those people who have been detained are going to go to a day, fidel or the locker system and the prosecution system east collapse it. yeah. so what is how it will look at the limit? yeah, go ahead. no, i just,

i just want to jump in for also for what the senator said and, you know, the, it's true that we have a very violent situation in mexico. but it's also true if, if you see the powers that are actually giving to the national garden to the military. there not only for combat thing organized, crime their, their powers even to stop you in a traffic light and give you a parking ticket for, i mean it at the know that there absolutely no correlation between the size of the violent problem that we have in mexico and the powers of those that are being given you know, we also have this idea that a one size fits all solution to the crime. and mexico is going to be, you know, helpful when we have a very large country of problems in the border with the us are very different than the problems that we have in central mexico are the ones that we have in the coast of the gulf of mexico, or in the border with what the model where we have migrants coming in for this. this is going to solve all these questions. right. so, and because you bring up migration or immigration, i mean, we've seen the ports,

we've seen airports, we've seen train projects. so many things, as you alluded to earlier, coming under the purview, the control of this one entity. and you know, with that in mind, i saw. so you all seem like you want to jump in. but we also have people on youtube charming. and a lot of people kind of pointing to are asking questions about this sort of contradiction like it seems that the military or the navy and the marines are the most trusted. but at the same time, this consolidation of power is the most dangerous thing. maybe for the future of mexico is, is that true? how do you marry those 2 realities? i think that people do of entrust more in the army because the police are known to be very corrupt. but it doesn't mean that there is not corruption in the, in the armed forces or violations of human rights. also there's been a huge propaganda campaigns, including parade, putting military helicopters and doing faith painting for children so that they

believe in the military. and so the government, not just this government, but mexican government for the past few decades, has been propping up the military. but also we talk about corruption. we have the case of id, not the of the 43 disappeared students that when they all were attacked 8 years ago i in the state of riddle, the government tried to say that it was just local police working with members of organized crime, but a very exhaustive investigation has shown that the army was involved and that the army, it is believed now that there was an army general that murdered 6 of these students . and last year when the i had of the army was detained in the united states were legit ties to drug dr. again, right on the mexican government and get negotiated so that he would be let free and that actually be prosecuted. so there clearly is corruption and murder that happened at the hands of the military just left a 2 weeks ago. a young girl was murdered,

round the border in new able laredo right hand to the right. and of course, there are no explanations. i think you're referring to the 5 year old girl which made headlines, but of course no accountability, no real probing into how to prevent this in the future. i do want to ask you, when we, you know, we know, for example, that the numbers simply don't lie. some of you have shared some of the statistics with our audience, 200000 federal troops now policing the streets as we speak more than twice the number as under any precedent predecessor. with that in mind, i want to share with you what one relative of a violent kind of attack on how to say about the violence and, and how he frames and views this as he experiences it. take listen, give me the most to michel darrel, read morgan. we live in a state of terrorism in a large portion of the country. there's terrorism in our country. there's an internal armed conflict that is creating terror, fear, and violence. we can't live in peace as all the mexican people want. as

a government doesn't want to acknowledge it. we ask the un to officially recognized . there's an internal armed conflict in mexican coleman. he come with his lap up. and the lorena, do you think that that would help if the un were to make that classification? no, i think that's it. what we need is to put the forward in some other issues as mexico is forgetting about us. i say that in my 1st a opinion that you the shall power is very important during these moments. and we have seen da da breton, but also the parliament has violated our constitution. and we need a very strong do the, shall power to, to make control in all day things that have been happening. know what country the other is that a, is a very well know in, in general, in even by the may and nations. but also for the day, inter armika humorous commission. they have clearly stated that augments are on

force. should only interview in a, in public security, embarrassed in their career and variety basis. i mean the deception as it go stances east breaking dot, mexico's making a rule using the army for a step before for a security does. i'm for somewhat more there a dust. yeah, for a self see geisha, we are very worry for example, that they are going to be part of the investigations or we have seen it. we a, for example, represent beek themes of massacres and be, say, my grandson had been disappear. i need an investigation while he got we have seen is what it does when the army east part of an investigation, they never led. you have the information right. of right, of course. and, and of course, you know, we've seen the, sorry that i don't mean to interject. i mean, we've seen this with governments who are averse to accountability, whether mexico or israel, or what have you. it's, it's a common pattern, right? and catalina. so to bring it back to sort of what the people can do,

what can be done about this beyond, ah, sort of political opposition. i want to share with you on some footage and, and what some of the protesters in mexico city who were really protesting against the move to expand the judiciary and many things. how to say take a listen, catalina. yeah, look at him with me. don't want a militarized national guard. we say no to a military state. we want to live in peace. you are already suffering from repression. we are already living in a silent warrant, catalina, you know, these protests that we see and this show and these conversations. what do you think is the 1st step to, to really trying to prevent this sort of consolidation of power? is it too late? i think in many ways it's too late. but i mean that right now, even at this moment, there's another proposal being talked of in the house of chambers where they're

expanding, but you've of the military 5 more years for the, for the federal government. i think people can write to the congress person. we can also, you know, write on, on social media. we can go out on the street and, and protest again. but i, i really see that they just don't want to listen. and it's very worrisome because they're, they're now ruling as if they were, they would always be in power. and i think something has to be done. if you know, when you make love, you have to imagine yourself as being on the other side of power, not on the side of power. and i think somehow we need to make our legislators understand this. you know, i want to share with you ladies, a lot of people paying attention in our youtube chat, asking some questions. maybe you can feel the mattie de thing. why is the states

and their guns influence? not part of this important discussion. obviously for our audience, who does not know, recently i believe this year, cartels were in control and 4 major cities. we've often seen the justification for this militarization. and as we've heard, you know, be due to that kind of cartel violence. but we also have someone asking another question. corwin tow a thing. since we've identified a serious problem, and the panelists have made it clear that the solution is not military control. how do we kill corruption? how do we change the behavior of thousands of people? it feels like a lot of people getting to this question of it feels like there is nothing to be done. i mean, some people even asking, is it far fetched to imagine the military coup as we've seen in many other south american countries. i mean, there's some nuance here, right? we're talking about the militarization of mexico. but if i'm not mistaken all in all mexico relative to a lot of other countries nearby. and that region maybe has had less of

a role of the military. is it less of a kind of military dictatorship? how do you, how do you kind of, how do you explain it? it's important related to what you mentioned about weapons. it is important to note that actually the army or the you could own leap, possess weapons. if you are a member of the army or police, or armed forces in mexico, that the population in general is not allowed to own or possess weapons. so it is true that all of the weapons that are used in crimes in mexico are either a legally imported from united states or. 6 often there are of weapons that somehow they came from the army, but i think it's important to return to both. but my both of my company here had said is that the judicial system in mexico is incredibly weak and it is not just corruption, is because there is, are not enough resources. so when a prime is being investigated, there are not enough forensic experts. there are not enough even if they need to go

and get different tests, investigate every single part of the investigation, which i won't go on to that make too much time. there is not enough resources. so that is why there's a 95 percent rate of impunity. we're crimes. i, we, people are never prosecuted. people are not in prison. the case of i used enough of that. i mentioned all of the hundreds of people that were arrested 8 years later. they have not been prosecuted, they did not have sentences, and that's one of the most important cases in the country. so we are seeing that you can put more people that look like they're going to control the street. but what happens and then they arrest them and then they go to prison and they're immediately released. well, and because i'm because we talk about the judiciary as one of the main sort of flaws in the system, right? the weakness of the judiciary. i mean, what court challenges do you think we can expect to see what is something tangible, catalina, that you think in terms of criminal justice or public safety like reforms? i know i just asked you this earlier. you said it was maybe too late,

but i'm just trying to keep a little bit of hope alive. is there perhaps a likeliness in your mind that there could be, you know, there were heading in the trajectory of a military coup? no, i mean, i think you're right in mentioning the courts and the importance of records the supreme court have for the past 6 years, not they haven't been willing to false the and to resolve on the limits of military action in mexico. but i think with this last reform, it's going to be impossible for the not to make a case and to pronounce the law and establish the limits. i think in this case where we're going to be having the military doing police work, but we're under military jurisdiction. the court is going to have to say something . and i think may be part of the solution if you know making but it's a visual power. say something and establish another in i do you agree with that? of course i think i am putting my hope in the judicial power right now because the

judge cuts this dog. it dease, these reforms that are against it because he dish and i think he's very here for a levels dot what they have done it again, is that going to do shown, i mean we have a very strong do you charge by work? the should be simple, they use a have to do to declare that it, these reforms are against it because he do shown a i think a, me, we are going to be watching it wired, whether they want to do on we're going to promote all the legal actions like the asked or will, damn fido a to make the, the court to say something about it. and i think the supreme court is going to play a, b, i b, a huge error error or a right now in our country. yeah. well, much like your neighbor to the north, the supreme court recently playing a very big role in setting the sort of culture shown here. yeah, go ahead. very quickly, catalina. yeah, he's just, he's just very quickly, but i just wanna add something that, that is what you said about the cool. and i think the case of mexico looks more

like what has happened in hungary or turkey where it's not just the cool that happened in the way that had happened in chile or in brazil. but something that you know little reforms took place. and then suddenly, when you looked at all of the reforms as one big piece, then you have established an authoritarian state. and i think that's what we're seeing in the case of mexico. so it's not going to be something like what we're looking for as, as the story of latin america shown us, but something more to the. so the liking of hungary or turkey. certainly, and just to share with you or we have in our youtube chat, develop the i saying a solution could be direct oversight by an independent entity of it and to be would need to be vigorously vetted annually. obviously whether or not about that sounds great, but i don't know how feasible that is, but it seems like weathered the judiciary. everyone's hoping for a little bit of that consolidation and sort of power grab to b to

b somehow dissipated. so seems like the right way to go. sorry, i don't know yet. i'm sorry, quickly. we have to wrap up the last thought. go ahead. learned a very no. no. when i was going to say that we also have a these commissions of human rights. yeah. the national commission of human rights on the local commission of human rights, make it the annual, playing at various thrown rolling. i work on people they should because they sure like a build a monitor, right? any, some who do see all or it is happening, you know, what country in terms of human rights violations. so i think who owes play a big role in our country and obviously, you know, i've been to mexico city or the police, they're notorious for maybe carrying more about bribes than crimes. there's so much more to this discussion. i do want to just share with you one. i'm stephanie brewer who focuses on human rights advocacy. she says, this is not only violating the constitution as you've said, but she, she kind of frames it in the dire consequences that

a lot of people worry about. take a listen. this a form is an alarming set back for justice and human rights in mexico because over a decade and a half of evidence shows that deployed the military and policing tasks does not improve public security. there has been very little accountability for the serious human rights violations committed by the mexican military in recent years. and now this a forum means that only the military will be carrying out federal policing tasks. and reform itself openly violates mexico's constitution or mexico needs are capable and accountable civilian security and justice institutions to investigate crimes, to solve crimes. what it does not need is to continue expanding the power and internal roles of its military. i think we can all agree that it's the institutions that are needed that are missing. ah, ladies, thank you so much for your time. that's all the time we have for today, but you can always find us online. adstream dot al jazeera dot com ah

mm hm. and the latest news as it breaks we've been speaking to the families and there's about 5000 people living in this block of government class. we've been displaced from their homes by the flux, they come from all over st province. we detailed coverage, elder zeros, legal teeth plans to submit a case with the international criminal court at the hey, from around the world. just that there is here in this country, a culture of fear when it comes to a job, really corruption. beneath the surface lies a dark aside in british politics, an exclusive al jazeera investigation coming scene

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