russia only wanted to subordinate various nations of europe and asia just 6 months ago. now, woman this crim crime is stopped in ukraine. it was still near cave and chimney here in as of style in summer region. in harkey region in snake island snake island . it will be stopped and done boss, and in the south of ukraine when we liberates them, and especially in crimea, in a free ukrainian crimea, all of our country's territory will be liberated from this enemy. it is not just the enemy of ukraine, it is the enemy of life itself, of humanity, of law, and truth. russia knows this. russia feels our power. it can see that here in ukraine, we approving the strength of our values. and this is why it is in a hurry for us. it is christmas staging this foth and annexation. it is trying to steal that which does not belong to it. it wants to kill to torture,

to blackmail and lie in order to rewrite history and redraw borders. ukraine will not allow this to day. i held a meeting with the staff of the general staff and the chief commander in chief, the security council of ukraine. we have decided 1st only by strengthening ukraine and chasing the occupiers from our territory, shall re until we return a visit to our borders. we will cover this road. the only through negotiations will love we will return to negotiations. ukraine has always proposed negotiations on fair terms, but clearly president this russian president, we can't deal with him. he does not know what is humanity and honor. therefore, we are prepared for a dialogue with russia but with a different president of russia. and 3rd one,

we must confirm legally every thing we have achieved in reality, in ukraine, it is in ukraine that the fate of democracy is decided and confrontation with tyranny. it is here within the state borders of ukraine that we can confirm the strength of the borders of all european countries. we can guarantee that nobody will dare to people. great as you return tyranny to our continent. it is here that the values of our you right land to community has been, have been revived by a people that is fighting for freedom, me and was other nations that help. thus in the struggle we are real alive. with nato, our, we have covered this roads to nato, ending in an actual fact. we have proven that we are compatible with this downwards of the alliance. they a real, i am on the battlefield. in every aspect of our corporation,

we trust one another. we help one another and we are protect in defending one another, and that is our reliance. this is an actual alliance to day ukraine is making it so provident savanski announcing that ukraine is formerly applying to fast rockets membership off the nato military alliance. that's it for the news this hour, but there'll be more updates at the top of the hour with nick clark after the stream. thanks for watching. a multi $1000000000.00 industry. but beyond the glitz and glamour on those to survive. desperate to fulfill their admissions at coast and new things for the journal to the highest. and those only dreams and aspirations. that's just not let you read, you know,

golly, who dreams coming soon on to 0. i welcome to the stream. i'm at 17 today living through the war and ukraine power ukrainians, dealing with the latest shifts in the conflict, including the prospect of further russian annexation. take a listen to what ukrainian president vladimir zalinski had to say on tuesday. if sure, somebody, she, duma, if someone over there and russia thinks that they can get away with everything they are doing in the occupied territory. if someone over there in russia hopes that the world will betray its own values, frightened by some russian announcements about annexation. oh hold, then they are wrong villainy. each subsequent escalating step by the occupy are only confirms the fact that the world must act even tougher. today will hear

more about the war from people inside ukraine with us from kia. alexandra might be a joke, executive director for ukraine center for civil liberties in car keep maria of deva, a security analyst and research director for the european expert association. and tatiana pedantic, ceo of the human rights center is amina. and as always, you can join this conversation with your questions and comments right here in our live youtube chat. i want to start with the basics. let's start where you are, maria and car. keep what is, what is it like on the ground there? i mean, you heard, you know, what, what, what, what the president of ukraine had to say. what is, what is, what are the people of ukraine feeling that where you are? i think excellent situation in harkey is very important than the other steps of put in russia. and because in the very successful ukraine and counter offensive in the almost old territory particular region was liberated and it was

on the russian occupation for more than 6 months. and with the defeat and with the russian troops, lien of the harkey region. i have seen it myself, like the abandon, the sense of military retails and just are on out to the territory of russia with those still occupied territory. who didn't have to show something to his own population, show some kind of victory as some kind of progress and to give something about which he can call them or belie rational side, and to give ground for the support of this ongoing war and invasion and of course people in harkey feel very in their genetic about the developments about deliberation. but on the other hand, they have a very difficult and then we have to understand the situation because people have

no access to run and want to look with the to know basic supplies for 6 months. the last and still big even after the territories liberated, it's still very difficult for them. just simply survive. and maria and maria forgive me. i mean, they're basically starving. they're struggling to survive, but it's still dangerous. i mean, they're still attacked even this week. for example, on a railway, i mean, is it true that even though it's been liberated, it's still tenuous? absolutely, and as the russia is, continues to target tend to be lend infrastructure just in the target to the infrastructure objects which supply electricity and the heat in which means the winter will be very hard for people hard on the 40 kilometers away from the border, which means even if not, if the western rep on helping to protect the air defense,

the funds will not be supplied. it will be very difficult for your great non army to stop that congress, russian, me because russia is actually a shower in the region with me almost every day. and it certainly seems, despite everything you said, and you outline that the momentum is on the ukrainian side, or at least a lot of analysts are saying that i do want to ask you, you know, despite the sort of setbacks that we've seen military, the put and seems to be doubling down right on friday, expected to sign these documents after this sort of so called the referendum this vote in those 4 territories that are due to be annexed. i'm wondering with that in mind. what do you think that that's about alexander, i mean you're a human rights lawyer, is there anything legitimate about this referendum and if it's not legitimate, why is it significant? it's not the 1st time we've seen. couldn't do this as it is the same that

a friend or the total fake which we are nicer in the form of mockery into the mutation or for ukrainians fully stand there. pipe editors, but the wrists very understandable reason why fortune organized this baker procedure. because this fake referenda was not legal procedure birth informational, special operation. and he tried to repeat his us so called successful store you, when he denies the same fake or for him doom on their, their refills in your bites, crimea, it's years to go. we was here, you're in this a so called preferred, don't reward him hero through our mobile as groups. and we, so how russians prosecute extra people who try even peacefully suppress their patients. but after several little hears people in europe and other countries start to think may be a creamy and want to joy and russia for free,

right? because they even have such calling for random. so poochie and try to use this information with abrasion was to growth. he tried to show their happy people who joined russia for russian population. and he tried to rely upon on short people memory and repeat this so called successful stories with crimea, random with europe, ian and other kind of audience. and i appreciate that context and those nuances. i mean, it certainly seems like he's trying to obfuscate and confuse the world. seems like a strategy there. i want to also share with you, you know, a lot of people asking, is there an end insight to this war? one of those people, jason j smart, a political adviser in warsaw. poland had this to say, take a listen. new warranty continues to be very touch. it would seem that the russian army, though, has continue to fail to make any games or even to maintain the games they made

months ago. ukraine continues to be on the offensive, pushing and pushing. and what they're doing now has been very successful, and we see also that the russians are suffering from huge losses, low morale, and the general population who's increasingly turned against the war. it would certainly seem that the momentum at this point is other side of ukraine. so i'm curious, since you know, what do you make of his comments there? i mean, does, you can have the momentum and why kind of belligerently, you know, taking things out of the 2014 playbook. but also seemingly tried and doing what he was ignoring sort of the reality on the ground. yes, the russian troops are being kicked off for more and more ingrained on saturdays and your brain and armed forces are doing their job well. well, although for us, this is very difficult because many of was friends and relatives defined in our country weapon. for example, my brother, he's a programmer,

but he's not in the wrong than yet. and as a co founder and board member of my and your human by the funder, maxine good coverage is so who also wants to protect our land as a part of your grand armed forces are now he is now in the russian capacity for us . the victory also, we also hope for, for our the france and colleagues return and come back after the war and, but we see as you correctly said, there is support for collation and we can announce mark mobiles ation and in russia, which means that these unprepared soldiers many of them will die because they are not prepared for will be for, but also from ukraine inside the also, there will be more people killed. and also looking at the picture,

what the russian army is leaving behind will fix a huge amount of toss. it is and war crimes and our fields mission just came back yesterday from quite a cubic each and michael is working in bulk lee in in new york. and in a week they documented a many instances of fire exit fusions of civilians. the cases of rape for looting torture imports disappearances. and we might say that russia is using it as had of that warfare. and you know, the russian troops are, they just live in a lot of their ever and behind because they are forced to retreat and they are forced to just run. and the we have seen that a lot of case has been, the russians are just abandoned in everything and use them the,

the bicycles or cars they stole from the territory they've recently occupied. and this shows the russian army is not as strong as we didn't want everyone to be, of course. and then what is he now doing is probably struggling to show something to his own population and to the world. and also this black male and with a nuclear straight as one of this right of me. right. and i do want to talk about the nuclear threat and also those war crimes and all your evidence that you've gathered. but also how that factors into whether there is an end insight in fact, to this war. if you look at my screen here in bremar tweeting kremlin bow billboards that are announcing to that's lou hans and all these other for the total of 4 tours territory is saying that the annexations come shortly. you see these banners in russia when you see these things in russia, do you think that's actually going to change things on the ground?

i know maria said earlier that like sandra, she's a little worried about the winter when you see the billboards. what comes to mind? well, 1st, i'm sorry. we'll start with alexandra. go ahead. i will start with a point that the 1st thought which i came to my mind in that would be a fight in not only for the territory, but for the people wholly from the territories. that's why we have no other choice sooner or later. we will do you buy this territory and liberate all our people. and i'm, i'm glad you brought up the people living in that territory. we actually have an, a mash up of some people living in the periphery of the 4 territories. that russia's antics seeing that you can see there. and they kind of seem to have some varying views on, on a lot of things, really the legitimacy of the vote and how things may end. take

a listen to some of the flu return. it was from 15 to 30 percent of the inhabitants of the city. not so to take the results from bet. any math what to some will say that this is not statistics. the famous equipment to monitor those. yet that i'm in favor of the referenda personally, i don't care who it is. i'm for peace because i have 2 grand children and i worry about them. i mean, if the for to full it's when i consider what is happening there to be a total circus. people are being forced to vote. it doesn't make any difference if they vote or not, people are trying to save their lives, so they don't get killed. that's my opinion. these votes are not legitimate. maria reactions, i mean dennis calling it a total circus. i would imagine the 3 of you agree with that. but then you also heard from, you know, someone from an older generation valentina, they're saying she, she's supporting the referent. well,

i would say that some of the people who leave on the occupied territories for all these 7 years, things that russia 1st thought that the invasion, they're proud of. what's the job? because they have no choice. russia is feeling the territories with military which actually all the time, read them, population, leave them there. and let's take into consideration situation in the upper part of the territory where the nuclear ball land is actually located is occupied by russians and people working at the nuclear plant. when can not go home, they're forced to stay there. they are forced to do what the russian military is saying them, whereas the center of the regions appreciated south is in the ukraine. uncontrolled territory in kwan every day shall by the russian army. so we cannot say that people

on the occupied territories have to be with the extra to say, was an independent live what their thoughts are. because like a neighbor came to your house and puts a gun and ask you to ward for you. it was, this is all right, and then you know me go i have seen yeah, go ahead. go ahead. i would like to emphasize input and sentence with this women to a woman told me, she told i would teen for russia, because i want peace, vigorous i am carried about my family and children, et cetera. and this is something i absorbed for years because for 18 years we have part of ukrainian territories. under accommodation of russia. i mean crimea and bar to will guns continue region. and some people choose to take the so called survival modo, so they told, well, not, and favor of ukraine. milton ferro, russia,

we went into the people are not interested in politics. we just want to have a, we're like routine work and to raise our children, etc. but as a human rights defender documented for crimes for 8 years on this territory, i know for sure that the survival modo will not save this people. unfortunately, i appreciate you making a point. i can agree is because my enjoy in your mind is that important disappearances and abductions. and we get that information about 328 cases where local governments representatives or journalists activists will and peterson were kidnapped. and out of them, 16 persons fortune till death, and the half of the people are still in captivity and they are captain, when you call in the basement. but this practice of enforce disappearing. devices,

location of checks, if not, if you will, because when brush occupied occupied crimea, back in 2014 the occupational authorities and the russian army acted together with the local foreign military group, which is called crimea. and self defense immediately started from the practice of abduction of local activities. from that time 201421644 persons in crimea, where at the dock it and the majority of them were all try me on the thought origin . the origin of people and then they immediately continue this practice in the boss where hundreds of people where became a victim talking for disappearance. and now we can speak about 1000. so we can. so can you and said before is only us only only one and jo collected over 300 cases and there are many other and yours that i'm like, this is data. and i appreciate you talking about don bass obviously for to me. and

i know that is the northernmost region of ukraine. and you know, we've seen the documentation of war crimes, the allegations being made, not just by human rights defenders and lawyers like yourself, but the u. s. independent, international commission released findings that russia has committed war crimes and ukraine. this is your tweet, maria you, you visited in, is you the bodies that were being i think hundreds of eggs, emissions, as you say, unmarked graves. people being lifted out. witnesses confirm to you that they saw people being shot on the streets by russians. other died from shelling and the lack of access to health care. you describe it in your treat as so horrible you could barely breathe. i'm curious. what can you share with us about that experience and what, what worries you most about the winter, we've seen the nuclear threats. we discussed that briefly. we've seen the threats of depriving europe and others of energy. what worries you most i've been for the last 2 weeks going around harkey region to the area that were just

recently liberated and we have, we have seen one and the same feature. it would be torch us. where russians will put people when that when they were on their occupation, the other thing will be my grade because that was great, is where about 450 graves, unmarked. we just numbers to fall and it's just the only one, the most terry, both kids but they're out the same situations in other occupied regions. and then people are telling that they've seen there's been killed. i have personally talked to witnesses, not one that may need. some of them saw it the other day that their relative just disappeared and they don't know where they are. and people because the all the cars,

all the communication and all the and utility smoke cut all their look in with a very great right and concern in the upcoming winter. what will they do now? they are offered to be evacuated? no, if you want, you can be about it to the territory of ukraine where you will have more or less conditions for living through the winter. yeah. and you know, it's, it's interesting to hear you outline those concerns and seeing some of the questions that are coming into us on our youtube chat. i want to share one with you . alex sandra hunter thompson saying wasn't ukraine winning? how are russia managing to? and i see cranium territory, doesn't that involve them being in the territory with fake western news, obviously, you know, raising to varying kind of narratives here that the western media not always get this right. but also that, you know,

it's confusing. how was russia actually going to annex 15 percent of the territory? alexandra, does that mean ukraine's not winning and what is needed to win, or at least to end? this war isn't weapons. i'm a human rights lawyer who spent 20 years for defend human rights in ukraine, and we see region. and now when they ask how we can help people in the queue by 3030, just survived from the terror, which russians are going. i there, i found myself in reverse situation when they answer least provide the ukraine with weapons. because all my 20 years experience in human rights defense couldn't help me because any legal instrument or not work. russia brutally ignored the international human you said in law and all decision for international organization . so i will remind you that this war started not in february this year,

but in february 2014 and fortune started this war. yes, only. i'm sorry, i don't mean to interrupt you, but you made this point. i appreciate you making the point that it didn't start now . but i'm just going to push back a little bit on this question of these threats that we hear. i mean, is this an actual, do you imagine we've heard these threats before from putting is that a real possibility in your mind as someone who is who's been following this and documenting all this? alexandra puts in the will, will stop or only when he will be stopped. so he will do everything which he want until he will, he will be aloft to do it. so that the response to the questions depend on international community, okay. and their problems, and i just want to say that it's hard to interrupt you again, i'm terribly sorry, but in the spirit of time, i want to understand what does the international community need to do most in your mind, the human rights lawyer is it sends long range weapons, i mean, that's been the, the demand for from ukraine long creation distance weapon,

economical function, which controls ability of russian economy to keep the sport. and just if we really need just because russian troops committed this war crimes for decades in shooting are in the model in cd, in the be in monday and they enjoy computing it. they start to believe they can do everything and what they wanted. we must break the circle from unity. we need justice. and with that in mind, i want to come to you, maria. i want to share with you a video comment that we received from max and pen shanker. take a listen. russia is now trying to mobilize a huge amount of reservation in an attempt to reverse what otherwise seems to be a losing battle. and in this context rush and this information practice is key. in addition to the regional messages about ukraine, allegedly being a naughty state, which was used to innovate the country in the 1st place. russia is now trying to

paint the picture of fighting the entire need to block in ukraine, which of course hate in the risks or potential nuclear incidents. you know, maria, i have to ask you, what do you think of that? and also, you know, in our youth chat, a lot of people are very concerned and curious about this nuclear war threat we've heard at time and time again. is it a real threat or is it just, you know, saber rattling? is it just buying time? what, what is it in your mind? well, we have to take this very serious and we have to be prepared for your question. if you grade need the where on the most? yes, this is the only way out and we need, we're on to protect civilians. the more long wrench, high, precise, where on ukraine, as the quicker all the territory or few great will deliberate that. and that's the only goal. you have to liberate all the territories that now on last occupied by russia. how so the response to the nuclear threat and nuclear black malin provide

ukraine more where show that you all the west is united and we are all united and we will not lead the heem continue big black mile. and because on with succeeds in this, he will go for that he will go for both text based on any where he wishes. because that's his dream. and he thought about it openly. he wants, i mean, put him to restore the russian empire, and that he won't talk it only in ukraine now most certainly, and i, i want to thank you, dana, and all of you for joining us. i mean, you know, we've seen that the, what washington dc and the you are planning to impose additional additional. thanks and on russia, we don't know if that'll be enough, but it's certainly not the last conversation we'll have here at the stream. thank you for joining us. and we'll see you next time. ah,

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