events have driven low professor to raise of authentic years long battle to grant marmen or the legal status of a person a battle she's now one. now we recognize that there. busy deny chart is defended of july and has value enough to give. right. and then now the big company can do things and t that they're right of nature is deli, meet close by university. scientists are creating a living insurance policy just in case c. horses and other marine life from marmen are a being studied and bred to keep stocks in reserve for future re introduction. the hope is they wouldn't be needed for my notice when i got it. i work in the mama noise a long distance race in a sitting here. the regional and national covenants are working. i think with all the measures as a whole, we can get mano to recover and got one thought. the regional government told us it was reducing fertilizer use removing algae and improving the sewage system. the new

legal status for this place at least, gives it advocates another way to hold those in power to account. hurry for sit al jazeera, my mon or southern spain. ah, hello there, this is out of there, and these are the headlines. at least 17 people have been killed in a russian attack and the ukrainian city of upper region. ukrainian officials say russian forces shell, the cities residential areas overnight for challenges, one from the civilians of the city as apparitions that seem to be experiencing the worst of rushes rage. the city has been pounded repeatedly over recent days by russian air strikes and missile strikes. it's indiscriminate at best, at worst, it seems intense. no, that's how most the cravings interpreted is why they describe russia as

a terrorist state. and last night's, again, there were strikes on civilian targets are further east in ukraine. the battle is intensifying as caves forces tried to advance into the hunt region. thousands of russian troops have retreated in recent days, leaving behind major destruction. marches had been held in several u. s. cities in support of reproductive rights organizes urging people to vote in next month's mid term elections. the politicians who support the federal rights abortion. south korean, japan say north korea has fight to short range ballistic missiles. the 7th such weapons test in recent days. the launch came hours after the u. s. and south korea completed a new round of naval drills off the korean peninsula as east coast and israeli soldier was killed and 3 other people wounded in an attack on a military checkpoint and occupied east jerusalem. the israeli army says

a soldier with 18 year olds, no l, as they say a palestinian gunman opened fire on the check point issue off that refugee camp a search for the attack. it is ongoing. meanwhile, a funeral has been house for a 17 year old palestinian youth killed by israeli forces during a raid and the jenin refugee camp palestinian forces. a israeli soldiers have killed at least 4 teenagers in the occupied west bank in recent days. well, those are the headlines. i'll have more news for you here on out there after inside story to stay with us. america is a region of wonder i'm joy tragedy and yes of violet. but it doesn't matter where you are. you have to be able to relate to the human condition with no country is a life, and it's my job to shed light on how and why people across europe are struggling to pay, storing energy bill. but the

e u. com to agree on capping the price of natural gas, which is in short supply due to a rush of war in ukraine. so what can lead us do to prevent a winter of discontent? this is inside story with hello there and welcome to the program. i'm laura kyle time is running out for europe to contain storing natural gas prices. russia was the constant bane provider until it invaded ukraine earlier this year. sanctions and disruptions to pipelines such as the north stream one and the baltic sea of dental supplies. so households and businesses being forced to pay several times more than usual. european union leaders have been meeting in the czech republic to discuss ways to keep costs down

ahead of winter. 15 member states, one's an e u y price cap on gas, but others including germany and the netherlands, are against this. germany is focusing on subsidies to protect its own businesses and consumers neighboring poland says that's not fair for the rest of the block. and the head of the european commission is urging members to unite behind a common plan time and again, the single market has proven to be our single best asset in times of crisis. therefore, we need to preserve it is of paramount importance that we have a level playing field and that we avoid fragmentation and distortion. on the contrary, we have to make possible that their investments, we have to double down on investments in home grown renewables. not only for the climate, but also because the transition to the clean energy is the best way to again independence and to have security of energy supply. or the

e. u has already agreed other measures to reduce demand and protect supplies. these include a so called solidarity levy on energy companies, excess profits, and the cap on revenues made by non gas electricity produces a mandatory 5 percent cost on electricity consumption during peak hours until march next year. and a voluntary 10 percent reduction to be decided by each member state. many have already set standard limits. it's lee in spain of order the maximum temperature of 90 degrees celsius for central heating. while germany has turned off hot water and public buildings. and frances, even put speed limits on ski lifts and producing less artificial snow or storing energy bills and rising living costs of triggered protests across major european cities in the past few months. and this was a dominant issue in the recent elections in italy and squeeze them off, so as to boston, as more for one protest in prague. this is the largest straight union rally

in a factory. workers have to take it to the street here in a how they call this rally. and we are meeting here, factory work from all kinds of industry, some metal industry and textile industry, communications and even the medical workers right here. and it all complaining about the high prices because the check republican that's one of the largest inflation rates in europe. more than 70 percent, i think for is controlled by the government not only, but also fuel. they want the price on gas to go to the general public. was 100 percent, depending on russian gas before and now they tried to import gas from everywhere had the cars are tremendously high. so that's what they are asking for and money.

many more people are expected to come here today. so everyone 50000, maybe up 270000 all the way we humming fast for al, to see iraq insights going. ah, let's bring in august now. and in until rebecca christie a non resident fellow at frugal. that's a brussels based economic think tank in london, mike lawson, head of ox famines, national inequality policy program, and in babylon. keela columbia. anna maria hire mackerel, which she is an energy analyst for the europe team of the institute for energy economics and financial analysis. a welcome to all of you, anna maria. let's start with looking at these different price caps as all sorts of different proposals on the tables. what are they a, why can't you countries agree on them? hi, they are very different. they all are a mean to secure some type of gas to the 15 to the, to the,

to the continent. but they like coordination. they, like they lock us mart, unsustainable solution for the continent. they all want, some of them want to cup on the energy, but if you for to older on radio, see now what the consumer is paid. but then there's another one. so they want to kind of mixture between them because it's difficult. if we, if we put a cup on the price, we are what to pay for the gas. we could have, we have a great competition outside. and perhaps some countries are worried that they will lose by years. yeah. that they will own i to sell to them a, so it's not an easy solution each on each. each country has their own needs and what we need is a coordinated action that would be beneficial for all the convenient. so rebecca,

we've got 15 member states wanting an e u wide price cap, but germany and the netherlands are against that. why is that? particularly? i think you're talking about a price cap on natural gas, which is of interest because natural gas is not affected by the sanctions that have been put in place on russia. if anything, russia has been defacto putting gas related sanctions on the e u through limiting supply i and as a consequence of all the technical issues with the pipelines, so you have the issue of what consumers and wholesalers are paying for natural gas and whether it's best to have a market signal, a subsidy, some sort of regulated market how you're going to help europe get through the winter. this is very different from the oil price cap that the e u is trying to put specifically on russian oil, perhaps as an alternative to ending all exports of russian oil. so they're very different cast with very different goals. and it seems, rebecca,

the country is attending to via towards taking their own approach and this is upsetting e u. unity. how difficult is it to reach a consensus because they are very different countries and very different needs? when you talk about taking your own approach, you really, i believe talking about energy security and how each country is looking to handle its domestic responsibilities in terms of keeping the heat on and the lights on it difficult because it best has in effect budget. some countries are able to borrow more and public markets and others, and it's brittany to coordinate all this stuff in a way that pays for it. and that doesn't cause other people to feel like they're paying for their neighbors. like this is a very is on the easy issue to manage isn't even if you are doing it country by country, can you explain the rate at which these energy prices are spiraling and the impact that it's having on the people?

well i think for auction we work for people over the world also was very poor people in europe in spain, here in the u. k. i talked to exaggerate the impact the prices i was just reading today about how we already year in the u. k. i have 4000000 people using food bank, so food charities that give out food because people are hungry. many, many people are now coming in. please give us food code that you don't have to cook because they're unable even here in october. the beginning of the winter to afford the energy to even cook the free food. so it's hard to exaggerate the pain of the but he's, those are hard to exaggerate the profits at the top. you've got an energy industry that's making around $3000000000.00 of profit a day. you've got 72 new food and energy 1000000000 is 72 new 1000000000 as a top of the existing in the oil gas and food industry. so, you know,

is profit to be made enormous winners to in this situation. so something has to give, we need to see guys when it contributes more to helping the people annemarie. i would do, you don't say that those, those when as opp, helping to address as wealth inequality, we were looking at many countries already bringing in a wind full tax on profits. yeah. they're, they're all healthy. but maybe does one solution. it's not, you know, often we all have to work. as i said in older times, i've said we need to re solutions that will tackle 3 main things that are energy, security, any transition goals on cost. so any solution that comes into play have to break a wider benefit to all the communities and if they are helping but just one solution won't be and all they need to also work on to be mon side. and that's the part that i am struggling to see europe, that all solutions are mainly from their supply side there. and i think all the

problems that we have on the supply issues. but i want to see program immediately starting in all europe on how to sleep the month. and how can we bring bray sample? he pain, he's been in the state of a wait because that is the worry. now that you're going to come to december, we call me and we need to be seen by your re fi of the countries that you've got for central heating. so i was, i would like to be social on the demand side because you're just focused in supply side max towards the extent do you agree with that? but consumers and businesses should be responsible as well for this by reducing that demand. i mean, i think in the u. k, it might be one of the few countries in europe that is not requiring people to change their behavior of consumption of electricity. i think i would agree, but let's again be careful of the tyranny of averages. so we said consumers in the

u. k, we're talking about a hugely cool country. so do i think rich consumers should massively reduce that consumption of energy even in normal times? you know, the rich is 1020 percent of every country in europe dominate the use of carbon, the use of energy. and alex using far, far more carbon than they could if we're going to save the planet. so i think we need to be careful saying that all consumers need to somehow tighten their bells. we think of those people, the term in wrenches recommendation, one in falling death from cold in winter here in the u. k. these are very poor people often elderly. so i don't think we should really be telling them to conserve energy something let's be really specific about who we mean the top in every society. i'm massively over consuming energy and you're about to what are your thoughts on that? because as we just heard, it's lee in spain, for example,

ordering a maxim temperature of 19 degrees celsius for central heating. it doesn't sound very high. do you think that makes enough of a difference to warrant? it demand certainly will help. and then the other question is how countries can, how make sure their most vulnerable are getting assistance. this is something that makes to me more sense than just regulating the entire market and lowering prices that even very well be people can benefit from. instead, he leave the crisis high to encourage people who might have a choice about how much they spend on energy to spend less. and then you provide direct aid to the people in less fortunate circumstances who just need help getting by. rebecca, this is what germany is doing, is that it's created this $200000000000.00 aid package, which will help people with the soaring energy bills. but it's coming on to massive foreign from other parts of europe. that is saying that it's just going out on its own as creating unfair competition in a single market. there's

a lot of concern that a country like germany that has a lot of fiscal space is benefiting without sharing the wealth that people across the, you believe comes from the single market as a whole. so there's a feeling that germany would do better to use its economic power to help the entire continent rather than simply focusing within its own borders and leaving other people do the same. given how critical germany is of the way other people spend their own money and also you finances, there's lots of he said for helping vulnerable populations. there's a lot to be said for looking for ways to structure aid and to structure market incentives. the market will work, but it needs to be done in a way that people believe is fair. that political presumption is important. annemarie, you mentioned that demand is important, but cups, whilst they may ease the cost, they certainly don't restrained among do they?

so this is gonna cost me those as to how good and how well they will be received. but i would encourage more switching. got the bond, for example, there are alternatives for heating that he's one of these that are the main worry right now for the winter. so why do we encourage more buying heat, installing people cold, you know, maybe solar panels for keeping school so that he might be minus, you know, different ways. and i think that's what we need more chain, the go aspects, not just the financial part. you know, we need to understand ok, how is the system work? how we need to understand also property, our network, how east the gas or the energy behave, they were in all europe to understand the word can we move flows around where it can be might be distributed in different places and what can the governments help do? so switch those consumers there demand that there are hobby with god to older sustainable

solutions or renewal sources. yeah, no, i think i think it's not just financial. we need to work and technical issues here . mike, this is an opportunity, isn't it? to speed up development in the area of renewables, and in the longer term, renewables should be more energy and cost efficient across the board. oh absolutely, we need to transition faster, but i think we need to be very careful in describing what's happening right now in europe as an opportunity. i mean, the huge suffering, it's huge chunk of the people at the boston for the economic period. remember, they don't own their own homes, they're renting their own homes. you know, the idea that i can somehow find a heat pump. henry place that rickety gas in the immediate future, we need to stop our people dying of cold in the next 2 or 3 months. and i think we need to be very, very careful in present carnival to the time. but do i think that we need to

structurally transition as rich countries away from fossil fuels? and could this maybe this is in a position where we we do that quick, i hope so. but right now much wide about stopping people dying and cold. so if we're looking across europe, which countries can you point to, to be doing a good job so far? protecting the most vulnerable in our society this winter? i think the spanish government is there a good job of implementing semi universal base. you can call which they were before when now talking about well, taxes as well as when full taxes is true. we're seeing when from taxes being implemented, but they're not high enough. you know, during world war 2 and other crises, we see when for taxes of up to 9095 percent on excessive profits. remember these are profits being made above normal, non profit profit making excessively. so these were from taxes could be much,

much higher. and we could also see taxes on the richest people in the last 23 years, starting with kind of 19 and now with the food of energy crises. you've seen that explosion in wealth at the very top, across the rich world. so people are much, much better off at the very top. so i think span needs to be congratulated to thinking about wells. taxes is, what does wind tax the opposite extreme. we have a government here in the u. k, which seems to have picked the worst moment in history to give her why enormous sums of money to the very rich. and i think that suffering politically as a result. so yes, a huge variety across the continent. and you know, any quality is a poverty inequality and poverty are policy choice. you know, people dying of code, that's a policy choice. it doesn't have to happen in europe. this went back to when people are unhappy, they can express it through protests. they can reflect the ballot box if they get

the opportunity. to what extent do you think europe is going to see the more extremist politicians in their political structures? capitalizing on this malays? we certainly see big political shifts and we certainly see voters pushing for change and looking for something different. it remains to be seen whether outside politicians will adopt extreme positions once they're in government or if they will try to govern at least somewhat toward the center. italy is of course we're all eyes are right now. you mentioned taxes, georgia, maloney has said she and her party would like to lower the tax burden on ordinary citizens and lower the labor tax burden. italy has one of the highest ones and yet find ways to keep the country's economy going. so it may be that she'll be able to do this and move toward the center. it may also be that rather than focus

on the sorts of economic measures, they'll just be a lot of frustration and measures designed to draw out that frustration. and that will be worrisome. i may seem simple to ask, but why can the supplies that we've lost from russia simply not be replaced with other supplies from norway, from castle, from the us. you may think there's plenty in the world to go round and why kind of notice be diverted to where it's needed. okay, 1st of all, we are, we were a board in 100 feet. the bcm from ra shall be a pipeline, is a closest up country to europe. and in pipeline a transport is cheaper than energy. ah, there. so there's enough, there's a lot of gas around, but they're all already sold in long term contracts. so most of those contracts are

already signed years ago to say got that with their own by years they already cycle. so it's not that you can just call me and say yes, i want all these. you need those. the fact that your to import guy on that, but that's what i, when i really encourage europe to be a smart, not just build veal, you know, for the sake of because we need more. and then you terminals. we have the case of a state, for example, they build more than 10 years ago. it's a lot of energy terminals that they didn't need it. they haven't needed it. and even if they call it, they come explored more to europe. there wants to be already utilized, could be maybe 60 percent maximum. so that's what we don't want. we don't want the strongest assets. you know, we want, we want that whatever, you know, in space in europe, it will be sustainable for the future. and then does it does that you cannot just bring in nearly all the, all the production from older parts because they need also the best and production

and they need to switch buyers. we have a big issue right now with asia, for example. there are some buy, you're seeing a show that they're struggling to pay for the high energy prices that europe can be . so then we are also having be friends with a wealth in other countries, but these are their energy needs. so we are seen also energy over meaning into older places in the world. so it's, it's very, it's is, let's say, elegy is behaving now as the world commodity. yeah. where all the fees are expected . and then we have seen that the end of this year, i systematically or reliability of, of all of the gas value chain with. so for example, a few days, a goal malaysian energy had a problem with their exports and terminals. their main buyer is one of them in japan. similarly japan trice is like cure long term contract and the government is giving them some not to do it. ok, so everybody in the world want that?

yeah, yeah. rebecca, we haven't got much time left. i want to point out the you have mostly scrambled to get enough gas to cover this wind so but what about next winter? next winter is a big question. it be nice to get through this winter 1st. as you point out, europe has filled up its reserves. so the question now is, will it be able to refill them once it uses them? and that will depend on a lot of these policies we've been discussing today. and mike's what happens when people are simply unable or refuse to pay their bills. what happens then? well, i mean, i think there's a mass protest building in many parts of europe. certainly here the people refusing to pie. and i think a lot of people won't be able to, i don't think there will be increasing an ultimately a lot of suffering. as i said, are you wanting 5 old people dined from code here that you kind of just lost with

you? real, real suffering around the continent and completely unavoidable. this is a policy choice. parker. let's tax corporations effectively fairly low tax, very rich people. let's protect the poorest. ok. invest not transition us. what we need to do. busy annemarie just in the last 30 seconds will the e you do that? hopefully. yes. ok. all right, and then we will leave our discussion today. thank you very much for taking the time to join us rebecca, christy, max lawson and anna maria makeover of it. and thank you to for watching, you can see the program again any time by visiting our website, al jazeera dot com. and for further discussion diggers, while facebook page, that's facebook dot com forward slash ha inside story. you can also join the conversation on twist. we are at a j inside story from me, laura kyle and the whole team here in doha bye for now.

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