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ah reminder top stories on how to 0. britton's prime minister has been accused of running scad for failing to address parliament. days after replacing her finance minister. new chancellor jeremy hunt announced a raft of you turns on last month's controversial, many budget where the rich in tax cuts and scaling back a vast energy support scheme. cool compassion have decided that the basic rate of income tax will remain at 20 percent. and it will do so indefinitely until economic circumstances allow for it to be cut. taken together with the decision not to cut corporation tax and restoring the talk rate of income types, the measures i've announced to day will raise around $32000000000.00 pounds every year. at least 4 people have been killed and 16 injured in drone strikes on ukraine's capital. the early morning attack sent people running for cover

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i ever went, josh, rushing a year in the stream. today we're talking about how new abortion bands of the united states are affecting women. what's your take share your thoughts and experiences in our lives. youtube chat. ah it's been more than a 100 days since the supreme court overturned roe v wade and ended the constitutional right to abortion. the procedure is now banned or severely restricted in more than a dozen states. that means that one and 3 women now live in a state would know abortion access, putting them at risk for worse health outcomes. the bands are also having some unintended consequences. some states are restricting medicine used to treat illnesses like cancer and lupus because they can also be used to end a pregnancy. physicians are hesitant to treat those with high risk pregnancies. listen to this, doctors take. we take this oath to do no harm and i feel like the law is

forcing me to not practice that oath. we had a patient recently whose fetus had a diagnosis of an in cecily. meaning that sort of the top part of the, the fetuses and skull had not formed. this is a lethal diagnosis. this is not something where that baby can survive outside of the womb before the dobbs ruling. we would have been able to care for her at the same hospital where she delivered her last 2 children now because that she still had cardiac activity. we had to refer her out of state. and joining us to talk about the health care landscape and how the healthcare landscape has changed since o row was overturned, is elizabeth nash in washington d. c. she is the principal policy associate at the gut mocker institute. and in cio that focuses on reproductive rights, russell joined by doctor jessica, robina of family medicine, physician from austin, texas,

and michelle good one professor of law at the university of california, an author of police in the womb, invisible, women in the criminalization of motherhood. all right guys, thank you so much for being with us. michelle. i'd like to begin with you because i think this is kind of confusing, particularly for our international audience. that there's this kind of patchwork of laws where it's different all across the us. i'm going to bring up a map on my laptop while you talk about it. and can, you can explain to someone who maybe isn't familiar with the us legal system. why this is so different in what's happening across the u us. and they would be right to be confused of those who are abroad and also in the united states. so after the supreme court ruling in dobbs v jackson women's health, the supreme court struck down roe v wade and planned parenthood b. casey, leaving states to do whatever they want with regard to abortion. so that meant that the state of mississippi could say no abortions in our state with no exceptions for

rape or incest. it meant that other states could say that we have a ban on abortion. after 8 weeks of pregnancy or 12 weeks of pregnancy, it meant that the texas law, sb 8, which bands pregnant rich bands, abortions after 6 weeks of pregnancy with no exceptions for rape or incest. and that also has a bounty hunter provision. i was lawful the supreme court. it already ruled that that law could go into effect essentially by failing to intervene. so across the country, we have states doing different things. but i will say this in states like new york, illinois, california, colorado. there are folks in kansas fighting back saying that there is a constitutional right in their states to be able to, to terminate a pregnancy. or at least if it's not written into their constitutions, it's something that they're legislatures have made clear that folks in those states

are safe to have abortions. what, jessica, what does it mean you're in texas, and i'm so look at this map on my laptop and texas is listed as one of the most restrictive states in the union. what, what does that mean for you as a doctor? and what does that mean for some of your patience? yeah, thanks so much for having me. so i am a family medicine physician and i specialize in abortion care. and the reality is, is actually as a texas provider, i have always over the last 4 to 5 years, i've always worked under restrictions in texas. so we always had rules about who could do the ultrasound. we had rules about who like the information i had to give my patients and what i was allowed to say. so i always had that then about a year ago, s b 8 started. that was the 6 week ban. that was almost a complete shut down of things. and then now of course, since ro, it's been several months. and basically it's a day to day struggle. every patient visit is much more difficult than it was because obviously i'm not doing abortions. i'm not able to do any,

and that's regardless of the health of the person in front of me why they need that abortion. i mean there's no, there's just no exceptions. so it's just a flat. it's a flat band at this point. well, we might also add to that point that in texas, as you were just mentioning, that these restrictions have been going on for some time. then that is also lead in some ways to texas being one of the most dangerous places to be pregnant. even before dogs with very high rates of maternal mortality, which some attribute to the fact that clinics had to close just in the wake of all of that anti abortion legislating that was taking place in texas over the years. and michelle, you mentioned dobbs, it was the case, the supreme court case that overturned roe v. wade. sorry. go ahead. jessica. yeah, i had a patient who was severely ill. and so regardless of what we think, oh, there might be an exception for something like that. so it's very dangerous in

texas to be pregnant. she was someone who is in kidney failure. i mean a pregnancy for her is, i mean that's a death sentence for her. and so we had to tell someone who was pregnant and kidney failure, that they needed to leave the state to get an abortion. but even just telling someone, even, just not doing their abortion in that moment. and instead sending someone who's very sick, also who's pregnant across state lines, all that traveling. i mean, on the way there she could have died of a blood clot. it's not, it's not a safe situation that it's shocking. oh, well, hold on. i want to bring her of someone from our community. this is amanda meto. she's a senior director of planned parenthood, but a ration of america. and then we're going to come to you elizabeth next. so sam, by just 2nd, 3 months since the fall of fro, the nation is in a public health crisis. nearly one 3rd of us states have abortion bands and

a fact. one and 3rd, american women have lost the right to control their bodies. and in states where abortion is still protected, planned parenthood health centers are seeing a huge increase in patients. there's a health center on the border of illinois and missouri that has already seen a 30 percent increase. wait times have gone from 4 days to 2 and a half weeks. banning abortion does not stop people from needing abortion. it puts people's lives at danger. and elizabeth, i know you keep a close eye on this across the country. what, what is happening with clinics as we speak? so, you know, what we've seen in the states that have band abortion where there were $66.00 clinics total. that, that almost a 3rd of them have had to entirely close. and then the remaining 2 thirds have been able to stay open, but providing other reproductive health care. and i think this is actually a critical point. what jessica was talking about. the conversations are having with

patients in many states, a pregnant person who is having a severe physical health condition, or there's a condition with the pregnancy. sometimes the providers, particularly like the fetal medicine providers, are having trouble even having these conversations. because the providers are scared that they will be violating the abortion pan by simply providing information . so patients are very confused when they're having these coded conversations with health care providers who are actually trying to transmit information in a way that doesn't put them in risk of legal jeopardy. there's that. and then when we think about all of these states with abortion bands, you're thinking about 19200000 women of reproductive age living in the states. and they're said and these states are right. it's primarily the south, like we saw on the map, right? the south in the mid west. so it's not simply the issue of crossing one state water

or causing walton state borders right. was up job. well yes it part of the problem is that it's not just women and adults with the capacity for pregnancy, but we're also talking about children, right? we're talking about a girl 10 years old who was raped when she was 9, having to flee the state of ohio to get to indiana in order to be able to terminate that pregnancy. and then the attorney general in that state, and it's a political office where he then goes on national news saying that he wanted to investigate the doctor that her forms that abortion, or were talking about a woman in louisiana who was diagnosed with having a fetus with no, scull development, but in that state being denied an abortion even though that is a fatal condition for the fetus or we're talking about florida. we're a 16 year old girl who is without parents has no parents and sought to have an

abortion. a judicial bypass where a judge ruled that she's too immature to have an abortion, but seemingly mature enough to become a parent at the age of 16. and this is not episodic, i mean we're talking about systemic failures across the country. and if we just look at mississippi, the state that brought the challenge to the supreme court, that's a state where if you are a black woman, you are 118 times more likely to die by carrying a pregnancy to term than by having an abortion we haven't even touched on maternal mortality and the backdrop of the us. yeah, i'm an actor, show the audience, something on my laptop right now with maternal mortality in the u. s. where it shows it just fall strips out of other industrialized nations. it's a 23 point, a mess with them like a 100000 live birth. whereas with francis, like a 3rd of that, the next one, just as a doctor, like what's going on there?

why are well, is this really points out something that i think a lot of people wouldn't necessarily think this all cause it just doesn't affect just people who say i want an abortion. it affects all the health care surrounding that. because having an abortion reproductive healthcare is part of our whole person. so i have people now i had someone just in the other day who is going through a normal process of a miscarriage, but a desired pregnancy. it was a very traumatic process for her because she wanted that pregnancy she had so much block blood loss during it that she lost consciousness 2 times and still didn't go to the hospital because she was afraid that they, she was like, i don't know, will they put me in jail, will they think i tried to do the abortion on my own. she was like, i swear to you. i didn't it. so it's even visits. i have now every single visit in my office even for i u. d. 's. the question always comes back to yeah, but what am i going to do? what happens if this doesn't work?

because most forms of birth control that all that i can think of have some failure rate. so this inevitably spans out and affects all of the health care force. it puts all of us in more danger. does it make you feel criminalized as a doctor? did you ever imagine feeling this way when you went through most golden? but what you're going to be doing with the career now, but once i got here to texas and started doing abortions, i realized that that was the landscape here. and it was only gonna get worse. so then i kind of expected it, but i mean, i didn't know it would be to the point where i worry about what i put in a patient chart. our patient charts were supposed to be able to write the most detailed, accurate information. so the next clinician can look at that patient pick up the care, know what's going on. that's part of good medical care. and in the meantime, i'm worried as someone can a subpoena, someone else for these records and pull these records and is the patient going to get in trouble at? it's affected everything about what we do. i want to bring in some comments from our you tube audience. this is from someone named the shawl,

says health wellbeing should be the 1st priority. and this is from div boudreaux who says, i'm an american, i think this is terrible forcing women to give birth. this is massage, honest, and pro poverty. so you want to kind of of reform pro poverty, anglo mas michelin, well, i, well, i would say, you know, it's, it's, it is pro pop poverty. but i would also say that it's involuntary reproductive servitude. it is forcing girls women people with the capacity for pregnancy to endure pregnancies which are already highly risky in the united states. united the u. s. supreme court in 2016 reported that. and this was based on other empirical studies that a woman is 14 times more likely to die by carrying a pregnancy to term that by having an abortion in the united states. so even with that information that the supreme court had you put that in the backdrop of what we're talking about today. and it is a deadly proposition. but the 13th amendment of the united states constitution

prohibits slavery an involuntary servitude. and this is another form of it, and we need to recognize it as such. and elizabeth does this reflect the majority of americans opinion on us? well, know that part of the issue is that the vast majority of the american public supports abortion rights. it's just that the politicians don't have the same values and there's a long history of how the elections have changed and you know, where states have republican control and what that means. and frankly, what that means is a lot of what michelle and jessica are talking about around limited access to pregnancy care. you know, they aren't putting in place the programs and the policies they need to protect maternal health. and so then you add an abortion band on top of it and you really see the harm that is being done. and it,

you have to have vast inequities by race and that's by design. and so we're really seeing the impact of these conservative legislatures in a way that doesn't reflect their constituencies. for example, in indiana, there was a special session on abortion. now an abortion band was passed, but frankly, there was a line 10 hours long of people coming out to say that they support abortion rights . and the legislature pretty much ignored them. so there's a long way to go to have the publics be represented by their legislatures. and we have to remember to that because of our systemic racism because of the way our society is built that are pregnancy, even a healthy otherwise healthy pregnancy does not affect everyone the same way. for some people it means it's a happy experience is that supported experience in a supported community for some people it's a stressful experience that they do not have the money for. and then so for some

people needing to get an abortion like even now needing to get an abortion, if you're a privilege person in texas, you could take a vacation to colorado for the weekend. but for someone else that 100 percent means they cannot get out of the state and they will have to carry that pregnancy to term . it's not it's not even equal consequences for everyone in this country. speaking of august 23rd and i would jane cro. o as in say that is is the new jane crow. right. i mean it is just like the systems of jim crow that we experience which people understand because they saw the videos, they saw the photo images. we know how cruel jim crow was racialized political oppression in the united states. and now we have a version of that. that is a political oppression of women girls and people with the capacities for pregnancy . and there is a racial overlay to this as well because it means that those that are at the intersections of being poor and being a poor person of color feel the heavy weight of the political restrictions against

abortion. for those women, it is very difficult to be able to take time off for work. it is very difficult to be able to afford the child care. it is very difficult to afford the gas, the train fear the airfare to be able to get out of state. these are the problems of these times. and so when we're thinking about those cars just to, to flag for everyone. a typical abortion on average, across the country. so, you know, maybe not in your state cost about $550.00. and then when you start to add in 3 for days travel, you can imagine the hundreds of additional dollars that that's going to entail. for gas, for hotel, for food, for other incidentals. and so imagine trying to pull all that a $1000.00 together very quickly. and because 75 percent of abortion patients are low income. you know, when they're leaving work,

they probably are not getting paid time off. so that's also money out of the pockets of those people trying to make this journey, leaving their safety, their social networks in their home. it's really an insurmountable burden to really ask of people and elizabeth we talk about traveling to other states, what's happening to the clinics that are still open on the borders of states where it's been restricted. so what we see not just on the, on the borders of, of these states where abortion is available, but also, you know, further afield into states like washington state or maryland. what you're seeing are delays and accessing care. and it's not unusual for these delays to be 4 weeks. and those weeks are critical when you're thinking about getting care, right? sure. many people do recognize a pregnancy around 6 or 7 weeks, but not every one. and so if you're adding in 4 weeks, additional bomb delay you're, you're making this journey very,

very hard. and in fact, putting that insurmountable burden straight in front of the face of these patients . notably, most of those individuals who will be seeking to terminate their pregnancies are already parents are already mothers. right. and so when we think about what is already a national crisis, even outside of the context of abortion, the fact that we have not invested in the infrastructure of child here. now adding this lawyer on, i is just a burden that is seemingly too much to bear a for so many. and elizabeth, much of this is at stake as we're looking at mid term elections in the you, us as to what could happen here because there are 2 competing laws in congress right now. one that would and shrine abortion rights. and one that would permanently take them away. and i think it's interesting that the congress is now considering this,

they had 50 years to consider it while row was in place. and they didn't take it up . but it seems like maybe there's more of an appetite pick up now was was, can you kind of walk us through what the midterm elections mean for this issue? sure, so i think, you know, there are a couple of things to keep in mind when piece. yes is congress and the senate. what is happening there? and clearly it, there is no trend that the democrats are going to pre shane. both the house and the senate, or that the republicans are going to take over the senate or even the house to everything is very unclear. so it's not so we don't know exactly what will happen at the state level. we also have hundreds and thousands of elections happening in state houses across the country and statewide offices. and of course, this is where the battle has been for so long. it's in these state houses, and given that districts are so, jerry mander, it may be very difficult to see more than a small change in the state legislatures. and the hope is that some of these state

white offices like for governor and attorney general, can stay in the hands or to flip to be in the hands of those who support abortion rights. because we need to have those bull works in place to start rebuilding because we have to push back against these abortion bands says that we can greet, you know, recover from what we are now. michelle. another consequence of the gobs decision is just as thomas's opinion might open up taking away a handful of other rights. i wanna show my audience now it could question griswold, which said that mary couples had the right to use contraception. a good question, lawrence, which struck down laws that criminalize gay sex and it could strike down. oh, a burger fell, which legalize same sex marriage and i might even throw in loving, which legalize interracial marriage. can you talk? yes. so in justice thomas's concurring opinion,

he suggested that every area of privacy that the supreme court has visited upon and has led to rights for vulnerable groups should be called into question and should also be overturned. notably, he made an exception with regard to loving, which was the 1967 case that struck down of anti massage in asia laws that bard black people and white people for marriage. now that is the one area where he said there was an action, notably justice thomas would be affected by that personally himself. but he did open the door for challenges with regard to same sex marriage contraception and more so people should be worried. and even though justice, the lido and justice cavanaugh said that there are guard rails protecting those of privacy rights. you shouldn't trust that with this court at all. it would be wrong to give too much deference to this court to protect those rights as well. it needs to be congress's job to represent the people here, right?

and to say, what rights they have or not. well, we wish that congress would have addressed this long before, but i think that the reason why they had not is that it is highly unusual that the supreme court strips away, right. i think that there was the understanding when grovee wade is a 72 opinion and 5 of those justices were republican appointed. i think there was no sense that there needed to be a worry about roe v. wade and clearly legislators over time were wrong. that there were those waiting in the bush, just ready to pounce. i got about a minute left here and i want to know how are you going to continue being a doctor there in texas? i a frankly, i'm not i'm, but i don't have much longer before i'm going to be leaving the clinic. i've been in because it's untenable. i mean, i have to look at every patient in the face and decide team bad medical care or, and legal medical care versus good medical care. and at is not a position. i mean,

i just, if, if texas wanted to have worse health outcomes than they already do, if they wanted all good doctors to lead from the state, then i think that's exactly what they're going to get. wow, that's it for our show today. listen if you want to learn more about this, if you want to see elizabeth more, jessica more. you can check out fault lines where we, we have them both in that program is called the end of ro. we're going to post a you to link right now and the youtube chat for this episode. otherwise, thank you everyone for joining us, elizabeth jessica, michelle. and of course you watching love. ah ah

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