hoping that you guys actually shall pinzo be lawyers. so your goal is and the mentor within and they will be able to know, you know, just implement them. whoa, i feel a mock in the, in this is adrian and alex. yeah. they're in a similar diamond daddy so that i was back in this in for today. but again, if any man so all i can do one little bit, but out of you out, it says view men, so i that's in there but then i remembered okay. doesn't damien ah hello again, mrs. al jazeera and these are the headlines. luna da silva has pulled off a political comeback and brazil. he has won

a tightly contest in presidential run off election against fall rice incumbent gyal finra to the one with 50.9 percent of the verse. that's just a one percent difference from his wife i. ready the most essential task is to ensure that every child, every woman, every man can have breakfast, lunch, and dinner every day. we're going to bring back the ministry of culture. we're going to create a public commission so that culture can become something that everyone has access to. so that culture can become an industry that produces jobs. those who are afraid of culture, of those who don't like the people who don't like freedom. meanwhile, those supporters of incumbent ball sanara have expressed their disbelief and disappointment. at the result. the far right leader has not yet made a speech. conceding the election, the death toll from a bridge collapse and india has risen to at least

a 132 military teams of launched rescue operations in the state of good to route. hundreds of people fell into the river when tables supporting that protest, ryan bridge snapped boldly, could be read the book to logo. many children were enjoying holidays for dueli, and they came here as tourists. all of them fell one on top of him over the bridge collapsed. due to weather loading, a number of explosions have been heard and the ukrainian capital kids local government officials say there have been at least 40 strikes on monday. the attacks come just days after a drone attack in crimea. south korea's president has joined mourners at a shrine to the victims of a crush in soles. it's a one district units of jewel and his wife laid flowers at memorial. more than a 150 people were killed in that crowd sat on saturday. nearly a 100 people and now confirmed dead after tropical storm now gay hit the philippines on friday,

the death toll is expected to ride dozens austell missing. lebanon's president michelle own left, his official residence on sunday. his mandate will end and midnight. on monday, the 89 year old leaders tenure has in a financial meltdown and the 2020 beirut port explosion. well, those are the headlines. i'll be back with more news here after upfront. both jen and you said the police violently dispersing protest this. these are sort of a book, tens of thousands of people try to flee, cobble inspired to program, making, welcome to generation chains, unrivalled with broadcasting. white people did not want black children in the schools. we have to fight for algebra english proud recipient of the new york festivals broadcaster the year award for the sick year running georgia. maloney is italy's 1st female prime minister. she takes office as the head of the most far right coalition. since benito mussolini dictatorship. she's the latest in

a line of female nationalists occupying high ranking political positions like francis marine, la penn, and germany's alice vital bologna is a cent, has been linked to a phenomenon known as federal nationalism where feminist ideas are used to advance a nationalist agenda. but why did women join far right movements in the 1st place when they so often infringe on women's rights? and what happens when it's with women at the head of a populous nationalist meeting? that's our conversation this week on upfront. ah, joining me to discuss this are sarah ferris, associate professor in sociology ed goldsmith's university of london, an author of in the name of women's rights. the rise of federal nationalism by anti fernando is associate professor of anthropology at the university of california santa cruz. and cynthia miller interest is director of the polarization and extremism research and innovation lab at american university. she's also the author of heat in the homeland,

the new global far right. thank you for joining me on up front, sada, i'm going to start with you, you coined the term federal nationalism. can you talk to me about sort of where this term comes from and how it evolved over time? christa was finacialow them a for those who know not term, is short for me, needs them and the nationalism. it is a term that i have introduced to describe but the way in which nationally, right wing parties are you was a mainstream feminist ideas and generic ideas of gender equality, particularly in there on that migration and slum campaign. but this term also refers to notify me sir, who has proposed the or indoors the anti used lumber legislation, thereby converging gra, with national nice to and when i speak of anti legislation, i think for example of the vail bounce in a country like france where younger muslim women could not wear the he shot but in

public schools. so i think when ashley isn't because you asked how he has a goal of the over time, i think it has definitely intensified since 911. we have seen more and more right wing the nationalist, political formation. so using an instrument allies, the ideas, a women's rights by the equally with the migration. and he's level 4 because campaigns. so this is to be in emerging pattern where many far right movements feature women and important positions. we thought we saw this most recently in italy with the election of the most far right coalition, since benito mussolini dictatorship headed by georgia maloney making i heard the country's 1st female prime minister. she's talking about limiting abortions. she's against employment quotas for women policies. one can argue hurt most women, but many like former us presidential candidate, hillary clinton,

appraising her victory, saying, quote, the election of the 1st woman, prime minister in a country always represents a break with the past. and that is certainly a good thing. why do you think many self describe feminist, like hillary clinton see maloney as a win for feminism and are overlooking her far right policies. while i think in the case of clinton for example, or there is certainly be a kind of idea back to if we met when election, if we might gain prominence roles within political formations come come, how these is again for families or not, but maloney easy got no family in any way, maloney actually stays at several times so that she thinks women she should stick to their roles as mothers, they should be more christian and that they certainly shouldn't have been a bush. she fights against the so called gender theory, ease again,

the same sex marriage and adoptions by almost sexual capital. so, and in the sense, in fox to her victory, ease, dramatic defeat, for feminism and adage, b q writes a man, what are your thoughts? there was a 2019 analysis of 7 european countries and showed that over 40 percent of votes for the radical right. it came from women, and in italy, a maloney's party, brothers of italy received more votes from women than any other party. what interest do, and i'm not asking to speak for women collectively, but what might be some possibilities for why women would be invested in electing someone like maloney? well, i don't think necessarily that women boat as a block, right? women have very different interests. as we've seen with maloney as we've seen with other right wing leaders. i think it's, i think it's a mistake to assume that just because one of the women one is going to vote for some this to gender. and i think that there are ways in which so called traditional

family values, an anti l g b t q, platform, immigration and to immigration, you know, legislation, all of those things speak to women as much as they do to men. and i think it's not surprising in sometimes that there are lots and lots of women who vote for whitening agenda and kind of anti feminist agenda in part because a lot of women don't identify feminists including georgia maloney herself. right. so be another example of this trend is hungary, president capital and novak who was nominated by far right. prime minister, victor or bonds for dish party. after serving as a government administer of family affairs. when we see women, whole prominent positions within authoritarian or autocratic government, is that still an improvement on the patriarchy of the past? or is it just a new way to legitimize authoritarianism? i think, you know, one of the things that's really important to distinguish is women's empowerment

from actual women's rights are women's are feminist goals. and i think a lot of what we see sometimes also in the extreme far right is women who now feel more empowered often through kind of social media engagements. to be leaders in a way that was excluded for them before. but that leadership doesn't necessarily mean that they're, that they're promoting goals that are going to be adding rights for other women or for marginalized groups across the board. and we saw that with, you know, the weapon is ation of motherhood. for example, is a really clear example where with the tea party sarah palin was calling on women to be kind of mama grizzlies and protect your cubs from government overreach or from immigrants or whatever it is. right? so a lot of this can attract women, especially when women are in charge, you know, and it's a woman calling on you to lean into your role as a mother or as a wife for lina. and that's exactly the reason i think that is liberal feminism is

making a very different argument about women don't identifies right. and so quite frankly, they have no investment in advance the feminist agenda. right. but some of these women use the hillary clinton example. do identify as feminist they're taking on or they're endorsing their supporting the victories of women leaders who are who, who victory signal really the undermining of feminist goals around all sorts of empower. absolutely. i think we have to hold the contradiction sort of in our hands while we're understanding, as you can't assume that a woman is going to be supportive of any rights for women. and in fact, in these cases, we're seeing repeatedly the majority of women who voted for trump in 2016 and again in whenever you think that is the perfect example. 20162020. the majority of white women in the united states of america voted for dominic priest in 2020 went up to 25 and i'm baffled by right. i mean 26 women accusing sexual misconduct.

he introduced policies that chip away, women's health, women's, economic, security, etc. i don't know it's mind boggling. you fast forward even to the capital insurrection. on january 6, 2021 women represented 14 percent of people being arrest and some of the really violent people as well. right. islands, why there's so many women united states shifting to the far right. it just seems so counterintuitive to me. i think, you know, there are a lot of different things. one, i think women are they, they are enjoying those leadership roles that they couldn't before. right. so the white women have always been involved. let's say somebody was making the ku klux klan hoods right there. there's sewing there, homeschooling, they're cooking right. they have always supported these violent white supremacy movements and other far right movements throughout history. but now they are able to step into leadership roles in large part because a lot of this happens in social media spaces where they are able to step away from some of the massage, any or the harassment that they might have experienced in other settings. and so

they're taking advantage of that and, but they, but we can't count on women just because they're women, especially white women. as we've seen. we cannot count on these women to, to be doing anything in their leadership roles that are supporting women's rights or anyone else's rights for that matter. i want to drill down on this, this, this question of whiteness as well. my auntie, what do you make of the idea that fellow nationalism is predominately supported by those who institutionally benefit from from whiteness it is. we're down to a drive in many ways to protect the privileges associated with race. yes, i think it does. and i think what you see, as i mentioned earlier, you know, some nationalism is heavily linked with a kind of anti phobic discourse about too many muslim immigrants about, you know, the supposed massage of the texas muslim man versus the enlightened gender politics of white men, european men, and so i think race has a lot to do with this. i do think religion also has

a lot to do with this in the sense that the climate race and religion in europe right. in 2016 the far right french politician reading the pen, stated, i am scared that the migrant crisis signals the beginning of the end of women's rights. this again, points to the idea that non western migrants are a threat to women's rights to women's values. and therefore we need immigration laws that are more restrictive. but what does it say about how we're defining women's rights today? when someone actually say that women's rights are under threat, which women are they talking about? right, well i will say to say, i think 2 things are important to keep in mind here. one is that the issue of insecurity, right, of feeling unsafe, a feeling insecure socially is actually getting at something real. and that is partly due or actually in some ways,

largely due to the kind of cuts in social program. the, you know, you cannot make no liberal policies that all of these governments have put through, including, you know, in france and italy, all over europe. and so there is a sense, i think, amongst a lot of people feeling, you know, socially insecure. now i think what happens is that, that feeling of social insecurity get deferred onto black and brown immigrants. and so, rather than taking care of the kind of the sense of social insecurity and i mean, economic insecurity that many, many people who are not wealthy in europe are feeling a solution then become immigrants. let's get rid of immigrants rather than let's actually deal with economic policy that makes people more secure and come back to the question of women's rights. in the sense that, i think i mentioned the know earlier. if we understand women's rights and the strictly kind of abstract sense, right,

then kind of far right women's right discourse makes sense. but if we, if we think about what women actually need in their real life, things like health care, things like child care. you know, the kind of social security that many women need. then i think the women's rights discourse takes on a very different kind of flavor. and so it's not really surprising to me that someone like hillary clinton would laud the election of georgia maloney as a feminist. you know, a feminist arrival of sorts. because hillary clinton's understanding is feminism is largely right space versus, you know, let's call it accept based on materialists, write about material, goods and material rights for women like access to abortion and not just right to abortion, but actually access for poor and rural women to abortion. which has been, you know, undermined again and again and again by republican policies. but the kind of liberal feminist discourse has been about the right to abortion rather than access

. and i think that, that, that is, it is a problem with a kind of liberal feminism. frankly, that's an important distinction you're making. in cynthia, you've written about the quote fantasy of a white ethnic state, the white supremacists desire for a white, a white homeland, basically at the root of this is great replacement theory, which is a conspiracy about the global plot to drive white people, to extinction and gasp replace them with black and brown people. you've written about how anti abortion movements, including in the united states, have capitalized on this fear of a decline in the white population. you know, the kind of birth rates continue, explain how this manufactured fear of white extinction has been exploited by the anti abortion groups. these scapegoating fears of like white civilization dying out, you know, has always, has been there for decades at least for, you know,

for longer. but there's, you've seen language around birth rates, declining birth rates and you know, and then the boundaries of whiteness opening up also. right. so like bringing more people in the italians, the irish people that used to be excluded on the census suddenly become white, right? to keep keep whiteness boundaries opening up, i would say at the same time as you have these fears about the climbing birthrates and demographic change. so, you know, we see that right now with this call for like to call on white women to have more white babies essentially. right. the pro natal is kind of claim about that but feeding right into right into arguments about, about replacement, essentially like that. that is your obligation to do that. and so i think some of the language around motherhood around being a mother around protecting your cubs is also kind of coded with language about white mothers. it's about, it's really about a specific kind of mother and about because it's not, it's not

a young immigrant mother who's coming in with, with 4 or 5 kids that they're applauding here. right. it's definitely like the, the style just for some kind of fantasy of a 1950 housewife with 6 white babies that they're raising up to replace these kinds of civilization. so i think that's really important to understand. the history is a part of what make the narrative compelling. right? so, i mean, there's a way that when we in the united states where i'm sitting here, oh, we're going to go liberate those women. those women can't go out of the house without a male part of those people have to wear over garments is a very particular way that these matters are compelling. because of the long history of patriarchy massage, any. how do we disentangle those things? the reality of the patriarchy, but also the real danger and reinforcing a nationalist project through federal nationalism. yes, definitely. in the west, we have seen that is, i mean, this not receives about, you know, the why to europe,

piano, you are american civilization. saving the rest of the war than particularly we manage from backward the cultural religious practices you name to mean it's a 20 year old. i mean, even colonialism that was justified in these ways. and the natives in that, in the colonies were portrayed as in theory or not even as fully human beings. and so in that sense. and what i would say is that there was a certain narrative amongst the many white western families that to and in many ways the rights that women as conquered are through coming back to us in the west. somehow makes the gender make agenda relations in the west of superior to those in other countries in the somehow gives why we made that in europe when the america kind of moral superiority for this women is the pizza somehow, le more

a duty to show these women the past, the to real emancipation and i think what is very much forgotten is that colonialism certainly had a very important role in that, in many ways that even that preventing or somehow blocking the, the fight for women thrive in some of these, all of these colonies the last thing that i always tell my students is that in egypt and the rights for women to vol to ease conquered in 1950, if 56 are in switzer lambda, we men that have the full right to vote in 1991. so this is all to say that we really need to understand these histories, the and the implication off the really western colonialism, a west or not received there in how gender relations women's rights are of been

portrayed around the world. since you've written about how historically white women have been part of the radical right, you talked about it earlier. you said they're the one sewing the k k costume. that's right. and they've been part of the kick, a k, the part of the pro, not see a german american wound up. but within these movements, women often face massage need. how do women in these movements sort of experience massage any harassment. gender violence is they participate in this right far, right. political activity. well, in some cases they're completely excluded, right? so we have groups like the proud boys who don't allow women and all right. so you still have some of these. and of course growing men's rights and in cell and violent mel supremacist movements. there's a lot of that side of it on the white supremacist side. you know, we also see that one of the major reasons, if not the major reason why women leave these movements, is because of the massage in the harassment and sexual violence that they

experience at the hands of men in those movements. you know, but we also find that in this moment of social media, when we have now and there's a young scholar name of an id who was about to have a book on this. i've just read which is about women influencers and social media spaces on youtube and other places where they are really, you know, embedding, homeschooling and cooking and kind of related content with white supremacist extremist content at the same time. right. and it's very instagram ish like in the sense statically with like, you know, there's always like a white black white woman in a field of wheat with little dappled deer. and you know, like, and in the woods with the light, is very statically pleasing. you know very much this kind of like farm to table purity of organic food embedded into the purity of your race and the way you're right. you know, very insidious and, and there's a lot of that on a lot more than you think. and, and i think it connects to women's hobbies in some cases and to their sense of self

in their own kind of empowerment if you will, at the same time, is there really horrific, you know, exclusionary ideas, anti immigrant is on the phobic, racist ideas that they're expressing but embedded as like, you know, this kind of you know, rustic motherhood, homeschooling package. and so i think there's a lot going on that social media platforms and online spaces have enabled as women have been able to forge this. and i hate to say kind of empowered spaces online that enable them to find a whole new channel and a whole new voice for expressing hateful content. part of what makes me hope is that i see feminist, who are recognizing what we're talking about. they see through and they reject them a nationalist ideas, whether it's maloney, whether it's le pen, whether it's standing up to people like victor or by and they are doing the work. and so it makes me wonder, as we, as we sort of conclude here, what does an international inclusive feminist movement look like?

that address is a global inequality. may i start with you? sure. i think what you just said about doing the work is really important. and i think these movements have to start on the ground and they have to do the work on the ground. they have to do the work of figuring out how to deal with inequality. figuring out how to deal with social insecurity, figuring out how to deal with unemployment with, you know, health care with all of that sort of social issues that, that people care about. and, and i, so i think any kind of international feminist movement really has to start there rather than in a kind of abstract, right discourse, which is where i think unfortunately it kind of, you know, white, middle class liberal feminism has, has largely been so i think that's certainly where i would start. i think it has to start on the ground during the work. i think i agree, and i would add that i think we have to understand that our lack of policies for child care for the cost of higher education for maternity paternity leave

contribute to the attractiveness of some of these movements. the ones that i talked about for young women who feel like the system isn't working for me and i want an alternative and someone is out there offering escape, goat, fear mongering and alternative. so it makes them manipulative. rhetoric kind of and propaganda even more persuasive to some people. and so the propaganda is, is made more attractive by our failure to address some of the basic issues of, of how people live in a life and how they can imagine a future for themselves. so i'll give you the last word. well, i completely agree with law has been there. just said, maybe just a word of the whole. i also feel are a little bit more optimistic in some ways that in the sense that i think the majority of we can say by means organizations the self identifying feminist. so i think now they understand a pretty well the insidiousness of

a few more nationalism and maybe $11.00 thing that i would say that gives me hope in the sense that is the way in which a news from iran are commented. it is true that in some cases so as you can imagine, some commentators jumped to say that the problem is again, islam. and that islam does not to protect women's rights. but i see increasingly that actually the certainly the majority of feminist to, with all my speak, but even just reading the paper, sir, what is happening in iran, there is really much what is really received as a problem. we are a and oppressive regime that ease of denying that women their freedom of choice or when he comes to choose what they can wear. and in that sense, this is to say, think that these awareness or better the bashing of islam of the bashing of

immigrants for example, is really a nationalist right wing. the strategy that has not played with in a truly progressive feminist agenda, i think is much more internalized by the younger generations of families. so, and this gives me some hope that certainly is a sign of hope, but i want to pick all of you for you. brilliant analysis or sentiment of you. thanks so much for joining us for everybody that is our show. a front will be back . ah, we are all principals, even people far away are so helping with the environment, problems in the amazon because their consumers, i teach kids about the threats that our oceans are facing today. i've been working in earnest, trying to find ways to get this language up to them. kids went away do as the ocean

wire. yes. and what are you going to do to keep out the sort of language that keeps the rental blood women, right. say that they have one, several back over their fight for equality and gotten america. and i was told the thing that was texting women, we made a challenge in the region. i will not stop being pro my i won't sleep. we don't have read them evinced buddy. leaves about 2 weeks now, 3 days, journey to a show club. we wish the new grade. so one destroys our country and someone's needs to rebuild. that british she, rocky journalist who's visualizing complex statistics and a simple art form, i think it offers us some really exciting opportunities to break apart from those systems of power and to collect data in a way that back to represent different communities, challenging mainstream misconceptions. i hope the fi crate can handle ministration

doesn't alienate people, it doesn't make people feel like i'm not mine from the sense booth. truth is it. anyway on al jazeera, after world war 2, frances great empire began to unravel in vietnam tomorrow. so everybody was trained themselves into the st, bursting with joy kissing each other. and algeria, he lives and or she knew as if the endo chinese that managed to beat the french army. why not die? the decline continues and episode 2 of blood and tears, french di colonization on al jazeera. i me a political come back in brazil.