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tv   Inside Story  Al Jazeera  November 1, 2022 8:30pm-9:01pm AST

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hope is as many as half the fans attending matches will use dill hog metro. it debuted in $219110.00 cars will make up 270-0000 trips each day. the red lines, concordy, 1000 people, every 165 seconds which can handle the demand of the of the spectator. but anyhow alike of this is the nature of the tournament. all the spectators should expect some delays controlling crowds and keeping the p set footballs. premier event is every host countries greatest challenge. nearly 50000 security personnel have been trained and multiple exercises have been held with international partners to prepare for pazzar 2020 to work hand in hand with before. we are confident with the plans that we have in place of safety and security for us as of the utmost importance. whether it's navigating the journey or
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the crowds that match or concert. the organizing committee says, planning and patience will create an enjoyable and see hold cup experience for all natasha n a. l. jazeera, doha. ah, hello, are you watching? al jazeera these, the headlines this our israel is holding its 5th election in less than 4 years. analysts say the biggest issue is where the vote is a for or against formulated benjamin netanyahu, who's facing corruption charges. what is different this time around in the 5th elections and in certain, in the last 30 years here is that benjamin netanyahu is not the prime minister. benjamin netanyahu doesn't manage to get those 61. see if it is that connect and no one manages to form a government, then you will have your lab. he'd remain as the caretaker prime minister until
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another round of elections, which will probably be early next year. and i have to tell you quite a few people quite a few voters will tell you, well, you know what, it looks like. we're just going to go to another election because of the fractious nature of israeli politics. supporters of brazilian president j a ball scenario have blocked roads across the country. after he last sunday's run off load truck drivers in the nation's largest city, south palo have been protesting on the road leading to the international air force for people in denmark of picking and new parliament, 14 parties of buying for 179 saves. there, the political battle is between the incumbent to left wing block and right where you candidates, search and rescue. james in the philippines are still looking for bodies in the aftermath of tropical storm. now gay, at least 110 people were killed. more than half of the fatalities were from flash floods and landslides. dozens is still missing, and 800000 have been forced from their homes. and russian missile strikes have
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destroyed half an apartment building in the ukrainian port city of mich alive. an elderly woman is believed to have been killed in the attack. the strikes come a day after russia targeted energy facilities across ukraine. they caused a power outages in a number of cities and water shortages in the capital cave. all right, those are the headlines i met emily anguish. the news continues here after inside story. ah, the democratic republic of congo has expelled little wonder ambassador. it accuses kigali of supporting rebels in the east. fighting has displayed thousands of people . is a why is it been difficult to end the conflict? is it time for a new approach?
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this is inside story. ah hello, welcome to the program. i'm still robin relations between democratic republic of congo and rwanda. have hit a new low. the colonies government has expelled ruined, and ambassador, it's long accused. golly, of supporting the m. 23 rebel group in the north keyvi province in the east. fighting between rebels and the congolese army has intensified in the past few months with fighters capturing 2 towns last week. the united nations has urged m 23 to disarm unconditionally. in august, a u. n. report found evidence of rwanda's military supporting the rebels. but the rwandan government has repeatedly denied the accusations. the conflict has
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displaced nearly 40000 people in a week. well, don't require much. asked william, there was 1 o'clock in the morning when we heard gunshots after which fled because the situation was getting so bad. just the museum boom. the m 23 fighters were raining bullets all over. i've been h. that's why we had to escape to stay alive. we wanted the authorities to find somewhere to live. we've got nothing to eat because they fled with nothing. and here we all with the children on the road. the conflict has triggered protests in the eastern con, glee, city of gamma, and capital of north keepers. province. people denounce the president of wonder and uganda, which is also accused of supporting him 23 rebels, and some coal for russia's help saying gears of western interventions have failed them over because we need put in here and congo. because we are disappointed with the united states for 60 years, we have been in the u. s, but there's no infrastructure. the army still wanted yesterday and infiltrated army
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. we are suffering. and it was of, was that we know how one country so now we all know about the march 23 movement, 2 and 23. as it's known as the congolese revolutionary army. it's a rebel military group based in the eastern areas of democratic republic of congo. mainly in the province of north t, through its leadership is made up of members of the to the ethnic group. they say that aim is to fight, and the group sounded by hutus who fled rwanda. after the 1994 genocide, the rebels merge with the congress army under 2009 p steel. but in 2012 they said the agreement had not been upheld and broke away. naming that group and $23.00 more than $120.00 of the rubble groups operate in the region. ah,
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well let's bring in august in the rwandan capital kit garley as get a net in garbo, a lawyer and political analyst in london, quito don't goble president of the congolese exiled government. and until burke in the netherlands is felix that hinder a researcher on conflict. peace and justice in africa's great lakes, regional welcome to all of my guests, sir. can i come 1st to you felix, in til book in the netherlands to get a neutral view? what we've seen the demonstrations against rwanda by people in congos city of goma . i mean, why are these demonstrations any different from those before them? i'm not sure whether i would say that they are very different. you hotspots, a lot of on time run. just 20 minutes is sunday, i'll go my particularly, which is very close. are you now? the city is sunday, i see what we remember already. some we have in early june. so for the last
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couple of years, we have quite a number of strong demonstration on all of those y valley. so i'm kind of activities going on. we have hard to activities are opposing a government with allegations of rhonda supporting and 23 inch so in the past as well. so talking about for example uh untrusted. so these are not very different. so i guess i look at this rather and other horrific cycle violence with of course, or device searching consequences for this to be that population. well, let's get to london then and to a key to tango. i mean, if it is such another cycle of violence, mr. turn go, well, how bad is the situation in the east of congo to the people that you're talking to that right now? thank you so much robin. this is very necessary to provide to mention it's very
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trying to do the difficult time for us companies. people we've been so kind and welcomed or in a, in our country there one days while come down to be but it must have been a big majority of upper run. the city then go out. really are willing to go back to the one that didn't. they're going to, congo it is, find a peaceful place to pay. well, i'll come generation of them and what is happening now. the government, especially poker graham, is using the british commonwealth every because a member of his army. now the trinity people in the united and don't be using those people now to kill it's holding always stitches and in conduct. speaking not more than the 1000 people have the place from the house. they're going to have a country or some people live in a forest at the moment. young people can go to school. we say criminal movement growing up by small group of people call them step m 20, pre and run by the government. wholly supported by, i mean to run this army, they've been in the st. the quote, killing ordinary companies, people, and a very thanks, but this message development. and i believe the british people and the people
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around the global one, using the in pretty and a power given by british for them to be member commonwealth, to kill civilians and a weak country, much as table political movement i want. okay, let me, let me, let me just stop me there. allow our guest in kigali. get to nothing got to come into. you've heard what august in london has said that this is all inspired and supported by the british and it will pull, cook armies, fault. how do you respond? right. so that is speculation i want. i would rather not respond to that speculation. and this type of rhetoric is what is surely is a demonstration that you, that you mentioned you are looted. and also when this gentleman says that the d s was, will coming to london, refugees, he's the ease. ease is being disingenuous. the anthony 3 are not random.
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and nobody welcomed their congolese, they leave on their asses to lance in the d. c. they live on these land for more than 4 centuries. and they are older than coal itself. as a country, these emily to be grouped, they are not random. they may speaking around that they may look like rundowns, but when the borders were being divided in 1885, they suddenly found themselves as part of the congress country. they are not, once they speak in iran, that they may look london, but they are going to leave now, these amalgam, or saying that we work on refugees. these people where they are much, much earlier though, as early as any other indigenous community in the, in the eastern part of that. yes. and they're fighting today because they, because deaf got their comedians struggled to be accepted by the likes of my colleague who's speaking now and calling them refugees. that's why their family is not yet. and have lived in refugee camps in rhonda and uganda for 3 tickets,
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not 3. the kids of the binding to return home demanded that i fell on deaf ears until now they were compelled to pick up arms to fight. so they can compel the government of the d i. c. negotiate and allow their communities that have been lavish needed to come to the tunnel. okay, mr. darren. gov, i, i'm going to go back to a felix the hinder in tilda because obviously the conversation to what's going on is multi layered. it's about as nicety, it's about geography. it's about language in its about cultures, certainly in this part of the world. and we will talk about that a little bit later in the program. let me just bring it up to speed in terms of the 2009 p steel that was reached that failed in 2012. what do you think the underlying issues there as to why the groups could find a p steel? mister the hinder but that it all sort of fell apart. why?
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i mean much of it or it. if i was a big one word in terms of why we keep having a sack of violence and i'm constantly repeating and just did, i would really more talk about once you weren't being enforcement. much of it comes ready to enforcement, which has always been like it. you have had quite very many, ah, in track on what is dialogue between the government and i'm the ropes. many adverbs, by the way, keeps always being repentant. last 2 weeks. ah, that un did issue a report of human rights violations in all of is focused on provinces. it, tory enough people saw people on panica. aunt is very important, always to keep that in mind, not at violet, doesn't human rights are very much multiple in fact, and friendship re, was among the lowers according to that you read reports which doesn't justify anything. but it's a very important point to keep in mind. so, but much of it really, whether we are talking about domestic issues, the government has hot arguing meetings in gama in 9 will be in dallas abbey about
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armed ropes. there were arguments that made, but enforcing them at a watt and post partially or never your force at all. that's one thing. on the 2nd is ready the capabilities of forcing your pot layout lied and it will pull, it will play for them. i'm part of the game sometimes that to be so quite absurd, typically still pockets. suppose it troubles i'm the combo and pongo. best gotten it to any government in place in congress as the responsibility to protect seniors or not provide for the basic mates. by that being said that they have their issues of cooperation around a global community. the national guardian stand up, edge of the un personally regional campus. ah, depending on the politics of moment on the moment, thou always been weaknesses in enforcing any given arguments a great. i'm because of that then you tend to get, always written your to violence, renewed belligerently. by diverse armed ropes, which
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a diverse published by gender of many of the issues i've always remain constant over the last reading. there's more on it. how can i bring in a key to here? obviously, the, the, the, the, the dfcs government to order the rwandan ambassador to leave. rwanda is stated as saying that they regretted, i mean, do they really regretted his or is that any room for the new, for in terms of toll king or all reports like this at all, thought by the u. n. a sticking point in any starting point for conversation. i think robert and he says very crucial point to be talking now my people and it is put my country. they've been a victim of a number of trustees. and what i had of, from a to, from run days, very shame that somebody tried to manipulate the story in international media by fabricating things that no correct the history clinical. but when you had independence, we had to monitor 850 to try the oh, well organized tribe, we welcome far enough from the one run has been
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a very his table countries. and he con no denied that we have a group all run these. most people want to go back now because the focus is still being up for them. people who call themselves democratic a for support. liberation for wonders is that i want to they are not willing to go back to congress. welcome to we have them in the country. and it is a story where everyone does bit of money. bless and international community like i hear from somebody from a lawyer, one, those manipulating the story is a very, very heavy case. here we talking about people's lives in somebody to be very serious allegation from somebody from the valley thinking international. this is just, there are people who are listening. when do you have your point of view says so to focused in wrong let me let me, let me bring it. let me bring in. let me bring, gave me a story to say thank you for being on no one to finish. my point to go into
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up the top is a very serious comment. you met in a to national television about misleading people. with spectrum it's, you know, you don't have evidence of that. ok, you're going to go back to the history. we welcome to run these people as a refugee, your car, being a table nation for years. you getting yourself. we've got history channel study in your country. we see people know like each other and you set up an equivalent, we welcome you, we accepted you, that's a place you got a sec open. now you are using this on this choose a by killing companies. people, you know, to talk because you have a support from united kingdom, you can get in a sense of providing enough support, including, and it different training to all the groups. and, you know, you actually mentioned the british, i'm going to bring again, let's bring it to you. but you know, for the moment i want to bring in, during here to actually respond to what mr. to go over said that you know,
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you beat the ruined, have been disingenuous. i mean poca, got me has tweeted on monday that he's wants to hold discussions with the un security un secretary general antennae good terrorist. he too, wants to discuss the ongoing rise intentions of to deescalate tensions. he says, what should we read that into this conversation between the secretary general and the president in kigali? windbreaker be said, one of them are, as you can see, my good it is, is trying to sanitize a group called he called horse of run the liberation if dealer now it is true, this area is it will be combo. and indeed, we've been pointing out that the d r c government to the us army is working alongside these group. and as you can see here from my colleague, they believe this is a legitimate now, do you live in a group that he is a group that is trying to make legitimate is on the un least as of their organization is only everyone. some of his leaders are being tried international
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course. so this is actually a group of people, remnants of people who commit the genocide in rwanda, where defeated fled to the r c and continued to attract to the communities in the us and from my colleagues statement. indeed that he's willing to continue working with them. and this is the primary quarrel that one that has with using the support of the d i. c, these shells bones on 232. so run that keeps asking the d as in dog, calibrating if de la, which is internationally recognized as if there are genocidal organ. okay, let me get i can see i guess didn't come into attending. come know what to do. you have to, does the teacher said, is mr. contained it? as a very serious allegation. you, one does have to talk about what to do with people was seeking protection in our country. you speak, there's an international committee to you speak to our lawyer. can you tell you people reaching the route you have to dance city even in
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a solution community to minimize the value of another dimension by importing them where you want them to do a service obligation. those people don't want to come back to your country because you're targeting them, you're killing them. the majority. and they wanted to have the truck or recall killing those people to including the to t. i was in court with maybe one of these people, critical people. you really important duty, we will come to you, we accepted you in our call. this is all you gotta do for people. how many years company people have to be killed because we are helping you. you've been given enough so often you're not in kingdom and coming up. now you're minimizing about you. if you're going to walk, you know, to how the countries are killing other people and we, according come on to walk in clinic, british people to listen to this, the supporting the war, criminal country in the folk. the government, including yourself, contended. you don't see the value of protecting human what his company is. people deserve to live and mission to live in the army. and you can do this as cruises to kill somebody if you'll be good to go. let me, let me just bring, you know,
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let me just bring, let me just bring and feel. you have a truck recall, let me just bring it in here to book. obviously you're hearing both sides. felix and it's very polarized each side, whether they are pro congo or pro and have their own point of view. endless cycle of violence that the media that the us has tried to mediate how difficult is its position. now if the, if the international community are not listening and not coming to the aid of the very civilians that are actually the victims that all of this on those border areas . it is very difficult to keep in mind. of course, it's a toys, very disappointed, coma compared to mont allies, the discussions about security. and if andy elsie, keep in mind that the last conversation probably you hot and this and channel, why around to demonstrations against the un presence. i me in that yasu. ah,
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you have, but one of the biggest you at present. so you, there is a global globally speaking in his idea sapiens just in general. but he has been quite, very difficult to, to, to find a solution. because the issue isn't going to lay out on many issues that require but to some kind of large investment, bad diverse actors at different levels to tackle the issue. i keep or saying that there is a need for really a comprehensive where's looking at different things. keep in mind, the fact that we are talking about is a guarantee in north people to day. but that part of the country better get on the reporter from the u. s. there which my rights body that i was quoting at, the beginning of these composition least violations by several dozens of armed gigawatts, which i feel very much active. so disarming all of those i'm groups including and $23.00 of course, should be a priority for any actors, including the companies that are post barrels. so pot, not smart,
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global original. otherwise, i'd be happy at luanda kind of roadmap for peace that i've been in a row beach communicate which of us is a military and political solution. all of those, if they want to be taken seriously, would be beginning little or finishes, at least. but do you never have a solution when you address want to see were issues that are issues the hot been leaning around for the last 30 plus years that needs to be address at the local level of belonging, identity, blonde related issues and belonging, but also target our regional issues iran, as we are picking up what's getting about rhonda dusty, but keep in mind that as we're speaking than a brute force is in the hope that'll solve people operating. we then determine that the goal is government and you got on forces operating again it's at yes. okay. all of these are a factor that you need to keep in mind in looking at the solution. how that even more comprehensive in bringing back last is that moralist are your it's been for
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our communities involved show good in those are moralist rejected. let me just bring in mr. tonga, there are many elements that and many issues to bring. let's just, let's just talk about the demonstrations. we've seen over the weekend and about the approaches to international mediation. let's just take this conversation in a different direction as well. that as you say, you're not very happy with the british, the french in the region of also left in parts of marley and chad because of other relationships with our sub saharan africa. and we saw in the demonstrations at the weekend, the call for russia to get involved by some members of the public that were on the street. there. mr. tango, if you're not happy with western powers, and you're not happy with the un. is there a role for russia? i think that's not what i think people in the congo to have no choice at a moment. they're looking away at all. but i can tell you how to finish this wall is going to be 2 minutes. if for example, arson has done, a stock of promoting to rhonda and
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a bridge is going to stop. support singular one dog, giving them the arms and also supporting them as a member of common to walk the end of the walk. we don't need to russia it to minutes. ok. i'm calling british people to listen to 1000000 people been killed because they are supporting the one that s all. and i'm very sorry i have to pinch disrupt that. when mr. content that mission, we have to recognize them on the, on the different type of both. but for me, that to the one that's been in the center of killing kimberly's and also supporting m. 20 pre popes and as evidence. but he's a lawyer. i believe he continent to try to stop bolt if he never come up. cross doc, i'll be more than happy to send him to get it. also, we hope to make it clear. what is the future strategy on it? piece, origin. the origin our president, mr. up to 2nd, he has a try his best to find a way, a peaceful way to find a way for the school. it has never been a solution because rhonda is still using the same for you. okay. why?
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because the final word to me. well, let me get you on the printer to get mr. garbo all his say he got all these comments. you know, it's a very heated subject, but i want to ask you whether international mediation is required to try and solve the problems between the 2 countries, between kigali and kinshasa. because obviously the 2 capitals need to start talking to each other, don't they? regardless of what's going on, it's obviously very heated, is obviously displacing thousands of people in the region. and the 2 governments need to talk to each other, don't they face to face with the moderator that no, no, no can cheat a problem between 2 countries or a problem with the countries not so, but for in our interference, we have them. one is good. there, which is made of several other countries,
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they haven't solve the problem. and also this gentleman is speculating too much about the th street then france un. and so by the problems of the d. c. and the solutions are of the i see a we did yes. that did the month, a simple m $23.00 means means march 23rd, 2009. it's an agreement that says on come release speaking. hi, randa wayne refugee comes in uganda and randa dun, home peacefully. all soldiers of into the 3 must be mobilized and be integrated into go, what is i me and others, the movie nice community run that route you under speaking communities that are actually gone. what is to come? what is citizens must be accepted and discriminated against? there has been lack of political, we did the as the, has been good skim coating rwanda and they had to wilma push the envelope to get a good thing. the pin and everybody what they really did. yes. is that remember
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what my colleagues, felix was trying to say is the following. when you see reports of human rights violation did, yes, c, l 23 and a one due to deficit is emily 3 is the least violent. the most violent group idiocy today is the common is andy followed by f dealer, which is a group medical journal said connected triggers that are working hand in hand companies. i'm not even big gay and you there communities, government accept that you can speaking. hi, rhonda luke, rhonda in actually be communities because they bought that when it was being divided. it was that arbitrary without considering where people come through and did. yes, he understands that there will have county and then no good. you can go to wonder and obvious is get working be you can skip within the u. s. in the long run and so they are listed there in god. oh, we do have to leave it because obviously this is a conversation that is going to go on for
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a very long time. we can't solve it in half an hour, but i do appreciate all of my guests for joining us from k garley london until berg . thank you to get a nevin garber, a key twotango law and felix to hinder. thank you as well for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website at al serra dot com. and for further discussion, go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story. you can also join the conversation on twitter, where at ha, inside story from me, the whole rahman and the entire team here in the or thank you very much for your time and your ah ah,
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