participants in this workshop say that reclaiming the narrative, they take as really movies and reconstruct them from their own perspective. but we wanted to do with these films is not just to criticize what was wrong and what was right. but rather to add to think, how can we say our narrative? what is, how can we use these films as an as important archival material in that 18 hours to pro israeli views still dominate the public sphere? recently, marvell studios announced it will feature in his wally superhero, in the new captain. america movie. is this all to my grandmother? they may not be blockbusters. can't. or won't many directors here tell us that why the palestinian narrative is being showcased more on international screens? it still has a long way to go. they say these really film industry has the funding an access to international red carpets, making it very difficult for palestinians to compete. neither abraham l just eda,

the occupied westbank ah, to russia. but he says that was before the invasion of your crew to wrong says keep news to provide evidence or to written drugs have been used in the war dosage. a bar has more from to wrong. the radian foreign minister, you're up to lie on went on to say that steering incentive delegation to european country 2 weeks ago, where they were expecting to meet with ukrainian officials who were going to present them with evidence that these drones have been used in the conflicts in ukraine, according to the iranian foreign minister, those officials never showed up. he believes that that is as a result of pressure from the united states. government as well as germany are looking to impose further sanctions on iran at regarding the sale of these drones to the russian government. now, the foreign minister is saying that the radians do not have not taken sides. they don't support either side. in this conflict, they are looking to come have play

a role in resolving the ongoing war in ukraine. italy says it will allow the docking of one of 3 ships carrying refugees rescued from the mediterranean, but it's only for health checks. some of those on board have been trying to see for more than 2 weeks for testers in gone as capital calling for the president to step down because economic crisis rising fuel prices and soaring, inflation has squeezed on age, already struggling with high cost of living, present non a cooper either has been hoping to get financial support from the international monetary fund. north korea is being accused of launching for more resolve the latest in a series this week. the u. s. was set to fly a nuclear capable supersonic bomber over south crew in the joint aerial exercise. i'm not sure a force against young young and both hundreds of war. plain campaigning is intensifying 3 days out from the u. s. midterm elections. pennsylvania is seen as

a swing states which could determine who controls congress. former president brac obama has campaigned there for the democrats. john freshman, both us president joe biden, and donald trump are expected to go that later as well. right, right. stay with headlines here. not 0 got more news coming up right after inside story buffalo. ah. germany's chancellor, olaf sholtes visits china as divisions are deepening between east and west. the german government is divided to over what political and trade ties it should have with beijing. so what impact could schultz is trip have on future relations?

this is inside story. ah. hello and welcome to the program, my mamma, jim. jim jermaine chancellor. olaf schultz has become the 1st western leader to meet she's in ping since the chinese president tightened his control on power and began an unprecedented 3rd term last month. schoultz is also the 1st g 7 leader to visit china since the pandemic. but the trip has come at a time of deep divisions between badging and the west during the war and ukraine, china has remained close to russia while germany and the you have supplied weapons to keep and opposed severe sanctions on moscow. there are other big divisions to the west is concerned about human rights and the treatment of weaker muslims and china's intentions toward taiwan. but germany and china's trade relations are

extremely important to both present. she said he hoped for more cooperation between their countries during what he called a time of change and chaos. and chancellor showed says he wasn't in favor of breaking from china, but wanted a relationship based on equality thought. we don't believe in the ideas of decoupling from china, but it's also clear to us that this has something to do with economic ties as equals with reciprocity, with the issue that access to investment must be provided equally and that no dependencies arise that contribute to the fact that one cannot act freely. that is at least the perspective that we're pursuing to the way you do you, china, germany relations continue to develop healthily and steadily. we believe that it's a signal sent to the world that we jointly uphold multilateralism and support. multi polarity, while the west and china disagree over a range of issues, they share important trading relationships in a globalized world. let's have

a look, a trade between the you and china, and how significant that is to germany. china was the world's largest exporter and 2020, with its goods and services valued at about $2.00 trillion dollars. next was the e. u, at $1.00 trillion dollars and the united states at $1.00 trillion. the u. imported $467000000000.00 worth of goods last year from china. and the other direction exports from the e. u. 2 china were worth $221000000000.00. less than half the value of what euro buys from the chinese. germany is the used topic supporter of goods china. their valued at a $103000000000.00 and made up more than 16 percent of the used total exports to the country. in 2021. german imports from china were worth about $97000000000.00. that's around 22 percent of the use total imports from the country. ah.

all right, let's go ahead and bring in our guests in beijing. andy mock, a senior research fellow with the center for china and globalization in paris, j. as in victor, a research analyst with the paris office of the german marshall fund of the u. s. and an expert in european security. and in london, u. j. a senior research fellow on china with the chatham house. think tank a warm welcome to you all, and thanks so much for joining us today on inside story, jesse, and let me start with you today. there are many analysts who have said or suggested that german chancellor schultz was in china not just to represent germany's interest, but that he was also there perhaps on behalf of the you. so let me put it to you from your vantage point. was chancellor sholtes in beijing simply to represent germany's interests or was he also there on behalf of the you? so what is very important to consider in this context is that interests of any you remember states always are closely linked to what you can do and what you will do

in foreign policy. because basically, every decision a foreign policy requires unanimity. so what members the death in its foreign relations and how it designs its fire relations, always his direct consequences also for the european union of course. and that is also what charles stress because was that he was not explicitly there as your representative for that it would have been necessary to take, for instance, joseph beretta, the high representative of the you for everything touching on 4 and a half. but of course, if the german chancellor s, the representative of the biggest, you members state, goes to china that sends a very clear sagan out. and if he does so right after the party congress and it's the 1st european to go there. that of course shows that this visit has a certain significance and also that dealing with china on the one hand, nominally,

but also on the questions of global governance. global global challenges is a priority in germany, but also in europe, even though this visit was and i want to stress that not were received by other europeans like harshly criticized by many. andy, you heard their agency and talking about the fact that this visit was controversial . that it was criticized by many in europe. was from your vantage point president, she the biggest beneficiary of this trip. did he get more out of it than chancellor schultz? why certainly think president c as the president of china. us certainly got something out of this visit because it does contribute to a more stable and prosperous china. but i think that also we have to recognize that germany and europe and i think even the entire world benefited from this visit.

it's a recognition that, of course, germany in china have very important business and economic ties. but i think it's also a recognition that we are in a world where national security is becoming increasingly important. and countries like germany as germany, a major economy, major country in the world, but also as we heard, as one of the bus to court members in your opinion, recognizes just what a new world we are in with the unfortunate conflict in ukraine. the related economic chaos that has caused that finding a new paradigm for co existing is vitally important. and i think this is just as important and elementary. this trip, especially as china recently announced a global security initiative that seeks precisely to address some of the

shortcomings of the existing security order j. from your vantage point, just how important is the relationship between china and germany and how much of the 2 countries economies, intertwined. how much are they reliant on each other? well, i thing a dependence. this wart seems to be quite ivy word old must become a stigma in european politics this days. yes, nevertheless, germany has been one of the major to we can partner with china. but however, what i want to stress is for this visit. first, he re representing the inflection point that between china and germany and those to be in china and the europe given the past 2 years. that the relationship between the 2 countries and between begging and bra so seems to be stranded. so can we actually consider this visit and perhaps is the somehow that sense of germany considered seeking to have a con, open dialogue with china? that's one thing. now secondly, i think for this particular visit,

the element of politics seems to be taking equal weight as much as the economics. because in the past, compare with the 16 years of angela marco's in the office, that seems to be much of the bilateral is it, is mostly about business and trade. but really for this one, given the world where we are now, i think the politics also perhaps becoming more important than economics in here. and i do not think either the chinese company nor the german company, nor the european companies will be able to exclude from the current ever intense, more geopolitical competition. justine, what kind of significance will this meeting between shoulds and she have had ahead of the upcoming g 20 summit? i'm asking, that's because russia is in the g 20. but we don't yet know if president putin is going to be in bali later this month. and some may see the g 20 as an opportunity to start the process of negotiations for some kind of peace in ukraine. others may see it as a chance to further isolate russia. so what role might china be playing here behind

the scenes? yes, i think that is the question that we're all asking us this question of how close the lines between russia and china actually is and how much influence europeans, but also the us can have on china. and i think that in this we get this particularly interesting to basically look at not what we do see, but particularly what we do not see. and that the moment we do not seed that present, she has been this 10. sam says very clearly from russia, although what is very remarkable, and this visit here is that he has drawn together with chancellor shots, a very clear red line for the use of nuclear weapons. and also underlined that this is that they use would be irresponsible. so as the threat of the use of nuclear

weapons, and i think that this is already quite clear, a warning and maybe the clearest warning that putin has received from beijing over the last year over the last couple of months. and you asked whether there was a post or whether negotiations might be and a topic on the table of the d. d. 20 of course p. and it will be a question when and how negotiations could potentially start. but i do definitely not see that the g 20 as a starting point for negotiations, particularly because europeans have always underlined that the start of these definitely depends on what ukraine is, wants conflict. and also because i do not think that it is the far own west states, could parisha russia sufficiently. so there might be work on the economic side of

men, but i don't see sufficient political way to behind that j. i saw you nodding along to a lot of what jersey was saying there. it looked like you wanted to jump in, so please go ahead. sure, i mean, i quite agree with the previous speaker, and obviously i consider the joint press read out after the bell at from meeting between a see an assurance that seems to be c has led very clear. the absolute red line is that china does not support russia to the deployment of nuclear weapons, and china does not support any country to decline nuclear weapons in here. so i think also this doesn't come as a surprise to me because that's very much in line with china's nuclear and these online to policies. but i would argue, actually, it is for one thing that could change, sees stones on russia invasion to was you can perhaps, as a looming pers, back that russia deploying nuclear weapon the in part of the europe. because these

would be also be seen as a national security, not just for europe, but also a national security threat for china as well. considering the 2 countries shared around 4500 kilometers borders. so employees deployment of nuclear weapons is quite dangerous for any country. andy, i'm, i'm going to ask you a question that's tied to ukraine as well of ukraine war. we all know it's broad deep divisions between east and west president. she has refused to get involved and persuading president putin to change course. this is also having a serious economic impact, especially in europe, which is a market that is very important to china. so my question is, might the trade consequences of the ukraine war, have any bearing on china's position or does bay jing see other geopolitical opportunities from a west and russia that has weakened by war? well, i think that it's well recognised, and i think articulated on numerous occasions by china that the situation ukraine

is a complex one. it really is not this simple black and white situation that some in the western media portray and that china has long taken this aside in this conflict. and beside is that these disagreements that unfortunately have erupted into a military conflict should be resolved peacefully. and i'm not sure that i see this recent joint statement as a red line, but merely a reiteration of an existing principle that china has supported. i mean that any use of nuclear weapons or threat of use really should be discouraged. i think that we need to also look here that in the broader picture that the strategic rationale for nato, which lord is may,

the 1st secretary general said was to keep germany the germans down the americans in and the russians out. and i think we're seeing perhaps this is the time for a new formulation and china is not a party to these conflicts. but as you mentioned, certainly is affected from a trade perspective, from a geopolitical perspective as well. and certainly i think is working very diligently for an acceptable resolution, but through accepted organizations like the united nations, i think versus directly intervening. so i wanted to clarify that the china indeed is taking a side and that's the side of piece and stable development. didn't it look to me like you were reacting somewhat, andy was saying, and maybe you wanted to jump in, so please go ahead if you want. yeah,

for me. one point that i think was very interesting. while when he mentioned that we may see changes in something that i really want to, i'm just coin this entire conversation, isn't this idea that the german china policy is going to have a really strong impact on what the you is going to do in the next yes, so teach it because when we're talking about this with it's here today, it's not. or yesterday, it's not only about the, the very short term outcomes. it's also about the long term implications of, of this whizzes and how it is going to feed into, for example, the german china strategy, which is currently being elaborated, but also the german national security. trusting both documents will have a significant impact on brussels. and also on how you might reconsider its approach to china because i want to recall that the use last really

comprehensive. a more comprehensive document on china was the you were trying to strategic outlook from 2019. but today's china is not the china. we saw 5 years ago, and this is why whatever we, whenever we are talking about germany's role in this conflict here and how germany could potentially pressure trying to influence china. this might also be determined how it does that in the future, and also how you might adjust its course. ga berlin had said before this trip by chancellor shows that there had been consultations with key partners in the us and europe ahead of the visit. do we have any indication or do we know what came out of those consultations? well obviously if you observe the press release and press conference between shorts and legal tongue yesterday,

and they have never really been shot of criticisms and warnings regarding different issues, different contentious geopolitical issues such as taiwan and wasn't shows commons. so obviously i think the german chancellor has already take into account what the european allies, american olives have in mind on the one hand. but i think on the other hand, he has also addressed the german industry and businesses concern regarding the lack of access to the market, the level of playing viewed, you know, those old long list of complain as usual. so i think before this visit that that expectation is relatively low for what he has achieved yesterday. i think that's a reasonable success as far as we can get. so we can see this seems to be quite a lot of input from european partners was net and oh, so from the other side of black atlantic, i have no doubt about it. andy, you know, anglo merkel had been criticized since leaving office for her policy of trying to use trade to an influence with countries like russia,

though she would argue that that was the right course. now, all of schwartz's government has abandoned this approach with russia, but there are divisions within it about how to approach china. and how does this get resolved the end of the day can, can human rights trump trade, or can they agree to disagree on these issues? while still doing business? no, i think that certainly these issues have their own lanes and in sort of these areas, countries can agree to disagree. you know, we look at the situation with seeing john hall call some of these other issues. i think the german view has been that these are not domestic issues. and clearly china does view the less domestic issues. but again, i think these can be narrow lane and be compartmentalized. i think what's more important to point out here is that within this situation the germany is facing and

i completely agree with the previous comments made. and that this will certainly have implications for the year as well in its relations with china. but the germany and other countries in europe are really discovering the ruinous cost of wedding themselves to a us dogmatic view of a destructive competition with china. and arguably, the same with russia as well. we go to this idea of indivisible security which russia has talked about. and it's also a cornerstone of china's global security initiative. that these are really legacy issues of the existing security order that needs to be updated. and we may see are some dramatic changes. i would say that a lot of the chatter about this mistake, which germany is made a trade through change change through trade. i'm sorry, ah, you know,

we may be over reacting to this, that it's a certain minority of activist and media that are trumpeting the story. but the pragmatism that germany is showing, i think, will ultimately prevail. not only in germany, but also in europe. the use of the china jazz in about human rights concerns when it comes to china. you know, the west that they're concerned about about the treatment of we are muslims, or they're concerned about china's intentions towards taiwan as well as another issue. you don't. chancellor schultz had promised a candid exchange with president she on sensitive subjects are based on what you've seen after this meeting. do you think that's the case? was there a substantive discussion about these issues? well, that's always hard to say. if you haven't been part of the exchanges, and if you're only observing from the outside, i think the fact that it has been mentioned is already

a baby step in the correct direction. but here again, i would like to link that to the comments of the previous speakers, it's always about a certain tract. and about balancing the question of human rights or around situating it in the overall approach that you have. and really making clear that when it comes to human rights and the conceptualization of nice, it is there, there is no point of agreement between europe and china. and when we look at how you describe this relationship with china as a partner, competitor arrival, it's clear which of the 3 applies. whereas, and other paths. it is also clear that cooperation with china, for instance, climate or development in some regards. my fee, the way to go, so i don't know how candid or how open and frank this exchange was. but for

me, the fact that shawls had the entire package of bring in human rights of bringing insecurity issues, a free and global of house with ukraine. and of course, also talking economics shows that this idea of a more complex mentalist approach is now really infusing german china policy. and that's germany, i would say to the benefit of the new is really abandoning that paradigm of change through traits. g. how much does all this set the stage for a significant improving of relations between germany and china and also how much does all this benefit germany, how much potentially might benefit europe and how much of the benefit china, who, who benefits most in the long term from what from what's going on was very hard to,

to make a calculation on balance sheet as moment, but i don't think, you know, the change through treat would still continue to be the men policy for the germany off a much larger part of europe anyway. because europe has trans geopolitics has change, and also china itself has changed. so that is leaving us id really take to 2 to tango. that changes already happen. and of course, the require. there is the stakeholders in this game and to change their tax as well . and so i would actually see that the relationship between china and europe, and also riches between bidding and the berlin will become more fractures rather than more thermals. even if we do have to visit in here. but how shows himself be to be able to balance the different voices whizzing billy, you know, on the one hand you have 4 ministry than economic ministry than on the other hand, you have the chancellor, you know, who is actually could, could really, german government speaking was one voice and perhaps not. that's exactly the case

like the linen government, like in u. k. where is the treasury and the foreign office does not speaking on the same page on china as well? so i think ultimately that sense of competition and corporation will be intertwined with, in this bad actually has been in china in germany, but also was you and china as well. and i think that's what we're going to continue to experience as the way comes along. and even if that would be represent more acutely in a d 20 as well. i mean, on the one hand, china and germany also have interest on the development issues on a debt suspension that relieve issues for developing countries. however, on the other side, we can admit that china and germany would never be on the same page when it come to ideology. so i'm afraid which is apt to never get through that therapy here as environment as where we are now. all right, well we have run out of time, so we're going to have to leave the conversation there. thank you so much. all of our guests, andy mark does in viber, m u g. and thank you for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website out 0 dot com. and for further discussion,

go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story. you can also run the conversation on twitter. our handle is at ha, inside story, from emergent room in the whole team here in doha bye for now. ah. ah. indonesia your investment destination, the world's 10th largest economy, is busy transforming, ready to beat your business. partner with a robust talent pool,

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