cindy comma was just going to upload the new address. it was like 1130 inches hulu . yep. and vicki said no, so it was a while ago more than we did to you. oh, i will say apartment. but the one i offer the loan, but i think i know. mm hm. mm. if what are you representing? i mean, you only left one of her wicked long and for the lovejoy stockings of when allows him or more play mark wasn't for me. i played like all is unfair, my letter. he sees him up last summer. it let me find it. is one little guy with her eyes in the business. his mom got on present presidential for the us war 2. the $3.00 with was just he was he the only business then we're done with it. let me did. i tend to pull it apart by monday. what is it because he was at corby,

i've got to live it upsetting my to read the what it, what it was this i'm miss munos. everything was up to look at another number up on on over there. if it was a paper i to mark, well it want to not at the bottom one on just a hello. this is out of here. and these are the headlines ukrainian president calling me zalinski has stressed the need for caution, following russia's announcement that it's withdrawing forces from the city of cassandra. he has warned of possible booby traps and more attacks. this is which it met doc. yes. is that unique to understand that no one just goes away. if he doesn't feel the pressure of power or the enemy doesn't give us, give me doesn't make gesture of good. will the fight for it all? hossa beg has worn out from her son. the ukrainian commanders said that they

haven't ruled out any russian provocation or at the fact that they can actually take this seriously because they're saying actions speak louder than words for weeks. now. the ukrainians have been saying that russians have been reinforcing their positions in her saw that their soldiers, russian soldiers have been putting on civilian coals, taking positions gay, getting ready for st. battles. and even until last night, the ukrainians was saying, yes, the russians have said that they are going to withdraw. but at the same time, they're putting it, putting an extra troops into duck or san region. i mean, my russian president vladimir pierson will not be attending the g 20 liter salad in bali next week. russia is expected to face criticism from the west at that meeting about the war in ukraine. moscow says the foreign minister sag elaborate will attend, and person may appear by video link, who as president joe biden has hailed the democrats performance in the mid term

elections, calling it a good day for democracy. his party though, could still lose control of both the house and the senate that was out so far. haven't been as bad as that expected. still, boat counting is ongoing and to battle ground states in arizona. officials are counting half a 1000000 male balance and enabling nevada results and may not be known for another 9 days. those are the headlines. i'll be back with more news here on al jazeera. after i look at the somali famine on inside story. as the world faces an overwhelming storm of global challenges, indonesia said to host the most difficult g 20 summit since its inception, with the worn ukraine soaring inflation, food crisis, and energy instability will dial a prevail over waivery and hope to bring solutions to global issues. the g 20 summit on al jazeera should sound and be declared in somalia for months. now the united nations and agencies have warned extreme hunger and malnutrition on

a catastrophic scale. so what preventing an official announcement and wouldn't make a difference on the ground. this isn't type story ah hello there and welcome to the program. i'm the star theater. somalia is facing full blown famine. it's up the country's doorstep. humanitarian agencies have been issuing warnings like that for months. unicef says conditions are worse now than during the last famine back in 2011, but no one has yet made an official decoration. the numbers, the stock, the wild food program says 7100000 people. that's nearly half the population face accused food and security. that's when lives are livelihoods are in immediate danger because there simply isn't enough food. 1.5000000 children are malnourished

for failed rainy seasons have led to the worst rap now in 40 years. and rushes invasion of ukraine has made staples such as grains and cooking oil unaffordable. millions of people have been displaced. i came to my door on the 2nd of october, and i do not know any one from this town. 2 of my children died here and the surviving ones are hungry. my family does not have anything to eat, and i don't have the relatives to help me. oh, well, that was more allow cool. a lot of it. in the last 2 weeks, we've come across parents who have lost their children to hunger and drought. the drought is worse than the previous ones. people have reached he from far places and their problem is that they are new to the area and do not have relatives to assist them. i'll somali as president was asked about the drought and mass hunger at a foreign in washington, d. c. in september. here's what he had to say. we are in f a min, but of ation stage. like know?

ah, yes, it is a bit difficult, but it's working is set than geographic location. so. so maria riscas very high to announce if i'm in announcing for i mean, or declared in for, i mean it's self is very difficult situation. that doesn't affect the, the fact mean victims only, but halters, the development agenda, the perspectives on everything. well, a famine is the most severe kind of hunger crisis, but it's also a technical term. the phases of food insecurity are carefully defined and classified within a framework known as the i. p. c. famine occurs when 20 percent of households face extreme food shortages. 30 percent of children suffer from acute malnutrition and 2 of every 10000 people die from starvation or disease and malnutrition. the decoration is made by several parties, primarily the government and various un agencies. famine can be caused by multiple

factors, including conflict and extreme weather patterns. with early warning and rapid action though it can be prevented. the last famine declared in somalia, it was back in 2011. at least 260000 people died. ah, well let's now bring in our guests. in mogadishu, we have had a done the as a research associate at the london school of economics. he's also an aide practitioner and a humanitarian specialist on somalia. in edmonton, canada is a p r, a l. me is an author and the executive director of the heritage institute for policy studies. a somali think tank. and also in mogadishu is hot on a li, she's advisor to the mayor of mogadishu. our warm welcome to you all. thank you so much for joining us here. on inside story and i'm sorry, i'll start with you because you've been looking broadly at the situation in somalia and i'm curious about what the situation is on the ground rights at this moment. are we experiencing famine conditions in somalia and it just hasn't been officially declared yet. thank you very much and i will say hi to to the other guest.

and what do we, by the way, we just publish a report on this issue. we met basically everybody that mattress or 11 to when it comes to this is specifically short for this to go to t in somalia including international organizations and the so model government on people who are on the front line. so what we can to, to the conclusion of the time, which was just about 3 weeks ago, is that the data is not there yet to, to, to conclude that the threshold, this, the technical threshold is that, that's the access that for nutrition level. and the main food insecurity artist out of there no question about it. the so what, what is needed to be done is that instead of just waiting one or 2 specific point

here and there, the government and the international community must, must act immediately and call this emergency as an emergency and mobilized local resources. so basically not, no one is saying that people are not die be brought die in in compass. so like not just to focus on the technical part of it. and let's do what we can in order to help rescue the people who are facing the problem. i think we shouldn't be just focusing too much on debate and get a technicality show. well, on that technicality, i want to bring, go ahead in here because we're just describing the criteria there deem to which you need to deem the situation of famine. and notably, it's based on how many people are dying. i know that's been an issue of contention in the past. good. how, how useful is a threshold like that? i know for many of our viewers, it feels like

a very unnatural kind of distinction. thank you very much and i say i will come the other guest and just to follow up what we're saying is that of course, to declare farm the small political as he said. but i tend to disagree that we are already on the threshold, if even by, by passing it, because when we say, when we described or when 5 minutes to be declared, the threshold that we might need to meet before the problem is declared. it's late . for example, the number of death, but them calls them the level of malnutrition, the level of people who are in ip 5 or ip for. and of course, it is not enough, know why it may not be the same level of the level of the crisis might not be the

same, but they still, we kind of, i thought to the government then that community they don't, as all of declared pockets of life what happened 1011, because in one part of the congress we might to be really, we might be in a situation which is relatively manageable. but in the other part of the country, we might be again, things like going out of hand. and it's very unfortunate that we tend to or crush the last minutes of course, that technicalities on their life is something that might be something different. but again, i think we have a positive list lot. yeah, we have been caution. we have been discussing this in we have been warning the donors, the government and the international community. and unfortunately, module that has not been taken, but it is now that most of the people are feeling good because the

crisis, it's pulling the covers the funding on. well, let me bring in hold on here. hold on. how does the government view this? is there famine in parts of somalia right now? well, thanks for having me and hello to the other guy. i agree. i think there are a lot insecurity across the country. one to many. however, i think there's a lot of emphasis, any time spent on technically defining our declaring spam and rather than being proactive and really engaging aggressively to attract the issues of secure data across the country. i do think the government has the right to not to clarify men at this point in time. as i mentioned that the numbers are not. they are simply, though we are seeing a large number of people in, in very difficult and even from best in some parts of the country. what i would recommend and be in terms of as someone who works for the government and maybe

which is hosting an artist displacement and has one of the largest insecurity, is that we as a government and international partners who have already raised hundreds of millions of dollars to actually ramp up efforts and target target areas where there is i've tried a famine. the government, when the president took office back in may, appointed an envoy for humanitarian credit. that's happening across the country. that envoy successfully leading lobby internationally and raised a lot of money for the international community to respond for money to prevent them . and so i think the efforts of just having a blanket declaration of famine is futile. it's not necessary at this point that numbers are not there. but what we are encouraging is to really be more clear about

how the international community partnership with the government is going effectively prevent from family conditions material. i think we'll get to funding in a minute. i do want to dig into that as well, but you've just there that a decoration of famine would be futile. so let me throw that over to her area. i know a lot of people in both in aid agencies and the government are a wary of the so called f word because it does have very specific implications. what does a declaration of famine actually do? well, i'm in. let me just bought it this way. there is a committee that to look at this, they have the data now with their hands, and i my, my, i'm told that they will release that report either on monday, tuesday this week. so basically we will know whether we have passed that, that threshold or not on what that is. what that means, if the data is that the government cannot say much, they have to declare the firm and doesn't mean it's a lot. by the way, if

a government is not willing, not or not capable of protecting its people, it's a, it's a lot about it. so very me, so what's not a government can do that each. the data is that if the committee concluded that there has been reached the threshold, it has to lead, it has to announce department and it has to read the process. and that actually would, it would boost image internationally. it would make them more responsible rather than just insisting on technicalities that show basically that's what they position when it comes to declaring or not the clarity i hope is a lot. if i don't, i mean, i do want to ask all of you about this because it was my understanding that new agencies and the government together do have some leeway and some lassitude in terms of deciding whether or not to declare them and go ahead. i know you've been

working on some while without the people who work on these found and review committees in your mind, how much scope does the government actually have to decide whether i wanted to clarify because there has to be some kind of political consensus to in the last 30 days, the somebody that was in the heart of the government was in the heart of international community. and sometimes most of the data, not only the data that you collect on the ground, but it has to be sensory analysis and where a lot of thing has to be fucked that in on most of this information and data is in the hands of, of international lake that they both now they want to get in gospel is if it's in a you and they're using that data and that is not in the government. but how do you said that the government in the last 510 to 5 years i've been building on his capacity in terms of getting access to such a data and trying to understand how to make a decision based on the available information. yes,

i agree with the professor about it is the responsibility of the government to protect this population on such a crisis. but it is very unfortunate that that people start the dying of the crisis as early as may june, july, august. the date. 5 accumulating, seeing is that it's not as long as it is not. it's not, it's not an awkward, it's not a bumble of it is, is a process is not one event. it is a process under, we have the see, the government of the following. but the unfortunate part of the. 2 the will, the will of the government is so law that it is getting more friends to political because here and there while people about it. yes, there are people who hold on. i'm going to let you come in there to respond because we just had the president of speak and he described was a risk. i, i'm, i'm sorry,

we will come back to you because i want to give her on an opportunity to respond to what you've just said. the, the president describing this, written some areas to declare famine. what, what does the actually mean by that? why they went out, maybe a comment on the government? well, to declare, i think the government is willing to do what it takes to take care of citizens are to be responsive to what's on the ground in terms of numbers and dates. we've had contention relationship with the us in terms of numbers and the number that i collected, somalia. in recent years, there has been completed numbers and this is the reason why the government, the government begins to strengthen our ability to actually functional like a government and the business of declaring whether family or job back is being questioned masters of conduct. i think the international committee resorts to stating that the government is not willing or is busy with political between. i

think that the fall i narrative that government is not neglecting its duties, but really being cautious around what this means. low turn at the moment. right now the numbers are not there are, there are places in the country where it, yes, abuse, curity is real and that we do need to respond. yes. but what does that mean? i be like, his family needs to be declared. i don't think so. i think the support in the finance. my question is, why are we not seeing any response in the office of areas where we can actually target and improve conditions as far as what the speed of the president has is yes, that is that which is why we need to continue advocating to increase the resources and activities, sorry that haven't come in this or that. that's not what the president said. the president said, declaring famine in specific areas was risky. and i think

a lot of people watching would assume that a declaration of famine means more attention and more aid. so what are the cons here? what's the downside? which means that interferes with development and projected agenda for the next point. you know, that doesn't mean that the government doesn't recognize it isn't regency the president doesn't record live. it is an entire ongoing has been at the request of international committee, appointed, massive money have been collected. why don't we not seeing more engagement on the ground using the ones that are already been allocated rather than continuously looking to ramp up attention. but we're not actually meeting the demand. i think that's where the question i know you want to come in hand. and you haven't had a chance to speak recently. if you are a show, you can, i just say quickly that when it comes to the ad for the order,

the family was most of the governments in the region like it. in fact, they have been pressuring an international community not to use it. and it's not just somalia, it starts are not going to be, it's others, they really don't like it, but it because of what it's gonna take some countries even like, i mean a government might or be crisis might happen. so that's one of the main reason is that governments don't like when we talk to somebody officially, they received 3 concerns. one was the data, they stating that they're still not reaching the other one was they might lose the coordination capacity of the whole area under 3rd one was that the money that is task for development might be reverted, or just the re routed to the relief. so these were the concern is to express it to all of them, maybe with a data when a site are not founded, i think the government can be, can achieve in this area. bye bye, bye bye bye. coming more for support,

at least even if it's not declaring the fireman the president and need to still come out and he needed to shave the level of emergency here. the excess that's is way too many the, the put is to go to, to buy the, given that it's more rain is not just thought it might even complicate or even add to the depth is with a diarrhea. and how that is done by that is also, i'm in the, a lot of the food is just sitting in the port additional on what the big president needed to do is to use this on this from forces on this to distribute the fruit. it's about 240 kilometers for additional where these cries are taking place. and by the way, just to go back to 1991, where the international community, particularly in the united states, have to send thousands of people to distribute foot. so now it's really criminal in a sense to have so many people, so many troops and so many food available, just

a few 100 kilometers away are not being distributed timely. of course, that is our kind of so let's go to 2 problems. i think this is the leadership that the government and a lot of this is about reputation and perceptions of what the government is doing. so good had, let me ask you, you are sitting in mogadishu. how does molly is on the street? the feel about that, is there a political consensus amongst the public that's that more needs to be done? well, i think the issue of the government now saying that if we declare, for example, that is also allocated for development that might be, might to be. and that if i said to humanity, i think when people are in crisis, the 1st thing that they don't will all those. and i really disagree with my colleagues that the, the 1st thing that the, or the other governments, with all of these, maybe it's talking the development and saving people's life. i think that that's

one of the priority for whatever reason i'm going government. and the other thing is that yes, was he seeing that the people are dying because of the drought? the government is there. of course the challenge is that is the security challenge . bit of the challenge that is resource mobilization. challenge all these challenges being there and people talk about what is happening that people are dying of hunger dying of past on. yes, the government is not capable to capable of reaching it when it declares farming it is like reaching, but it is calling for other people to come on us. now, the to think about the decimal tomatti here is that the government but government capacity in terms of responding to the crisis, even if it is in popularity with international actors. if limit that for now. but

if you could be less fun and more resources, more human capital on the life will come in, in terms of responding to the crisis. now in the government say that we cannot declare time in pockets of the country, for example, that happened in 102011 that happened in 1992. now, why is it that when there was no government that happened and the respond about was made by this will monitor themselves the international community, save the life. why is it that the now that we have affected goldman, it is now sitting on the dish on i can't understand the hold on i, i think that is a good time to, to bring you in here. look to hear a government has plato. sorry. god, hold on in 2011 martin who had was just saying, man, obviously, not literally a quarter of

a 1000000 people died in somalia and 2011. i was there myself watching it unfold. i . i was on the ground reporting and i recalled that actually when famine was declared, literally more than half of those deaths had already taken place. so my question then to you is, is why wait? you had a saying that there's an emergency situation that, that, that emergency relief needs to be prioritized over long term development. and you yourself have mentioned that there's enough resources there. but i understand that only what 43 percent of the humanitarian response plan for this year has actually been funded. i'm, i think i was here in 2011 when the federal declaration was going on and i sought the, the maximum debt that's been happening. luckily this is not the case now. i think there is a misrepresentation of the severity of where we are today. i think there needs to be more focus on preventative measures rather than focusing on technicalities on

whereas the minute is today. i mean, i am in the shop. i agree with him when he says, why are we not distributing what we already have? nearly half a 1000000 people are extremely good in here. maybe about 10 and 20 kilometers from where i am within the borders. i think that we need to have an honest conversation in terms of what the intentions are of the declaration of famine. i mean, obviously at the moment we don't meet the criteria, but i do have our colleagues who are pushing the declaration just to meet the international standards to actually increase in families off the back up from i think that's not what the government the government has done what they need to do then needs to be more work needs to be done and the president maybe wrapping up the, the rhetoric on delivery or nation releasing what's already there. i think there's a lack that within the international community and how they responded to this

crisis is a wait watching. wait. i phenomenon that's going on right now. and i think i will push it back to the international partners who are the largest purse in from our new company. might have a nice to start actually activating and releasing the funds that have been declared . the united states alone gave nearly a $1000000000.00 to somebody on humanity and response. we're not seeing that level of response to the ground. so i needed to question our partners to growing back to the jobs. the government in terms of the government. the government is just funding, do we need to obviously that's what i the crisis our cohort, but i really do think we are sort of sites that be a real issue. which is why are we not acting now in terms of responding to those increases? and i think i hope that everyone is calling for as much action as possible, and as soon as possible, i'm afraid we'll have to worry about discussion today there. thank you though to

our guests who had a don fury l. me and hold on ali. and thank you to for watching, you can see this program again any time by visiting our website that's al jazeera dot com. and to further discussion, do go to our facebook page that facebook dot com forward slash ha inside story. you can also join the conversation on twist that we are at a j incident story from an associate a and the whole team here and our ha bye for now. a sense of belonging. we are very close knit community. everybody knows everybody and the every day he rules keeping communities together. this is the same for a few. said that my universe h a 0 visit scotland out or hebrides and meet schools. fighting to see that either this way of life in the face of its plummeted population. a sense of

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