willing to dialogue, you can't say, i'm going to talk about the conflict, but not with all the actors that are involved. that would be absurd. those who are willing to talk, you will be part of the debate we propose, and i said so far the rebel group say they're not interested. and those who are are making demands that precedent, but each will unlikely meet as long as the violence continues to see in human al jazeera santiago. and you can watch the rest, understand humans interview with president gabriel. rich on talked to al jazeera this saturday, november 19th at 430 gmc time it activists sprayed black paint on life and death. a painting by gustav clement at vienna. leopold museum, a group last generation. same responsibility on twitter. museum says the painting was damaged in the attack, time and activists to stage similar protests in the past months, including throwing tomatoes, super fine, got paintings in london and rome, and doing themselves to the frame of

a goya in madrid. dozens of museums across the world of express concern of the tax . ah, montana top stories are now to 0 in breaking news as senior us intelligence official says russian missiles of crossed into poland, killing at least 2 people. permanent government set to meet in the next half hour. it follows a series of russian attacks on several cities across ukraine, including the capital cave, and as far west as livid residential buildings and energy facilities were struck and what's been described as the heaviest assault wave of the war. so far. so no haul has more from levine on the reports of missiles falling in poland. this is an emerging and involving evolving story. the details of it. i can give you with ease that add about 1540 in the afternoon, just about at exactly the time as missiles were falling here and keep it other

places in ukraine. they were reports of an explosion in polish territory about 10 kilometers on the polish side of the board, just near the ship. a deuce crossing that's just north of the northern ukrainian city even leave was one of the targeted cities and explosion, apparently caused by a missile falling in agricultural land, killing 2 poles again, as i said on polish territory, another polish government has convened an emergency meeting of its security council, thousands of people in the democratic republic of congo have fled their homes as fighting near the eastern border city of goma. where you and troops are patrolling the streets. but it is in the area have become a scene of battles between the congolese army and am $23.00 rebels. the government accuses rwanda of backing the rebels. a claim that country denies international red cross as to trucks carrying medical supplies have arrived in ethiopia to cry region

. it's the 1st humanitarian, a delivery since the seas far agreement was signed between the government and rebels. earlier this month, fierce republican party is now just one seat away from controlling the house of representatives. they have 217 seats, 218 and needed to form a majority. it's a week since the midterm elections and several seats are still being counted. democrats have retained control of the senate. there's but up stories to stay with us, you know now to 0 stream is coming out next of that with more news straight out of that. thanks for watching life enough. ah. i

welcome to the stream, i'm at savvy dean city in for family. ok. tens of thousands of people in eastern democratic republic of congo have been forced to free their homes as government forces battle the resurgent m. 23 militia. now as the rebels draw closer to the major city of goma, we look at how civilians are coping and ask what it will take to bring the fighting to an end. ah, joining us for today's conversation. reagan bavaria is an activist with lucia, a youth based civil society movement. he joins us from goma, also in grammar. we have now come web, he's a senior al jazeera correspondent and completing our line up from go. my grand lady is unicef representative in congo. thank you. so much for joining us, all 3 of you and remember, you can always send us your comments or questions here on youtube and i'll be sure

to put them to our desk directly. so let's start with a little bit of basic background to this conflict. m $23.00 or the march 23rd movement is mostly conga leads to the militia. now in 2012, it briefly sees goma, the capital of north keybo province, and in 2013 the government and m 23 reached a peace deal. but in late 2021 and 23 resumed fighting, saying that the government had not kept its promises. as am 23 leads a new offensive now, in north kiva, the congress government says neighboring. rwanda is giving support to the rebels. the government in kigali denies any involvement. now, with those facts in mind, i want to just start by kind of addressing the why, why is this happening, malcolm? if you have to kinda boil it down, why are we seeing this renewed violence? don't just come get government. the keys is wonder enrollment. i mean you and

investigators linked to report. earlier this year we seen photographs of ro got ruined and soldiers with $23.00 even videos. we proceed with a release from am to 3, showed that fighters wearing rwandan equipment, equipment and and it doesn't come through and it does deny it and we always include give them the right reply and include that denial. but it doesn't surprise anyone in this region. java, another iteration of was widely to believe to be over one then backed on rebellion and $23.00 rebelled against the colonies government 10 years ago with london support. before that came c, n, d, p in 2008, 2009. at the chapter history in the, in the 990 miranda, you got the invaded in 96 following the one, the genocide that have been accused of repeatedly entering with the military's meddling and of lifting minerals. it's not sensitive to kind of repetition of this

. why is it happening now? yeah, i mean, a year ago, congos ami congress government let in. you've gotten the nami, you know, given it to the province, ostensibly to fly and call the adf at the time. relations were not good between you gander, miranda and i wonder, objected to his rival being given access to eastern congo where it's made money in the past. and so what was the point when we started seeing and $23.00 active again, which a lot of people understand to be under a setting itself, militarily, anything, convey sure, every student stand relations between those 2 countries have improved. and then it was widely seen as a sort of a weak moment for the calmly government and the congress forces with relations, particularly poor, the un peacekeepers a here. and i probably many people it's, it's an open door a month or unity to, to come in again. and they bring country and you know,

when we talk about the neighboring countries, i want to kind of broaden this out for a 2nd for those who are not familiar. and i appreciate that context to begin with reagan when we look at the civilian toil. i mean, the displacement of civilians and also just the detect, you know, the conditions that are deteriorating so rapidly. what is of major concern to you and what looks different perhaps this time? reagan? yes, that's the major concern. it's about the share of people who has moved from that place is worth being obliged to move from villages. but sort of saw the need for they need a station. there is a lot of needs and so far and mentality and response as being a slow. ready slow right, an animal and, and i see, sorry, i don't interject, but when we talk about the humanitarian response,

i know you're particularly focused on children grant. we have a video common in fact, or i should say, this is from the you and hcr is joel smith. that raises this point, take a listen to what he had to say to me since hi, this placement science forces to free the cautious including warning resumes. harris free sheltering 23000 people. chris and she has to flee overnight. ready so you've gotten, you're a senior and the outskirts is going for many. this isn't the 1st time the conflicts and violence. we're seeing families driven upon. many of those 1st arrives in general, she knew unaccompanied children already lived through trauma confluence. so grand children being abducted we've heard, you know, either killed named or even, you know, so far as so much sex or violence reported what would concerns you most here?

well, thank you. and that's just to, to, 1st of all, i put a few numbers that you mentioned, tens of thousands but, but actually since the, the, the ups, the escalation from the 20th of october, it's estimated a new 188000. i'm bringing the total to since the beginning of march this year when things started to reactivate, right? as messy was mentioning up to about $240000.00 overall. so in terms of displace people, a 150000 of those in round numbers have arrived just north of government and then you know, gone, go area. can you change this? let's think of about 25000 households. so as, as reagan was mentioning, there's the immediate concerns or water sanitation on that. i just want to add,

this is a zone that he's well known for cholera. we have done about a 160 interventions in just the last week on the caller alerts, shelter is a major problem. some people are sleeping literally on and this, this is an error with like lava, you know, from previous volcanic eruptions and having, we've seen mothers, you know, have the, the babies lying on top of them and then a small piece of plastic. yeah. to just, you know, when we say shelter, we need to be clear, really setting right on the child protection area. you know your question about the different sort of concerns we've had. we've since march had a 1500 separated children identified a 1200 of those have been re, unified with their families over 200 children, child soldiers,

children associated groups have been identified and released and have gone through rehabilitation services. and then we've also had over 300, and we've had a 140 very 5 cases of gender baseline. and so the protection issues a significant, of course, and grand. i appreciate those numbers those statistics. but of course, as we all know, it's all the more impactful to really hear those personal stories. i know malcolm in one of your packages. earlier this week for al jazeera, you spoke to a woman who survived a rape by am 23 fighters. i'd love to play the clip for our audience and then we'll come back to you on the end of it. take a listen. gloria not her real name says she was pregnant when she was gang raped by fighters from the n 23 rebel group. earlier this year there was nobody to help

me. when i woke up i was in hospital, my neighbor had rescued me. i don't know what they used because i was badly torn, and my blood was leaking. gloria's baby died before she gave birth, and was surgically removed. now she's joined the nearly 200000 people have fled their homes. the conditions in the camp subsides risen to food or clean water, and the shelters don't keep out the rain while congos army and most of its armed groups are accused of widespread right to be says, the fact that tens of thousands of people have chosen to come here, leaving behind their homes and their farms give some indication of just how scared they are of m 23. malcolm, watching that back and knowing all that, you know, based on your coverage in past years, looking back at the conflict, of course, as you mentioned at the top, this isn't new. how does it compare in terms of what the people are having to endure? i mean,

i guess and me what seems that i guess really quite sad about it or be depressing. is that adding to enjoy the same things again? i was here in 2008 when the c and d b. i were talking in 20122013 the fact that yeah, it was kind of history. seems like history repeating, same things happening again. that's terrible. and then i'm guessing the case of rights abuses. i mean, you said then the story is not only just m 23, it talks commonly the army is accused of right. be says on many occasions over the course, emily, better when they're waiting that better when they're funded, they're better when they're fed and watered the west moment when they're being beaten. when the retreating, the grades of an accused of fighting alongside congress, they also deny about including the f d alive and others. and 23 are fighting alongside and then known for right to

be seen and breach up in the thirty's they control. yeah, it was unique about 23. they operate to miss them like a conventional army and, and in the past and it's taken over territories. it's them administered them as prison prisoners. and i because it i history because they've done that before then the population is a very good rank these guys, reagan. we just heard malcolm bring up the fear. obviously the fear factor, not just from m 23, but just escalating situation and even regionally, which we'll discuss in a few minutes. but i do want to ask you, we heard from patricia who and she's a freelance journalist, she had a very interesting point. i want to play it for you and then ask you something going gen 23. wearable have advanced in recent weeks. they have he's several keystones and they are no near but 30 kilometers away from go mad. probably in shall capital. why they not for sure. however, if,

if the rebels had the intention to push forward and try to, he's go miles, they did a dk, the go. what seems clear is that they want to put more pressure and that has more negotiating power at the talks that will take place in the next week with the company. so sorry, keep in the meantime obviously the tv and populations that scary the worst burden of the crisis reagan when you listen to patricia and knowing that we've seen civilians attacking a u. n. p convoy. earlier this week we've seen obviously maybe the united nations role being limited. what are, what are your concerns about the or their ability to actually protect civilian? yes, the main thing is that there is there is no longer trust difference that region, no foresees, are more news call even with very hard to see. so that is a big problem when you come to the population. so the population is not really

working for. busy for any protection from me, and from that for me, please keep us. but that means though, so that's when it's come to for ya, when it comes to due to all the cache and people can tend to be also violent. and that's something that should be thinking are going to make sure that the population is in it. yeah. when we make sure that the population is getting a bit more information and see if there is no information or tend to create new and of course and of course not to interrupt but, but how bigger role has fake news been playing? i mean, we've seen the conversation on social media really erupt thing in terms of misinformation

and fear mongering. yes we, we've seen that, you know, there is a lot of sense which breathing, fake news and day. i don't you formation. that's making people be in this dance should to day there will be done soon because your comp where i was and people was there was this room or that ok. the energy free. it's just right. you don't get that from that. make people moving on the fence and that's would be dangerous. yeah. and i, and i see that grant is nodding as you're, as you're making that point. and i do want to ask you, you know, grant, we've seen the fear is rising. we've seen what hundreds, if not thousands joining the fight against them. 23 volunteering if you will. we

also have this clip actually that will play from malcolm's package earlier this week. you know, where people are signing up to join the military. a lot of people in our youtube shot or discussing that issue, take a look grant these men say they want to fight democrats, republicans, comrades, army says everyone more than 3000 people who responded to a cool for recruit menu by human law. i am here because we are suffering too much my family, my sister's. they have suffered a lot from war. some of them were right. so we have because from now on, i need to defend myself. you know, grand when you hear that and i want to both, he's not going to go in the story. i was i was careful not to to do attribute this claim that these people are recruit to the army, the army that said that they were great. ok, that's

a great point. i think you froze. i don't know the sorry you fro malcolm. go ahead . contains fine. yeah, yeah. go ahead. ok. it seems like we're having a little issue malcolm. forgive me. i'm going to have to cut you off there just because we're having a little bit of an issue. hopefully we can sort that out, but i appreciate you kind of kind of, i think what you were trying to do is kind of, you know, put that into some context and explain the perspective and who is making that claim . we'll come back to you if you will. actually, let's just try continue your plan. i think we were clear, go ahead. k. see if it's the signal. how's up? but to me they looked a lot like guys we saw in 2014. after the time the and $23.00 with the 3 to now a lot of the groups have anything kong. i start with 99, the early 2000 community members defending themselves against the foreign armies, including rwanda and you can come into the country. and then when m 23,

which is widely seen to be approx, april 1 that was defeated in 2013. the government called a lot of these groups that come out the bush because from their perspective being kind of arch rival for decades. and finally, for once, been to see. yeah. so a 1000 to these guys in a demobilization camp. then i think many of them went said they left, went back to the bush. others went to other parts of the country, but the way that they sang the songs were muscular. joking around together, these demobilized militia was exactly like what we saw with the people that the congolese army said when you recreate. so we also spokesmen if, if the, the, the mobile, our eyes militia guys coming back and they denied it. and they said that they're not fighting with grades, but we will say wait and see if you guys will actually be given uniforms and guns and will be trained right last time. and they will still come out there by the round about here and even going i'm, yes, i'd like to call my son, please. yet regarding that,

if you will know that they have many prob, then when you come to recruitment, when it comes to equipment, then when he's come in about not in house or are i manage inside the army. so i think that's something you posted. we couldn't just pick about having more men in the army, but we need also to make sure that the me is responsible for helping people accountable for that happening. that's right. and also to make sure that the general school mind is key. i, we know we are there and people was being asked us for violation of human rights should be put aside from the army and he being said, yeah, bit buried there is, there is real muggy ration of the population to make sure that bacon. but it's also,

yeah, to, and reagan. and that's of course, that's of course important. it's also important that we bring in some additional voices from you to people, timing and grant. perhaps i'll put some of these comments and questions to you de boe thing. how large is the rebel group in comparison to government forces and been lucky, she making perhaps you know, kind of a premonition of what's the come thing d r c has been purposely weakened by the international community and sebastian saying, congo will end up like 2 dan divided by 2 east will be another state. do you think grant that that's the possible possible. yes. so mother just want to come back to cover a lot of ground. yeah. the 1st thing i wanted to mention is there was a discussion around going to fake news news and manipulation of different media channels. so i think just to run through this very quick, i mean,

1st of all on that, it's very difficult to do real time verification of what's, what's confirmed as opposed to a kind of a deliberate sort of room, a set of to generate stuff. second, i wanted to just comment on the, the call to mobilize the youth and it 2 very important things. then number one is, there's an age verification process that has been established with f, a r c. yeah, it's extremely important that that age verification process is a strictly applied when there's a significant number. and in the same way also the, there's the issue of the training of new recruits, right? to be a professional train. well, and then just, i think, you know, a comment on your, your, you know, the check these other questions because we're running out of time to go ahead. yet

we haven't talked about this is extremely mineral reach part of the, our feet, right? so there, there are a lot of interest around around the strategic resources. and i think that the question of whether the extent to which the international community or ease of use in info i 1st of all, part of the problem is around the, you know, some of the other major glue crisis, such as ukraine, russia and their number of others, right, but you know, the question is whether the effectiveness, it's the effectiveness of all of the diplomatic assets. right. and there's only been a lot of that. so it's going to succeed, of course, and i see malcolm's nodding. he was nodding throughout a lot of your interjections there, and malcolm before we wrap, i want to come to you based on what you just heard from grant. knowing that there's been a lot of criticism levied of the u. k. of the us. when we look at the macro big picture

of why this might be happening again, i want to ask you, what is the goal my does fall to the rebels? i mean, is that likely in your estimation? military source is responding to everybody. here is a can familiar with the forces involved seems to think that sooner or later and 23 with its cause widely believed to ab rwandan, people could take home or if they really wanted to come to the 4th is a companion then of food, then of water don't have enough ammunition, and they say that the enemy, that their thing is being kind of refreshed and replenished and they break well armed. everyone does deny it, but then if indeed it was rwanda and possibly gotten to behind this movement, then i think if they do have the choice they are, the military gave him realty, and then the choice of whether or not they take goma, then the few factors would be the and any 12 that was what really turned up the diplomatic pressure on run that to then pull back and, and eventually brought in international support to come go to,

to defeat them. and other possibilities that you understand they're being supported by a significant number of london. so just in case they divide visible in the city and that would make the position harder to defend and internationally. but in terms of the negotiations coming out that have been mentioned. thing both sides will be interested in militarily getting a stronger positions as possible. and if the incoming forces surround goma to the north and to the west render to the east, then that would even that alone would put them in a strong position for negotiations from a military point to be. and very, very quickly, if i can grant to circle back, you know, people making these concerns that the international community is purposely weakening the d r c. what do you make of that? i just want to come back to an earlier comment from reagan, which i agree with the humanitarian response to this crisis is,

is some, it's not at the scale, it needs to be. so we need immediate, we need significant red resources. we need to move the piece to safe side next to water supply. and we have identify these. these are being discussed with authority. well, well, grant grant that some brilliant points bring up. i'm unfortunately gonna have to cut you off there, but it really is going to be a question to see how that gets scaled up. that's all for today. i want to thank reagan, malcolm and grant. remember at home you can always find us online at streamed on al jazeera dot com. thanks for watching. ah aah.

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