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tv   Inside Story  Al Jazeera  November 17, 2022 2:30pm-3:01pm AST

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seen one 3rd and half of the fans heading to matches are expected to hop on a free ride. also free shuttle buses to carry crowds during peak demand. one of the thank to balance be said the speak as the to give the spectator and multiply multiple options to utilize a, either of them at a metro the buses, the torment of the tournament buses. so they have multiple options to move around the city. cut our residents are being asked to drive to the stadiums, to help reduce congestion on mass transit. 1700 kilometers or highways and make the roads which include $207.00, a bridges. in addition to $143.00 under for, and a combination under passes and tunnels, which definitely can, you know, give the free flow for a traffic during the world cup. the public works authority has also built more than
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2100 kilometers of bike and footpaths. fi. pedestrian underpasses have been designed to keep the crowds flowing in what will be the most heavily trafficked areas. cut our 2022 organizers say. the 1st world cup in the middle east will also make history as the 1st to be carbon neutral critic say the plan is not credible, but organizers say this is another opportunity to end the ne saying, while striving to reduce the carbon footprint of one of the biggest sports events in the world. natasha name al jazeera. doha. ah, you're watching out his era. these are the headlines this hour. the u. k. government is set to present its emergency budget tax hoc san spending cuts are expected off to inflation. he'd a 41 year high last month,
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ukraine's his russia is targeting critical facilities across several cities. there are reports of explosions in the southern port of odessa and the central city of den april. the capital cave is facing blackouts. russia has stepped up a tax on ukrainian energy facilities in recent weeks. a deal that ensured safe passage of millions of tons of grain from ukraine has been extended. the deal broken by chakiya and the un allowed grand shipments through the black saying the un secretary general has extended it by 120 days. sent him casea lou has the latest from east temple. extending the steel is very important given, given that there is a very big a food inflation all around the world. and especially because of the crisis in ukraine in syria and other economic developments. the prices are going up every
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every day and many have suggested do then has said earlier that if the grand deal doesn't continue, if it weighs, do not reach countries, the foot crisis might reach to worse the dimensions and the coming year. that's why it is very important. okay, those are the headlines. i'm emily anglin. the nice continues here on out jazeera optic inside story. do stay with us. ah. a miss aisle has landed in poland, killing 2 people. ukraine accuses russia as moscow denies any involvement us on nato. are investigating can the risk of a spillover from the war and ukraine?
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it contained, this is inside story. ah hello and welcome to the program. i'm laura kyle. a missile strike in poland has raised fairs. the war in ukraine could spill over into neighboring countries, and that has the potential to pull the western military alliance nato, directly into the conflict. the strike kill 2 people in a polish village near the ukrainian border. a grain is blaming russia, but moscow says it had nothing to do with it. poland identifies the message as russian made, but both russia and ukraine have this weapon in their arsenals. early investigations just it may have been fired by ukrainian forces to intercept an incoming russian missile. helen's president says there is no evidence to suggest the attack was
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deliberate. who was to be sure to get up. it was probably an es $300.00 rocket made in the soviet union, an old rocket. there is no evidence that it was launched by the russian side. it is highly probable that it was fired by ukrainian anti aircraft defense and unfortunately fell on al territory on ups or poland as a member of nato, which held an emergency meeting in brussels. it's actually general says russia is ultimately to blame our preliminary analysis. so just thought the insolent will slightly caused by the ukranian air defense miss thorn fired to the ferns, ukrainian territory against rushing a cruise missile attacks. but let me be clear, this is not ukraine's fault. russia bears ultimate responsibility. ah, suit continuous,
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it's illegal war against ukraine or back in to in the us announced it would open a permanent military base in poland to boost nato's defences. in countries bordering ukraine, the alliance has added for new combat units in slovakia, romania, bulgaria, and hungry. just this week, germany announced it will establish a maintenance hub in slovakia to service and repair weapons. it has delivered to ukraine and since september, the slovak, our spaces being protected by the check and polish air forces, that's after the country decided to phase out the use of its soviet era make $29.00 fighters. moldova remains relatively neutral at closed its air space to the world when the invasion began and announced a state of emergency the well now let the bring in our guests and in belfast we have alexander to told the lecturer in modern european history at queen's university. belfast and
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a specialist on russia in singapore, summer, perri, a visiting lecturer and was study that kings college london and all 3 of the book rushes road to war with ukraine and in washington, bobbitt hunter, a former us ambassador to nate. so under president bill clinton of i will welcome to all of you, a robot. if i could start with you, this is a day that many predicted would come the spillover of rushes war into nato territory. how have you rated the response? well, i'm not sure it really is a spillover of the war that implies something quite major. if you're grading missile that when of course, then it's actually rather minor matter eyes. every spot here has been very interesting. the president does not want to see escalation. if at all possible, he wants so russia to back off wants to support mister zelinski and what he's doing
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in ukraine. but to have was the administration has kept his message very tightly controlled and has not gotten ahead of the facts. and this is a good thing because more than the actual matter that took place on polars territory is a symbolism, it has. and the heightened anxiety within various nato countries, mostly along the frontier with ukraine. and there might be a wider war. so it's just like a logical impact, which is far more important than the incident it show. alexander, it does seem that russia has appreciated the calm response from the u. s. might one guy so far to say this is gone some way to improving trust between the 2 sides. know, the fact that americans are as
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a kind of careful message and they really, really reasonably assume they own assessments, which of course, they see everything. what happens, and what, when the sausage flying from and so forth in this area, i suggested that they don't want explanation, but at the same time, the message is also coming very clear that roches bearing ultimate responsibility. this is kind of a message we've been kind of sent out by all the nato countries and they basically, they this point in time, at least they're quite happy the way things are going in a sense that they're happy to level of support for your brain. and that will help you brain is doing against roches so far. so other moments there's no reason for escalation. but the same time, this incident shows that you cannot always control escalation in these areas in this, in the circumstances. and of course, it's just a reminder that it is actually can aspire out of control quite quite easily between
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nato ross as well as between russia and ukraine. and, well, how close do you think it was to spiraling out of control? i don't think at all was people hadn't suspected chance chauffeur assessment or most of the other l i don't want to be engaged in is almost all of them. and i was so called frog liner or just for their future. but given the uncertain days, various chancellor is within nato began to become more anxious as it started working to their own security arrangements. what this does illustrate, i think, is that nato, your west, et cetera, has been in an adequate and helping ukraine deal with incoming missiles. cruise missile trance and cetera, which are now obviously designed to capitalize on his, to her was called general winter to try to black out ukraine during a very,
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very difficult winter. and also to send a message to west european countries their own. hey, i just wonder could be directly or indirectly at risk. so what does not need is german airplanes. what is needed is high quality anti missile defenses, which the state has ensured recent line. okay, we'll come back to that point in just a moment festival submit. although mostly to seem to agree that this was this miss l was a miss, fire from ukraine. ukraine is still not accepting that why knows? so the credibility of the defense systems. and this is the building on the point that robert made. this is one of the most important defensive features of ukraine, still standing in the war. and i think it's worth reminding ourselves that the area
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around the polish border has been targeted by the russians and then long distance missile strikes in the bus. one strike in particular, came to mind from us. the reason of this blast and painting that was on the 13th of marching in a place called government, which is just to the west of the b, isn't ukraine, but not too far from the polish border. the russian said that they struck a hope for western military assistance being sent from nato, from poland into, into western ukraine to be dispersed in the wars. and so, you know, obviously this is a very well protective parts of ukraine given its importance as a hub. and i think the ukrainians will be really keen to signal to all around that . this is not something that they can, they can fail to defense. oh, are you crazy saying it once, immediate access to the impact site that it wants to be involved in the investigation discovery my therapy, if you can, what that investigation is going to look like and what more it's going to tell us. i mean, seeing the, the debris at the, at the sort of source of the,
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of the fragmentation, if it survives the blog movie, the some sort of fragments i, she survives a blas that might allow for definitive conclusions to be drawn as to who's, who's miss all it was especially if the ukrainians privately want to work out what had happened if it wasn't one of their defense missiles, they may actually also be wondering what, what mistake was made or whether the initial system is triggered by accident. or perhaps what we don't hear is that there is actually a response to an active russian strike or threat of a russian strike. and i think there's a picture to be booked to put together by the ukrainians. well, you mentioned before that the blame alexander does. does still fit very squarely with russia most needed still saying this is russia's responsibility for thought the war in the 1st place? do you think that's acceptable in any way to russia? well, i think they are going beyond. i mean, when the whole war started,
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that was already a sign that they don't care about the west things. rice it's, it's a matter of who gets come on the battle ground. so that's a move to that stage. so there's no contract. there's no out trying to win hearts and minds and so forth on either side. but with this, i think that the criminal will be kind of more than happy that you know, the 1st like which actually kills too much for us citizens will came from ukraine, relevant from russia. ukraine reaction would be kind of quite interesting. as you said, the still insisting that it was ross, miss island, the secretary of a security council denila just said that the, they have proof that it was russia, even though you know, i think it's pretty clear. i mean, the, the, the pentagon wouldn't be saying if they had any data that it was you credit source if they had it and you talk about it. so i think that you're going to play religion carefully because basically the assumption is, let's just blend the russia and we won't from this and even like the crane is not
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moving on. i see resisting other kind of russian or that it was russian, me say, might go on to mine, it's understanding in the long term, but so they have to kind of be careful how to play it. and russia also has to be capital. i've doesn't know we've had to at least one rather unhelpful comment from the kremlin, from the former president to meet you met with who said earlier today that the explosion says that the west is moving closer to another world war. that's pretty inflammatory. well, i mean that's me do it if i can develop this random for being very vocal hawk on his telegram channel since the started yeah, but i mean, you know, that we keep the roster of course is that to keep out nature as much as possible from ukraine, including from supplies or weapons if it's can and so forth. so yeah, that's rhetoric. it goes some ways to reminding what's at stake. but i think the
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overall effects to happen because it's bill from, from level to say, but it was the grant and responsible would be, can be beneficial for russia. the way they say it's that it's actually a can a few grains fold and you can, can be trotted and so forth. that really is no appetite at all from nato countries. is that to escalate this war to enter it against russia? that's absolutely true. in fact, the fact of the national show are almost their materials. it's what individual countries new leaders make of it. as an old clinical on an american statecraft, no good crisis should go to waste and out for the great news. however, this happened. his help illustrate to the west that unless there is greater help for ukraine in particular in its air defenses, are its defenses against missiles. this kind of thing can happen and it might just
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might get out of control. so the ukraine, i think very smart from their perspective to emphasize they ask her story out possibilities, and to tell you is for mr. madame comments. i put more or less the same category of the shape, robert brighton, mr. potent over nuclear weapons. the use of nuclear weapons, this conflict is an absolute absurdity in the sense that it would be a miscalculate of, of the greatest order world history. so your question is what you have now stern messages to moscow overall about trying to bring a reward to an end. and also stopping up to supply the high quality anti missional capacity to your credit. they semester, we expect of ukrainians to, to increase their call for more of such weapons system high quality anti missile
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systems. absolutely. and actually, what be one of the lensky talk, talking points is focusing quite specifically on this issue of air and defense systems. clearly because ukrainian cities are the nowhere near the ground war, cities along the v. odessa, even key of now, a stooping, struck intermittently by these rushing, long range weapons, a variety of rushing weapons, in fact, cruise missiles, all the way to these cycle kamikaze during supplied by the irradiance. so there is a clear defensive need. i would say that with that comes the obvious, hasn't that you're packing in into the cities in these areas. lots of a defense system, salt which may be from different countries because some may come from the usa. some may come from some of these over to the russian stall as 30400 systems. and so there's a huge need as well of ukrainians to maintain a situational awareness, to make sure that they're not here for these things by accident. because that can
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happen and what goes up must come down. and i think that's one of the, the lessons, the obvious lessons from this particular a tragedy in poland. and that's an interesting points to me, because russia did actually say today that tuesday strikes on the residential areas of cave will actually ukraine anti aircraft missiles again, misfiring. and do you think there was any truth in that, or they, leaping on today's misfire? to excuse all the other missile strikes from yesterday. i think lori itself really critical point, which is the sort of counter claims. the claims of miss attribution. russians or of course pos. moss is a mr. mississippi saying things on purpose. and it's interesting with the boston, poland, there's almost a sense that the russian foreign minister is trying to print, portray this is a ukraine false flag operation to draw the poles in, i guess draw nate, so and so i think once we have to take these things very skeptically, in terms of how the russians frame, what's happening,
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that information was that messaging conflict is, is a part of the conflicts unfolding and parallel to the mediation to the destination and actually causing loss of life how the war is framed by science. and indeed, the media space is a really important point because this is probably one of the most coveted conflicts ever. technology is moved also we see a loss for multiple angles, use a footage and everything else. really important aspects. i think that's important. alexander, how close you know, following the state media media in russia. how is this incident being covered that i think it's kind of, they were very quick to make the point that it was a credit in miss i'll even before the official statements from nature. and so forth, but, and, you know, they, they blame you. i mean that the doing all the points and over the change in rhetoric for all the new shows on. so that was ross and miss, i'll figuring article for getting out of 5, you know,
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making it really the case and then saying when it's brutal, not to be ukrainian is all the way says like, nothing, nothing to say here. let's move on. it's ross's fault anyway, even if you couldn't. is it so that much because it's a, it's a big program to we know there's no question about it. you know, for internal consumption. i don't think it makes a difference in international and because the natal support free credit will not be affected by the incidence like such as this, but the mystical yes, it is a big winters and probably mentioned before that the u. s. s. mouth is going to open a permanent military base in poland. that's to boost native defenses in those countries that a bordering ukraine is. it's enough to get that permanent base in poland to defend for, to deflect an instance like this happening again. well no, i don't think it has any direct impact on this is the a not is showing reinforcement cycle logically as much as anything else to affected
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nato countries based might be rower in terms of helping to maintain equipment spaniards in your grid. but it's really basically what one has to be very careful on both sides as it really comes down to another point, which is at what point as long as start working on what's called war termination. at what point i ukraine demonstrated that russia will not prevail. and at one point, while mr. brewton feels a claim that he is validated. what he called her as elementary objectives in. he has special motor operation, which relates to essential a rush and speaking parts of, of ukraine, including the crimea. the important thing now is for wise people to start thinking about, how are you trying to bring it to a halt in ways that will meets
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a minimal objective about size. and the answer is no. par can be found and documented already. this is called missed to a miss to explain more. oh miss true. said in fact, i wish your greed between russia and ukraine with the germans to their friendship involved. we were not enrolled, that there should be some form of limited autonomy for the areas in south 1000, southeastern ukraine that are now under combat. and under contention, they recite crimea, neither ukraine or russia followed through agreement. but at least there has been discussions of what could i can outcome in out on the way what, what you're going to have to have is the cranium having sovereignty over everything . but that the people in these areas, having
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a chance to live in which they can use directional language. and so sir, but were russian soldiers after get out or crane cow, we are already in pre negotiations, negotiations. you can hear what the average pay says, what soleski said, even some things that are being said from the russian side of one of the questions, just how much damage will continue to be done and i ukraine during this winter. how much damage to the grid, sense supply heat, and why that sarah, before serious to go shoes, where they get on is these attacks against the grid, aren't client in par, or put into established a more preferential and negotiating i stand, but we're already in pre negotiations ok somewhere. what's your response, isaac, of the big picture for a moment. the end of the war. how does it come about is meant to the way to go. i
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mean, it suggests that ukraine must be open to negotiations. robert saying pre negotiations are already happening of ukraine strenuously denies that, as it is not in a place where it is ready to open any kind of talks with the russians. what is the ukranian position him for recruiting on mince to? so i worked in the o. s. c e monitoring mission and supportive means to you in the 1st russian invasion, 201415 and, you know, i had a written, signed seat to how thou unfolded. i was in ukraine actually in east ukrainian, don bass when the bolts of was was taken by the separatist just at the same time over by others in minutes. the agreement was being negotiated. ukrainian negotiators back in february 2015. they had their backs against the walls, i had to really make concessions of negotiating table because the bolts was taken, marable was threatened, yada yada, yada, so and so forth. and the difference. now we weren't to pop rural. that slightly is
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the ukrainians built. they have the winds in their sales, militarily. it's a very different war, so much bigger war. and my, my sort of conclusion, like i wrote the book, to explore some of the reasons and ways in which you could actually bring, bring this to an end in a longer term. sadly, i don't think the misc formula is going to work. now too much blood has been shed. sadly, i think some form of defacto, if not, does your a politician may actually be the outcome and, and just follow point on this laura. the analogy you actually draw is, believe it or not cyprus, conflicts and a division which i think is us games many people's active memories. but there are some diplomatic fudges around what isn't, isn't sovereign territory, and how you deal with a failed in a partially successful invasion, taking some territory and, but the rest of it was, so i think a long way away from this though, i still think pre negotiations perhaps, but the ukrainians, going to want to explore the battle field, the fullest extension of that, the occupation potentially if i can ask you like alex i did just in the last minute
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we have a process view on meant to whether or not it would accept limited autonomy in areas such as crimea and don't boss, is there a way for me is never included crimea. so premier was always like all to from google asians means to do it to is that because, well that's what rossi is invaded because it's, it's decided that it was never going to be implemented. and it was never going to be committed because it will simply pop the 2 and popular in ukraine to be implemented. any president trying to plant it, actually implement grill implemented? would have been a 16 stiff political resistance within your grade. yes, so bear with one line and it's just it will and not anywhere near as well for negotiations. but the question is, where they are on the line, the front line will be when the negotiation to it should start probably in the years on a couple of years time. i think that's what we're always about, you know,
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facts on the ground where the, the dividing line will, will, will be i got a from that does have to be our final line. many thanks. indeed, for joining us, alexander, take off some ap worry and robert hunter and thank you to for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting a web site that's out there at dot com. and to further discussion tickets will facebook page that's facebook dot com forward slash ha inside story. even us during the conversation on twitter, we are at ha, inside story from me laura kyle and the whole team here. ah ah. and
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a low to base it and more politically engaged than ever before. demanding change on their own terms. welcome to generation change. a global theories attends to understand. i'm telling you i gave that mobilize youth around a group presentation of people like us in the politics and government and higher aspects of society. generation change coming seen on al jazeera, there was a time to be direct there basically on the verge of legalizing racial, jerry battery to cut through the rhetoric. this isn't a universal death already crisis. the seems to be one of particular populations to dismantle the sound bites. there are lots and lots of women who are white agenda, a kind of anti feminist agenda, and demand the truth. those the size of fascism. we have to really recognize what we're up here. we are determining what is the future of democracy in this country.
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