considered as soon as the additional fam zones and fun activities, it's also available for the fee for from festival, for example. well, it's not just in katha that fans will be able to enjoy the tournament. special fans owns are being set up for displaced people and refugees, and places such as palestine. jordan, in yemen. the polymer could tar, has always stressed that sport is an effective tool for bringing people together and promoting peace dialogue and reconciliation are keenness to establish fans zones comes from our firm belief in the ability of sport to bring about positive social change and stimulating sustainable development. especially by encouraging tolerance, respect and empowering communities. ah, this is al jazeera and these are the headlines. former war crimes prosecutor jack smith has been appointed as special counsel to lead investigations and to former

u. s. president. donald trump includes his handling of classified documents. trump says he won't cooperate. hydro castor has more from washington dc. who is jack smith, was he currently up until this announcement worked as a war crime prosecutor at the international criminal court at the hag. so now he is d c bound, where he has about 3 decades of experience working in the u. s. capital he led, the department of justice says public integrity section in the tooth, 20 ten's, winning high profile. convictions of corrupt politicians who were republican and democrat. now the 1st train to new deliberation of her son has left ukraine's capital. restoring the crucial railings between the 2 cities. the journey is being called the trains of victory and what arrive in the regional capital on saturday work is have repair damage, tracks and carriages,

which were vandalized by russian forces. meanwhile, keys is preparing for rolling blackouts. this winter has russia continues to target ukraine's energy facilities. the prime minister says almost half of its energy system has been disabled. pulls of opened and malicious general election. as you can see, voters are tracing from 945 candidates with the poll set to be the tightest since independence. in 1957 for coalitions are seeking to win the 222 parliamentary seats and stay. an aeroplane has caught fire off the hitting a fire truck on the runway approve lima international airport to fire fighters were killed when the last time. airlines plane crashed into the moving truck. no passengers or crew on board the plane were injured and operations at the airport has been temporarily suspended. can use former president and were wonderfully, they have agreed on the need for fighters to withdraw from captured territory and eastern democratic republic of congo. who can you also visit the d. c?

earlier this week, as facilitator of the east african community lead, talk to us about the lawn mosque has summoned the company software engineers, the face to face meetings and follows reports that hundreds of staff have quit, and the offices have been closed until monday. while those are the headlines, i'll have more news for you here on algebra after inside story. do you stay with us? ah, guilty of murder. 2 russians and a ukrainian are convicted for their role in the downing of malaysia airlines fight m, age 17 over eastern ukraine in 2014 has justice been served and could the case set

a precedent for legal action over russia's invasion of ukraine? this is inside story. ah hello and welcome to the program. i'm fully bad people. it's been 8 years since 298 people died when malaysia airlines fight m a 17 was shot down over east and ukraine . a caught in the netherlands has now convicted 3 men of murder in absentia is sentenced to russian intelligence officers and a ukrainian separatist leader to life in prison and ordered them to pay $16000000.00 in compensation. judges found the miss on that shot down the jet was russian made came from russia and was launched by russian controlled rebels. but none of the men appeared in court and it's unclear whether they'll ever serve their

sentences. a 4th russian was acquitted because of a lack of evidence. the dutch government has summoned the russian ambassador in the netherlands after moscow said the verdict caught neglected impartiality al jazeera, fet bass, and reports from outside the court in shipple. good was good to see how i could see you. they travelled from all over the world to find answers, a g as after the life of their loved ones and a property in the sky over ukraine. more than 10 different nationalities were on board malaysian airlines flight and made 17196 of the 290. 8 victims were dutch. the plane departed from sipple to kuala lumpur when it was down over a war zone in eastern ukraine. the bodies of those on board and they brief from the plane, fell in a field near the village of cub bowwie. the court ruled that there was no doubt that the plain was shut down with an anti aircraft book misdialed brought in from russia and fired from a field controlled by pro russian separatist to form

a russian intelligence officers. and one ukrainian separatist commander are held responsible for transporting the missile. and when calling to see it, the buffet's butler, the fate, the court considered proven that the suspects conduct bye to purposefully and illegally bring down a plane, knowing to cause a mortal danger. anton called lost his eldest son, daughter in law and 6 year old grandson amaco, traveling to bali for vacation coast backpack was all that came home intact. for us is very important to show the world to show that the russians she was she had done yes. taken the life of a 6 year old child and know we are atheist soda or and all that her as myself. good afternoon miss. all this is in the past 2 and a half years quarter attended more than 65 court hearings, fulfilling

a promise he made to his dad son, to find the truth, said judge thrust. how immense the suffering of the relative here has been for the past 8 years, with the bodies of their loved ones scattered in a field and is still ukraine some for weeks. but even though those conflicted have not attended the trial, they feel that justice has been done. there was water in my eyes, woocommerce, rose is and believe, will la experts say the verdict was groundbreaking, because for the 1st time, a court ruled that russia controlled armed and finance the separatists rebels of the don. yet people's republic and eastern ukraine. russia has always denied any involvement to russian foreign ministry has called the verdict scandalous, saying that throughout the trial, the court was under unprecedented pressure to impose a politically motivated outcome. prosecutors and a 3 convicted men have 2 weeks to decide to appeal. the verdict steadfast and

else's era schiphol. ah, that's now bringing our guests for today's inside story in harrison in the netherlands, thomas shannon thomas lost his son quinn in the mh 17 attack in amsterdam. marie cur. the horn assistant professor of international criminal law at the university of amsterdam and in oxford, samuel romani, and associate fellow at the royal united services institute. welcome to your thank you very much for joining us on inside. sorry, thomas. let me start with you. if i can, your son quin died in the mh 17 disaster. i know this has been a very difficult time for your family. tell us 1st about how you felt when that verdict was read out in court. do you feel just this has been done? does this bring you any closure i have difficulties in talking about and the closure. this will never be close. but the truth is that

yesterday was important to all of us was important to me. to finally hear a church, an independent church, well respected internationally, that would say what happened, who is responsible and who should be convicted? so yes, it was a great day to finally hear what we know already in the past years. since we have received that information from different press channels already, you followed the, the tile, thomas from the very beginning. what was it like for your, for your family and the, the other victim sammy's who were there with you. i did go twice to the board. i live in new york for 5 years time was unable to when i was in the mountains, i did it or i tried to attend the hearings on

a live stream. the most difficult part was when the next of kin were allowed to tell their story in front of the board and to tell what happened to them, how they were spending their lives in being losing jobs. it was rather really painful people that you have come to over the past years since she did, you met them in different settings presentations, so they call you or your family, your friends friends that you never wanted to have by the way we know them therefore it was a great gathering yesterday as well. but these past 2 years were difficult. it was difficult to hear the defense lions. again, it was difficult to read all the time. those lies from the russian government. and

this decision yesterday hopefully will bring all these lies that were in the air all the time. that was the most painful for me. marie, could hon in amsterdam, you also followed this trial from the very beginning this case. and you were in court when the verdict was read, what was your initial reaction and do you feel that justice has been served? well it, it was a very long, complex case and also leading to a complex outcome. i think they made a really great judgment. and on the question of where the justice is done, justice is so complex. so if you think just as only in terms of some sort of a perfect justice when there's only justice, if the suspects are now perpetrators are in prison, then there won't be justice. but what i think the next of kin also show us so very well is that just as is so much more complex,

there's so many more dimensions. and there is truth selling there is accountability not only by the way for the next of kin, but also for ukraine, that from 2014 has been saying to the world that russia was involved in the dumbass . and this court also acknowledged that and hopefully it's also form of justice. this a court ruling can also contribute to the future generations in trying to settle on a common, historical and accurate historical account of, of what actually happened back then in 2014. at a samuel romani and oxford your, your reaction more than 10 different nationalities were on board m h 17. was this verdict, a balance one and what do you think it achieves? why the verbiage is all certainly a balanced line. we actually look at the details of this case is important to keep in mind that davinsky, one of the suspects and car jenko the others as fact dad actually communicated with each other on the day of the attack, saying that i missed i had struck

a b cranium dead, jacqueline, this was kind of a or foreign jet that was coming forward and this was in the military success. and then the russians backtracked it with the farmers of burrows, of all said, like they typically do. they keys ukrainian says even tried to assassinate vladimir putin, they claimed as ukrainian book missile, and that they've been promoting disinformation conspiracies about this ray ears. so this was a returned to the truth. i think that the verdict was jest, and there's a practical implications. however, it's very, very unfortunate to see as the suspects are not going to face punishment eager, chicago, and who after years of promoting falsehoods and claiming that the corpses were perhaps not fresh. or that the grady is that it emitted in 2020. and there was some degree of more responsibility because he was the commander of the genius forces. but he lives in russia and his allegedly on the front lines, new crane with a $100000.00 battery, lesbians, a, b o w. he's not going to be punished at the other shoe. it's the same bank. so if the victory for truth, but it's very sad that the ultimate perpetrators of this are not going to be held

accountable for their cramps. thomas, what further action would you like to see taken? because samuel said, it's highly unlikely that the suspects will be extradited and also highly unlikely that the russian government will take responsibility. well, i believe that we will have to wait for both and his government to step down or being all the throng, whatever the case that the next president of russia will be. awfully willing to acknowledge their involvement and make the excuses to the families involved. so that is what i'm looking for, and this verdict at least now shows who has been responsible for supplying the book miss. now, and these 4 person that were on trial. now we know that there are many more that your young trial higher the rank lower ring. i am personally not looking

for one of them to do to be in jail. i would like to see that the russian government is now 1st stopping all their lives and acknowledge their responsibility. and we will wait for that. we will, i will put pressure on it. i will ask my government and the international governments to pressure on russia to do that. marie could talk to us about the evidence. the court had to, to way understand that word was different evidence from different sources. we know, of course, that moscow has long maintained that it had no party to the conflict that unfolded in dawn, back in 2014, that have not did not control the pro ration fighters into net at this trial during this trial and with the evidence was the clarity, proven as to who was to blame and whether russia had direct responsibility.

yes, the court was extremely clear on this and repeated over and over how strong the evidence was of russia's involvement, and that that book came from russia. and so to court really set clearly, there is no doubt that this has happened. and also there's absolutely completely incredible to think of a scenario that ukraine would have been involved if only for the impossibility of fabricating all that evidence. then, within no time, and the court has gone through every element of all the evidence, and that's a lot of that, and that's very high, slee here. and so then they said that they didn't find any manipulation at all. so they did use lapses, recorded telephone conversations by the s b u, but they then, of course, had them research forensically analyzed for tampering with they use a lot of information from usage like from people's standing by seeing the book come

by making pictures and videos and posting them on social media, open source investigators that connected all of that social media post and other information. it was corroborated with telephone moss. so the phones that the recorded conversations were also radiated to telephone mass. it was connected also with satellite information, weather reports looking at for instance, the shades that you can see on the pictures and whether that was correct with the time of day and the sunshine and the type of weather it was and, and so there were so many different types of evidence, also witness statements, but not many, not very many of them that the court said there is just so much evidence. it is very clear. it's absolutely impossible that any of the alternative scenarios could have happened. it was russia, not ukraine, of samuel russia, dismissed, has dismissed this verdict as politically motivated. does the case make the responsibility of the credit in clear and your view either the case, there's a,

there's one. so the criminal, clear because it's undeniable that the person separate us and danny asked were proxies and puppets of the kremlin right. ego gurkin arrived over there and the men did deb no revolution, nor an insurgency of the radiance had to fight against after the annexation of crimea. and it was part of a direct russian effort to stabilize each new crime and the rest of the country more broadly. so these actors were clearly part of russia strategic plan. and russia gave of firm directions for them on, on military activities. and that's why that's why i think that ultimately russia is to blame contextually along with the evidence that was just mentioned. ok, let me come back to you thomas. now because some victims, families have suggested that russia's full scale invasion of ukraine. this here may have been, may, could, could have been averted if the international community had pushed back harder against moscow in the years after the mh 17 disaster. do you share that view?

what do you think the international community could have done then? yeah, you know, if i do share the feeling certainly through this whole war that we see today, start at 8 years ago and 17 was the one of the big 1st casualties. i'm mr. green. our international leaders from the united states, from farm and europe, have not been able to draw the line for foods and has accepted that he would go further and further further. and even today, i must say, i am i surprised to see what it allows to do in your brain, how many people he is allowed to kill. but that is, that is

a very, very difficult political decision on how much we want to be involved. and do we want to have a world war? yes or no? i must say that the united nations in this regard has not shown any strength to avoid this kind of a serious problems in the world. and i'm, and i'm really asking myself, what is needed? how is it possible that russia today is getting in so out of all kinds of international platforms to avoid any responsibilities? this is not the kind of world or the order that we are looking for says will world war 2 nations. and it's not happening. yeah, i agree. and tammy did, did you think the, the west turned a blind eye in 2014. do you think the situation that we find ourselves in today in

ukraine could have been avoided? had some type of action been taken after the bounding of flight, emmy, 17. well, that was all related to each other. in his identified m a 17, which is one of the major crimes that was committed with the other was of course the anesthesia of crimea, which was diverse, violation of international law. and the sovereignty were european states since the end of the 2nd world war, and the remainder was the entire war, and don bass is directly backed by russian troops until the immense agreement in the russian troops and advisers who assisted the denied eleanor militias did not leave so there may, 17 is going to be viewed into the broader context of russian russian against ukraine during that time period, which is in part aimed at over throwing and d, legitimizing a democratically elected government of foreign jenko that took for power through a popular revolution of your, my dad, so in that context, i think that the west is a lot to blame for, not taking stronger action, clearly signing your stream to expanding gas dependency and rich in russia. there's followed instead of imposing more stringent sanctions,

like some of the sort of sanctions that been imposed now was a major strategic and death. moral mistake in this context. and the fact that there was not any kind of clarity or any kind of verdict on the semi 17 case until now. and there hasn't been that have pressure on it, has led to russia using some of the same narratives and fall, says justify is walk rhymes new grain today. i in boucher for example, it went from a gosh operation to claim the corpses were stage with the creditors train operation so many others. so 8th is a lot to blame from the west. in this point of view america, the i c. c has already launched an investigation into whether war crimes have been committed in ukraine and set up a team to gather evidence about this. how does this mh 17 case set legal precedent on russia's invasion of ukraine? well, 1st of all, it makes it really clear that russia is, has been involved, has been lying. the court also yesterday was very clear and beat the multiple times

. marcia has actually fabricated evidence. and in addition to the international criminal court, we also see cases against russia as a state of european court of human rights and in the national court of justice. that also will involve revolt about the question of the involvement of russia. it has many types of responsibility that's important here. and in terms of criminal accountability, it overlays on evidence and what we see also in the last 10 years or so, the huge revolution in the types of evidence that are being collected and this case as well as some other cases, you see the digital evidence, social media user meet user generated information is being used in entering that a courtroom. and this court yesterday confirmed that indeed, even though sometimes you know, that might not be perfect in terms of chain of custody or other types. you can test the reliability sufficiently that it can be used, especially corroborated what other types of evidence that it can be upheld and that also for crimes committed an ongoing on a conflict where it's difficult to,

to get to the crime scene by formal investigators that this type of evidence is admissible and very usable. ringback in improving them, but, but isn't it difficult though with that type of evidence to establish the chain of command in, in cases like this, it could be. but for instance, what's very interesting in this a case is you saw all sorts of usage. it all sorts of social media open source research into the factual relations between all these individuals connected with record a telephone conversations. and when we think of the ukraine conflict and in the crime sort of being committed an accountability for them in the future. he has the u. s. shown that also for these individuals, but also telephone conversations with bullet di and student gove and others. it has a lots of record, a telephone conversations of people already used in this and which 17 trav. so i think there's going to be a lot to come for future prosecutions. all right, thomas,

your thoughts about this? how significant is this verdict for other cases being brought against russia? and are you hopeful i know as a, as a know so victims, family member that the chain of command can be established and perhaps that those at the top can be held responsible. well, this is really very important for us that we know that the prosecutor here in amendments will announce early next year. i know that's against other persons in the chain of command. i know from what i've seen from a guest that has been very helpful in this cult ring names basis and they have shown the picture. all those people that are responsible, higher in the change. so i do think that this journey is going to be very helpful

to get to these other people that are really responsible. and we'll see these as i said by our prosecutor early next year moving forward. all right, samuel, your thoughts do you think generals and other leaders, russian generals, and other leaders, could be prosecuted, could president put in be prosecuted one day over the war and ukraine and other crimes committed and how difficult will it be? you think in court, whether an international court or a special court that's set up to, to judge these crimes, to establish a chain of command. so i really after this war started at the i c. c established proceedings that would be able to deal with that. of course, russia is not a part of g i. c c, because it withdrew a trade some, a procedural obligations. and deb, but many european countries that the americans, nato countries have been working with ukraine on collecting biometric evidence, collecting a documentary, evidence of what russian work, grimes. so these tribunals can one day be held. ukraine is also initiated

proceedings against lower level russian military personnel and into resulting the state of convictions for cramps. but obviously, the big problem is that russia has got a categorical opposition to extracting its own citizens about a man who made that very clear. for example, when the buller investigation came out and there was discussions about actually jerry officers involved, rush interference or have any per goshen who was on the at the i was one of us and who was absolutely no, we don't extradite. so unless his political change inside russia, i don't think that it's going to be very likely that these out perpetrators are going to be brought to justice in person. but certainly a chain of command can be established in other figures like ser cove who are so heavily involved in shaping ukraine palsy at that time can be prosecuted by gurkin car jenko and the suspects that we seen. i yesterday. thank you so much. thank you for a very interesting and insightful discussion. thomas johnson marie could hone and samuel romani, thank you to all 3 of you for joining us today on inside story. and thank you for

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