hello, massey out, but i left mess. he's got a, a story to roy. this woke up yet r e e. that was a fire in his eyes tonight. yeah. there was and you saw you were you talk about it so far they had maybe 10 years ago. or can we get a move away from a, from that group and i moved it to groups e at f. that also decided on thursday with their fargo rounds of matches. it's a $1500.00 gmc kick off morocco. as i looked to qualify against canada alto matter stadium. at the same time, co aisha meet belgium at amada, been elise stadium. and that's followed by a 1900 jam t kickoff of spain take on japan. that says khalifa stayed him with germany. play costa rica at our bytes side. plenty to look forward to untie 12 all cats. all 2022 . okay. we'll have it all covered. right. here on out, is it a now the fleetwood mac singer songwriter christine mckee has died at the age of $79.00.

0, good movie sang lead vocals on hits, including everywhere. don't stop and some bird stars family announced her death on social media, saying she passed away peacefully and hospital following a short illness. the band has remembered her as one of a kind and talented beyond measure. ah, type of creature of the headlines here now to 0 democrats in the us house of representatives of chosen hakim jeffries. as the new party leader, the congressman from new york will succeed nancy closing january. jeffries is the 1st black person to lead a major party in congress. us military has confirmed that the leader of iceland has been killed in an operation carried out by the free syrian army in october. al hassan, i'll show me crazy. is the 2nd. i still need it to be killed this year. sure,

because he has more from washington dc. this actually happened in the south. this will now be the 4th leader off. i. so since i will who bucher baghdad, he was killed in october 2019 by the us, his successor was then killed in february, also by the u. s. i think was interesting now is that we have this killing in october by the free, serious. all mean, i think just the last interesting detail perhaps is it is the free syrian army who conductors right according to this operation, according to the, the u. s. at least 15 people have been killed in a bombing in northern afghanistan. it happened that a religious school and a back, a capital of some on gun province, at least 20 others a wounded interior affairs ministry says students are among the dead. friends present him on your micro has kicked off his state visit to the us with a meeting with the vice president come to harris lacrosse set to meet president biden on thursday night to discuss sending more air defense systems to ukraine as

foreign ministers met in romania for a 2nd day of talks, the alliance pledged its unwavering support to some of russia's neighbors, which fear being destabilized by moscow. an independent panel in south africa has found the president's civil reports have violated his oath of office, which could lead to his eventual impeachment. the panel was set up after millions of dollars in cash was found in a sofa at his private farm. so those are the headlines. the news continues here now to 0 after in fact story. thank you for watching. i fell. ah, it's a financial scandal that crashed mozambique economy. a court has now begun to deliver

its verdict against 19 former officials who are accused of crimes that include money laundering and bribery. so how will a nation move on? can it move all this is inside story. ah hello, welcome to the program. i'm adrian finnegan. it's become known as the hidden debt scandal. that is one of the biggest corruption cases on the african continent. the century, a court in mozambique has begun to deliver its verdict, which is expected to take 5 days in the trial of 19 people who are accused of a wide range of financial crimes in connection with the 2 $1000000000.00 scheme. the defendants are mostly former senior government officials, including the song of an ex president. we're bringing our guests in just

a moment. the 1st, let's take a closer look. at this case, the accusations relate to a number of deals made in 201320143 state owned farms borrowed more than 2000000000 dollars, arranged mostly in secret, with the help of the investment banks, credit suisse and beat he b. they said it was to help build a new fishing fleet, but instead it was spent on military gum ships, while hundreds of millions of dollars were reportedly paid in kickbacks. those accused of benefiting include senior politicians and a few source in mozambique and european bankers. when the scandal emerged in 2016, the i m f and world bank suspended, funding to mozambique that triggered a sovereign debt. the fault and the currency, the medic. how collapsed the economic fall out as pushed, an estimated 1900000 people in mozambique into poverty. ah, so let's bring an,

i guess for today's discussion, they're all joining us from mozambique from the potto of a joint by at least number 80, who is the founder and executive director of an organization to social change in mozambique, cold and wet he from that matter myo in mozambique. fernando lima is the founder of media cooper. the 1st independent bows and b can media group and an investigative journalist. and again, from a poto borges, let me take a researcher at the anti corruption nonprofit watchdog public integrity center, a warm welcome t will. denise will start with a deceptively simple question. are on a discussion around an incredibly complex topic here of a feeling that wherever we start this discussion, it will be the wrong place to solve. we've got to start somewhere. how did this scandal come to light? and the scandal come to light in 2000 came to light in 2016 when the wall street

journal. i decided to publish a story on the, on the frauds 3 recently created companies for, from us and big contract at $2400000000.00 that to be at credit suisse, who are wrenched with investors in the us. and as far as we know, the investors in the us and started a car, but they, they denounce the their fraud to the department of justice, you at the bottom of justice who started investigation. and part of that during that investigation wall street journal had access to information and they basically disclosed all the fruit before that no one knew anything about it. it had been kept secret. and in fact, we knew as the budget monitoring foreign we knew about damage to learn. we knew about the $850000000.00 loan because it was

a included in the budget in the state budget. and at the time we were analyzing the state budget and we questioned the minister of finance and the budget committee from the parliament about that amount in the budget. at the time it was said was that it was meant for fishing, fishing boats, and for the fans. and the money was split into portions for fishing, boat and fence. so we knew about one of the loans, but not about the the other 2 loans. the mom and the police because loan and nobody smelled a rat as a right? no. yes, you're right. ok. fernando ah, there are 19 defendants in this trial who's in the dock of the right people been charged and will civil society, mozambique get the accountability, the justice, the reserves hello it's him so eventually not everybody will, will be on trial or will be sentenced but yes

a number of significant people involved. india is so crow, years based chat at at this child does, involves people related to former president at the top people at our security. and they all are the people that were cooperating. we does cath related to debt monies that were brought from credit suisse and bt bt be ban russian russia back. so to what extent will a verdict mean that but, but some people who are involved in this scandal get away with it and will that be enough to satisfy civil society there in mozambique? well, according to what civil society already expressed and made public, not at all because the position of civil society organizations

related to the state that should be reimbursed or old. all the damage that have been caused them wasn't because state. and so at this point, what they have been recovered from those lungs are related to what does people have but with the money's they got from, from the lebanese a company based enough would be. so this is just about 10 percent of the all the money you both we choose to point to bill in your us dollars. so a minimum amount of the those moneys in boby scandal have been recovered or are they should be to be to be recovered? not de large, a bunch of fall off the money, but at the same time,

there is an action now being yet being placed in london. and eventually the state could also recovered money related to debt from raven best, which is the company involved in a product. and also from the banks involved in the fraud, which are again, credit suisse and b, b, b, or his. as i said at the beginning of the program, the court has begun to deliver its verdict. how fair was the trial? can we be confident that justice will be served in this case? is there any reason to doubt the independence of the court? i think it is independent enough. so easy brought before the court that people will are very important them be. and i understand that some people are questioning howard the court depending. it's quite all about that

as a system in them. but for this case, we get this done for my president as being the pride also the for my head of the service being, try it in the ada at the top of the government. so the court and the issue have been open and to discuss that interest and good judging, decided to broadcast live with the file so that everyone can watch it. facebook page from a little read you a tv. but this is not the, not quite the pipper will i big. it's why i'm not the top lead that. i'm not the why would decided to contracted that, but the, from a president boozer was linda condra. when did that has been constructed. he has not been right and never, not even in that and also the current president, could it be?

no, it was the meaning of a different and had a lot do with that also has not been brought to before the court. so why, and i believe this is the independent and then the important trial a, some important bush. we said at the beginning of the program the, this loan deal was kept hidden from parliament. why were the justice system and parliament unable to oversee the actions of the executive in the 1st place that in most m b was when this original loan was, was taken out. why did most and beaks checks and balances fail it simply because it is and put it into the gym where it is. it could get power a perio and sometimes the control was done. it's simply like that because president at that time will tell

dad is the ruling party member the problem and ignore it to happen at the indeed in 2014, when the parliament decided to like a lie which is 11. so it did in did the region, the re, jim is up to our control, the added to base your to pick up on, on, on that point for me. why this original loan deal was kept hidden from parliament. why wasn't the i m f notified about it? i mean, doesn't this in itself proved criminal intent? yes, it does prove kimmy. no, he turned in a think. i'm at the fact that for my minister finance minister, a still arrested in johannesburg. a waiting for the decision of the courts about his, his tradition to more than big i that was a big or to denied states. he actually, it's a clear indication of cleaner intent. and i think that has budget

a saying the fact that we have an or to returned regime, which actually makes the parliament the majority of the parliament is made of the ruling party, which doesn't allow any independence and neutrality and neutrality in the rulings of the parliament so it gives all their opportunities for a legal dad to be contracted yet in mozambique, not only these that but we still see data being contracted in mozambique without the approval of the parliament that still happening and are fortunately a system and not yet in place to prevent to provide full transparency for media and for civil society to scrutinize on, on the dads that are contracted public, that spaces specifically that are contracted by the government. so if what he's saying is far from throwing things wide open, the scandal has actually had the opposite effect in the it's reduced democratic activity. the in missouri biggest has become more authoritarian as it tries to

cover up attractions. yes, it does. it does. and we feel that as somehow we feel that donor supporting more than we can now, going back to the state budget, they're going back to supporting a, the government of mozambique with funding without some minimal conditions of transparency and accountability being introduced in our financial, public financial system which means that we will continue to contract that legally for under um, who benefited from this this $2000000000.00 loan, which was meant to be for more of a fishing fleet except for bribes. very little of that money actually went to mozambique to yet that, that dead. so just because all the materials that were supposed to arrive in was a b and to be being used. for example, why there are but forces by security forces day are damaged,

not working. does surveillance systems are not, are not working so, ah, and according to an audit that has been done on materials provided was a because state, it seems that it was part of the scam not to provide proper equipment to mozambique. so most of beek was deceptive on, on net, on different grounds, not only did not receive the proper equipment that have been promised to the country. ah, the prices were as kendall, as of so all but periods and equipments were overpriced. a lot of people benefits from the scan in terms of rights when i'm saying a lot of people, people outside of the government, including swiss bank officials that have been met right

by the invest the lead but is company and are the people that we as borges said before, we don't know to what extent de benefit from the is this can name the people redeem the for illegal party, which is the real big party and the government was a big so we do not know yet what extent were either beneficiaries and there were other damages that have been committed against them was a began states given that for and picking up on something that you were talking about a few minutes ago. what hope then is there of those, i'm big recovering any of this, this stolen money, which in many cases already been converted into other assets like property a yes. was a big is big, better active,

to recover those my knees. but as i emphasize before, this is a little portion of that, and i o dad to the most i began stage with beer, do show the collections in the cart of the court of london. they will manage to extract from bad credit suisse. and from there, from breathing best, the company that provides all the materials, some additional money is related. we'll give that discount. so this trial that we are talk about ear is just a small portion of the candle. and of course, in london, we have also a situation in which most a victim was a bigger state model, trying to not pay back the credits and the loans day. god rob the to back simple in the scout pushes what,

what damage has this done to most on beaks, international standing and reputation? a lot. i think it was, i mean, we'll never cover at all the damage. the damage to it is something that will pick a generic action cause it might be seen differently. so by talking about the anomaly, which is better high where we did but a couple of years ago concluded that up to 29 in 11 b. and if the was the number of them, is it more than b and gotten from the step. but despite their number, demi then add them up again, which as denise, they, it has done a lot to government tried to do action and by

dining pretty have done to sit, been a figure of speech after enough bread. and so all this kind of damage has been creat, did already related to also look to, to grow by the end of democrats, as we've done and human rights that has been discovered. we just did that muslim b is folly, and this polling a lot. and the report that this with at that is the m, i kind of jog, isn't it said in tv? look, when i go to add to do. but this is what i am as look rather than the kid didn't do that to me at my service. when i meet someone, what to do about it? i would talk to the muslim be not that. how is that guys more than because how is the muslim be? so this is something that will never will never cover. maybe in the next 50. denise,

as the founder and executive director of an organization that with campaigns for social change in mozambique. a want to ask about what impact this is had on, on ordinary people there when the scandal 1st came in to light the currency half in value against the us dollar. as we said, the m f with drew its port. how's that impacted the economy, the financial health of its people? what impact as it had on public spending lot. it has been tremendous immediately after the disclosure of the of the of the loan says he said that donors withdrew from the state budget and that led her mozambique the government to implement austerity measures and cuts were made to the. busy us health, education, water sanitation sectors and that had that the right impact in how people access

medication. you know, how they access medicine, how they access health services. or we have seen that been health network and a health education network. hell has become stagnant since the discovery of this disclosure of the loans and, and, and above all, i think the impact has been in the pocket of the citizens. the economic impact has been tremendous because, and we have seen from the, from the sense to govern. so 17, that investors i thinking twice before, investing in mozambique. that means it affects the fiscal space of the country for development, for investment. so at ad there wasn't a concern there had there being penalized twice, one ah, one for you know, having, having to leave day that by day with the impact of the legal depths and twice by

you know, having to pay for their and so they much loan which is being paid every 3 months. and in addition to that, the economy is stagnant, they call many got to me, he's not growing. that means it has a tremendous impact in the seats and ok for us to, to 1000000 people. additional people pushed into to, to poverty that has to lease was saying that loan to lease we paid it hasn't gone away. is it going to be forced to continue servicing that debt, plus additional costs and we want for the damage. is that going to cause to actually get married? it's a, it's a betty betty difficult. so now you add that's why i've seen the government to decide that the strategy who also raising

doubts about pay back debt to debt debt effect. unfortunately, the government is already paying the money is involved in, but am i to devote devote companies so that the tuna fishing company is not working? never worked bunch because they are private. the best as bailey investors in united states is born in those bonds of fall of the to the fishing company, most of began business. so finance is paying back yet, but the low what is not being paid up to now is the loan for the company that was providing all the equipment for security purposes. and another company that was involved in that directly,

assuming the maintenance of all these security is security equipment. so yes, these loans are still pending on the most because people on the golf, but it was a big but i hope that will never pay part of that. low for her cook, something like this happened again in mozambique is it, is it happening again and what about elsewhere in africa, other enough checks balances and transparency in the system to prevent something like this happening again and puts not did did is yet to do something might happen again and then be, and this sounds going to may be, is happening maybe a couple of years when the government of president needed the power we did that said it's small and he didn't add because that problem it not been within the trial which is the trial and then the final decision was going to take,

but also we said that people on practice did that. they are proud of that. one. is that through the, from a prison to get with that and say, then he keeps saying, i couldn't do that game because i did need to for my country, but people, they feel they have done that. right. and why does william keep going to power? and why did it continue? i did something a bit to make that happen again. but your question to the point in it, i think it will go to come to kind of see a did that company that approach that i'm a government to try to give them but they have it. so we everything down there from, i mean to start off by now in that did or at that time as to what questions about what was how big lloyd, how, how okay, bed it could be to have contacted a different country. ok. the,

i'm afraid we must end the discussion. thank you all for being with us today on inside story and as always, thank you for watching. don't forget you can see the program again any time by visiting our website at 0 dot com so. so the discussion join us on our facebook page, you'll find that at facebook dot com forward slash ha inside story. and you can join the store, the conversational twitter handle at a j inside story from me, adrian setting up the whole team here. and thanks for watching to see you again by the ah,

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