was a bit limited that we're happy that they could actually stand on the boat. so that was cool and the stories is such a beautiful story. you know, it's a story about east and west. they start their journeys on opposite sides of the water theater. and then they go through calm flags and war, and then they come to the middle in this section called the prayer, representing unity and humanity. now you have promised middle dance performs very quickly beforehand. you do also run a studio here. providence studio. many of your students are out performing a message to them. yes. and just to extremely proud of them were so happy, you know, they've been part of a lot of the music videos for the world cub. they're performing at the fan festival . and i'm just incredibly proud. okay, we're just about to rot. but can you show us some of the dreamers choreography? ha ha ha,

now these dantes have become a little bit of a bar all don't sensation. so i wonder if you back in the studio can be a little bit of a ah, this is al serra, these are your top stories. construction of a multi $1000000.00 pause in india, southern states of carola, has become the focus of protests. a christian fishing community has been leading demonstrations against the project. but hindu group close to the governing parties, holding counter rallies in support of it. of natal has more many of the protesters and fishing community members all from the christian community. they have the support of the local church. now the judge has condemned. the violence has also offered investigation. the government has just said cases against 23 and other to

read us. now in terms of support, as there is local support, hinder groups have also supported the construction off the board. they have taken out marches, a politically speaking, that is support for the board. interestingly, the board has brought together political parties from 2 ends of the ideological spectrum. so you have ingest communist, spotty, which is in power in the state, and the prime minister in the reigns remove these right wing passage and the party francis president has matches us counterpart for an informal then in washington dc . as he kicked off his 3 day american state visits, he criticized biden's inflation reduction act, describing it as super aggressive to west european companies. and these to policy means have been killed during an israeli right in the occupied west bank. several of the people winded in the violence in jeanine palestinian factions have been cooling for general strike in response. an independent panel in south africa is

found that the president, the sterile rum oppose that violated his office. the panel was set off and millions of dollars in cash was found in a sofa at his private farm. the president has denied any wrong during rescue teams in brazil have been looking for missing people off the landslide in the southern region. 2 bodies have been found so far, and 6, a volume is located on the highway was washed away in the state of herana. those headlines needs continues in now to 0 inside story. as we move into the 3rd round of the greek stage, some thieves can breathe easy, knowing their place in no county already secured the others they know their journey coming to an end. for many, it's time to dig deep and focus as they still plenty. the playful cattle with sarah it's a financial scandal that crashed mozambique economy. a court has now begun to

deliver its verdict against mine, teen former officials, who are accused of crimes that include money laundering and bribery. so how will a nation move on? can it move? this is inside story. ah, ah, hello, welcome to the program. i'm adrian finnegan. it's become known as the hidden debt scandal. that is one of the biggest corruption cases on the african continent. the century, a court in mozambique has begun to deliver its verdict, which is expected to take 5 days in the trial of 19 people who are accused of a wide range of financial crimes in connection with the 2 $1000000000.00 scheme. the defendants are mostly former senior government officials, including the song of an ex president. we're bringing our guests in just a moment,

but 1st, let's take a closer look. at this case, the accusations relate to a number of deals made in 201320143 state owned firms, borrowed more than 2000000000 dollars, arranged mostly in secret, with the help of the investment banks, credit suisse, and beaty b. they said it was to help build a new fishing fleet, but instead it was spent on military gun ships, while hundreds of millions of dollars were reportedly paid in kickbacks. those accused of benefiting include senior politicians and official in mozambique and european bankers. when the scandal emerged in 2016, the i m f and world bank suspended, funding to mozambique that triggered a sovereign debt, the fault and the currency, the medic. how collapsed the economic fallout has pushed an estimated 1900000 people in mozambique into poverty. ah,

so let's bring in our guess for today's discussion, they're all joining us from mozambique, from poto of a joint by at least number 80, who is the founder and executive director of an organization to social change in mozambique cold and wet he from that matter. myo in mozambique for not a lima is the founder of media coop. the 1st independent bows and b can media group and an investigative journalist. and again from a poto borges, let me day a researcher at the anti corruption nonprofit watchdog public integrity center. a warm welcome t will. denise will start with a deceptively simple question. are on a discussion around an incredibly complex topic here of a feeling that wherever we start this discussion, it will be the wrong place to solve. we've got to start somewhere. how did this scandal come to light and the scandal come to light in 2000 came to light in 2016 when the wall street journal. i decided to

publish a story on the, on the frauds 3 recently created companies for, from us and big contract at $2400000000.00 that to be at credit suisse, who are wrenched with investors in the us. and as far as we know, the investors in the us and started a car, but they, they denounce the their fraud to the pattern of justice, u. s. department of justice who started investigation. and part of that during that investigation wall street journal had access to information and they basically disclosed all the fruit before that no one knew anything about it. it had been kept secret. and in fact, we knew as the budget monitoring foreign, we knew about de mer to learn. we knew about the $850000000.00 loan because it

was a include that in the budget in the state budget. and at the time we were analyzing the state budget and we questioned the minister of finance and the budget committee for the parliament about that amount in the budget. at the time it was said was that it was meant for fishing, fishing boats, and for the fence. and the money was split into portions for fishing, boat and fence. so we knew about one of the loans, but not about the the other 2 loans. the mom and the police because loan and nobody smelled a rat as a right? no. yes, you're right. ok. fernando ah, there are 19 defendants in this trial who's in the dog of the right people been charged and will civil society, mozambique get the accountability, the justice, the reserves hello it's him so eventually not everybody will, will be on trial or will be sentenced but yes

a number of significant people involved and is so crowded is based chat at, at this trial and using robes. people related to former president at the top people at our security team. and they all are the people that were cooperating. we does camp related to the monies that were brought from credit suisse and bt be ban russian russia back. so to what extent will a verdict mean that but, but some people who are involved in this scandal get away with it and will that be enough to satisfy civil society there in mozambique? well, according to what civil society already express been made, public, not at all because the position of civil society organizations

related to the state that should be reimbursed or all the all the damage that have been caused them wasn't because state. and so at this point where they have been recovered from, those lungs are related. so what does people have bought me? the money's they got from, from gives the lebanese a company based enough would be. so this is just the about 10 percent of the all the money both we choose to point to bill in your us dollars. so a minimum amount of the dose money's in boby scandal have been recovered or are they should be to be to be recovered? not de large, a bunch of fall off the money, but at the same time,

there is an action now being yet being placed in london. and eventually does state could also recovered money related to debt from raven best, which is the company involved in a product and also from the banks involved in the fraud, which are, again, credit suisse and b, b, b, or his, as they start at the beginning of the program, the court has begun to deliver its verdict. how fair was the trial? can we be confident that justice will be served in this case? is there any reason to doubt the independence of the court? i think it is independent enough, so it be brought before the court that people will are very important to them be and i understand that some people are questioning how the court depending it requires a call about that as a system in somebody. but for this case,

we get this done for my president being the pride also the for my head of the service, big try it and at the top of the government. so the court and the issue have been open and to discuss that in court. and good judging, decided to broadcast live with the file so that everyone can watch it. facebook page from a little read you a tv. but this is not the, not quite the paper i big, it's why i'm not the top lead that. i'm not the why would decided to contract that . but the, from a president gib was that was linda condra. when did that has been constructed here? not been right and never, not even in that and also the current president,

will it be noisy? it was the difference and had a lot do with that also has not been brought to before the court. so while i believe i did the independence and go down the important trial, some important bush, we said at the beginning of the program that, that this loan deal was kept hidden from parliament. why were the justice system in parliament unable to oversee the actions of the executive in the 1st place? that in most m b was when this original loan was, was taken out. why did most and beaks checks and balances fail. it's simply because not going to be in the gym where it could get power a perio and sometimes the controls power. it's simply like that as president at that time will tell dad. and if

he's the ruling party members, the problem ignore it to happen at the indeed in 2014, when the parliament decided to legalize the debt, which is level. so it did in did the region, the re, jim, is our control, the added to race, to pick up on, on, on that point for me. why this original loan deal was kept hidden from parliament? why wasn't the i m f notified about it? i mean it, doesn't, this in itself proved criminal intent? yes, it does prove criminal intent. and the think of the fact that the former minister, finest minister is still arrested in johannesburg, awaiting funded seizure of the courts about his tradition to more than big either to more than equal to denied spades. leah, it's a clear indication of clean my intent and i think that i have body to saying the

fact that we have not returned regina, which actually makes the parliament the majority of the parliament is made of the ruling party, which doesn't allow any independence and neutrality and neutrality in the rulings of the parliament. so it gives older opportunities for illegal dad to be contracted yet in muslim because not only these that, but we still see that being contract that in muslim b without the approval of the parliament that still happening. and fortunately and not yet in place to prevent, to provide full transparency for media and civil society to scrutinize on, on, on the data that i contract at public. that species specifically that are contracted by the government. so what you're saying is far from throwing things wide open. this scandal has actually had the opposite effect in the it's reduced democratic activity. the most mozambique displays that become more authoritarian as

it tries to cover up its actions. yes, it does, it does. and we feel that somehow we feel that donors supporting more than we can now going back to the state by just the going back to supporting the government of more than be with funding without minimal conditions of transparency and accountability being introduced in our financial, public financial system which means that we will continue to contract bad, legally finance, who benefited from this, this $2000000000.00 loans, which was meant to be for fishing fleet except for bribes. very little of that money actually went to mozambique did it yet that, that dead. so just because all the materials that were supposed to arrive in was a b and to be being used quite example, why there are but forces by security forces they are damaged,

not working. does surveillance systems are not, are not working so ah, and according to an audit that has been done on materials provided was a because state, it seems that it was part of the scam not to provide appropriate equipment to mozambique. so most of beak was deceptive. on, on net, on different grounds, not only did not receive the proper equipment that have been promised to the country. ah, the prices were as candle as the so all, but periods and equipments were overpriced. a lot of people benefit from the scan in terms of bribes. what i'm saying, a lot of people, people outside of the government,

including swiss bank officials that have been met right by the invest the lead, but is the company and are the people that we as borges said before, we don't know to what extent they benefit from diseases can namely people redeem the for liberal party, which is the real big party. and the government was a big so we do not know yet what extent were either beneficiaries and there were other damages that have been committed against them. was a began states given that for and picking up on something that you were talking about a few minutes ago. what hope than is there of those i'm big recovering any of this, this stolen money, which in many cases already been converted into other assets like property a yes. was a big, it is big betty active to recover those my knees. but as i emphasize before,

this is a little portion of that, and i o dad to the most and begin stage with beer, should do show the collections in the car to the court of london. they will manage to extract from bad credit suisse. and from that, from breathing best, the company that provides all the materials, some additional money is related to all these that discount. so this trial that we are talk about here is just a small portion of all candle. and of course, in london, we have also a situation in which most a victim was a big state model, trying to not pay back the credits and the loans day. god rob,

to beg, simple in the scout bush is what, what damage has this done to most on beaks, international standing and reputation? a lot. i think it was, i mean, we'll never cover at all the damage. the damage to it is something that will pick a generic action cause it might be seen differently. so by talking about there and making them a better hi. where that done, which i did. but a couple of years ago concluded that at $229.00 in 11 b and the way they cannot make them is it more than be confronted? but despite their demi days then add them up again which as denise, they, it has done a lot to government tried to do and by

dining would have done up been a figure of speech after enough bread. and so all this kind of damage has been creat, did already related to also look to, to grow by the end of democrats. the at we've done human rights in that has been discovered. we just did that. the muslim b is falling in. this polling a lot and the report that this with at the end i kind of georgia tech hasn't said in tv that they look when i go to add to do. but this is what i am asked or look at rather than the kid didn't do that. to me, at my 7th day when i meet someone, what to do about it, i would talk to the muslim be not that, how is that guys more than because i was a muslim be. so this is something that will never will never cover. maybe in the

next 50, denise, as the founder and executive director of an organization that with campaigns for social change in mozambique. i want to ask about what impact this has had on, on ordinary people there when the scandal 1st came in to light the currency half in value against the us dollar. as we said, the i m f with drew it support or how's that impacted the economy, the financial health of its people? what impact as it had on public spending lot. it has been tremendous immediately after the disclosure of the of the of the loan says he said that donors withdrew from the state budget and that led her mozambique the government to implement austerity measures and cuts were made to the. busy us health, education, water sanitation sectors and that had that the right impact in how people access

medication. you know, how they access medicine, how they access health services. or we have seen that been health network and a health education network. hell has become stagnant since the discovery of this disclosure of the loans and, and, and above all, i think the impact has been in the pocket of the citizens. the economic impact has been tremendous because, and we have seen from the, from the sense to govern. so 17, that investors i thinking twice before, investing in mozambique. that means it affects the fiscal space of the country for development, for investment. so at ad there wasn't a concern there had there being penalized twice one or one for you know, having, having to leave day that by day with the impact of the legal depths and twice by

you know, having to pay for their and so they much loan which is being paid every 3 months. and in addition to that, they call me stagnant. they come any telling me he's not growing means and it has a tremendous impact in the seats and ok for us to to 1000000 people additional people pushed into to to poverty. i was to lease was saying that loan, the still lease we paid it hasn't gone away. is it going to be forced to continue servicing that debt, plus additional costs and we want for the damage. is that going to cause to actually get married? it's a, it's a betty betty difficult scenario and that's why i've seen the government to decide that the strategy who also raising

doubts about paid back debt to debt debt impact. unfortunately, the government is already paying the money is involved in emma to devote devote companies. so that the tuna fishing company is not working, never worked bunch because they are private investors. bailey, are investors in united states to borrow in those bonds of fall of their fishing company. most of began have been is still finance is paying back yet, but tickler lo, what is not being paid up to now is the loan for the company that was providing all the equipment for security purposes. and another

company that was involved being that directly, assuming the bank notes of all these security is security equipment. so yes, these loans are still pending on the most and because people on the golf, but it was a big but i hope that will never pay part of the debt low for her cook. something like this happened again in mozambique. is it? is it happening again? what about elsewhere in africa, other enough checks, balances and transparency in the system to prevent something like this happening again and puts not yet to do something might happen again and then be and sounds limited to maybe it's happening maybe in a couple of years when the government or president needed the power that said it's small because that problem has not been talked with been trial, which is the best to try out. and then the final decision was going to take,

but also we did that people contracted that they are proud of that. what does that come up with that id say? then he keeps saying, i couldn't do it again because i did the to for my country, but people, they feel done that right. and it, while william keeping on power and why and it sort of continued, i did something might happen again. a question to the point in it. i think it will go to come to kind of see a didn't present that company that approach it. and i haven't gotten to try to get them but they have it. so we everything down there from, i mean, by now in that time as to what questions about what did was how big lloyd, how, how, okay, bed it could be to have conquered

a different country. ok. the, i'm afraid we must end the discussion. thank you all for being with us today on inside story. and as always, thank you for watching. don't forget you can see the program again any time by visiting our website at 0 dot com for the discussion. join us on our facebook page . you'll find that at facebook dot com forward slash ha inside story. and you can join the store, the conversation on twitter handle at a j inside story from me, adrian for the whole team here. and thanks for watching to see you again by the me. o shot to the head and the silencing of a renown palestinian american journalist ah

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