to lose, so they're gonna play with or relaxing with no pressure by morocco. we got a lot on the table. so we're going to have to play a good defense and very technical and didn't try to cover all the, all the, all the sided. so he's feeling 10th at the moment. design is not the mood, is it is because because we have a lot of pressure on us. we haven't quantify sunset. 90. quantify to the 2nd round size 1986. so this is a history that we go about to witness. so we are ever bodies under a pressure any chance sending we were holding our. a happiness, angie, all, that game, resolve or ball. i think we have a good chance that a good feeling we're gonna wind is can they can to have a secret weapon. alphonso de these shots from the fast it had it's in the tournament. the fastest. do you have a secret weapon to morocco? all we do, we don't play. we have a plenty of weapons. we have hacky me. we have the we have them robert and been

missouri we. we have a lot of good players and indicate the playing champions league to have a good level and a good experience and we have like 6 players coming from the previous wold gob. so we have, we are, we are. 1 ahead of them. so. okay, well i wish more of a i'm canada, the best of luck. so as he said, yes, moroccans are pretty tense counted, doesn't have much to lose. and currently it's relatively common. stick walketh in. thanks, matt. laura con that for us in doha seek wacky. ah, this is al jazeera, easy it help stories. european union is edging china t's it's influence on russian to and the when ukraine in council president charles michelle is in beijing talks with president a chinese president. gigi ping to lead is our meeting at

a time f strained relations. russia's foreign minister says previous relations with the west will not be resumed. denise conference celebrate said western powers had a real chance to avoid conflict in ukraine. they rejected russian proposals to halt nato expansion bush and to show last december, washington preferred not to take advantage of a real chance at the escalations. what the chance was that the questions are shared by the u. s. and brussels chose a court aimed at comprehensively supporting the key regime and it's policy for advocating all things. russian education, media use of the russian language and culture. and everyday life in general is when years ago the french president, in my new my role is in washington for a state visits. he began his trip with a dinner with president joe biden. earlier. he criticize us subsidies as a super aggressive to as european companies construction of

a multi $1000000.00 pool in india is phase of careless become the focus of protest into being billed by the donnie corporation. which is owned by asia's, which is an independent panel in south africa. i found that the president, sarah wilma posed violated his office a panel with millions of dollars in cash found in a sofa. his private phone. the president has denied anyone doing phase or you headlines coming up next inside story. ah, it's a financial scandal that crashed mozambique economy. a court has now begun to deliver

its verdict against mine, team, former officials, who are accused of crimes that include money laundering and bribery. so how will a nation move on? can it move? this is inside story. ah, ah. hello, welcome to the program. i'm adrian finnegan. it's become known as the hidden debt scandal. that is one of the biggest corruption cases on the african continent. the century, a court in mozambique has begun to deliver its verdict, which is expected to take 5 days in the trial of 19 people who are accused of a wide range of financial crimes in connection with a 2 $1000000000.00 scheme. the defendants, a mostly former senior government officials, including the song of an ex president,

will bring in our guests in just a moment. but 1st, let's take a closer look. at this case, the accusations relate to a number of deals made in 201320143 state owned farms borrowed more than 2000000000 dollars, arranged mostly in secret, with the help of the investment banks, credit suisse and beat he b. they said it was to help build a new fishing fleet, but instead it was spent on military gun ships, while hundreds of millions of dollars were reportedly paid in kickbacks. those accused of benefiting include senior politicians and a fish source in mozambique and european bankers. when the scandal emerged in 2016, the i m f and world bank suspended, funding to mozambique that triggered a sovereign debt, the fault and the currency, the medic out collapsed. the economic fallout has pushed an estimated 1900000 people in mozambique into poverty. ah,

so let's bring in our guess for today's discussion, they're all joining us from mozambique from the potto of a joint bye at east number 80, who is the founder and executive director of an organization for social change in mozambique, cold and wet he from that matter myo in mozambique. fernando lima is the founder of media coot. the 1st independent bows and b can media group and an investigative journalist. and again from a poto borges, let me day a researcher at the anti corruption nonprofit watchdog public integrity center. a warm welcome t will. denise will start with a deceptively simple question. are on a discussion around an incredibly complex topic here of a feeling that wherever we start this discussion, it will be the wrong place to solve. we've got to start somewhere. how did this scandal come to light? the scandal come to light in 2000 came to light in 2016. when there was 3. jo,

no decided to publish a story on the, on the fraud 3 recently created companies from was in big contract. the $2400000000.00 that to be credit suisse, who arranged with the investors in the us. and as far as we know, the investors in the us started a they, they denounced the their frauds to the department of justice, us the bottom of justice, who started investigation and protest that during that investigation wall street journal had access to information. and they basically disclose the older fraud before no one knew anything about it. it had been kept secret. in fact, we knew the budget money during foreign. we knew about de my to learn. we knew about $850000000.00 loan because it was the included in the budget in the state

budget. and at the time we were analyzing the state budget and we question the municipal finance and budget committee from the parliament about that amount in the budget at the time it was said was that it was meant for fish ship fishing boats and for defense and money was split into portions for fishing booth in defense. so we knew about one of the loans, but not about the the other 2 loans, the man independent because and nobody smelled around. is that right now? yes. the are right. ok. fernando. there are 19 defendants in this trial who's in the dock of the right people been charged and will civil society and mozambique get the accountability, the justice that it deserves. hello, it's him. so eventually not everybody will, will be on trial or will be sentenced. but yes,

a number of significant people involved. india is so crowded years based chat at, at this trial and does, involves people related to for my president at the top people at our security team. and they all are the people that were cooperating. we does camp related to the monies that were brought from credit suisse and v t, v t b ban russian. russia back. so to what extent will averted mean that but, but some people who are involved in this scandal get away with it and will that be enough to satisfy civil society there in mozambique? well, according to what civil society already express been made, public, not at all because the position of civil society organizations is

related to the state that should be reimbursed for all the all the damage that have been caused to them wasn't because state. and so at this point, what have been recovered from those lungs are related to what does people have? he bought me, the money's they've got from, from gives the lebanese a company based enough would be. so this is just about 10 percent of the all the money you both, we choose a $2200000000.00 us dollars. so a minimum amount of the, those moneys in boby scandal have been recovered or are they should be to be to be recovered? not de large, a bunch of fall of the money, but at the same time,

there is an action now being yet being placed in london. and eventually does state could also recovered money related to debt from raven belt, which is the company involved in a fraud. and also from the banks involved in the fraud, which are up again, credit suisse, and b, b, b, or his. as i said at the beginning of the program, the court has begun to deliver its verdict. how fair was the trial? can we be confident that justice will be served in this case? is there any reason to doubt the independence of the court? i think it is independent enough brought before the court. people will very important them be and i understand that some people are questioning how the court depending call about the b as

a system in somebody put this case. we think this presidents as being deprived also for my head of the service, big try it in the, at the top of the government. so the court and the issue have been up to discuss that in just a quite good jogging decided to broadcast live with the file so that everyone can watch it. facebook page from when they read you a tv. but this is not enough to quite the people who are big. it's why i'm not the top lead. that's not good. why would decide who contracted that? but the from a president was that was the linda condra. when did that has been constructed. he has not been tried and never, not even in that and also the current president. will it be?

no, it was the difference and had a lot do with that also has not been brought before the court. so why i believe, and this is the independent and good and the important trial. some important bush. we said at the beginning of the program that this loan deal was kept hidden from parliament. why were the justice system in parliament unable to oversee the actions of the executive in the 1st place? that in most am be when this original loan was was taken out. why did most am beaks checks and balances fail? it's simply because it is in the gym where it could get power a perio and sometimes the control power did just send the problem. it's simply like that as president at that time will tell

dad is the ruling party member. the problem when it happened to indeed didn't change, did f like in a when their parliament decided to like a lie which level. so it didn't in did the region, the re, jim, is it in our control today due to pick up on, on that point for me? why this original loan deal was kept hidden from panama. why wasn't the i m f notified about it? i mean it, doesn't, this in itself proved criminal intent? yes, it that proves criminal intent. and the think of the fact that the former minister finance minister is still arrested in johannesburg. awaking funded seizure of the courts about his tradition to more than big either to more than equal to denied spades. leah, it's a clear indication of clean my intent. and i think that i have body to saying the

fact that we have not returned regina, which actually makes the parliament the majority of the parliament is made of the ruling party, which doesn't allow any independence and neutrality and neutrality in the rulings of the parliament. so it gives older opportunities for illegal dad to be contracted yet in muslim because not only these that, but we still see bad being contract that in muslim b without the approval of the parliament that still happening. and fortunately and not yet in place to prevent, to provide full transparency for media, for people society to scrutinize on, on, on the data that i contract, the public. that species specifically that are contracted by the government. so what you're saying is far from throwing things wide open, this scandal has actually had the opposite effect in the it's reduced democratic activity. the most mozambique, the stated,

become more authoritarian as it tries to cover up its actions. yes, it does, it does. and we feel that somehow we feel that donors supporting more than we can now going back to the state budget, they are going back to supporting the government of more than be with funding without with minimal conditions of transparency and accountability being introduced in our financial, public financial system, which means that we will continue to contract bad, legally finance, who benefited from this, this to $1000000000.00 loans, which was meant to be for what a fishing fleet, except for bribes. very little of that money actually went to mozambique did it yet that, that dead success because all the materials that were supposed to arrive in was a b and to be being used quite example why there are but forces by security

forces they are damaged, the not working does surveillance systems are not, are not working. so ah, and according to an audit that have been done on materials provided was a big state. it seems that it was part of the scam not to provide appropriate equipment to mozambique. so most of beak was deceptive on, on net, on different grounds, not only did not receive the proper equipment that have been promised to the country. ah, the prices were as kendall, as of so all but periods and equipments were overpriced. a lot of people benefit from the scam in terms of bribes. when i'm saying a lot of people people outside of the government,

including swiss bank officials that have been bribed by the invest the lead. but is the company and are the people that we as borges said before, we don't know to what extent de benefit from diseases can namely people redeem the for a liberal party, which is the real big party. and the government was a big so we do not know yet to what extent were either beneficiaries and there were other damages that had been committed against them. was a began states given that, but i don't and picking up on something that you were talking about a few minutes ago. what hope than is there of those i'm big recovering any of this, this stolen money, which in many cases already been converted into other assets like property a yes, was a big is big, better active,

to recover those moneys. but as i emphasize before, this is a little portion of that and i o, dad, demos and begin stage with beer should do show the collections in the car to the court of london. they will manage to extract from bad credit suisse, and from that, from breathing best. the company that provides all the materials, some additional money is related to all that discount. so this trial that we are talk about ear is just a small portion of don't all candle. and of course, in london, we have also a situation in which most a big was a big state middle tried to not pay back the credits and the loans they got from the 2 bank simple in the us, cap bush is what, what damage has this done?

to most on beaks, international standing and reputation. a lot. i think it was them, it will never recover at all. did they did to read it is something that will pick it generation quite a bit differently. so by talking about the phenomena damage, which is better high where that done, which i did. but a couple of years ago concluded that app to 29 in 11 b and the did was the economy with them. is it more of them be ad got in front of you? but despite their phenomena, demi ad damage in terms of the game, which as denise, they, it has done already like the government tried to do action and by dining would have done up to sit,

been going to beat it after enough. fred: so all this kind of damage has been creat, did already related to the also if we looked at global, i'm big of democrats, the at 3 done and human rights in a did that has been discovered that the muslim league is folly. and this pulling a lot and the report that at that is the m, i kind of jog that isn't he said look when i go to add to do. but did some meetings and it was done for i am as i rather than the kid didn't do that to me at my when i meet someone what to do about it? i wouldn't talk to the muslim be not that. how is that guys? was that because how was it that it was them be? so this is something that will never, will never cover. maybe in the next 50 denise as the founder and executive director

of an organization that with campaigns for social change in mozambique. i want to ask about what impact this has had on, on ordinary people there when the scandal 1st came in to light the currency half in value against the us dollar. as we said, the i'm f, withdrew it's port or how's that impacted the economy, the financial health of its people? what impact as it had on public spending lot. it has been tremendous immediately after the disclosure of the of the of the loan says he said that donors withdrew from the state budget and that led her mozambique the government to implement austerity measures and cuts were made to the. busy us health, education, water, sanitation sectors and that had that the right impact in how people access

medication. you know, how they access medicine, how they access health services. well we have seen that been health network and a health education network. hell has become stagnant since the discovery of this disclosure. busy this loans and, and, and above all, i think the impact has been in the pocket of the citizens. the economic impact has been tremendous because, and we have seen from the, from the sense to govern, so 17, that investors, i thinking twice before, investing in mozambique. that means it affects the fiscal space of the country for development, for investment, so at, at the most. and we can set their hair there being penalized twice. one, ah, one for, you know, a having, having to leave day that by day with the impact of the legal depths and twice by,

you know, having to pay for their and so they much loan which is being paid every 3 months. and in addition to that, they call me stagnant they call. many economy is not growing means and it has a tremendous impact in the seats and ok for us to to 1000000 people. additional people pushed into to, to poverty and as to lease were saying that loan, the still lease we paid it hasn't gone away. is it going to be forced to continue servicing that debt plus additional costs? i mean, what for the damage is that going to cause to actually get married? it's a betty betty difficult. so now you add that's why i was saying the government to decide that the strategy who also raising

doubts about paying back debt, debt, debt impact. unfortunately, the government is already paying the money's involved in, but am i to devote devote companies so that that tuna fishing company is not working? never worked bunch because they are private investors, mainly investors in united states to borrow in those bonds of fall of the to the fishing company, most of began administrator finance is paying back yet, but tickler lo, what is not being paid up to now is the loan for the company that was providing all the equipment for security purposes and another

company that was involved being that you're ethically assuming the bank notes of all these security security equipment. so yes, these loans are still pending on the most because people on the gulf but of was a big but i hope that will never pay part of that low for her. something like this happen again in most i'm big, is it, is it happening again and what about elsewhere in africa? other enough checks balances and transparency in the system to prevent something like this happening again and puts not did did. is yet to do something might happen again and then be, and sounds good. it may be is happening maybe a couple of years when the government are present, know what's needed. the power will see that said it's more in depth and because that problem it's not been talked with been trial, which is the best trial. and it's not the final decision to put to death,

but also we did that people contracted that they are proud of that one is that through the from that is say, then he keeps saying, i couldn't do that game because i did need to for my country but people, they feel they have done that. right. why do william keep going to power and why and the sort of pattern it contin. i did something a bit to make that happen again. but the question to the point in it, i think it will go to content to content. we see the papers that companies that approach nigeria and the government to try to give them but they have it. so we everything down there from, i mean, to start off by next time as to what questions about what this was, how big lloyd, how, how, okay, bed it could be to have conquered a different country. ok. the,

i'm afraid we must end the discussion. thank you. all for being with us today on inside story. and as always, thank you for watching traffic as you can see the program again, any time by visiting our website at 0 dot com for further discussion. join us on our facebook page. you'll find that at facebook dot com forward slash ha inside story. and you can join the store, the conversation on twitter handle at a j inside story from me every and then the whole team here. and thanks for watching to see you again by the ah,

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